The sooner the world realises that Islam was founded by Satan and for the Satans, the safer the world will be

A food for thoughts during Ramadan:

Q 49:12 "Spy not behind the backs of others, would any of you like to eat the flesh of his dead brother?"

Bukhari V1B4N156 - The Prophet said, "Whenever anyone makes water he should not hold his penis or clean his private parts with his right hand. While drinking, one should not breathe in the utensil."

Bukhari V1B4163 "The Prophet said, "whoever cleans his private parts with stones should do it with odd numbers of stones.."

Bukhari V9B87N115 "If you spit on the left side of your bed, the bad dream will not harm you."

Tabari 1:204 I asked the Prophet, "where was Allah before His creation?" Mohammad replied "He was in a cloud with no air underneath or above it."

THIS SHOULD PUT THE CAT AMONGST THE PIGEONS.

Legitimate Questions for the President

by Governor Sarah Palin

Mr. President, should they or should they not build a mosque steps away from where radical Islamists killed 3000 people?

Please tell us your position.

We all know that they have the right to do it, but should they?

And, no, this is not above your pay grade. If those who wish to build this Ground Zero mosque are sincerely interested in encouraging positive "cross-cultural engagement" and dialogue to show a moderate and tolerant face of Islam, then why haven't they recognized that the decision to build a mosque at this particular location is doing just the opposite?

Mr. President, why aren't you encouraging the mosque developers to accept Governor Paterson's generous offer of assistance in finding a new location for the mosque on state land if they move it away from Ground Zero?

Why haven't they jumped at this offer? Why are they apparently so set on building a mosque steps from what you have described, in agreement with me, as "hallowed ground"?
I believe these are legitimate questions to ask.
- Sarah Palin

At a White House dinner celebrating Ramadan on Friday, Mr Obama vigorously defended the developers' right to put the mosque there "in accordance with local laws and ordinances".

Muslims "have the same right to practice their religion as anyone else in this country", the president said.

But on Saturday Mr Obama clarified his comments, saying: "I was not commenting, and I will not comment on, the wisdom of making a decision to put a mosque there."

TOLD YOU SO ,HE IS HAVING HIS CAKE AND EATING IT TOO,TRICKY FELLOW.

Very laudable Barack, but not the most appropriate site. It is a question of sensitivity and will bring back unpleasant memories. In the end, everyone loses out. The proposers of this scheme should pull out now and save later embarassment.

A mosque? I take it then there will a church, a chapel, a synagogue and a humanist centre on the same site?

I think it is a tad insensitive to place an islamic centre near the old WTC given 9/11 was carried in the name of Islam, albeit by a bunch of extremist nutjobs.

I mean New York is a big place. Can't they have it in midtown and uptown Manhattan?

Well if there is a mosque only a couple of blocks away from this proposed mosque/centre why build it?

@Ricardo. Yeah there are plenty of churches in NY. There is also St Patrick's in Midtown and St John the Divine in the North.

However i'm pretty sure the Church of England and the Roman Catholic Church are not the same organisation or have the same flock.

Obama only spoke up after the city planners' verdict to allow the mosque to be built. In actual fact, he played little or no role in protecting freedom of religion.

He did, however, give a speech to cash in on some of the laudation that only the New York City Council deserves right now.

This is similar to his speech in Cairo. At first glance, he appears a friendly to Muslims. But on closer inspection, it's only talk.

Sorry, EdWelthorpe, but de Sade isn't exactly an example of atheism at its best. Commendable icons otherwise.

Sarah Palin and Newt Gingrich are against it so it must be the right thing to do.

Politics is easy ;)

@ Tim

Plenty, and plenty have died fighting the 'War On Terror' in Afghanistan and Iraq but it doesn't seem to make a difference to the wingnut brigade.

Perhaps they would like to go further than just undermining the US constitution and put all the Muslims in a special segregated area where they could live and work without upsetting anyone.

Has this ever been tried before? How'd it turn out?

I trust then that, in the spirit of mutual tolerance, the New Statesman will welcome the planned 24hr Islamic gay bar next door to the mosque?

http://dailygut.com/

For what its worth I have no problem with gay bars anywhere if the planning authorities apply the same rules as to anyone else

This doesn't sound right, An American president being tolerant of a faith other than Christianity? The public are not going to like this one bit, we all know how the Americans love to be intolerant.

Paradoxicaly most people are intolerant of intolerance.

@Dave C 10:58...
'a lingerie and porn video shop about two blocks south of Ground Zero ... Those establishments have existed in close proximity to Ground Zero lo these many years'

DOH! 'many year' that is the point.
And what is wrong with lingerie? as fpr porn that is a constitutional right under freedom of expression just as the build in of a mosque is.

You seem to support one but not the other.

The contentious issue is that 9-11 was not carried out in the name of anti-capitalism, class war or post-colonialism, if it was this debate might fall down a easier lioberal-conservative divide - it was Jihadi, part of a religious struggle that we have to decide is either progressive or regressive.

Surely tolerance is a red herring. For all our talk of tolerance and intolerance we, all of us, decide what is good and bad, and right and wrong, every minute of every day. When you refuse to stack things in order of preference, and rule out the toxic, you don't have multiculture, you have contraculture. You are refusing to bind into anything, give anything meaning.

@yoctobarryc Well said.

pic,
http://hadhwanaagmedia.info/attached/u_6792d_2010-1-4-15-7-37f_s1.jpg

EhtchTee .
I am no unthinking supporter of Zionism but it must be said that the agenda of Zionism is regional that is to support and protect Israel a piece of territory the size of southern England.

The agenda,ambition and intent of Islamists is global,they which to establish the rule of sharia globally without compromise.
No informed person will dispute this.
As Koran is understood by Muslims to be the final,complete and perfect revelation of Allah it is somewhat impervious to change or for that matter compromise.

see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cairo_Declaration_on_Human_Rights_in_Islam

The Cairo Declaration of Human Rights in Islam is clearly an attempt to limit the rights enshrined in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the International Covenants.
It can in no sense be seen as complementary to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

1. GODDAMIT WHERE IS FELIX ?

2. @ Max : If Islam is facist, anti-woman and homophobic, then so it Judaism and Christianity. No religion beleives in homosexuality (in fact, many athiests i know also dont agree with it), facism is a broad spectrum, and you'll find that the other religions are just as patriarchal in female affairs, just as we were back in the 70's.

Anyway lets face it. The republicans, especially the tea party, would most likely be in favour of apartheid between christian americans and muslims/immigrants/homosexuals.

@Hova

1. GODDAMIT WHERE IS FELIX?

Perhaps Felix has got a life. You never know.

A brilliant bit of William Shatner, by his ozzie friend, Daisydownunder,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ODQCdKEKp0

re Hova

"I was wondering where Felix was! Undoubtedly he will plague the message board with more conspiracy theories/assumptions that Obama is the leader of the new world order/is secretly muslim/using the mosque to establish his hatred toward America etc."

More irrational babbling from Hova I have never once invoked conspiracy theories they are in fact the usual purview of the Arab states.

IF YOU WANT MY ACTUAL POINT OF VIEW ON THIS ISSUE RATHER THAN YOUR ASININE ASSUMPTIONS HERE IT IS.

Obama states
"I believe that Muslims have the same right to practice their religion as anyone else in this country. ..........That includes the right to build a place of worship and a community center on private property in lower Manhattan in accordance with local laws and ordinances"

He chose to make this comment on the first Friday of Ramadan at a dinner in the White House State Dining Room celebrating the Muslim month of fasting.

The White House had not previously made any statements concerning the proposed mosque near 911's ground Zero.

Through out his speech he carefully avoids the phrase 'Ground Zero' but prefers instead to use the terms 'on that September morning' and 'in lower Manhattan'.

He states that this is hallowed ground and sympathizes with the victims and states that their feelings should be acknowledged.

He then proceeds to set them aside.

No one is disputing the " right to build the mosque" at least I am not. What is in dispute is whether it is sensitive to build the mosque,in effect the real issue.

This,the main point Obama carefully avoids.

He NEVER STATES that the proposed Mosque SHOULD build on this site or has to be built on this site.
He in fact simply states the constitutional position.
This makes it appear that he is supporting this mosque but he does not in fact say that.
He never once states this mosque should be built.
WHY?
If Imam Rauf or anyone connected with this mosque is shown to have terrorist links in the past,present or in the future.Obama can then state that he never supported this particular mosque.Just freedom of religion.
He has Teflon coated himself with regards to any future criticism.

In effect he has his cake and eats it too.

Obama states "on private property in lower Manhattan in accordance with local laws and ordinances"

In fact half of the proposed site is owned by a public utility company.The developers of the controversial mosque proposal own only half the site.
One of the two buildings on Park Place is owned by Con Edison.

Soho Properties the developers for Cordoba House Mosque told officials and the public that it owns the entire parcel,this is in fact not true.

Seems as if the President didn't know this!

Any potential sale by Con Ed faces a review by the state Public Service Commission.

Just as thought experiment let us consider building a Serbian Orthodox Church 200 meters from the site of the Srebrenica massacre,with the stated purpose of reconciliation and community outreach.The Serbs would of course be exercising their freedom of religion and remember not all Christian Serbs were War criminals.
I wonder how the Muslim community would feel about that?

I SUM UP. MUSLIMS,DEMOCRATS AND MANY THINKING PEOPLE ON THE LEFT
APPOSE THIS PARTICULAR MOSQUE ON THIS PARTICULAR SITE ON THE GROUNDS OF SENSITIVITY,NOT AS A DENIAL OF RELIGIOUS FREEDOM.
TO DISMISS AND IGNORE THE PERFECTLY VALID FEELINGS OF THE VICTIMS OF 911 IS IN MY OPINION AN ACT OF HATE OR AT LEAST MORAL BLINDNESS.
AS I HAVE PREVIOUSLY STATED THIS MOSQUE IS AN ACT OF FITNA.

THE CORDOBA FOUNDATION COULD CHOOSE NOT TO BUILD THIS MOSQUE,BUT INSTEAD OFFER 100 MILLION DOLLARS THEY HAVE RAISED TO AID THEIR FELLOW MUSLIMS IN PAKISTAN.
EFFECT REDUCED SUFFERING...
RESULT HAPPINESS!

BRILLIANT..................

What do you mean by "Appose", Felix ?