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Boundary changes, Scottish independence and party funding reform could prevent Labour ever winning a
Tags: Boundary Changes George Osborne David Cameron Labour
@Lou But there is naff all a member can do to prevent the union executive deciding to donate to the Labour Party from central funds, i.e. general subs. Except for unions which disaffiliate formally from Labour as did the electricians years ago, Labour and the unions (which fathered the Party) are one and the same Great Movement, no?
Isn't the official name of the Tories, The Conservative and Unionist Party ? so much for their much vaunted patriotism and it disrespects the intelligence of the Scottish electorate to think they are going to fall for the so called benfits of independence, they know better.
If the Tories get this then what Britain will become is a police-Fascist state.Under these conditions an uprising would become far more likely.Needless to say only bullets would stop them and,ultimately,perhaps this has always,in the final analysis been the case with the Tories.Once again I must say that the British Conservative Party is one of the singularly most evil organisations in the modern world.One day it shall have to be dealt with.PERMENANTLY.
Is anyone actually surprised by this? 5yr terms and 50% vote? Cameron will be clinging onto power well into his 60s, at which point he'll still blame the state of the economy on Gordon Brown alone.
The thing is what Cameron and Osborne are trying to do is profoundly undemocratic and they must be stopped.
There must be something that can legally be done to stop them gerrymandering parliament and the boundaries and the House of Lords. This is not correcting an advantage, this is naked gerrymandering, so therefor it should be able to be challenged in the courts.
Liam Fox has today stated that no Royal Navy dhips will be built in Skirt-land come independence. Strangely the SNP has been saying that they will.
10000 jobs gone in Scotland. 10000 more created ib England.
Dear oh dear, Labour giving the regions more say in their politics has certainly come back and bit them hasn't it?Labour thought they were just creating legions more civil servants but now like Oliver Twist they "would like some more" .
Good bye Scotland
As a wise elder Labour statesman, what is you comment, Dr Reid?
Norway had the brains to set up a Sovereign fund financed by their oil revenues.
Thatcher used oil revenues to bankroll her failed economic policies.
Game set and match to me Tulloch Gorum.
I'm not against the independance of scotland... i'm for the independance of the north, the labour stronghold, a socialist republic of northern england!! , we want to be free of tory rule!!
I'm all in favour of southern England being free of the leeches north of Watford. Let them create their own East German-style people's 'democracies' and see how far they get without our subsidies.
~~~~~the Alternative Vote, which would have made the formation of a "progressive alliance" more likely, has been rejected by an overwhelming majority.~~~~~
Pish! 57.8% of the electorate rejected both bent voting systems by abstaining.
The funny side of the referendum vote is that 10,000 jobs will be lost on the Clyde as the Royal Navy builds its ships there.
Still its a price worth paying for independence isnt it?
I bet once the Scotts start to realise thr consequences they ll get cold feet. Shame really as I cant stand all those labour governments forced on us English. Go on Scotland show your gonads under your tarten skirts and vote indeprndence - and let socialism destroy your country
Good luck to them - anything but another Liebore government, 'New', 'Blue' or otherwise !
Labour have only themselves to blame. They have been taking the Scottish electorate for granted for too long. The Scots no longer believe the unionist bullshit which has been propagated for decades. Scotland is NOT subsidised by the rest of the UK. Official WASTEMINSTER documents even show that Scottish taxation sent to the treasury is around £55 billion. Scotland gets back only £32 billion of that in a block grant. Do the sums sherlock. Oh, and someone mentioned Norway as a basket case....Norway is the richest country in Europe. Check the facts and don't believe the propaganda. Scots independence is about making Scotland equal and not subservient to England. The UK is finished. England, Scotland, Wales and Ireland will be better now as independent nations, equal with one another, and good trading partners. Her Majesty's empire has long crumbled, and it is about time the people of the UK realised this, and stood up for their own independence, as looking back at history won't stop the country being bankrupted.
The Tories can gerrymander as much as like, but when the voters have had enough of their sleaze, greed and corruption, they will sling them out, just as they did in 1997.
@ Nicky. Why not reduce the number of MP's ? not mention councillors, not to mention MEP's.
If you suffer from 'cancer' would you not want to 'chop it out' ? !
Well said Lox. Tiger Bay in Cardiff is a model and prototype to multi-racial harmony since the beginning of the twentieth century. Welsh people are quite understanding of races with their different outlooks. Well, what with having to put up with 1500 years worth of anglo-saxons, they have plenty of practice to develop a healthy positive attitude to such.
Happy days! What a wonderful scenario. Labour deserve to be punished for the next 100 years for the 'Votes by Immigration' policy that we all know existed. We will have to deal with the aftermath for years to come. I for one would be happy to move to Scotland temporarily just to vote a big resounding YES. And then to Wales and so on!
"Happy days! What a wonderful scenario. Labour deserve to be punished for the next 100 years for the 'Votes by Immigration' policy that we all know existed. We will have to deal with the aftermath for years to come. I for one would be happy to move to Scotland temporarily just to vote a big resounding YES. And then to Wales and so on!"
I bet you don't have many friends do you?
You are talking aload of rubbish, I would say as usual but on most things other than being gobby about the English you sometimes pass reasonable comment.
I've posted this on another strand but just for you, I'll do it again.
The Scottish Office based and staffed in Edinburgh recently published the report "Scotland and Oil."
The main finding was that "If all North Sea oil revenues had been allocated to Scotland there would have been 9 years out of the last 27 when Scotland's finances would have been in surplus."
Which means my little Welsh Wizard that the other 19 years would have had to have been covered by the English Tax payer!
On a point of information, the taxpayer bailed out RBS Corporate Banking, a separate legal entity, encorporated in London.
So, once we have our share of that back, we'll be on our way, no longer being forced to contribute to all those 'Central' items that seem to drop off the regional P&L accounts.
We'll even give you your share of Trident back for free.
@ Trev - "If the Tories get this then what Britain will become is a police-Fascist state."
Lol, hyperbole much?
Wake up UK citizens
I just love your agruement, like so many Scots you keep spouting this rubbish about Scots funding us, yet when I challenge you all to give reference data we never hear back. We the English have subsidised you financially since 1888 to own countrymens' disadvantage.
Go with our blessing!
Not a healthy situation for democracy. But there is not a little irony in your article: 'the Alternative Vote, which would have made the formation of a "progressive alliance" more likely, has been rejected by an overwhelming majority'.
In other words you are okay with a hegemony so long as it is a left wing one. Equally as dangerous particularly considering Labour's statist authoritarian tendencies.
I am 100% behind the coalition's plans here. It's sad that the plans don't suit labour but, as Mr Eaton points out, that's their problem that they must sort out.
These changes are a good thing for democracy.... even if it does make a Tory majority more likely... boo.
the system unfairly gave labour an advantage for nearly 15 years allowing labour to obtain massive majorities with a popular vote share that didnt represent that. Now since people didnt want AV either the only way to introduce some fairness and cut down the ludicrous number of mps is to have a look at the boundaries.
I know this is a left leaning blog but to be so overtly biased, this isn't journalism but a good piece of propoganda comrade
What's the fucking matter, reality kicking you in the balls, you intellectual clever bastards.
Good, fantastic news, infact. After Labours shambolic immigration policy of importing millions of immigrants, at the expensive of the entire country, in return for thier future votes, they deserve to be out of power forever.
I would die a happy man if Labour go bankrupt and never get in power again, they committed nothing short of treason on this once fine country and the headrunners of that party are lucky not to be in a prison cell, let alone still at large.
Quoting statistics from the Scottish Office (ie the UK Government's propaganda unit in Scotland)and you take them as unbiased and believable?
Do you still believe in Father Christmas?
And how many years in surplus has the UK government been, over the same period? Answer - none. And without Scotland's oil? The casino-capitalist fools paradise of London finance would have had its balloon burst even sooner.
Answers to Deanb's Questions:
"Does anyone know how the UK's debt would be divided up, if Scotland does vote for independence?
How much goes straight onto the books north of the border?
What's the standard practice when parts of countries secede peacefully?
Is it divided up by population? Or by where the debt was issued? Or by where the money was spent?
Bottom line: how much will Scotland owe on Day 1 as an independent country? And what will be the likely interest rates?
International practice is splitting both the assets and the liabilities of the previous state's state-owned 'balance sheet' on a population share basis, regardless of current location. This would understate Scotland's claims but is probably the core of a negotiated settlement. Interesting example of a lopsided mindset is that the debts always come to English minds in these discussions - never the share of the assets.
The clumsy term: 'previous state's state-owned assets" is to clearly distinguish that the assets to be divided proportionately is the total of UK taxpayer owned assets, financial reserves, capital works, physical infrastructure, buildings and constructions of all kinds, military equipment and supplies, bases etc., research facilities, museums and libraries (to the extent that they are owned by government), computer facilities, software systems, databases, intellectual property and knowledge, as well as any other intangibles that have asset value whatsoever and wheresoever located. Not assets of the citizenry, their private organisations or the natural geographical assets.
A bit like any 'divorce agreement', splitting the mix will end up with some items in one or other grouping that the party in question does not really want, but can use to trade for other elements of the mix that the other party may not wish to retain. Along the line "How about you can have our share of Trident and we will have x,y and z in place of a tenth share of that 'asset'"
Barnet and other UK Treasury rules cease as of the agreed date of settlement of claims. An agreement will draw a line under any compensation claims from either of the respective states or sub-groups relative to the other state.
Dealing with pensions for previous UK government employees, etc. will follow other international precedents and be 'grandgathered' and paid out progressively on a proportionately shared basis by joint contributions from both countries. As time takes its toll, this arrangement naturally winds down and ceases. It has been done often before. As with Singapore and Malaysia, the former USSR states, Czecks and Slovaks, Norway and Sweden 1905, or even the dissolution of the austro-Hungarian empire if you want to go back further, for example.
Those employed under new rules, by either future state, will have their pensions funded under that country's rules and paid by their respective state.
It is only difficult and complicated if you wish to see it or make it complicated.
It will be in both countries interests to have a clean, fair and rapid settlement. (scotland is England's largest goods and services export market - the no.i status is reciprocal) Otherwise the international financial system could be unsettled and international organisations of all kinds will press for a satisfactory agreement, toute suite, et tout court.
As for forecasting interest rates - mate, you are stretching it a bit asking that one! "Market rate" is all anyone could answer.
Labour lost the last the election in Scotland principally for reasons that can be corrected next time around. First, Labour allowed the SNP to get away with defining the party as running a negative campaign. It is elementary that a political party never allows itself to be defined by its opponents. Secondly, the SNP wrong footed Labour by successfully characterizing itself then and now as the only party fighting Scotland's corner. (Everybody likes a local champion!) During the campaign and up ‘till now I haven’t heard Labour make much of the fact that they brought devolution in the first place and, would fight for more devolved powers short of independence. Now, since greater local autonomy short of independence is a federation in other parts of the world, I wonder why Labour is shy of going to town with the idea of one (federation). Whether Labour wants to use the word Federation or not, it urgently needs to re-take the initiative in the matter of being seen as fighting Scotland's corner.
Labour needs to ditch this purple book, Blue Labour twaddle and arrogant pseudo academic babblers like Maurice 'i approve of fox hunting' Glasman.
Most newborn's are smarter then Luddite.
Give 'em enough rope...
Little England - aging and crotchety - is just the place for the Little Englander to reside.
The UK political centrifuge will almost certainly send Wales flying off into the Celtic fringe. If independence is good enough for other parts of the British body politic it is way good enough for the North of England. Think of losing Blackpool! It's delovely.
Prince of England! No, it does sound imposing. And the Kingdom of England - shades of legendary King Arfur.
Better keep the birthrate up or Englishness will soon be watered down by Eastern European people flows. Yes, we know those Poles love their nation. And one of them has even held the Papacy. Now they're a bulwark of NATO. C*****! Steady the Buffs!
Why worry about Cornish nationalism? Ignore - ' What's good enough for those English baskets is good enough for us.' Peter Dawson will have 'em marching to some song or other.
And think of Human Rights! Gets better and better. Trades unions! Can't have 'em! What better rallying cry?
Hung, Drawn and Quartered
@Peter, Richard, Matthew Fox: what exactly is your problem with the prospect of Scottish independence? You seem to think we should be grateful for all you've done for us. Well thanks a bunch. Now why don't you get your politicians to grow a pair and stand up for an independent England.
Don't spout that crap about London subsiding the rest of the UK. On the contrary, the rest of the UK now pays tribute to London.
Matthew, your comment about Iceland is particularly mindless. Iceland's ability to control it's own finances by defaulting is one of the strongest arguments for independence. Have you ever visited Scotland? Or do you take your opinions on my country directly from the Mail and Telegraph?
Martin RBS is a Scottish Company (No 90312)
Its Registered Office: 36 St Andrew Square, Edinburgh EH2 2YB
The board were Scottish and Braveheart was played at its AGM
I think these facts qualify it as being a Scottish Company!
Hugh Markey Great post! 182 words and absolutely no points made whatsoever. Well done!
Lox, absolutely with you mate.
I fully support an independent Scotland... go for it guys (oh, and maybe you could have a word with Wales and N Ireland?)
if i were george osborne i would absolutely love this article.
was that the writer's intention?
Most people in England didnt vote Tory last time around. I see a forced coalition of social democratic voters in England despite the Tories. People are going to have to wake up and see what these banker loving blinkered xenophobic pillocks are doing to our country. Go the SNP !!
George Eaton (@georgeeaton) is editor of The Staggers blog