The Staggers

The New Statesman’s rolling politics blog

The riots: a view from across the Channel

French thinkers offer their analyses.

By Jonathan Derbyshire Published 20 August 2011 11:07

When the Parisian banlieues went up in flames in 2005, there was a good deal of smugly self-congratulatory commentary on this side of the Channel. In comparison with the French capital, so the argument went, London was a multicultural utopia in which people of many races lived more or less happily side by side. In Paris, by contrast, the disenfranchised, disaffected children of North and West African immigrants were coralled beyond the city limits in barren, bleak housing projects. Rarely did they come into contact with the population of Paris intra muros.

That's now been shown up for the Panglossian nonsense it always was. As James Meek argued the day after the worst of the rioting in London, the "reality of multicultural London" was a kind of uneasy truce between groups "that are rigidly self-separated by race, language, religion, class, money, education and age". And that was a truce that was broken catastrophically on the night of 8/9 August.

Now it's the turn of the French to look at us. In a special feature, Le Monde asks academics and researchers to try to "explain" the "English riots". Has the moral fabric of English society crumbled? Were the riots a sign that multiculturalism has failed (that was certainly the view of the Front National presidential hopeful Marine Le Pen)? Or were the depredations of "ultra-liberalism" to blame?

For sociologist Fabien Truong, "pre-packaged" political explanations, from both left and right, are worthless. Truong goes on to point out the differences between the riots here, which he says are "individualist and consumerist", and the violence in France in 2005. Romain Garbaye offers a similar analysis:

There's nothing new about looting on the other side of the Channel. It happened in Brixton and elsewhere in 1981. But this time, it seemed to take precedence over the desire to confront the police. . . . After the police racism of the 1980s, then the ethnic segragation and failure of social cohesion that led to the riots of 2001, Britain should now be asking itself what it can do about a frustrated consumerism based on social inequality.

Mikaël Garnier-Lavalley argues that conditions in the major French and English cities are more similar than we might think (or than most French people would like to think). On both sides of the Channel, he says, "generational and geographical inequality grows as the welfare state recedes and ultraliberalism advances". And that's an analysis echoed by the specialist in English history Olivier Esteves. In both countries, deepening inequality threatens to make urban violence of the kind seen earlier this month in London and in Paris in 2005 "both ineluctable and cyclical".

Tags: London Riots

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20 comments

Sat, 2011-08-20 22:54 — Daniele1

Swantantra:
I know a thing or two about French society and what you are saying couldn't be further from the truth.
the French on the whole do not believe in multiculturalism. they believe in integration. They reckon if you want to immigrate to France, you have to be prepared to become French.They insist on everybody speaking French and learning the values of the Republic.
The problems come from resistance to integration or difficulty of integration. Poverty and lack of education is always a problem with immigrants especially 1st generation immigrants and of course they have to endure some racism from the indigenous population like in Britain. But please don't say the French refuse to integrate immigrants.
The difference between the French and the British riots is that the French riots were much more politicised and were about demands to improve their lives and reduce poverty and racism etc..
the British riots do not seem to have had a purpose apart from rabid consumerism and individual greed.
There may have been some underlying political cause but the rioters remained oblivious to them and didn't express any rational message.
Very depressing! Are our rioters so politically illiterate? I'm afraid so.

Sun, 2011-08-21 00:19 — Mr. Divine (not verified)

These French teachers know what they're talking about when they write about France.

Sun, 2011-08-21 00:52 — Dickie1

If I haven't remembered wrongly Plato thought that extremes of wealth and poverty caused disharmony. If I am right it means that for 2400 years we have been effectively treading water.

I know I an not wholly wrong because the Gracci brothers sought to re-distribute wealth in the Roman republic, because soldiers couldn't afford to arm themselves without farms to make them a living, and so there was re-distribution of land.

Well, here's to sitting back and watching it happen again and again.

Sun, 2011-08-21 01:51 — Daniele1

Divine:
For your information, I lived in France for 22 years, speak fluent French and go there regularly.So stop the sarcasm.

Sun, 2011-08-21 02:44 — PhilDuval

'The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.' JK Galbraith

Sun, 2011-08-21 11:11 — M. E. (not verified)

"swatantra nandanwar
20 August 2011 at 11:59
The French could certainly learn a few things from the British about rioting because their treatment of their immigrants is a disgrace, coralling them on the outskirts of Paris and not fully integrating them into French Society; they are setting themselves up for an apocalypse in 10 years time"

I don't think it's as black-white as that. the wealthiest people are the same in the US, the UK and France. That is, white. Obviously there are differences between the US, UK and France, but overall they all have an economic base and a modern society that will lead to an apocalypse if not changed.

And France gets closer and closer now to the US and the UK, more and more of the population imprisoned, with the same forms of overrepresntation in prison, poverty and so on as in the US and the UK.

Blind patriotism may help to overlook what's happening in England, but hey, it's as misguided in England as in France...

Sun, 2011-08-21 14:08 — swatantra

I think you are absolutely right about 'integration'. The French gave Citizenship to all their peoples regardless of colour or religion. Unfortunately the newly arrived communities into France tended to keep to themselves, and didn't want to integrate that much. A similar thing could be said here as well. Maybe because they faced discrimination for jobs or housing or education if they tried to move into the more affluent areas.
But they key to better community relations is more 'intehgration' and understanding, from both the immigrants and the settled communities.

Sun, 2011-08-21 23:47 — Mr. Divine (not verified)

Danielle: I thought you might see it as sarcasm but I wasn't being. I knew you had lived there .. you told me once. I read your comments and can remember what you say so I was aware of experience and knowledge. I just thought I'd tease you!

You can try to tease me if you want!

Sat, 2011-08-20 11:40 — Freeman2

Quite right Flashbuck. Everyone knows the riots happened because it was a Tuesday. Or maybe a Thursday. But certainly nothing to do with the way a capitalist economy functions. My grandmother said the First World War happened because the Kaiser slapped George V's face. I imagine you work on the same level of sophisticated analysis.

Sat, 2011-08-20 12:10 — Dark Heart of Toryland (not verified)

@Flashbuck

Cripes, we can't have Johnny Foreigner telling Old Blighty what to do.

Just out of interest, why do you refer to 'so-called' inequality and racism? Do you really imagine that neither is prevalent in the UK?

Sat, 2011-08-20 12:30 — Hasson (not verified)

Still looking for the causes?? could take a while.
http://bit.ly/mQ5XAJ

Sat, 2011-08-20 12:59 — swatantra

The French could certainly learn a few things from the British about rioting because their treatment of their immigrants is a disgrace, coralling them on the outskirts of Paris and not fully integrating them into French Society; they are setting themselves up for an apocalypse in 10 years time.

Mon, 2011-08-22 13:02 — M. E. (not verified)

I agree, swatantra, and I think the problem really is that France opened up for immigrants to build buildings and so on, but they didn't want the immigrants to integrate and mix into society, they didn't do anything to encourage a mixed society, and when the work was done many of them got unemployed and excluded from society.

Basically it's the same thing everywhere now I think, people living in misery and poverty one place because of an economic system that doesn't want to include everyone, rich people elsewhere, a divided and divisive society. And maybe it will all end with a nuclear catastrophe, already Fukushima is certain to damage the entire planet, it continues to develop...

Sat, 2011-08-20 13:38 — Anon (not verified)

methinks flasbuck is a reincarnation of the sweaty-fingered little trolls who used to hang out on the NS till they realised they were just boring everyone.

Sat, 2011-08-20 15:06 — Paddy Wack (not verified)

All the commentors so far seem to be a bunch of dim witted babies.

Well done chaps...

Sat, 2011-08-20 15:08 — Miss Thepoint (not verified)

Argue...argue...argue...argue...miss the point.

Sat, 2011-08-20 15:37 — Lady J (not verified)

Never mind the riots folks.

Why is the irresponsible British media not reporting;
1. The peaceful Protest in Israel by Israelis
2. The Israel's attacks on Gaza for the last 2 weeks, this time with no provocation and not a word from the West?

Sat, 2011-08-20 20:11 — Greg (not verified)

"generational and geographical inequality grows as the welfare state recedes and ultraliberalism advances". Really? The welfare state perpetuates poverty and inequality, as evidenced by the last 13 years!!

Sat, 2011-08-20 22:31 — Freeman2

Greg writes, 'The welfare state perpetuates poverty and inequality, as evidenced by the last 13 years!!'

So, no poverty and inequality before the welfare state came in , eh Greg? I'm sure I've heard different.