I am not sure this is a major problem for the Conservatives. It is Miliband who ought to be getting his act together. How many Scottish Labour MPs' who would be lost to Westminster, 40 plus?

The end-result of Scottish independence would be catastrophic for the Labour Party in the rest of what would be left of the UK.

Ah, the old 'Labour will never win England/the remainder of the UK'. Politics in England/'U'K is cyclical, and Labour has usually won the majority of votes in England, the Thatcher/Major years being the only significant blip. In 1997, Blair's mob won an outright majority thanks to English seats alone, if I remember rightly. If Scotland were to leave (still a big 'if'), Labour would still win its share of governments. Don't forget, the Tories aren't exactly doing themselves any favours with voters in England, so they should never take votes, let alone power, for granted.

Rennie's analysis is flawed. The 99% vote for Devolution Max includes the second preference votes of the 51% who voted for independence. That this why it is so high
99% - 51% =48% first votes for Dev Max.

Simple to calculate. 48% is less that 51%. 51% gives a majority.

Well that'll settle the West Lothian Question once and for all.
Scotland was once quite a power pre-James I. I remember reading Quentin Durward's adventures in Europe. They had strong links with France and the Continent. I'm sure the Scots could come up with their own line in Monarchy though.

@Swatantra: You forget that Scotland is already part of the Commonwealth, so would keep the current Queen (Elizabeth I) as a result. And the James you refer to is James VI.

I listened to Salmond's speech in Inverness and he never mentioned second options. Have you just made up that bit about Devo-Max?

The SNP has also never asked to retain British miltary bases in Scotland.

Labour and the Tories aren't leaderless in Scotland because the party leaders are Milliband and Cameron. I think you mean that there is a dearth of regional managers in these parties in Scotland.

"For now, all the momentum is with Salmond and the SNP. This must change. And soon."

That's what's always puzzled me. Why is the Left and the Labour party so desperate to keep the British state and the British Establishment intact? In Scotland they make the DUP and UUP look like amateurs with their hard line British nationalism.

swatantra nandanwar wrote, "I'm sure the Scots could come up with their own line in Monarchy though."

They don't need to. There are plenty of Stewarts knocking about with a claim to the Scottish throne.

Scottish independence? That's a larf!!

Scotland doesn't want independence, it just wants to break up the UK.

A non-UK so-called independent Scotland would still seek membership of the EU - how independent is that? HaHaHaHa!

saltyseadog

Stewart appears to be the 'correct' spelling for the house, though Stuart is in common use.

Yes, George, why must it change?

And, given the chronology of the Union of The Crows vis-a-vis the Act of Union, I'd say that retaining the Queen seems entirely appropriate.

Remember, it was our King who assumed the English Crown - wee Lillibet the First will do for us.

In fairness to George at least he doesn't repeat the line that two thirds of Scotland are against independence - a line trotted out regularly by the Guardian - without I might add referring to any polls!

As much as Westminster commentators try - neither DC or EM is willing to fight the case - as they don't want to look like a loser come the referendum!

@Home Rule for England: If you want 'freedom' from the tyrany of Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, push for English independence. Organise an e-petition, get 100,000 signatories, secure the debate in the House and see what happens. I have the sneaking suspicion that were is no appetite for independence in England. Wonder why that is?

Flashbuck - Don't assume that EU membership would be an automatic choice for an independent Scotland.

Norway and Switzerland both do just fine outside that particular club and prove that smaller countries can do very well trading with Europe without joining the SuperState.

Nice to see some sensible commentary, Geoff. I agree: the interests of the British unionist establishment aren't aligned with those of the English, or the Scots, or Welsh or N. Irish. Let's face it, the UK as it stands is pretty much the Empire of London. Tribute flows in, pocket money flows out.

Helen, what exactly do you resent about the Scots? The idea that we're subsidy junkies has been blown out of the water again and again.

To those referring to scotland as leaving one union to leave for another are high, Salmond has clearly stated that if they were to join the euro would be through a referendum so if we do leave one for the other it will be through a democratic choice and not forceful westminster nonsense, like ur rebels without mandates, non spending at longannet, it is clear westminsters vision is a richer london and a poorer scotland and pretend we are being subsidised to merit their benefits. It has been proven independantly out of scotland that we would be richer, while westminster still claims otherwise, which is it, why should be pay over a 100 billion to leave if we are such a burden it should be welcomed, sorry to say but westminsters lies don't wash based on their performances going back before i was even born. If it's ok for other areas in uk to vote at 16 why not scotland. Another example of control by westminster to get their own way through DICTATORSHIP and LAWS they developed to protect them and not scotland. Or why did they put them in place to start with, Only because they have more backing in westminster due to scotland being a minority in comparison.
Majority backing Union around these sites are mostly hateful zombies brainwashed from the union bosses and believe it to be more credible than statements from around the globe by the most respected economists of the world. Keep telling us we're subsidised and we are too poor to survive, keep telling us we are joining the failing euro, keep telling us countries like ROI are an example to a dead certain failure, keep telling us our oil isn't really ours, those that have an IQ of at least 50 should vote for whats right for us, if it wasn't for us the WORLD would almost be still medieval if our inventors didn't contribute, the world owes scotland a world of help and that they should seek from all corners of the world due to westminster squandering everything scotland has achieved. The public would be happy not to go to pointless wars or build expensive eurofighters or tridents or silly shams like the dome. But if we do we would rather learn from OUR mistakes through a real democracy.
Liberal Democrats if they weren't bum chums should be on our side based on they're sabotaged poll based on mass leaflet distribution and timing on guess what the scottish election. But they can continue to sell they're souls for the last few pennies they can gather for they're retirement funds. I used to like liberal democrats savvy to push n shove when it was needed but will never look at them because that time left ages ago.
Last point why did u silly Lib Dems not push for a vote of no confidence to save future seats. Guess they're politics are about here and now and not the future like the the vision of cuts are doing now.

It seem that there are a lot of English tantrums going on here. You no longer control Scotland!

The SNP would be perfectly content to accept devo-max, as they know that within 10 years the contradictions of the arrangement would become so obviously absurd that another referendum would be called, and won!

Salmond is playing his hand like a master! So far he ha only needed to stand back and watch his unionist opponents make fools of themselves, and show to the world how threadbare their case for the union actually is. They have no killer arguments left - and the SNP obviously have a whole arsenal as yet un-expended! There is something quite heroic, though rather pathetic, about the unionists at the moment. Forlorn, dishevelled, and disorganised, they face certain defeat and humiliation with a certain amount of misplaced dignity!

Flashbuck,
every time you post you advesrtise your plonker credentials. You don't have to worry though on this issue. Scotland will vote for independence in large part to rid themselves of the moronic right wing that dominates UK politics at the moment.

Thought to think about, one thing Westminster has in common with is a Drug lord, if by they're view scotland owes money and uses that to bully they're control is just like lending a junkie money to get them to do they're dirty work later just like a drug dealer. WE NEVER CAUSED THESE FAILURES FROM HUNDREDS OF YEARS WESTMINSTER WANTED THESE THINGS TO HAPPEN. So when independence is declared bygons should be bygons and if the unionists are unhappy they should ask for a handout from westminster since they made it happen, stop blaming the scots for they're choices.

Flashbuck - Do you see the UK as an independent body? It belongs to the EU, the Commonwealth, the UN and NATO. So by that logic, there are next to no independent countries.

You also clearly have no understanding of the term 'self determination' as enshrined in the UN charter. It is for the Scottish people to decide their own affairs, not for anyone else. Would you like it if the Welsh, Scots and Northern Irish were to vote to remove England from the UK? I doubt that very much.

@Dave C - Swatantra could easily be referring to James I of Scotland, hence it's better to give him his Scottish ordinal number if she is in fact meaning James VI.

David - I like the idea of the Celtic countires (include Kerenew) voting to expel England form the UK! So far, the English have behaved as though the UK ids their own playground - and that is a huge part of the problem! They ask us what we (Scotland and Wales) would do for membassies abroad. We already have some, called the British embassies, and if the UK dissolved, what right have the English to assume that they would become English embassies?

This arrogance being displayed at every opportunity by the unionists brings the end of the Union ever closer, and ever more inevitable!

I used to support independence, but now I see it as a bit of a sideshow. Can we really be independent in a global society? There are far greater issues to address. That said, independence may just be the only route by which we can address issues of social mobility, social justice and the environment. It will free us to an extent from the right wing ideology currently incumbent in Westminster.

@Flashbuck, what subsidies are those?the subsidies that show that per head of population London gets more money than Scotland and has a population of twice the size! Or the subsidies that show both Wales and NI get more money per head than the English average but we don't hear the racist anti Scots bigots mouthing off about that do we? Although i am sure you will given the opportunity.

Oh, and in 09/10 Scotland generated 9.4% of UK tax despite having only 8.4% of the population.

As a Scot I am torn over Scottish independence. On the one hand i do not feel i have anything in common with England or the arrogant English and would like to leave you to your tedious cricket,toffs, royals, old boys clubs,elitist snobbery and rampaging around the world interfering in other countries, but on the other hand what is the point of becoming independent and then being beholden to another, even worse master, Brussels.

The idea of being in the EU and allowing mass immigration to continue with huge benefit payments for immigrants and unemployed Brit families, coupled with living in a soft socialist state permanently dominated by the left fills me with utter horror.

I would most likely vote against independence and for full fiscal autonomy although I am not even sure I would like that as it would bring guaranteed tax rises for those in employment as government income dropped through the intended lowering of corporation tax.

What is the point of Scottish independence when Scotland is controlled from Brussels..

grounded kiwi.. You stay where you are. You don't know how lucky you are.

Fraziel1 You really do need to read your own history. Fraziell there's no greater cheerleader for Scottish independence than the English. Let's not forget it was the Scottish dominated Labour party lead by a Scottish prime minister that's put us all in the brown-stuff....

oh, and i think you will find it was the bankers that really f*cked us up. Brown was a clown and that didnt help but he had no choice but to bale them out.The English also voted labour in 2005 in large numbers you know!

All the talks about money spent per capita in scotland is in fact POLITICALLY correct to them like all the other trash they cherry pick they half hearted facts by saying brittish isles instead of the UK to avoid saying the real truth, sooner people realise this the better informed they will be, really think about it why would you trust the media when they are getting tax breaks to make money, of course they will misleadingly make the union look like the best option, my fellow scots take your time google the facts you will find so much more credible knowledge regarding politics and how Salmond really is a leader and patriot of Scotland caring for what is best whether it is popular or not, he risks is reputation frequently by doing the greater good in his choices, westminster passes the buck or lies they're way out.
Vote independence for our children because they are the ones that will get cancer from the nuclear waste that keeps getting dumped in our back yard, breathing in polution cos they cant fund a carbon capture project, but look at the union they will spend outside they're buget money specifically for the UK as a whole just like the Dome a bloody mall for london how does that help the uk more than thousands of jobs. That is dictating leadership not a democracy at westminsters best.