Mizar: "This government is a disgrace, morally repugnant in every way" Why is asking someone who can work too work 'morally repugnant'?
What is 'morally repugnant' is living-off the hard work of others.

Paul (Accrington) was your paranoid schizophrenia caused by smoking too much shit?

Fraziel, you can not lie to me or mislead me. What we have in common is that we both boast about knowing the system inside and out. Where we differ is that I can demonstrate it, as you have failed to show you know more than people on this thread who actually do talk about the details.

Taking the benefits you've listed, where 5 children are a huge net loss to a household that neither Child Benefit or Housing Benefit account for, especially as they are payments which working households can also claim; you're falling back on assuming everyone else is as ignorant as you are. Virtually any family on those benefits would be better off working because they would receive a fairly large proportion of them still on top of a salary.

The point of asking you if you know the benefits and circumstances required is to force you to think. But seeing as you've been very generous with yourself and simply add more children as if you get them from Asda there's a question left open about how interested in honest debate you are.

Be sure to post figures showing the statistical signature for there being lots of very large families claiming ridiculous amounts of money. So far the Mail and Express haven't been able to do anything but scour the nation for the few cases there are. It's why Iain Duncan-Smith has made embarrassing claims about '120,000' such families from a source that specifically asks people not to use the figure the way he has.

There is nothing to support such this picture of Britain but anecdote and tabloid innuendo.

Oh by the way Fraziel, you posted:

"Had one last week from a 19 year old who gets high rate DLA care,medium rate mobility,JSA and housing benefit and CT benefit"

There are three rates for DLA Care, but only two for Mobility, so how is he on the 'medium rate' for that? If he is on the high rate for Care, then he is also not living alone(you need assistance for virtually the entire day to qualify for this rate) and is not actually receiving and therefore not simply receiving HB and CT for himself but for a household of at least two. You can only claim those as a household, not individually.

The benefit fraud hotline gets 600 calls a day, most of them malicious and false, yet fraud investigators only manage to squeeze 0.4% genuine fraud out of DLA. If this guy came into the Jobcentre without his carer yet he claims higher rate DLA, then everyone in there including you needs to be fired. There is nothing wrong with the rules or systems, if what you say is true than this fraud is able to get away with it because you are incompetent.

conservative his a long word for fascist just shows there nasty cruel scum who are only interested in being yanks poodle its all this war on terrer rubbish whats wasted the money what about lazy bent police forces they waste more money than anybody fitting inocent people up

as the law stands at the moment you are entitled to any benefit in full whilst on appeal and they have to pay it.the only problem is that after appeal even if it is won they can then re-asess you within 6 weeks and knock you off again so it is only a matter of time before the bastards win in the end and then you sign on for work for 6 weeks and then back on the sick,a bit of messing about but the only way to survive,cos there aint no jobs about.

l get very angry when use the word genuine disability in the 80 it was the HIV sufferer who was judged. What place of work will give the flexible working patterns a person my need Most places are there to make money, When you are well then great what about relapse?? health and safety l take a load of drugs all of witch carry warns about keeping awake most people still have a very negative outlook on mental illness just go out and ask the people on the street. This county is rich very rich we have money to support people who need it

We continue to be staggered by the lack of compassion & understanding about disability and chronic illnesses by this government.

We are collecting people's experiences of Atos to write a play that activists can perform. If you'd like to share your story, please email atosstories@gmail.com.

Thank you.

@Fraziel1 I totally resent your comments here quite clearly you are in the wrong job and show no care to the ill and disabled many of which have worked and paid into the government and are entitled to every penny they get.

They did not ask the lord to be disabled but it happens and when it does should expect to be cared for by Government.

In April of 1990 I had an SAH Stroke this was a bleed and as angioplasty was not available then had to have open brain surgery to tie off the bleed this operation caused the stroke and the disabling conditions I now have.

I was in an induced coma for 3 mths and died for 2 minutes during surgery I am told.

After 18 mths I got myself back to work not because I was fit enough to go back but because I felt that was the right thing to do I stayed in work for 17 yrs until 2007 when my disabilities forced redundancy on me.

Now during all this time I never claimed a single penny in benefits despite being entitled to why ? because at the time I thought that was the fair and just thing too do and wrongly thought when I am out of work this great government we have will look after me how wrong was I.

I had saved this Government thousands and felt proud of myself when hearing Cameron say in one of his early speeches "No one should claim benefits unless there is real need" Yes I had a need and never claimed.

Roll on Cameron's rain in power and his speeches tell a different story because is this government looking after me and repaying the deed I did NO.

I still have spasticity issues down my right side as well as Bladder Cancer and had a cardiac arrest in March 2009 clearly not fit to work due to both mental and physical issues but cannot claim any disability benefits because as far as they are concerned I worked until 2007 so am fit to work now.

I am ashamed of the DWP and the Government at the way it treats its most vulnerable citizens.

Today's Scottish Daily Record;

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/2011/10/16/benefit-slash...

I thought the official Inacapacity Benefit headcount was 2.9 million. I favour the use of an mass army of private inspectors secretly checking the validity of sick claimants. Those found to be abusing the system should be removed from all forms of assistance and forced to make some hard choices. I've met about fifteen hard core benefit abusers in the last ten years. They are all the same,the most dispicable characters imaginable. They beleive they are untouchable. There whole lives are based on lies,half truths and a belief that by shouting the loudest their indiscretions will go away. They abuse,cheat,lie and deceive joe public as a matter of course but once you return the favour they seek out a solicitor,citizens advisor or insurance broker within minutes. Car boot sales,buying and selling cars, and insurance claims are all regular forms of income for these people.
Remove these hard liners from the system and then another assessment of the benefit system maybe less sensitive.

They are Nazis, pure and simple.

Thanks for mags, Brendan Caffrey and Mason Dixon's lines.. but what about this dedicated official idea - mentioned by fat man Pickles, Community secretary? ( I think it's in the mail on-line somewhere at the moment)

I understand he's talking about these officials being put to work to help problem families - whatever that means - but one wonders whether their remit might stretch to the needs of others eg with difficulty getting out and about.This could tie in nicely with naughty kids of any age actually..

Together with a decent comprehensive (ie personalised and flexible eg dial a ride) type local transport community these dedicated officials/teams could reach and help all kinds of people -both ways so to speak ie both making jobs and helping people keep such jobs. I shouldn't worry about the jobcenter people. I daresay they'd enjoy getting out and about in the community -visiting people on the same local transport who can't handle the jobcenter office environment, for one reason or another.It could be another string to their bow.

@Tim Jones we could bring back the gas chambers and camps as well?? When l was working l came across dispicable works who stole but that was ok as they worked when you look at benefit fraud and then look at other fraud you will see it is very little, But as @AT4 states the bankers the Mps get token punishment or no punishment at all in fact we reward them.

Fraziel1-genuine questions
1 Given that you claimed to have worked for the DWP for twenty years(even though it has not existed for that long)and you quite clearly resent even legitimate claimants receiving what they do;do you think that is appropriate or professional?
2 As a non-expert I have spotted numerous erors in your assertions;would retraining be appropriate?

im gobsmacked at the amount of things this government is able to get away with, need to ask one question, where is the queen to protect our rights, after all its her country and she can step in anytime she wishes (feel free)
im 27 and have suffered from depression and anxiety for 16 years (yes i was that young) i got no help till i was 22 and that was only after i had my son and a health visitor picked up on it (i did go to drs but was always told i was too young to be depressed) i signed on to IB and was struck off after 18 weeks, the reason, cos i had no trouble sleeping (im on sleeping tablets which make me drowsy all day) i have to take anti depressants, i cant go outside, i cant be in the house on my own, and i have to sleep with the light on, and i get signed fit for work, i appealed, but as i have agrophobia i couldnt go so lost the appeal, yet i know people who claim sick benefits and there is not a thing wrong with them, and evey year they get signed on for one more, these are the people that need to be sussed out so the rest of us have time to heal and can go back to work (which i would love to be able to do) as i worked from being 16

@Leon - well said, I applaud you.

@Fraziel1 - I too take slight offense at your choice of words.
I can categorically state that it is NOT at all easy to claim something such as DLA. I know this for fact because despite needing assisstance to dress, shower, cook, clean (all of the daily things that you have to do); I was declined four times for DLA.

As I've already posted previously here - I cannot walk without aid from both a walking stick and my husband supporting me so I don't fall, collapse or walk into the road; I have had to give up most of my hobbies because they ended up causing me phyiscal pain to the point of me being in tears. I have slowly lost every shred of independance that I had before I became ill.

Whether you work/worked for the DWP or not you have come across as an uncaring, callous person and it is people of that nature that work for the Job Centre, DWP, etc...that make those of us with a genuine disability feel like lesser people.

I appreciate your point of view and I can appreciate that you're possbily very fed up of those that try and get anything they can for as little effort but some of what you have said does not reflect well on the DWP as a company or the (if any) training you had for the job in question.

Thing is nobody outright voted for this flaming government.

We as a nation didn't vote for this kind of thing, nor did we ask for it. And the speed in which all these fascist reforms are coming is incredibly scary. I suspect that they weren't be happy until great swathes of the population are dead or in the gutter, leaving the rich to feed off the remains.

God I am so angry right about now. Somebody got to do something. Surely or are we all so callous now that nobody cares unless it effect them directly?

@Jan - my heart goes out to you, it really does.

I suffer with M.E, severe florid fibromyalgia, depression and social anxiety and I'm now being tested further as my GP is positive that I'm showing signs of early onset arthritis and PCOS.
I used to work full time (and had done since I was 15) and I worked quite literally until I collapsed at work from exhaustion.
It took me nearly 3 years to be diagnosed, I claim Incapacity and DLA turned me down four times; despite needing help showering, dressing, etc...(which they were made fully aware of)
I have been put into the Work Related Activity Group; however I have been told by someone working at the DWP to appeal due to some severe changes in my pain levels and general health (I am now taking morphine 4 times daily as pain relief) because they think that being prescribed morphine shows that I am in too much pain to work at all.

I have sent the appeal and I'm waiting for the reply - quite frankly I'm dreading it.

What makes me angry is that a girl I used to know was claiming Incapacity and DLA (as well as other benefits, I forget which ones) was setting up shop as a self employed beautician; could go out drinking and clubbing a few times a week...yet she coasted through everything and wasn't turned down once.

I don't understand how this all works in the slightest.
Best of luck to anyone going through this process.

I don't choose to be unwell with M.E. The government chooses to make life harder test and challenge me with silly Atos computers and appeals when I have a perfectly good, hard working, well trained NHS GP (who has specialists in her reach and co-ordinates well) who's opinion isn't respected. Save money government respect your G.P.s reports. Fund research get me out of my semi bed-bound state and into the workplace. Help people live with benefits but make their wellness a realistic goal

@ Sarah and E Butler

I only went back to work last week as I was only discharged from a mother and baby psychiatric unit at the end of September. Following that it took me 2 weeks to find a job.

You should both be ashamed to judge someone without actually clarifying the facts.

In addition, Sarah, bipolar is classified as a "genuine" disability whether you agree with that or not. It happens to be the view of the medical profession.

Stinking rich bastard Tory scum especially this "Grayling" dog, I suffer from diabetes, acute disorder and bipolar,And I have applied for DVLA and I have never got it I think I tried about 6 or 7 times.Yet these Torys like to lick the bollock filth of the Bankers, these lazy good for nothing idiots who complete have pushed the whole world on financial ruin yet who gets punished? The Poor and the sick,from backward ape cruel and stupid politicians who work "ever so hard" on their sleeping director salaries given to them by their lobbyist companies (These are going to clean all that type of corruption up ? give me a break it is the dirty Tories we are talking about here)Yet they give these immigrants especially the damn Muslims thier benefits look at this Anjum Choardary He goes on TV programs with his backward ape filth and his lies and I here he gets thousands in benefits. I bet he won't be going through this process as I have to I have to go to an assesment centre thanks to these animals Cameron and this filthy dog Grayling, I hope if your going to go through the same thing you win and APPEAL CAUSE THESE ANIMALS TROUBLE THEY CUT YOUR BENEFITS OF SUE THEM UNDER THE HUMAN RIGHTS ACT.

How refreshing to be able to read uncensored comments on this site. Its good to see a site that will publish without fear or favour.I am going for a tribunal for disability related case. Although my property is being adapted for wheelchair access and single floor living, the Govt thinks I am not disabled. The MRI scans and neurological reports have been sent and if they say I am fit for work I shall request that they operate on my body asap to allow me to be normal once again. My other option is to leave a suicide note with the newsgroups and embarrass these fools. As it is, I am taking ages just to write this, so I would be of no commercial use, let alone work in the industry for which I served an apprenticeship for. As far as I see it, this group of fools in Parliament will never be voted in for many years for all their lying and criminal activities. They may as well disolve and call a general election now. By their activties they have signed their own death knell. The e-petition site has plenty of requests for this.

Privet

No, no and no.
Please read my post again.

51% found unfit for work does not mean that 49% tried to get ESA but were found fit for work and "failed" to get the benefit.

It is not an either/or situation because there is a third category of people who do not even take the test. These people are not fraudsters or trying it on. Usually they simply get better before the medical and return to their jobs.

Only 18% actively tried to get the benefit and failed to get it. How much clearer can I make it?

And no, the article did not give all the facts, I just happen to be better informed.

@Rosie

I never said bipolar wasn't a genuine disability. Just that if you were able to go back to work you should have done. Mental illnesses can be just as disabling as physical ones and require just as much support.

My use of the word "genuine" in inverted commas was not aimed at you and I apologise unreservedly if you took it as such.

It was rather intended as a dig at the press who seem to love this turn of phrase at the moment. I would rather like to know what is NOT a "genuine" disability. And please nobody start telling me about fraudsters. The fraud rate for disability benefits is extremely low, despite what the press would have us believe. The government's own figures put it at around 0.5%. Just how low does it need to be before "genuine" claimants stop being hounded?

@Rosie I had a stroke which is a lot worse than anything you had! Some people are trying to sack me, but will fail. This Conservatine Government is so bad I can hardly believe it!