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French fighter jets reported to have destroyed four Libyan tanks.
spot on bill frazer,,i and the majority in the uk want to see the back of camerons goverment..if we decided to take up arms in a uprising and rebellion would the col gaddafi and the arab world demand air strikes against camerons goverment if he sent the tanks out on the streets to protect and shore up his goverment..
Luddite: Of course other countries have the right to interfere in other people's civil wars. It is not only their right, it is their duty.
If there are humanitarian needs then needs must. Sod off all your petty nationalists.
@Nick:Someone has to stop the twathead from killing lots of people. Cameron might as well make use of the weapons seeing as they are there. He will in effect be saving lives. Imagine if he didn't play soldiers and what would Gaddafi do? .. 'no mercy'. Be realistic. it has to be someone.
Why do people think that nation states are special? Who made all those stupid boundaries in the first place?
Gaddafi has has gone and transitional power is handed over to the rebel leader who is...erm, The heavily armed members of the tribal groupings that make up both the rebels and tormer Gaddafi supporters now disarm themselves, sit around the table and decide who should have control of the only asset,OIL...then we wake up and remeber the old Arab saying.."My enemies enemy Is my friend"..good luck with that one Dave.
Mr Divine these 'stupid boundaries' often change. Libya was a former Roman colony is mostly desert it's being invaded by Vandals, Byzantines, Arabs, Turks and more recently Italians before gaining independence in 1951. Libya is a fundamentally tribal and clan based society. Often it's better to have a victor and vanquished, then a long and protracted civil war. To many liberal-left types think the Arab wants what we have, thats simply not true.
"What is absolutely clear is that Gaddafi has broken his word"... SNAP ... so had BLiar and Camoron...
Note:Cameron will be noticing just how easy it is to get blood on your hands that will not wash off ever... !
Lets not forget Libya had signed a bilateral comprehensive claims settlement agreement to compensate claimants countries who allege injury or death at the hands of Libyan sponsored terrorism including the Lockerbie bombing, the LaBelle disco bombing, and the UTA 772 bombing. Many would say Libya was heading in the right direction. Did anyone notice how quick the bombs rained down when the Libyan foreign minister threatened to hand oil contracts to the Chinese and Indian oil companies.
@PromPR: Thank you for your answer.
You are prepared to let Gaddafi continue into Benghazi. His son said, "There will be rivers of blood and the rebels will be taken down into their closets and killed."
There are mercenaries in Gaddafi's force who will be looting and raping women and children. There are 700,000 people at a high risk but you say, 'UN intervention is not the answer' because the UN is not acting in the same way in Israel. Thus it would be hypocritical to support this action.
Does it matter if you are hypocritical? It doesn't matter to the people of Benghazi. To me it doesn't matter what the UN has done elsewhere or what it needs to do elsewhere. What matters is that it needs to save the lives of these people currently at risk.
Like I said before it is important to dismiss everything else and consider the situation in front of you. Maybe you can't do that, but that's a deficiency of your part.
For the moment, will have to withhold Dr Fox's field-marshal's baton. Adolph made that mistake with Von Paulus.
Logistics and needless fuel consumption - is there an explanation? Remember VAT and fuel taxes.
A handful of Tornadoes fly from somewhere in Norfolk(UK) to Libya on a round-trip of 3000 miles. Early-warning Boeings with a radius far in excess of the foregoing over-fly Libya from Cyprus. We shouldn't forget the tanker aircraft needed to re-fuel the Tornadoes over the Med.
What with fuel the price it is, not to mention the VAT and fuel charge, who in the Almighty's name was responsible for getting things the wrong-way round?
If Cameron wants to be seen to be intervening against Gaddafi, why doesn't he start with diplomatic words of support for the US, instead of flying missions? They will undoubtedly throw together some ill-begotten UN resolution to nominally legalise the action under international law, and Cameron can spend the money he's saved on preventing the destruction of social welfare here at home.
dont forget, according to the latest polls,david cameron did not seek approval from the british public to attack libya,the very same mps who voted to abolish the death penalty in the uk have just asked for the death penalty to be imposed on the col gaddafi who is the legitimate leader of the sovereign goverment of libya,,,these peoople are crazy warmongering fools,,this is a illegal war that must be stopped now,,
@ Gideon Polya
Quote whatever statistics you like. The people are trying to speak. They can have bread or they can have freedom. They are choosing freedom in the hope that bread will come.
The Democratic countries must support the choice of free will and then support the instigation of a stable economic mechanism.
I woner if the MOD has totted up the cost of tornados at £300 000,and those round trips of the bombers there and back to Norfolk, and the dead Libyan civilians army personel and destruction to the infrastructure, etc. I know the tax payers will be particularly attentive and speculating how many schools built and potholes could have been filled.
Its a civil war and up to the Libyans to sort out without any intervention from us. Talk of 'genocide' was just 'talk'.
Those in favour of intervention offer the encouragement of democracy, linked intellectually to the heritage of Burke and Palmerston. I rather suspect that pro-interventionalists will be more tempted by the chance of securing a foothold for the opening of new markets, the furtherance of private interests, and the attendant banking opportunity. The path must be carefully trod however, as Saif Gaddafi moves in circles with Nat Rothschild, and has investment interest that will surely complicate the decision-making process of his former Bullingdon Club contemporary George Osborne. There are two distinct issues here. One is the moral question of humanitarian intervention. The other is the moral stench of corruption and hypocrisy.
NATO’s war on Libya is illegal: the UN Charter, Article 2, Section 7, says, “Nothing contained in the present Charter shall authorize the United Nations to intervene in matters which are essentially within the domestic jurisdiction of any state …” Intervention in civil war is not allowed under the Charter.
The UN Security Council is allowed to intervene only if there is ‘a threat to international peace and security’. The Libyan government has not attacked another nation, so it poses no such threat. Russia, China, India and the 53 countries of the African Union are calling for an immediate ceasefire and oppose any military intervention.
Whether or not Colonel Gaddafi remains as the leader of the Libyan people is for the people of Libya to decide, not a few thousand mercenaries recruited from abroad to serve the USA’s long-term aim of controlling ‘Iraq, and then Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and, finishing off, Iran’, in the words of US General Wesley Clark.
This is Britain’s 46th post-1945 military intervention in the Middle East. The British ruling class is still, as ever, deeply involved throughout the region. It backs client autocracies in Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Oman, Yemen, Jordan and Qatar, which provide Britain and the USA with bases for their wars. Gaddafi’s crime was that he refused to assist US military operations in Africa and the Middle East.
The conflict in Libya began, not as a protest movement as in Tunisia and Egypt, but as an armed rising. The Libyan government’s opponents are not simply protestors or civilians; they are combatants. The USA, the EU and NATO at first spoke only of imposing a no-fly zone. Then, after getting support on that understanding, they at once attacked Libyan forces and civilian targets. In the world of commerce this is called ‘bait and switch’.
George Eaton (@georgeeaton) is editor of The Staggers blog