Sir Michael
u embarass yourself. u wrote:
'It isn't about letting Tottenham reach the same level of deprivation as drought hit African nations before we take action, it's about not living in a totally amoral money oriented society'
In other words, your saying that Tottenham is like a drought striken nation, BUT youy want to focus on something else...And my point was that Tottenham ain't darfur clown man!
It is indeed u sir who are incoherent since u understand not even what u write...

"Year of failure"?

No -- Gordon's biggots kicked out Labour because they do not have a credible economic plan. Labour's plan is to cut VAT, borrow £250Bn more than the coalition, piss away the AAA and add to the disaster they left behind for our kids to clean up.

Dont take my word for it, listen to Alistair.

@Luddite - because we didn't have a Labour government, we had a moderate Tory government in Tony Blair and Gordon Brown.

Awake.....are you on the same ward as Luddite?, just asking!, because like him you get more and more incoherent with your rants!!, They become more nonsensical and full of profanities and insults!!, obviously your beloved Tories have let you down!, and you get very emotional when people question the competence of your heroes Flashman and Gideon!, you`ve now realised your idol Gideon is way out of his depth!, must be very confusing for you knowing the Tory party you worship has left you feeling betrayed to the point that you`re in denial about voting for them in the first place?!!, nevermind, keep taking your medication!, get better soon!!.

erm Darling and erm Cable, (before the election), had similar deficit plans that reduced half, not the whole deficit in one parliamentary term.

The plan was some cuts, (but thought out), and improvements in tax collection and the real encouragement of growth.

To spell it out to the right wingers - the only business growth is in the replacement of public services - with fewer workers, poorer conditions and often services outsourced abroad. So the tax take is a lot less.

I'm quite involved in the freelance and small business sector and I've seen many go to the wall and reducing staff and costs and existing on significantly less turnover. Therefore no growth, less tax paid and more people on the scrap heap - therefore more benefits paid out - therefore more borrowing.

And with the Eton Blues David and Osborne telling the world that we're worst than Greece and that if the cuts don't work our borrowing rates will increase - then like Ratner - they're putting the country at serious financial threat.

Haha ratner.

"Finally, don't you understand that you can't argue against big government then argue for big business and corporate statism? Allowing the free markets to basically become the method of government is the same as big government, only we are ruled by boardrooms and chairpersons as opposed to politicians. People who we can not vote out and whos first loyalty is to their shareholders, not the people."

Very well put.

@Awake! - I wasn't saying that Tottenham was like a drought hit African nation, I was trying to explain to you that it is a red herring to compare the poverty of such nations with our own then cite that as a reason poverty doesn't exist here, this was a red herring which you yourself used here.

The point, which I will not put to you as simply as possible, is that just because there is poverty in Africa that does not mean that there is no poverty here, nor does it mean we don't need to act on poverty here.

Now rather than threatening me with a grandmother try to understand me first.

I don't know why you are so angry. (apologies if I've missed something)

Your point about all of us being relatively rich in comparison with the true poor of the World is entirely correct, but you haven't addressed any of the points that Sir Michael has made regarding finite resources not being able to facilitate infinite growth. The World will need to face up to this problem. Peak oil is around the corener however from what I've read, instead of laying down the infastructure for more sustainable energy, or even investing in it properly (fusion energy for example) governments and corporations alike have consistently lied about it. The economic system we have needs to change and it's overdue. We cannot support perpetual growth however the system we have demands it and views it as a disaster. Afterall, "growth" is really just people spending money on garbage they and the planet does not need. Is this really the height of our aspirations? The old-world left-right politics will soon be obsolete. If they're not already.

INDU P......I don`t think you`ll get a lot of sympathy for an alleged cocaine sniffing, hooker using, multi millionaire, incompetent, out of his depth imbecile like Gideon!!, telling the rest of the country he feels our pain, and "We`re all in this together"!!, no matter how much you sycophant over Gideon, no matter how much you spew out it`s all labours fault, your party have been in power for 18 months!!, your beloved Tories are in power, your meaningless £350 billion obsession, along with our kids left to clean up the mess, doesn`t wash anymore!!, your party the Tories are back to their old xenaphobic infighting over europe!!, they`re stalling the UK economy over ideology!, now they`re using the global problem excuse?, funny that considering Labour got slaughtered every time they gave that reason!!, and that was at the height of the recession!, your beloved leader Flashman and hero Gideon are totally out of their depths!, all the problems now are under the tories watch!, that`s a fact!!, Already Gideons targets are way off course!, everything he`s predicted has been wrong!, even the idiotic CEOs who all wrote their pathetic letter during 2010 campaign are sounding disgruntled?, and they`re all rabid tories!, face the truth your heroes Flashman and Gideon have let you down!, and they`re pissing over the rest of us!!.

@ Sir Michael
who are u trying to kid?? re read what u wrote, actually i'll make it easier;
'@Awake! - You really should become a Daily Express writer. Your trite responses, red herrings and falicious arguments would fit in quite well. I particularly love the anecdote about your nan, asking what she would think, her who faced down Hitler. How very relevant that you invoke the name of a man who also thought of the mentally ill and sick as expendable. Who knows? Your nan might find your own comments utterly deplorable.

It isn't about "Bentley showrooms". It is about energy companies making eight times the profit they did three years ago while people freeze to death. It isn't about "envy", it is about a chancellor trying to cut taxes for the super-rich while terminally ill people get letters informing them their benefits are to be cut. It isn't about letting Tottenham reach the same level of deprivation as drought hit African nations before we take action, it's about not living in a totally amoral money oriented society.'
What u said is clear- U talked about it being so bad that people are commiting suicide, u said that TWICE in earlier posts (ure not a denier are u- i've come to recognise the type that deny black on white, even their own words- if u are we can just stop, ure pointless talking to as u have no deductive faculties i now realise)
Now, if you are changing your line to we can't compare ourselves to Africa in terms of expectation, well then 2 things- u brought up Africa IN THE FIRST BLOODY PLACE, by way of comparison, and now you're saying that i should try and understand you (implying maybe i'm not quite sharp enough to follow you're fine reasoning)and that the comparison is a red herring- to be clear, it was your comparison!!!lol, can't make this up- I then cussed u for daring to compare the 2 poverties, then u said it's a red herring and that ACTUALLY you're saying it's unfair to compare the 2 places- YES, there is mileage in that, but dear friend (i mean it maybe u actually care), do u see that your higher expectation of the UK standard is born purely from a higher sense of entitlement?? Thus having accepted this, it must then be accepted that there is a level or time when this enttitlement becomes so abused that the society begins to decay, forgetting what is NECESSARY for life and existence, focusing too MUCH on the material- THAT, friend, is my point- SO MANY here bleeting about Osborne's failure, but not seeing how much BETTER it is here right now- i re paste my FIRST point;
'Year of failure!!!

1.All the comparable economies in europe have MUCH higher unemployment than the UK. In some youth unemployment is touching on 50%!!! nothing from the 'loving left' on that catastrophe- oh no, course not... it would make UK look GOOD, and might be seen as an attack on the cruel institutiom that is the EU (which for some reason one assumes NS loves cos there are NO articles ever attacking Europe- or at least being critical)

2. Growth- it's no worse or better than european average or US or japan. These countries are all competeing to be near as dammit close to 0.5-1.5%% growth, yet such a fanfare is made about these numbers. The simple fact is that all indebted nations are going to get these numbers cos, u guessed it, they won't grow cos people won't invest in them whilst the debt overhang looms- this is not hard but many steadfatly refuse to accept simple business truths, like lenders generally like to get their money back. crisis...

3. Interest rates- these are particularly important in the UK relative to US and Europe, where homne ownership is 60% plus, in Europe much much lower plus they tend to take long term fixed loans there so are insensitive to rate moves. So in the very country that is most sensitive to fluctuations in interst rates, guess what?? rates are super low (a MASSIVE plus for the economy), and something the numpties don't understand- if these rates rise, it's a proper game over for UK, proper- talk about poverty right now is NOTHING compared to the number of families who would lose their homes and ensuing total collapse- that grief must be avoided at all cost, people who try and build a home must be looked after as well as those on welfare- that's only fair.

So the numpties can keep bleating what a disiter evrything is. The man in the street is reminded more and more of the story of the boy who cried woolf '
u follow sir mike? relatively its good here, and absolutely it's better as well- could it be better? yes, but honesty would need to prevail first !!

@Livers - good point, also said by someone on Question Time last night. There was a round of applause when someone complained about Tories having nothing to say apart from Labour bashing.

@Awake! - Actually no you brought the whole third world up first by saying "And finally, i 'd rather see a fraction og uopr GDP go abroad where 50 pence vaccinates a child i.e. saves it's life, rather than your storuies of suicide cos the council dodnt paint the day centre the right colour"

I said that was a red herring and an attempt to divert from the issue of poverty here by trying to redefine it. My use of the words "it isn't about" should have been a clue.

But given the incoherent, rambling nature of your posts, I am guessing you really aren't the sharpest tool in the box.

George Osborne’s a genius. He's managed to do what none of his Tory predecessors managed to do. They believed high unemployment was a price worth paying for low inflation.
Osborne on the other hand has managed to achieve the difficult balancing act of having both high inflation and high unemployment at the same time.
And zero growth. And higher taxes.
Brilliant.

http://tompride.wordpress.com/2011/10/18/osborne%E2%80%99s-inflated-clai...

Luddite, Richard Head? Sorry I am unfamiliar with the name, is a close relative of you?

Are his parents brother and siste, like yours?

@ Marco,

If I need a lecture in empty headed stupidity, I will comeback to you.

@ Sir Michael
tottenham and african nations?? u disrespect the truly poor, I have come to expect that from people who don't know how materially rich they are because they take so much for granted. You're spoilt western kids who don't know how good u got it, focusing instead on jealousies- and these jealousise blind you to so many truths...
e.g. who said i'm a supporter of big business?? u imagined that, see what the hate goggles yield?- big has it's role, but so does the niche stuff that UK is so good at. That is where I'd like to see UK heading, it's highend and high margin, and it's choking when one thinks of the opportunity Blair and Brown had, threw it away, for what?? Money it seems, most sad indeed... CURRENTLY, we have a deficit of engineers in the UK, and I see that as more urgent then your purpoted 'suicidees' caused by depression. To get back to the point- this article is year of failure! My point is that in Spain youth unemployment is 48%. In France interest rates are 2 to 3 times HIGHER for your mortgage. Accross Europe public sector is taking paucuts up to 25%, working lives extended, pensions cut. So perhaps a reality check, some objectivity Sir michael... 8 times the profit the power companies are making u say. I'm surprised at that number (certainly power ha become insanely expensive- one of the things that the rich west has taken for granted for so long...)eight times the profit though?? is that on average, or u using a distorted statistic.Ahh... more lies I see.
Both my Grandmotheres, great women, knew exatcly who the enemy was Sir Micahel, and I can assure you, they would never have been as gentle with you as I am.

@Luddite - Labour were socialist? Labour privatise the underground, part privatise the NHS, privatise air traffic control, deregulate banks, cut benefits, neuter unions and don't increase taxes were socialist?

You don't actually know what socialism is do you Luddite? You've spent so much time with the Daily Express that your actual view on these things has shifted to such an impossibly far-right position that you no longer understand politics at all.

Left wing... right wing... it all works. Either way is good. But they both have to be moderate. Gordon Brown or Ken Clarke are examples of moderate right wing. Tony Ben or Ken Livingstone are examples of moderate left.

For decades now we've had extreme right wing, then right wing, and now extra extreme right wing (with added righteousness) all rulling us so that so many people have forgotten the left. We need it back Luddite, not forever, but just until the damage is fixed and we view poor people as people once more, we have social healthcare that looks after people, and a tax system that means wealth is redistributed fairly without some becoming obscenely rich while others starve.

It isn't left and right anymore, it's about whether or not we are going to be decent people. Choose wisely Luddite, because at the end of the day the kind of person you are is all that matters. Not how much money you have or how many hours you work.

If your diagnosis of what ails the economy is wrong, then your proposed "cure" will be wrong as well. The life-threatening problem was never debt, but the loss of jobs, collapsing private sector demand, and the coalition's unwillingness to support demand through public spending, in the short-term. The price to be paid is more unemployment, a shrinking economy, lower government revenues, and if the coalition's only strategy is to cut even more, then the cycle continues spiraling downward. 2015 can't come soon enough to end this misery.

Year of failure!!!
1.All the comparable economies in europe have MUCH higher unemployment than the UK. In some youth unemployment is touching on 50%!!! nothing from the 'loving left' on that catastrophe- oh no, course not... it would make UK look GOOD, and might be seen as an attack on the cruel institutiom that is the EU (which for some reason one assumes NS loves cos there are NO articles ever attacking Europe- or at least being critical)
2. Growth- it's no worse or better than european average or US or japan. These countries are all competeing to be near as dammit close to 0.5-1.5%% growth, yet such a fanfare is made about these numbers. The simple fact is that all indebted nations are going to get these numbers cos, u guessed it, they won't grow cos people won't invest in them whilst the debt overhang looms- this is not hard but many steadfatly refuse to accept simple business truths, like lenders generally like to get their money back. crisis...
3. Interest rates- these are particularly important in the UK relative to US and Europe, where homne ownership is 60% plus, in Europe much much lower plus they tend to take long term fixed loans there so are insensitive to rate moves. So in the very country that is most sensitive to fluctuations in interst rates, guess what?? rates are super low (a MASSIVE plus for the economy), and something the numpties don't understand- if these rates rise, it's a proper game over for UK, proper- talk about poverty right now is NOTHING compared to the number of families who would lose their homes and ensuing total collapse- that grief must be avoided at all cost, people who try and build a home must be looked after as well as those on welfare- that's only fair.
So the numpties can keep bleating what a disiter evrything is. The man in the street is reminded more and more of the story of the boy who cried woolf each time- and as if to underline how poor and bereft the left has become, we get Hassan, one of the writers here, feeling that he has to defend himseldf as to why Hodges (another writer) is gone. We're assured it was DEFINITELY not like a backstab, not at all like what happened during the brown blair balls years...
@ sir michael- what a foolish thing to say that the last govt wasn't labour and was a mild conservative govt because of their ensuing mess... where were you whilst they were screwing things up? I know i was telling people there was a buble building, i know i argued fervently with friends that we needed to reign in spending, but they are mainly lefties and assured me my view of things were skewed, new paradigm blah blah
So, year of failure? Keep telling that to people who live in the real world and not your political bubble. I genuinely am aghast at where the left is moving to- an intellectual cul-de-sac no man's land that offers not even GUIDANCE on the future.
Until it fundamentally redefines itself, then in a world where EVERYTHING is changing, in which most of our modern institutions are being asked to change, politics and it's actors need to also- and the old guard numpties can go as well- Hassan, thats you pal...

Sheer incompetence and bloody-minded ideological indifference to fact.

He has to go -- and soon.

from the treasury- their words:
"At the half way point in the fiscal year, half of the fall in borrowing forecast for the whole year has been achieved"
He's on target delivering cuts in other words. Unemployment JUST starting to rise despite the eurokoks doing their best to bring down global economy- and Balls? he's blabbing about VAT cuts...
Miliband makes sense when he's not coached- he has some sort of ability but he's not confident enough to tell the old guard to poke it, so is stick in attack counter attack mode. Now is the time for leadership and statesmen, and currently the Tories have at least 5 of those to labours.. half???

Some of you f**kers really do believe money grows on trees. So Labour gets back into power then what? The treasure chest in empty. Not even Labour can spend what we no longer have.. but you can always keep fantasising cake tomorrow...

@ sir Michael
after you have finished tripping over the dead bodies in the street, perhaps u might like to read this:
http://ftalphaville.ft.com/blog/2011/10/21/708561/the-looming-crunch-de-...
Also, please be aware that most people don't care anymore about dead body cos of cut stories, cos their hurting themselves- and if in the private sector they are feelingth hurt much more and for much longer. They don't believe that people are 'dying' from the cuts... And finally, i 'd rather see a fraction og uopr GDP go abroad where 50 pence vaccinates a child i.e. saves it's life, rather than your storuies of suicide cos the council dodnt paint the day centre the right colour

@ Indu- 350Bn and my kids having to clean up the mess does wash with me, in fact it really really pises me off when knowing that this mess was created by tribal clowns I then have to watch members of the same tribe DENY they created the mess, and theyr sycophantic goblin followers cheer from the sidelines- I guess those clowns don't ever pay for a clean up, instead indoctrinating their kids to their full sense of ENTITLEMENT...
@ anon and La potenza
YES!! Exactly- ain't no left or right, just rich and poor, love and hate...
AND the only reason I'll attack one party over another (seemingly) is because the recent encumbent WASTED so much potential it's like a stake in the heart. La potenza, Sir Michael wasn't making a point he was railing how Tottenham was like an african drought nation or some such insulting, childish rubbish. So reading on La potenza, u wrote
'The economic system we have needs to change and it's overdue. We cannot support perpetual growth however the system we have demands it and views it as a disaster. Afterall, "growth" is really just people spending money on garbage they and the planet does not need. Is this really the height of our aspirations? The old-world left-right politics will soon be obsolete'
i thought that was GREAT- very up lifting..
Then the idiot PJ WALL pipes up
'all the problems now are under the tories watch!, that`s a fact!!'; this from someone who shows even in his short rant how little he understands 'economics', time frames, europe...
He's really stuck on the left/right thing- his idea of a revolution is still something he read in a text book, written a while back about capitalism socialism (yawn)... it is beyond his low comprehension that the only revolution left to mankind is a spiritual one in which a full and balenced self awareness is achieved leading to perpetual insight into what and who we are.
As Zeus said, "Man, know thyself". Good imperative.

Just piffle seriously, Germany has just had economic growth downgraded to 1% next year from 1.8%.

I know the left think everything revolves around the State but slowing the growth of spending is not causing low growth that's a product of debt which Japan found to its cost.

You just hope things are bad, you cite unemployment rising it's slightly up on a year ago, this after 100's of thousands of job cuts in the public sector which was inflated during the boom and recession by labour.

I know in your closed minds labour would have come in and the magic money tree would have been turned on again but in reality Darling proposed 14bn of cuts compared to 16bn. Wow!!!!!!! Get real, seriously.