The Staggers

The New Statesman’s rolling politics blog

BNP suffers crushing defeat at the ballot box

Far-right councillors are wiped out in Barking and Dagenham; further losses nationally.

By Daniel Trilling Published 07 May 2010 18:17

Results from the local elections are starting to come in, and it looks like the British National Party has suffered catastrophic losses, compounding the failure of its leader, Nick Griffin, to win a seat in Westminster.

In Barking and Dagenham, where the BNP was previously the second-largest party, all 12 of its councillors have lost their seats. That includes the former party group leader Bob Bailey, who was filmed fighting in the street two days ago, and Richard Barnbrook, who was suspended from the council last year for making false claims about murders in the borough.

It is a crushing defeat for the far-right party, which many feared would seize full control of the council on 6 May. However, a concerted effort by anti-fascist campaigners ensured a high turnout and voters overwhelmingly backed Labour candidates on the day.

Elsewhere in the country, the prominent BNP councillor Chris Beverley lost his seat on Leeds City Council. The party has also lost councillors in Stoke-on-Trent, which Griffin once described as the BNP's "jewel in the crown".

The defeat is likely to intensify the internal conflicts that have beset the party in recent months. Far-right activists, commenting on the white power Stormfront internet forum, have already criticised Griffin's election strategy and called for him to go.

In a message to supporters, Griffin urged his party not to lose heart after a "bruising" election campaign and stressed that the coming months would provide an opportunity for "a massive overhaul of our political machinery". Perhaps in order to head off criticism of his leadership, he offered this advice:

If someone tells you a piece of "shocking" internal gossip which clearly is aimed at undermining the people now working to propel the party forward, then you need to treat such lies with the contempt they deserve.

Nick Lowles, who ran the anti-fascist Hope not Hate campaign, said:

We mobilised in a way our country had never seen before. In fact, in just the past few weeks, almost a thousand volunteers have joined us in Barking and Dagenham to deliver over 350,000 pieces of literature, and nearly 300 volunteers came to Stoke-on-Trent to distribute leaflets and knock on doors to turn out the anti-BNP vote.

Last year's BNP victory was not in our name -- but last night's BNP defeat certainly was. We made the world a better place.

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Tags: Election 2010 BNP

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90 comments

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Thu, 2010-05-13 19:07 — Bill Gibbons (not verified)

Hello Jack,

What's all this about the BNP? Who cares? I certainly don't. So why keep on about them? I have never voted for them.

This is NOT about the BNP Jack,. This is about mass immigration, a question that my critis here, including Tellit, do not want to discuss.

"The UK does not need racist like you!"

And it diesn't need predictable, kneejerk socialist f***twats like you either, Jack.

Let's get down to the issues here. Do you support the following? A simple "yes" or "no" answer will suffice.

1. 300,000 immigrants pouring into the UK every year.

2. Oppressive laws that have effectively shut down any free discussion of the issues.

3. Growing influence of militant Islamists who openly threaten the UK with Jihad, will living in England and collecting government benefits?

4. More Sharia Law courts.

5. Giving amnesty to the 500,000 bogus refugeee claimants living in London?

6. An endless stream of new bans, fines, restrictions, endemic surveillance to rival that of a dictatorship,massive increase in state power, the wanton destruction of our legal system and historic rights and liberties.

7. Continued enslavement to the EU

8. More British soldiers killed in Afghanistan and Iraq, fighting two illegal wars.

Answers on a postcard please. (But and posting here be fine).

New Labour was an authoritarian monster eating into the lives, of every Briton, despising and distrusting us at every turn.

Well, THANK GOD that Labour's rule is nowe at an end. Perhaps the Lib-Dem/Tory pact will be better, but I'm not holding my breath.

Peace.

Thu, 2010-05-13 20:49 — David (not verified)

Jack- And how is it OK for you to move to another country in search of a better life, but not OK for others. You basically a hypocrite.

Well that's true. Its hypocritical to worry about third world immigration and to colonise Canada. The same as its hypocritcal for Mexico to demand free entry to the US for its citizens why denying the same itself to central americans. The same as the hypocracy of Israilis and arabs who complain of each others racism without worrying about there own. Its perfectly normal to try and have your cake and eat it. The only difference is that westerners are gullible and fall for it. If it was the other way around it would be a different story.

As for the PC twit above who wanted to say developing world not third world (and was even worried that wasn't PC enough) its just not accurate. Countries like Haiti and Zimbabwe are not developing. They developed as far as they will ever go and now there're going backwards. And that not because of colonialism and racism. Countries like south korea and poland, which have suffered from war, colonialism and dictatorship as much as any african country are now doing rather better.

Fri, 2010-05-14 15:54 — David (not verified)

Tellit - Ah the R-word. When all other arguments fail accuse someone of being a racist. If anyone has politically incorrect views then that can be equated with racial hatred, bigotry and an inability to treat people as individuals. The accused heretic must then drop his own arguments and start arguing 'I'm not a racist because blah, blah, blah'.

Frankly I don't think that you are in much of a position to be throwing around accusations of racism. Blaming the problems of the third world on european and white colonialism, saying things like "white people tend to wipe out any different people they come across in that situation" and saying that before that they 'daubed excrement on the walls'. Making historically dubius statments like 'the scale of the slave trade to Brazil blows away the north african slave trade' and so on. You're not concerned about being accused of racism however because these statements are anti-white.

"Completely, totally and utterly refute this notion. It’s on the same hypocritical and paradoxical level as people who say ALL south Africans or Australians are racist."

And if I had said that ALL Zimbabweans or Haitians are a certain way you would have a point. But do you also totally and utterly refute the idea that there are different tendencies in different ethnic groups? And, unless you think we are all tabula rasa, why do think such differences are absent? You could be right but what is the evidence?

"if you were remotely sincere about patronising comments" etc

Ok. For the sake of consistency I will say that bill's posts were somewhat rambling and some of the language he used offensive. But that is not the reason why you criticised him. If he had ben rambling and offensive in a PC way you would have said nothing. It was the nature of the criticism against his post I was taking issue with. Again you illustate my point by making an accusation of herasy/racism by guilt by association.

As for being patronising a certain amount is not uncommon in internet arguemnts but you were a little OTT with it in your previous post.

If Political correctness were just another term for politeness and sensitivity I would have no argument with it. But it is not. Political correctness is an ideology and not, in my view, a healthy one.

The idea that national press try to emphasise black crime in this country is frankly absurd. I see no evidence for it, quite the reverse.

As for the phrase you find so amusing the meaning is clear enough. An ethnic minority person who uses PC to justify anti-white sentiment while claiming to be anti-racist.

Sat, 2010-05-08 20:12 — Grand Lunar

mike
07 May 2010 at 21:52
Being a resident of barking all my life and having watched the decline as more newcomers take the jobs and homes of people who have lived ere all their lives,I saw the BNP as my last hope. Now Like most other hard working white families , I'm moving my family out of the borough. You may call me a racist , but until you have your town over run by newcomers and you are made to feel like a second class citizen butt out.

----------------------

Yes, you're a racist, and if you seriously thought the BNP was 'your last hope' you're a cretin too.

Tell you what, Mike, don't just move out of the borough, move out of the country too, we could do with fewer racist morons like you.

Sat, 2010-05-08 20:14 — Grand Lunar

Just passing through
08 May 2010 at 17:04
...On a seat-by-seat basis the BNP are no more popular than they were in 2005.

---------------------

Brilliant analysis, thanks!

Tue, 2010-05-18 22:20 — David (not verified)

Tellit. Since you made the effort to respond at such length I will respond to what is posted. Firstly in associeting your posts with PC and calling it an ideology I am not accusing you of dogmatism. One can conform to a worldview dogmatically or one can be openminded. One can conform strictly to an ideology or not. Also I accept that PC can mean different things to different people, but I would make the point that common usage does not equate PC with politeness or sensitivity. For example foul and abusive language is only considered unPC if it is racist or sexist. Straightforward abusiveness is not enough to get language labeled politically incorrect.

Also to be fair I don't think your accusation of racism was conciously meant as a distraction. The accusation is commonly used to that effect. It is such a widely accepted tactic that those making the accusation will not necessarily think of it as a trick but I think very often that is what in reality it is.

With reguards to making prejudgements. Of course I'm against prejudging entire groups or indeed individuals. I think the distinction you are blurring here is between prejudging and generalising. Pre-judgemnts are by definition predjudiced, generalisation can be predjudiced or not. If they are not predjudiced then generalisation are very useful, in fact vital.

As for the point about Haiti and Zimbabwe what they have in common is that they are both not developing. One might argue as to why this is but the fact remains that the phrase 'developing countries' is not a accurate discription for them.

You mention 2 African nations Mauritius and Botswana. I would point out that Mauritious has a demographic mix very different from any mainland african state. Botswana is a middle income nation with some major social problems. It is only considered a great success in comparison to other sub-saharan nations, never in more general global comparisons. The fact it is mentioned as a good example simply illustrates the depth of africas problems.

This is not to belittle the acheivements of the people of Botswana. People often get defensive about this being pointed out as they think that talking in this way is kicking africa when in is down. But the global market was not devised by africans. Africans never asked to be colonised or industrialised. One should not blame sub-saharan africa for failing to florish in a system not of its making. At the same time to assume that africans are simply europeans with darker skin and that problems can always be solved with some kind of change in social or economic policy I think fails to recognise reality and in many ways is a rather chauvanist way of thinking. And yet it is this way of thinking that lies behing so much failed policy.

Sat, 2010-05-08 20:43 — swatantra

The BNP are finished as a political force, and so are UKIP. But its all down to the eforts of UNITE against Facism and Hope not Hate. The mainstream Parties, Hodge and Cruddas had little to do with the demise of Facism.

Thu, 2010-05-13 22:02 — Bill Gibbons (not verified)

Jack - I never said ONCE - that it wasn't OK for immigrants to move to another country in search of a better life. That's howe nations are built. My concern is with MASS immigration - 300,00 a year - in a country as small as Britain, is lunacy.

So drop the "hypocracy" charge, Jack.

Besides, I moved to a country built by white people, that shares a common colonial developmental history with Britain and France. So it's not like I'm imposing MY religion, culture, dress code or morals on another nation. My culture is already there.

"Its hypocritical to worry about third world immigration and to colonise Canada."

Canada is a well developed, First World nation. Britain and some smaller European states, on the other hand, is being dragged down by its current open-door immigration and refugee policies, which may now change under the new Lib-Dem/Tory government. We'll see.

"The same as its hypocritcal for Mexico to demand free entry to the US for its citizens why denying the same itself to central americans. The same as the hypocracy of Israilis and arabs who complain of each others racism without worrying about there own. Its perfectly normal to try and have your cake and eat it. The only difference is that westerners are gullible and fall for it. If it was the other way around it would be a different story."

No argument there!

"As for the PC twit above who wanted to say developing world not third world (and was even worried that wasn't PC enough) its just not accurate. Countries like Haiti and Zimbabwe are not developing. They developed as far as they will ever go and now there're going backwards. And that not because of colonialism and racism. Countries like south korea and poland, which have suffered from war, colonialism and dictatorship as much as any african country are now doing rather better."

No argument from me there, either!

Peace.

Mon, 2010-05-10 08:56 — Tellit (not verified)

@ Bill Gibbons

Really?

You profess to be a well travelled, enlightened and culturally aware human being (I married a non-white person, look everyone, my kids are mixed race and I even employ people who aren’t the same colour as me. Look, look everyone quick!) yet your incoherent rambling moves from one area to another, constantly rebuffing arguments by contradicting your own previous points throughout.

“But, we still have lots of people coming here who have no respect for our institutions, language, culture and general way of life: They demand that laws change or be introduced to accommodate their dress code, language, culture, etc. Concessions have been made, but a line has been drawm firmly by the Canadian government. Now when newcomers comer to Canada, they will be given an information pack which explains clearly that they will be fully expected to respect the country, its laws, institutions and general way of life.”

The lack of respect and sheer level of ignorance regarding the recent history of the nation you now call “home” in the above statement blows my mind. Do you not think the indigenous people of the entire continent of the Americas feel they have had enough of “barbaric practices” such as genocide, rape and the introduction of myriad diseases unleashed on their entire population and culture? And don’t reel of some old tired lines about “that’s all history now, I didn’t personally murder anyone did i? sins of the father and all that old boy.” Yes it is history, shameful history that should make you cringe every time you write the words “third world” in the same way I cringe when I read them. And as an aside, the PC term, which I know you’ll love, is “developing countries”. I’m sure you’re fine with the history of colonisation that enabled you and the british isles to plunder most of the natural resources, land and other treasure on the planet through the blood and sweat of other cultures, which continues to this day.

“here, have your country back. By the way, we’ll just retain the mining rights, economic levers of influence and control and ensure we’re allowed to cheaply export all the good stuff while leaving you with basket case despots like mugabi and saddam. That’ll learn you.”

Which enabled you to have a fine education no doubt, join the army and learn a trade? Discipline, how to kill people? All great stuff. And I’m sure you love the fact that you got to choose where next on the globe you’re going to call home with the wife and kids. “she’s asian! Just look at her. quick everyone quick before she gets deported and I’m not allowed to make sweeping generalisations about other culture’s anymore!”

But then the situation is reversed, when all those people from around the world that were taught to love and cherish mother England, as part of the commonwealth of nations. When they scrape, struggle and strive to get to the ‘promised land’, the “first world” even (arrogant much?!) all they find is subtle and not so subtle bigotry, and a load of complete douches ranting on about being culturally sidelined in their own country and how “these people” are simultaneously stealing their jobs and milking the dole, failing to assimilate, learn the language blah, blah, blah ad infinitum!

You, sir, are an idiot. And if there was ever any reason the uk’s about to go down the pan I’d refer them to your posts above as an example of the kind of person we, as a nation, are producing.

Thu, 2010-05-13 22:04 — Bill Gibbons (not verified)

Jack - my apologise for mixing up your post with David. Now on to Tellit.

Mon, 2010-05-10 09:23 — Tellit (not verified)

And another thing!

Who decides what “our culture” is?! By that do you mean the predominantly white, english-speaking culture? You must’ve gone out of your mind when you realized large swathes of Canada speak French! Who decides what is and isn’t a reasonable level of assimilation? You?! I can see that now –

“congratulations, you’ve voted on every reality TV show out this year, you’ve taken out a 110% mortgage and house you don’t need and clearly can’t afford and you’re up on charges for a vicious assault outside a pub in the town you moved to, apparently you successfully employed the time honoured “stick and twist” in glassing a young guy out for a drink after having his first child. You are now, officially, a british citizen. But if we catch you speaking loudly in another language, cooking strong smelling food and so much as thinking about walking into an airport then you will be out on your ear my friend. Back to where you came from and where I now live!”

Yes, I’m ranting, but I’m just incensed at your earlier posts. Re-reading them only makes it worse!

Thu, 2010-05-13 22:17 — Bill Gibbons (not verified)

"I could spend all day doing this cos it’s pretty clear what a contrary and confused chap you are scanning through your previous posts."

Please. cut the pyscho-babble crap - or is that an expert opinion?

"It’s almost like you’re simultaneously suffering from narcissistic personality disorder, schizophrenia and written tourette’s (not sure what that’s called) all at once!"

Actually, it's more like, you and I are not going to agree on anything here, so you are just trying to find different ways of insulting me.

"You see everything through your own experience and the time you were here doing this or that, or how it reminds you of this or that nonsense. These are heady subjects you’re trying to discuss here bill and your banal stories about your own experience, while they have obviously shaped and moulded your own warped viewpoint, are not the sum total of the world. Thank goodness!"

Did you think that reply up all by yourself, or did you ask Mummy for help?

p.s. it’s “you’re – not your” and it’s “it’s – not its”.

Is it? Well, I never!

What on earth does pol pot have to do with Africa?!

Absolutely nothing, but you obviously didn't get the gist of my post. Thatcher supported Pol Pot, who was another mass murdering dictator. They are/were not all in Africa you know. But why try and explain anything to someone who has already decided to be my judge, jury and executioner?

"And it’s the US and France that back dictatorships? Look BEHIND the wizard’s curtain bill - at least once in a while anyway. How naïve do you have to be to think the media is controlled by the NUJ?!"

Not ALL media in the UK is controlled or influenced by the NUJ, but most media in the UK has a left-wing bias anyway. Same in Canada, the USA and other Western countries with socialist governments.

"Ha! Murdoch put that puppy to bed a couple of decades ago. Around the same time thatcher and Reagan were demolishing glass-steagall and letting the foxes run the henhouse that is global financial markets. Yes, that “bankers greed” you seem so concerned about. Buffoon…"

More name calling? Very mature.

Question; Just what ethnic background ARE you from, Tellit?

"It is not necessary to understand things in order to argue about them."

Pierre Beaumarchais (1732 - 1799)

Your not about to take your own advice are you?

Peace.

Thu, 2010-05-13 23:01 — Jack (not verified)

@ Bill

You say your not a BNP supporter, but the scare mongering rants could be straight off a far-right or BNP pamphlet or maybe the Daily Mail and other toilet newspapers sensationalistic, really.

1) This mass immigration you're on about is from the form eastern-block countries (Poland, Lativa...etc). Not from Outside the EU.

2) Very vague, what oppressive laws. Well in polite society one should call

I can't be bothered with the others points because I'm pretty sure its been copied and pasted from BNP website/material and I have no time for knuckle-dragging BNP supporters and their ilk.

Mon, 2010-05-10 10:53 — Tom (not verified)

But Billy Gibbons, it's not middle class liberal guilt to point out that Canada white European immigration to Canda/Australai/New Zealand was basically
"lots of people coming here who have no respect for indigenous institutions, language, culture and general way of life: They demanded that laws change or be introduced to accommodate their dress code, language, culture, etc."

You will know of course the BNP disapproval of mixed marraiges (see BNP FAQ's countering the smears)
Miscegenation is according to Nick Griffin "fundamentally a bad thing" and never "morally acceptable"
Although they have tactically withdrawn their Nuremberg Laws Policy for the moment, I guess their real problem with mixed race children is the difficulty in deporting them to their country of origin. Perhaps splitting them in half is a messy solution?

Of course to be logically consistent, the BNp would wish you to return to the UK and leave Canada to the indigenous population. Welcome home.

Fortunately, a quick glance at British History shows that insitituions, language culture and way of life are not fixed. Otherwise we'd still be burning witches, not allwoing women to vote, go to university, executing crimianls for stealing bread, sending children up chinneys and plenty of other barbaric practices

Thu, 2010-05-13 23:20 — David (not verified)

Bill Gibbons - Of course you're going to be called mad, bad and ignorant. You're not paying due respect to political correctness. Therefore you must be an ignorant fool who is hated by everyone. The Daily mash had a good take on people like Jack.

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/word-%27bigot%27-loses-all-me...

Of course this kind of tactic, which one sees constantly in any argument against heretics against PC, illustates very well the cult like nature of political correctness.

Dogma is stated, for example different crime rates in different ethnic groups are caused by externally imposed economic situations. They have nothing to do with deep seated cultural differences. Anyone who suggests otherwise must have holes picked in their arguments and must be insulted for good measure.

One can see the same process at work in the writings of creationist fundamentalists. The dogma itself needs no justification. If one finds a real or apparent flaw in an opponents argument, if one attacks his character that is enough, the Dogma is affirmed. It is a very cult-like tactic and PC believers use it constantly.

I think the reason why they feel they need to use these tactics is that they know that PC is not true. For example people like Tellit would presumably argue that the reason why Somalia is so different socially and economicly from Japan is because of history and racism. That if the external circumstances were different there is no reason why japanese people should not be like somalis or vice versa.

Of course a moments thought will show that the whole idea is nonsense and everyone knows it. Africans know, japanese know it, people like Tillet and Jack (if they're being honest with themselves) know it. But of couse the true believers of PC do not want to be honest with themselves.

Sat, 2010-05-08 22:12 — Bill Gibbons (not verified)

MacTodd - It's all very well for Asians, Orientals, Africans and other non-white races to demand that their own countries remain firmly in the hands of their own people, and without "foreigners" of any kind living there. But if white organizations, BNP or otherwise, do the same they are denounced as racist. Why is that?

If Mike, whom I presume was born and raised in the UK, feels overwhelmed at the sort of mass immigration swamping his own area, where his own language, culture, religious beliefs (if he has any) and his children's future opportunities are looking bleaker as the months go by, why does that make him a racist? Or are only white people in your eyes the only bigots around?

Perhaps the biggest irony of all is when our favourite champagne socialist, Margaret Hodge, called the BNP "vile." I think that Ms Hodge, who has made a political and media whore of herself by courting the immigrant vote, and whose own party the Leninist-Labour Looters, have virtually destroyed the British way of life through their utterly scandalously ruinous policies, are the ones deserving that particular moniker.

Mon, 2010-05-10 13:13 — Leveller on the Liffey

I talked some BNP voters at a social event post-poll and sent one a link late last night to the Hope Not Hate website (http://www.hopenothate.org.uk) exposing the real BNP. She e-mailed me this morning to say how embarrassed she is to have voted BNP and is now glad they didn't get in.

Sat, 2010-05-08 23:35 — Grand Lunar

Bill Gibbons
08 May 2010 at 21:12
MacTodd - It's all very well for Asians, Orientals, Africans and other non-white races to demand that their own countries remain firmly in the hands of their own people, and without "foreigners" of any kind living there. But if white organizations, BNP or otherwise, do the same they are denounced as racist. Why is that?

----------------------

Bill, I really couldn't give a damn what other countries do, we're discussing what happens here in the UK - after all, they chop off people's hands for stealing in Saudi Arabia and hang gays in Iran, do you propose we should do the same here?

And yes, the BNP is a racist organisation - if you don't realise that then you too are a moron, because there is ample proof of its racism which you can find easily on teh internet if you can be bothered.

And if you think a bunch of thuggish racists (many with criminal records for violence, much of it racially motivated) like the BNP are your 'last hope' then you are, at best, deluded, or startlingly stupid, or a racist.

Sat, 2010-05-08 23:45 — Leanne (not verified)

The BNP vote might have doubled, but that's because the party fielded twice as many candidates.

In real terms, they made no advances.

Seeing them wiped on in Barking was very satisfying indeed.

Fri, 2010-05-14 00:13 — David (not verified)

Jack - A reference to the Daily Mail, how original. Has the thought ever crossed your mind that the concerns and worries that the Mail exploits in order to sell newspapers might be legitimate. That people buy the papers because they have these concerns and not the other way around.

I wouldn't be feeling to smart about it. All the newspapers are propaganda sheets. The guardian and the New statesman just attract a different kind of sucker than the daily mail, that's all.

Sun, 2010-05-09 02:05 — Daniele1

Bill Gibbons:
So you think it's OK for YOU to emigrate! You don't think that just maybe the Canadians don't want any more immigrants like you!
Hang on, I bet you don't even see yourself as an immigrant because immigrants are black, right?
All I can say is lucky Canadians, to have such a graceful, charming, tolerant Brit wanting to live in THEIR country!

Sun, 2010-05-09 03:01 — Haligonian (not verified)

In the course of his rants, Bill Gibbons informs us that he has emigrated to Canada. Bloody foreigner, coming in here, taking jobs away from our boys, imposing his alien beliefs on law-abiding Canadians! Put him in a rowboat and send him home, I say!

Sun, 2010-05-09 03:59 — Bill Gibbons (not verified)

MacTodd - First off, I did not say I was a BNP supporter - far from it. My wife is Asian and we have two mixed race children. We moved to Canada to give our kids a decent future, something they won't get in the UK. Secondly, I own my own growing business here where the majority of my 60+ employees are non-white. So don't go judging me based on one post when you know NOTHING about me, "McTodd", or whatever your real name is.

My point in supporting Mike is really quite simple - if you can grasp my point without resorting to name calling? With mass Third World immigration, huge swathes of London now almost completely non-white, out-of-control crime, slavish subjugation to the EU and many other problems I can mention, thanks to 13 years of Labour rule, and your okay with all that?

Do tell, McTodd?

Daniele - I am a Canadian citizen. I work for a living, pay my taxes (£500,000 per year or $775,000.00 per annum). And I will probably pay more this year. I have fully embraced the Canadian way of life, it values, history, cultural and constitutions. I obey the law and, crime of crimes, I am even a Conservative Party voter!

Haligonian (or whatever you real name is) - I see that my comment is a "rant." Well, it would be wouldn't it, if I do not share YOUR sentinents, right? I'm here creating jobs and providing opportunities for my fellow immigrants. You want to send me back in a boat to my country of origin? A bit racist wouldn't you say? But you must a Liberal, preaching tolerance and acceptance to all, but unwilling to show it towards others who do not share your own views.

Well here is the bad news, I am here to stay. You want to send me home - then make me. And while you are at it, round up the hundreds of former UK police officers who are now serving here and send them back too. I know lots of them, and they tell me that they will NEVER return to the UK with it's oppressive "Human rights" laws, and politically correct madness. They are here to stay.

Just like me.

Have a good day everyone.

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Sun, 2010-05-09 04:38 — Haligonian (not verified)

We've been had,folks.'Bill Gibbons'can't be a real person. No one could be that stupid. This just has to be someone taking the piss and he sure had me going there. Well done,mate,but just write that novel and don't waste your talents posting fictitious online comments.

Sun, 2010-05-09 07:13 — Optio - Garbageman (not verified)

mctodd you are a dumb ass red moron but i thank you because i like leftist garbage. LOL. I'm not English and it's a pleasure watching from abroad the slow and irreversible demise of U.K. It's a good thing that BNP has done poorly a the polls. The show must go on. Sink Britannia sink!

Mon, 2010-05-17 13:42 — ACMJ

So McTodd? Are you going to move back to Scotland and encourage the SNP to adapt some of Nick Griffin's policies .Do you think Alex Salmond will welcome BNP policies with open arms(one Nationalist to another)? Or would that be Griffin's BNP fantasy ?

Sun, 2010-05-09 11:50 — BDA (not verified)

'But you must a Liberal, preaching tolerance and acceptance to all, but unwilling to show it towards others who do not share your own views.'

Unfortunately very true - the Hope not Hate facebook page is full of aggression and thuggish language, and I find their brand of ignorance and thought-fascism almost as unpleasant as that of the BNP

Fri, 2010-05-07 19:28 — BliarBlair

I know you were going to mention it, but just in case you forget to mention it, here it is - The BNP's share of the overall GE vote went up!

Sun, 2010-05-09 12:40 — Daniele1

BIll Gibbons:
You are either a fictitious character like some one suggested or you are so mixed up that you can't even see the contradictions of your own situation.
So you have become a Canadian citizen. A right that no doubt you would deny many immigrants in Britain right?Many immigrants would like to do what you have just done, become a citizen,work and pay their taxes and integrate but for many immigrants here it's just impossible because of the hostility they face, by people like you!
You talk about "oppressive Human rights". You mean they haven't got human rights in the Canadian constitution? I doubt it and I bet they will be the same as EU rights because these rights are international and apply to all free and democratic country. I have no idea about what you're talking about. DO you?

Fri, 2010-05-14 01:12 — Tellit (not verified)

You guys crack me up!
If you’re so deeply concerned about the imminent threat of “colonisation” by non-white immigrants then get up off your backsides, stop wasting time churning out ill thought through diatribes on a comment page and do something. Quick! Act now; they’re coming to doom us all! Someone please think of the children!
Seems I stumped you a bit with you own words there bill. So I may as well carry on…
***
Did you think that reply up all by yourself, or did you ask Mummy for help?...
More name calling? Very mature…
And it diesn't need predictable, kneejerk socialist f***twats like you either, Jack…
Another informed opinion? or just your own bias showing again?
***
My wife is Asian and we have two mixed race children…
It's all very well for Asians, Orientals, Africans and other non-white races to demand that their own countries remain firmly in the hands of their own people, and without "foreigners" of any kind living there.
Careful, your prejudice is showing again.
***

Tellit: And you think the words ‘contrary’ and ‘confused’ are “psycho babble”? I’d say they’re pretty straightforward terms.
Anyway, the word contrary has inspired me. I think I’m going to refer to you as “Mary” from now on. Cos she was the queen of scots, after all, she was quite contrary, and that suits you to a tee. Plus she had a garden didn’t she? And I seem to remember you saying something about having a growing business. So yes, mary it is.
Now mary, why are you so desperate to know my ethnic background? Is it because you can’t possibly form an opinion about a person without knowing where they’re from, what sex they are and what they look like? They have a name for people like that you know. In fact, I can think of several. In any case, knowledge is power mary, and I think the less power people like you have the better. You need to be starved of oxygen, and I’m not entirely sure I mean that as a euphemism.

Fri, 2010-05-07 19:50 — why bother (not verified)

next time a politician tells me my vote counts he is gonna get what for...over half a million public votes failed to secure a seat for the BNP but a measly 158,000 votes claimed 8 seats for the DUP....And the public are told to have faith in the selection process...hahaha you must be joking.. its politically rigged to keep 3 parties at the top and all other seats carefully allocated...

Tue, 2010-05-11 20:30 — Bill Gibbons (not verified)

Hello Tellit - having fun? Me too!

Here are my responses.

"Jesus bill! I think you may be the one with a particular axe to grind there mate. Pretty revealing post."

So you CAN read! good for you! I have no axe to grind, but I am, like millions of other Britons, deeply concerned with the destruction of the nation I was born in. Seems you have a problem with that, old lad.

"Most scots I know are down to earth people that have a certain degree of kinship with the downtrodden, the underdogs and those who have to go through the daily struggle."

So I started a business, built it from the ground up to give good people (mainly minorities) employment and a future. Why? Because there were certain jobs I was actually barred from in Canada because I am a white heterosexual male. I kid you not. Even my UK degrees were not acceptable here without further schooling. I meet medical doctors from India, engineers from Russia and IT specialists from China doing things like driving taxi cabs, delivering pizzas and working as telemarketers. We are all in the same boat. Many of us own our own businesses now and help each other out. There is no insularity in business on my part and I certainly have no qualms about doing business with non-white business people (which I do).

You strike me as more of a “I’m alright, pull the ladder up jack” kind of chap. A dick, if you will.

Revealing your own predjudiced views Tellit? Just shows how far you are off the mark on this one.

"Minorities would be fine, I guess. Darkies?! Oh dear me, I really do feel sorry for your kids. They’re gonna be in therapy for years and mark my words, they’ll be embarrassed by you from their teenage years onwards.

My kids love at ethnic jokes. Ever heard of Russell Peters? We actually met him once. He tried mimicking my Scottish accent but couldn't (the only accent he can't do - so he tells me). However, for a laugh I put on my pith helmet, a monacle and talk in a upper class accent "about those darkies you know." Even Russell thought it was pretty funny. Its called tounge in cheek humour - you know, having a laugh? My kids are older than you think. One is in business college and the other is about to join the Canadian Army.

No matter how much you “succeed” (I think our definitions may differ on this front), is it worth it if the kids sell off your assets and put you in a home soon as senility takes over. As opposed to now, where it may be just creeping in.

Judging again? I thought that sort of thing was beneath you. Well, you just don't know my kids do you? So don't presume the ridiculous based on your own biases.

Your grandfather fought against facism? Well then I expect he’s spinning in his grave.

My grandfather didn't want the country filled up with wogs either. er, sorry I meant darkies, er fuzzies, er I mean "minorities" (phew! got it right). He fought for freedon and democracy, not subjugation to runaway socialism and multicultural madness.

"I could take you apart on the retiring to Mauritius comment, but at this point I’m sure anyone else reading your comments can fill in the punchlines for themselves. Just embarrassing!"

Go right ahead Tellit. I already own property there anyway. Mind you, Mauritians are a great crowd, and no political correctness to get in the way when I have a beer with my friends over there and tell an tell an off-colour joke (no pun intended).

"I already answered the bit about differing opinions and bigotry. Look it up bill, you seem to have the time on your hands and I think it might help you when surfing the net for places to chat with like minded folk. Perhaps you could start up a new website with your clear fervor for enterprise – bigot.com – catchy, clear and concise don’t you think?"

Already did old boy, and its seems that bigotry is alive and well throughout the human race - not just with poor old whitey. I have seen tribal emnity in Africa, the caste system in India, Muslims and Hindus duke it out on the streets of Toronto, and native Canadians (Indians) and a group of Pakistani youths throw recial insults at each other. Let's not mention the Toronto 18, a group of young Muslim men who were born and raised in Canada, yet trained for months in a remote camp in rural Ontario to bomb government targets and kill the Prime Minister. Yet, they were born in a country with freedom, liberty and opportunities galore. When asked why they were planning on killing innocent people, their answere was very straightforward. "Because we hate Canada."

Funny, with the Asian gangs (koreans and vietnamese), Pakistani gangs, Tamil gangs, Jamaican gangs, and Muslim Gangs all fighting each other over here with machine guns over turf and drugs, I don't see any white supremists robbing banks, shooting up ethnic neighbourhoods or running an international drugs trade. Its the ethnic's that give Canada the most grief - and that is the plain truth.

Any one of the aforementioned groups would almost certainly qualify for ownership of bigotry.com. Unless white people are to blame for everything?

"Immigration is a debate that has to be had, no doubt. But resorting to irresponsible scare mongering, leaving any facts behind and not addressing the root causes of a situation is not the way to go. So the uk bans all non-eu immigration. What then? Eu immigration banned? What then? People like you that believe in free enterprise, Thatcherism etc really do make me laugh! You want no controls on borders when it comes to flow of capital, resources, goods and services etc. yet when it comes to people you scream from the rooftops “stop the madness”. Slight contradiction there, if you think about it, I mean really think about it."

Do you honstly believe that Britian actually needs 300,000 people a year pouring in? Do you? Scare mongering is not needed. Britain is full, thats it. I would stop ALL immigration, regardless of where they come from black, brown, white or yellow. The country has over 60 million people already, with a target population of 75 million (by the Labour government). The strain is already being heavily felt on housing, employment, social services, the NHS, and public transportation. To keep pouring people into the UK at this rate is absolute madness. I see no contradiction in free trade, whether it is within Europe or globally. But free trade does not equate with mass colonisation of a nation, no matter how you slice it.

"People like you that believe in free enterprise."

And you don't? Hmmm, interesting.

"I’m a realist bill, and not a pick and choose realist, I mean I see things as they are, not how I think they are or would like them to be. That means I can accept that you’re more likely to be robbed and assaulted by a black person if you live in stockwell, but it also means I accept the disparities in access to resources that caused that situation. I can argue how likely you are to be stabbed in Glasgow by a white person, and I have no doubt there’d be a lot of similar reasons behind the crime. So what? I like to take people as I find them on an individual level. Not blame races countries or continents for the breakdown of social structures and morals."

In Glasgow you are more likely to be stabbed by a Muslim gang. London is undergoing ethnic cleansing at a frightning rate, and as for Manchester, well, it's becoming another haven for yet more ethnic gangs. How did all this come about? By mass immigration. How the hell else did they get there? And how many people are actually in the country illegally? 300,000 by one official estimate.

"Post-colonial history aside bill? As I said before, willfully shortsighted. And no, it wouldn’t happen because history shows, white people tend to wipe out any different people they come across in that situation. no sneaking onto trains and boats to get in under the radar and scrape by. Oh no, wholesale and with conviction and don’t stop til we own the place and everything and everyone in it."

African tribes were doing a good job killing each other off before the white man showed up. Indeed, some of the prominent African chiefs were doing a roaring trade in slavery with Arab traders. Who stopped the slave trade? It was white people. Why was the American Civil War fought? Over slavery. Again, it was white men who put a stop to it, in spite of the fact that white were slave owners too.

And a bit about post colonial Africa. Did you know that the president of Gabon recently tried to bequeath his country back to France? He kew that if Gabon became an African province, rather than an independent state, it would be better run and better funded. Needless to say, the Gauls turned him down.

Here's another. In 1992 when I was visiting the former Zaire, there was a rumour going around that the Belgians were coming back to govern the country. Everbody was in an exuberant mood, thankful that the whites were coming back to the Congo. The mood continued as I headed north to Kisangani on a river steamer (a great experience). By the time we docked at the town, the mayor and the local police chief had turned out to welcome the new Belgian administrators. They were bitterly disappointed to find that there were no Belgians on the boat, only me and a couple of American missionaries.

In the UK and Canada, I meet Zimbabwean refugees who lament the end of white rule, such is the tyranny of their "liberator" Robert Mugabe. Tons of South Africans are flooding here, black, white and brown. They all fled because of the horrendous crime rate, a useless police service, an ever-increasing corrupt and incompetent ANC government. Liberation movements do not make good governments. Their record of violence, corruption and sheer cruelty shown towards the people they were supposedly liberating from colonialism is far worse than anything with white man ever did. Africa is the only continent in the world going backwards.

The real tragedy is, I have met countless young Africans, smart and well educated who want to see their nations, indeed the whole continent do much better. Afirca is blessed with incredible natural wealth. Gold, diamonds, copper, timber and agricultural products. The Congo River has enough power to light up half the continent. But for as long as mass murdering dictatorships, tribal wars and corruption continue to rule the wealthiest continet on the planet, Africans will continue to pour en masse into Europe, the UK, Canada, and the USA. You know,. countries than are run by their former white 'oppressors.'

I think I even have a solution for the Africa's woes, but you wouldn't be interested.

"You, personally, didn’t agree to sell weapons? Well I’m shocked bill! Does BAE know about this? You should get on the phone to them quicksmart. Although I’m sure they’d then get on the phone to the politicians you no doubt support and you’d be bitch slapped in a matter of mins! Cui bono, bill? Look at the ashcrofts and yes, the cohens et al. you’re a sucker cos you probably just vote for whoever keeps your taxes low. those who really influence the world don’t see colours or races. They see us and them. And I’m really sorry to tell you this mate, but you’re not in that club. Despite your delusions of grandeur you’re just the same as the rest of us and short of starting a resource major, tobacco company, a Microsoft or a google you, your grandchildren and their children will be in that club as well."

Why should you be shocked? I have seen first hand what sophisticated weapons can do to people, even a country. Arming the Third World was the worst thing that the West could have done. However, the former USSR had no such qualms, giving Congo, Angola and Mozambique tons of tanks, armoured vehicles and planes. Not to mention millions of AK-47 rifles. The Chinese are at it too, eager for friends in Africa, sucking up to Mugabe and Zuma.

By the way, I do not run any kind of business that aids and abetts in the abuse of human beings, or has any part in the sale, production or promotion of tobacco, alcohol, weapons, drugs, or any other destructive products. And neither will any member of my family if I can help it.

As for the super rich that you allude to, they are among the world human beings on the planet. They are no friends of mine and neither would I want to be associated with them.

"As for your “culture” bill. Wife beating’s a national sport in Scotland isn’t it?! Or is that a sweeping generalization? And because you’re a scot with irish parents you didn’t partake in the empire? Again, ignoramus bill! More scots, welsh and irish people set themselves up in the far reaches of the empire than anyone else. Do some reading for god’s sake man. This is your own culture that you seem so proud of. Look up massacres and famine in india during the late 19th century. I could go on and on but I fear it’s wasted on you."

So now you presume that Scots beat their wives? A bit racist don't you think? As for the rest of your presumptoius comment, no I did not take part in any empire building episodes, and the massacres in 19th century India certainly had nothing to do with me or my family. Unless I am guilty by association because I am white? Then again, if peace keeping duties in Cyprus and a stint doing search & rescue in the Rocky Mountains of western Canada were imperialistic endeavours in your opinion, do let me know?

By the way, just what HAVE you done for Britain thus far?

"I said: “Of course white people aren’t to blame for all the world’s ills.” But you then go on as though I said the opposite. Pay attention bill, otherwise you’re liable to come across as more of a fool than you already are. Seemingly impossible but you’ve done it.'

is that another carefully thought out, measured opinion?

“Margaret Hodge, who resounding victory in Barking was not due to her blinding wit and awe inspiring speeches, but due to her whoring herself before the darkies for their votes.” Oh. Dear. Me. This is the reason I won’t be wasting my time with a further response. As I said earlier, bit of a dick bill. Those poor kids…

Hodge is a hypocrite - not to hard for a socialist though, it it? She attends Wimbledon with free tickets provided by the BBC and is a major shareholder in the family steel trading company Stemcor, of which her brother Ralph Oppenheimer is the chairman. The company was valued at £220 million in 2007 and the family worth then was £178 million. One would have thought she could have afforded to pay for her own Wimbledon tickets. Despite her obvious wealth, this champagne socialist still managed to suck up expense claims totalling £223,849 to add to her basic salary of £64,766 giving this millionaire a total of £305,972 in 2008. And she claims to be working on behalf of the poor and disadvantaged in Barking? If she is a typical example of a "socialist" politician, then they are no better than the capitalists they despise, are they? And you voted for them? Kinda makes me wonder who the "dick" really is here. yes, "ppor kids" the one growing up in the UK that is.

By the way tellit - have YOU managed to reproduce yet?

"Yes I work. Well, I should be working right now actually but am wasting time with this. And you can boast about your family all you like. Good for you. But perhaps save it for a time and place where it’s a) remotely relevant and b) where people are likely to give a toss! It doesn’t get up my nose in the least. More power to you I say and if it makes you happy and content, carry on. Although you do seem a tad keen (desperate?) to let everyone else know just how great your life is."

I'm sorry, were you trying to say something here?

"Anyway, after all that, I’ll leave you with a non-PC joke I heard last week that I’m sure you’ll enjoy and it seems to sum up this little episode: “arguing on the internet is like the special Olympics – you may win, but in the end you’re still retarded"

You know Tellit, I spent my last five years in the UK teaching profoundly mentally handicapped adults how to perform basic living skills to help them live more independent lives. If that joke was aimed at me, then you failed. It was profoundly insulting to those who really are handicapped and struggle to get thorugh life.

Nice one.

Fri, 2010-05-07 20:10 — BNP_FOREVER_AND_EVER (not verified)

HAHAHA cant believe it the BNP are a bunch of failures! just checkd there website and its down SORE LOSERS!!! BRILLIANT DAY TODAY THE BNP GOR TRUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUULLLLLLLLLLY OWNNNNNNNNNNNNNEEEEDDDDDDDD!!!!!!!!!!!!
+ check this vid out of Margaret Hodge rippin Nick a new one last night!fantastic ('onwards and upwards' thats the line of prominent BNP bloggers - just cant wait until website gets back up and hear their excuses... bunch of wasters! (ps. you know its true)))

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/election_2010/england/8667345.stm

Fri, 2010-05-07 20:14 — BNP_FOREVER_AND_EVER (not verified)

HEY WHAT HAPPENED? I THOUGHT THIS WAS YOUR CHANCE - JUST READ NASTY NICKS EMAILS AND ITS HILARIOUS THE WAY HE KEEPS GAVE FALSE HOPE LAST NIGHT BUT WAS STILL CAPABLE OF BEGGIN FOR MONEY! HAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAA

Fri, 2010-05-14 01:54 — David (not verified)

Tellit illustrates my point perfectly. People have offended against PC dogma and so must be mocked and insulted. Looking at his previous posts no substantial points are made just anti-white racist rhetotic, nit picking and mockery. If he really believes he has truth on his side he would argue the case. His dishonest arguments suggest otherwise.

Tillit. I don't know but I would hazzard a guess that bill wants to know your ethnicity so he can judge whether you're a non-white PC anti-white racist hypocrite or whether you're a PC self hating white fool. Frankly I think it makes no difference. The PC bigotry is still the same.

Mon, 2010-05-10 19:52 — Concerned Resident (not verified)

The reason wh Nationalist,BNP/National Front did so bad was....In Nick Gri££ins own words."We lost due to a big turn out of voters".Now if people cant wake up and smell the coffee and quick.It will be too late to salvage anything thats left.A total repatriation scheme has to be implimented.Forget all this £50,000 malarky.When will people realise.....Thres too many people in the UK as it is.Why allow more in for whatever reason the choose to come here.High immigration = High unemployment,overcrowded schools,Pressure on the NHS,More crime,More cars on the road,more polution,More cheap labour,Loss of jobs for people who'v lived and were born here,if all thes dont register with joe public........wake up Britain

Fri, 2010-05-14 02:31 — Nuclearman

The BNP & UKIP people are the old Alf Garnets of the Conservative Party who defected because the Conservatives were moving away from their Enoch Powell racist roots.
The Lib-Dems and Conservatives only agree on shit that does'nt matter like ID cards, he will sell out for a few cabinet posts, the Tories are frightened to death of PR because they dont have anything in common with any of the other parties except those mentioned above would never get elected as a majority again under such a system.

Sun, 2010-05-09 14:36 — compayee (not verified)

>Being a resident of Barking all my life and having watched the decline as more newcomers take the jobs and homes of people who have lived ere all their lives,I saw the BNP as my last hope. Now Like most other hard working white families , I'm moving my family out of the borough.

So where are you off then? Essex?
The London voters utterly rejected the BNP/UKIP so yeah, perhaps this is not the place racist bigots (I'm not saying you are one) should reside right now in.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/election2010/results/region/3.stm

Fri, 2010-05-14 02:33 — Tellit (not verified)

As for you David – and this really is the only reply you’re getting – anyone that identifies and then associates themselves with the kind of tripe mary (gibbons) has been churning out above has already done for themselves.
Plus backing your argument with links to the daily mash is akin to me sourcing the onion! These sites are great for well observed humour that punches holes in BS, not so much for actual development of thought.
I don’t care much for OTT political correctness. I think it’s always best to say what you really feel and then deal with the fallout. Instead of treading on eggshells and not calling a situation like it is. I wrote above that more than anything I’m a realist.
That said, the difference between Somalia and japan is cultural. I wouldn’t rule out history and racism. You can hardly ignore history, much as I’m sure you’d like to believe the world is and always has been this way since you were born. “the further back in history I look, the further ahead I can see.” Rome was once a “developing country”, following Greece and carthage along a path well forged by the Egyptians, Persians and mesoptamians. Then came along a little episode called the dark ages.
Anyway, at least you distinguished Somalia as a country. Rather than lumping all of Africa together. And that leaves some hope because if you can make that distinction, then perhaps you can make the distinction between the less than 1% of a community in Peckham that terrorise the local population, and people like mary who believe this minority of people are reason enough to paint an entire group of people as a problem. Despite the fact that it is their own community that suffers most at the hands of a criminal minority. Economically, socially and perhaps worst of all, by giving people leverage to go around saying things like “these people are fundamentally different from us.” “they’re pre-disposed to commit these crimes and act in an anti-social way.” “haiti and Zimbabwe will never develop further, in fact they’re going backwards. Why? Because of the people who inhabit these countries.”
It’s just ignorance, plain and simple. The truth is much longer than a lie and god knows how much time I could waste trying to work it through in a reasoned argument. But I’m not going to cos I fear it would be wasted. People such as yourself and mary have the blinkers on, have a fixed view of things and fail to see people on an individual level. You prefer to talk on a tribal level and in terms of continents this and countries that. Us and them. “you people”, “those people”. It’s not being PC to call this a bigoted, simplistic or racist way of thinking. In fact, I’d even describe it in evolutionary terms as not developing, but going backwards.

BNP-BRITISH NATIONAL PAKISTANIES's picture

Fri, 2010-05-07 21:43 — BNP-BRITISH NATIONAL PAKISTANIES (not verified)

lmaoooooooo the website is down hahaaha, idiotsssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss

Fri, 2010-05-07 22:49 — nimh

That's good news. On the other hand, the BNP increased its national share of the general elections vote from 0.7% to 1.9%. They went from less than 200,000 votes to well over 500,000 votes. That's not good.

I'm surprised - and worried - that the results of the far right have not received more media attention today. UKIP and BNP together pooled a full 5% of the vote. That's more than the SNP, Plaid and all Northern-Irish parties added up together.

This is alarming, frankly. When's the last time the far right got 5% in a national election in Britain?

Fri, 2010-05-14 03:17 — Tellit (not verified)

had to do this in 2 parts i'm afraid. duty called:

mary is quite simply there to be mocked! he's doing most of the legwork himself. but there really is no point in doing anything other than poke holes and make fun of someone that constantly contradicts themselves, then uses insulting language, then complains like a hurt child about other people using insulting language. it's laughable and if you think he's in a position of strength then you're a douche by association.

"so he can judge whether you're a non-white PC anti-white racist hypocrite or whether you're a PC self hating white fool."

exactly, all you guys are about is judging, pigeonholing and categorising. step back and take an objective look at what you've written and try to imagine what someone else reading it for the first time, without the weird and clearly self-satisfied 'look what i done ma. wrote on a website!' feeling of smugness that seems evident, and you may feel slightly embarrassed.

Sun, 2010-05-16 00:59 — David (not verified)

Tellit - To clarify political correctness being an ideology. The ideology is called cultural marxism. There is a brief introduction to the subject here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyu-9-OhHog

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KI3ulKg5gH4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mk6C3s1ol1A

You can argue about whether PC/cultural marxism is agood ideology but I don't think you can just reduce it to politeness.

Fri, 2010-05-07 22:52 — mike (not verified)

Being a resident of barking all my life and having watched the decline as more newcomers take the jobs and homes of people who have lived ere all their lives,I saw the BNP as my last hope. Now Like most other hard working white families , I'm moving my family out of the borough.
You may call me a racist , but until you have your town over run by newcomers and you are made to feel like a second class citizen butt out.

Fri, 2010-05-14 03:55 — David (not verified)

Tillet - "As for you David – and this really is the only reply you’re getting"

My goodness this is patronising. I see you maxed out on patronising here by adopting a 'more in sorrow than in anger' tone. Nice touch.

"backing your argument with links to the daily mash is akin to me sourcing the onion! These sites are great for well observed humour that punches holes in BS, not so much for actual development of thought."

Really. I hadn't realised the Daily Mash was a humour site. Could you be a little more patronising please.

"I don’t care much for OTT political correctness. I think it’s always best to say what you really feel ... more than anything I’m a realist."

Being PC does not mean avoiding bluntness. Political correctness i.e. cultural marxism is an ideology. If you really believe in the ideology you can be as blunt as you like.

"That said, the difference between Somalia and japan is cultural. I wouldn’t rule out history and racism."

You've said something both sensible and true here. However you've neatly avoided the question as to why such significant and persistant cultural differences exist.

"You can hardly ignore history, much as I’m sure you’d like to believe the world is and always has been this way since you were born. “the further back in history I look, the further ahead I can see.”"

Wow. Really going for it with the patronising

"Rome was once a “developing country”, following Greece and carthage along a path well forged by the Egyptians, Persians and mesoptamians."

Exactly. These countries developed.

"Then came along a little episode called the dark ages."

And then Europe deveoped itself again. I think this illustrates exactly the opposite point to the one you seem to be trying to make.

"Anyway, at least you distinguished Somalia as a country. Rather than lumping all of Africa together. And that leaves some hope"

More patronising please

"because if you can make that distinction ... it is their own community that suffers most at the hands of a criminal minority."

Nice avoiding the argument by appealing to guilt there

"perhaps worst of all, by giving people leverage to go around saying things like “these people are fundamentally different from us.” “they’re pre-disposed to commit these crimes and act in an anti-social way.”"

But why does this 'leverage' exist with cetain communities and less so with others. Again neatly avoiding the question.

“haiti and Zimbabwe will never develop further, in fact they’re going backwards. Why? Because of the people who inhabit these countries.”
It’s just ignorance, plain and simple."

It may be unkind to say that about Haiti and Zimbabwe but that doesn't make in untrue.

"The truth is much longer than a lie and god knows how much time I could waste trying to work it through in a reasoned argument. But I’m not going to cos I fear it would be wasted."

If you don't want to spend more time arguing on the internet fair play. Why not work through a reasoned argument for youself and then work out a devils advocate position. Question your assumptions and be open minded. Just a suggestion.

"People such as yourself have the blinkers on, have a fixed view of things and fail to see people on an individual level."

A rather bigoted statement from you here. I used to be a liberal and gradually gave up that position as I found it didn't fit the evidence.

"It’s not being PC to call this a bigoted, simplistic or racist way of thinking. In fact, I’d even describe it in evolutionary terms as not developing, but going backwards."

But you are being PC and you are being bigoted. You are uncomfortable with certain lines of thought and prefer to label them racist and bigoted rather then question if they might be true.

Fri, 2010-05-14 04:25 — David (not verified)

Tellit. To be honest you're right if you say that Bill could have been rather more neat and clear in the way he wrote. That gave you an angle to criticise him but that wasn't the reason why you critised him. You cricised him for offending your PC sensibilties.

Some people might suggest that calling someone a "douche by association" was "judging, pigeonholing and categorising".

I'm always happy to step back and reconsider ideas and arguments. The great thing about arguing, in conversation or on the internet, is that it encourages you to do that. The question is whether you might be willing to step back and question your own PC assumptions

Mon, 2010-05-10 20:11 — Concerned Resident (not verified)

Nick Gri££in and the BNP are a spent force.Infighting amongst themselves was their own downfall.Yes they have the membership in No's at the moment.But slowly they are beginning to wake up and see what they actually stand for.Hense their leaving in droves an returning to the mother party.Iv been with the NF for many years.Il stick by them through thick and thin,for one reason? I believe they are the ONLY poplitical Party who can rectify the key issues/problems this country faces.Nick Gri££in for years has been sucking up to the French National.Trying to follow their route to power.Now if history doesnt show us? The French National are are a huge force in Local politics in France.But once they get to play with the BIG boys.They get trouced.3rd,4th place.Gri££in is finished.Its been proven that hes in it ONLY for he cash,as well as his cosy parters in tow.Everything he touches he messes up.If afraid again hes done another howler.You CANT have a multi racial Nationalist party....it wont work,it never will work.Especially in Britain.We either go down one route together,unite as one,or sink.