White Poppies

Symon Hill explains why the Quaker belief in pacifism leads him to wear a white poppy.

By Symon Hill Published 07 November 2008 18:31

To be Quaker is to choose a religion fundamentally at odds with the dominant values around us. For me, this is both exciting and challenging.

Quakers often enjoy publicity at this time of year, because – like other pacifists - we wear white poppies. Like most Quaker commitments, this is often misunderstood. White poppies are not about insulting the dead, but about honouring them by working for an end to war. It was this visible commitment to pacifism that initially attracted me to Quakers, but the attitude grows out of something deeper.

The starting-point of Quakerism is that the inward light of God is available to everyone. Of course, we are all limited by our own contexts, egos and the inclination to fall back on human rules. I admit that Quakers – myself included - often fall for a shoddy substitute of our religion that mistakes sympathy for love and lack of commitment for open-mindedness. But Quakerism at its best is shocking in its radicalism. If God's light is present in all people, then to hurt another person is to hurt God, to refuse to learn from others is to set ourselves above God and to treat anyone as my inferior or superior is simply blasphemy.

Far from fluffy idealism, this involves a hard struggle to reorient our lives and to improve the world. I cannot believe in the universal availability of God without rejecting the lie that there is no alternative to war and poverty. This is no excuse for naivety: campaigning needs to be effective. I am proud of the role that Quakers have played in campaigns to abolish the transatlantic slave trade, reform prisons and secure human rights.

While I wear a white poppy as a memorial and a campaigning tool, it is also a sign of a belief in a different world. When protesting outside the London Arms Fair last year, I experienced a moment of powerful clarity when I was struck by the flimsiness and transience of the arms dealers' power compared to the everlasting light of God, accessible in all our hearts if we will turn to it.

The power that was in Jesus is available to us now. His teachings of love, justice and nonviolence are a realistic approach to life, society and politics. As a Quaker, I cannot separate personal from political, sacred from secular, earthly from heavenly. The Kingdom of God is within us. It is up to us to live it.

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21 comments

Tue, 2008-11-18 09:31 — mary sherlock

What is the "clear political statement "made by the white poppy, in your view? And how is it offensive?

Tue, 2008-11-18 19:14 — revup

In my view the clear political statement made by the white poppy is that all the sacrifices, past and present were pointless, that all war is wrong, and that therefore everyone involved in war is also wrong.

I could not wear a white poppy on a day when I reflect on those who have lost their lives, nor could I in good conscience wear white in front of the relatives and loved ones of those who have died. It would be as if I were saying “your loss was for nothing.”

I certainly believe that war is wrong, but I also believe that on occasions it is the lesser of two evils. Sometimes it is better to fight than to allow evil to prosper. Peace is always what we should desire and work towards, but in a world where there is evil, good must be allowed to triumph. I do not believe in a peace at all costs. (PM Neville Chamberlain learned this to our cost in 1938)

The comment I must make is that I personally believe our intervention in Iraq was wrong, but I also believe that the friends and colleagues I lost there gave their lives because they believed they efforts would bring peace. That though our leaders were wrong, good could still come from bad decisions. Soldiers don’t go to war because they love fighting; they go because they believe it is right, and every single one of them has but one desire…..to come home again.

Wearing Red lets them know we remember them. It does not say we support the war, or any war….. it is about the victims of war, and soldiers are as much victims as anyone else. The time to oppose war is not on Remembrance Day, and for me that is what the White Poppy says “I oppose war”. Make that sentiment on another day, and I too will wear white, but on Remembrance Day it will always be Red for me.

Tue, 2008-11-18 19:20 — revup

Thanks for the discussion by the way. Makes me think. Its good to get other peoples opinions and to think about the issue properly.

Sun, 2008-11-09 20:31 — Elsparris

I'm glad the Quakers wear white poppies - I just wish they were more publicly available and I'd wear one too! As it is I just don't doo poppies at all. Often, the way remembrance day is done it seems to glorify war rather than remember those, many of whom were non-combatants, who have died in war.

Fri, 2008-11-14 09:20 — revup

As a church minister, and a former Army Chaplain, I find Remembrance Day a difficult and emotional time. I have to be professional as I conduct services, but also have my own personal memories of soldiers and friends lost in Iraq and Afghanistan.
I wear the Red Poppy to remember the sacrifice of all who died past and present, and I fervently hope for a future where such sacrifice will no longer be necessary. For me the Red Poppy is already a symbol of hope for the future, (it was after all found growing in the devastated battlefields of Flanders, and was chosen for that reason....)
I am also anti-war, I have seen its consequences first hand, and believe that peace is the only answer. I am offended that those who wear the white poppy should think that their sentiments are any different from mine, or indeed anyone else who wears Red.
I hold the beliefs of the Quakers with greatest respect, they have a long and proud history of pacifism and opposition to war and the only difference between their beliefs and mine is in how we achieve our collective goal. I think the White Poppy simply cheapens the cause of pacifism.
From my point of view the White Poppy can only be worn by those who do not understand the true meaning of Remembrance Day. The Liturgy of a Remembrance Service includes a commitment to those who are living today to work for a better future; it does not glorify the past, nor is it stuck in the past.
Yet the past is important, ....as a statement above the door of the former Dachau Concentration Camp in Germany reads "Those who do not learn from the past, are condemned to repeat its mistakes."
Lets not turn Remembrance Day into a time for making trite political statements, wear Red, as a symbol of Remembrance AND Peace.

Thu, 2009-03-26 02:12 — lmwal931

i am always better in my walk when i investigate other denominations and belief systems. everyone has some important concept from our GOD. satan's middle name is criticism, condemnation, back biting, and hate. i have identified satan as the world. i don't think he has a red tail. our GOD is a GOD of diversity. i get excited when i meet people who are different. GOD wants us to be one in our love for

Mon, 2008-11-24 05:36 — mary sherlock

When the red poppy is used to support the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan (as they are in Canada) then Nov 11 is the perfect time to wear the white one. If the red poppy was simply for remembering soldiers who died, I would have no problem with them. Indeed I wore one for years. Wearing a white poppy doesn't say that all sacrifice is pointless, or that all wars are wrong - but it says that these 2 current wars are. And they are certainly not the "lesser of 2 evils".

Some veterans here wear the white poppy - and some wear both the red and white poppies. Don't forget that there is no way, other than the white poppy, to commemorate the CIVILIANS who died in wars.

And, it is not true that "soldiers don't go to war because they love fighting" - I have heard many who do. They consider it a thrill and are itching to try out their new weapons. And they love the glory. Look at Prince Harry!

Military recruiters come into high schools after Remembrance Day, and the most vulnerable students are very attracted to dreams of glory. It is a terrible to watch them being seduced.

There is so much distress in Canada by how the red poppy is being used - that I find people are aching for an alternative.

Mon, 2008-11-10 18:28 — Jonathan2

Red poppies do no stand solely for the remembrance of the dead. if you look on the British Legion website it states clearly that red poppies are for remembering only our own soldiers (not those of other countries or civilians). They also say that the poppy is to remember "those who gave their lives for peace and freedom" - in other words, there is a judgement implicit that the war had a specific, and positive effect.

White poppies have been available in the UK since the early 1930s when women who had lost brothers, sons and fathers in WW1 asked the British Legion if they would print "No More War" in the centre of the red ones. The Legion declined, so the women produced white ones. You can now get them from the Peace Pledge Union.

Incidently, two years ago the British Legion accepted that since the believed people died to defend our freedoms, that freedom should include how we choose to remember and which colour poppy we wear.

Tue, 2008-11-25 08:48 — revup

Mary, I can't comment on Canada, but I’ve always understood that the Red Poppy stood for all who were killed in war, including civilians.

Granted it may have a national sentiment, ie it remembers OUR soldiers and civilians, not necessarily those of our enemy/ies (though that is much more being recognised.) However Remembrance of the dead is universal.

In Iraq I visited the Commonwealth war grave in Basra, which commemorates those from Britain and the Commonwealth who died in Iraq during WW1. Apart from being a little neglected the memorial had not been damaged or disrespected by the Iraqi people.

I also visited the Iraqi war memorial in Baghdad, which remembers the million or so Iraqis, soldiers and civilians who died in the Iran- Iraq war.

My point is, that every nation remembers their dead, soldier and civilian, though I agree that sometimes we are not good at remembering the dead of other nations....however all nations remember their own dead.

You say that some soldiers enjoy fighting and look forward to using their new weapons. I think you will find that this is just youthful enthusiasm from those who have never been to war. Young soldiers often 'talk big' to impress the girls. I've never known any soldier who really wants to go to war. Once they are on the transport and in theatre the boasting stops and the professionalism takes over. I also know of few soldiers who have experienced combat who ever want to go back. The Army looses a significant proportion of its soldiers through resignations after every major deployment……..And I think that is how it should be, I would encourage a healthy hatred of war.

Tue, 2008-11-25 08:55 — revup

Mary, I also don't know what you mean by "Look at Prince Harry!" I think you are seeing a young man who is determined to do his job, despite the media spotlight that is constantly upon him.

In Britain military recruiters are always in schools, as are the recruiters to many other spheres of industry and work. I see no reason why that should not continue. I certainly have my criticisms in regard to their presentations, because they tend to focus on the highs of military life and not the lows…..but isn’t that what every recruiter to ever job does? The fact that their presence in schools receives more publicity around Remembrance Day is a media issue, not a military issue!

I agree with you, that something must be done if the issue in Canada is so strongly felt. But I still think the best idea is to mount your challenge from a different hill. Have a different 'White Poppy' Day and make the necessary points on that day.......then I think that your point will be heard, (not simply ignored) and I'm sure you will find a much wider body of support from the public. (You would certainly have mine!)

Wed, 2008-11-26 02:00 — mary sherlock

I found this editorial in a major Canadian newspaper on Nov 11 - and I quote" "That leaves us today once again remembering the ultimate price paid by past generations of Canadian soldiers while a new wave of brave men and women remain in harms way in Afghanistan.......we need to recognize that weariness with the conflict here only makes it more difficult for our soldiers, who will know that they are now at risk of dying in a war that many Canadians believe we cannot win"

Once again - a link with Nov 11 and the current war in Afghanistan. I would not say that Canadians are simply weary of these wars - but downright disgusted with them.

And certainly Nov 11 does NOT acknowledge the civilians who have died - it's purely military deaths.

Here there are many soldiers in Afghanistan who volunteer to go back many times - they say they feel alive when fighting. And Harry has frequently expressed enthusiasm for the activity - in fact he was determined to go back. There are many other things he could do that would avoid the public spotlight - and be USEFUL!

Also, it's not that the recruiters get more publicity around Nov 11, it's that they come in to schools then, hoping to capitalize on the day.

I'm afraid I must continue to disagree - Nov 11 is the best day to wear a white poppy - to show that we are not in support of how the day is being used politically and has been turned into.

Wed, 2008-11-12 10:07 — Mary Shelrock

The red poppies are for remembering the soldiers who died in war. However, the white poppies are to remember the civilians who died in war - and also as a reminder of our failure to end war. I no longer wear a red poppy, as it has been used in recent years to glorify war, and to support immoral missions in Iraq and Afghanistan. In my opinion, Nov 11 is being perverted and I wear my white poppy proudly. I support soldiers who refuse to fight.

Fri, 2008-11-07 19:13 — stradella4

Quakerism is indeed a movement with a history to be proud of. It is therefore the more sad that it is cheapened by the white poppy stunt. Remembrance is just that- to remember those who bought our freedom and not a time for 'campaigning tools'.

Fri, 2008-11-07 19:52 — Jonty Stang

Quakers are people I often find common cause with, good people who do good things. However, I do object to white poppies - because by making a moral judgement they implicity presume one in the red poppies, which are beautiful because they stand solely for rememberance of the dead.

Fri, 2008-11-21 07:56 — gnuneo

no revup, i am sorry, but there are NO "good wars". All war is hell, it is hell for the soldiers who die, it is hell for the soldiers that kill, it is hell for all civilians that are involved.

you will no doubt point to WW2 as "a good war" - because it "stopped the Nazis". Yet pacifists ask - WHY did this war come about? Unlike the history taught in kindergarten, the reality is that this war was entirely preventable, it was to an amazing degree created not only by the Nazis, but also our own, British, elite and rulers. i could argue this one out, but really - there is no point. The White Poppy is worn to illustrate a deeper commitment to Peace, a peace that goes FAR beyond any 'national' attachment, or any specific army's dead - a Peace that fulfils the Christian obligation to "turn the other cheek", a Peace that recognises no skin colour, or gender, or Nation, or any other label Humans attach to themselves.

it is to say, that every act of violence, is an act of violence perpetrated between Family members, that all of Humanity share common genetic bonds, and that anything that seeks to divide us, to try to make us fight, has wrongness at its core.

can the Red Poppy say this? No, it cannot. Its own message may indeed be everything you have said - and said very well, i would like to add - but its own message of Peace falls far short of this. And, also, there is the undercurrent of Militarism about it, whether you accept that or not. I have certainly seen it, anyway.

no, we should not forget the citizens who gave the Ultimate, absolutely not - but here is a thought provoker - those who wear the White Poppy almost certainly opposed the Iraq Invasion from the word go, how many Red Poppy wearers did likewise? True, many did (in fact well over 50% of the UK population opposed the War before it began!), but i doubt it was any similar relation to the White Poppy anti-war movement %.

The Red Poppy has its message, and the White its. Respect them both, IMHO.

Fri, 2008-11-21 14:24 — revup

“you will no doubt point to WW2 as "a good war" - because it "stopped the Nazis". Yet pacifists ask - WHY did this war come about? Unlike the history taught in kindergarten, the reality is that this war was entirely preventable”

Gnueno, I agree entirely, all wars are preventable. They occur because man is inherently sinful. I have no problem in saying that we should all work towards a time when war will not occur.
WW2 was not a ‘Good War’ …….no wars are good. But it was however justifiable. Men fail, and there was no doubt massive failure in solving the issues that led to WW2, much more could have been done and should have been done……..but it wasn’t!
In 1939 we were left with an alternative, a Nazi Europe, or war. In such circumstances war was the only alternative. Not good, but justifiable. Before God we will answer for our failures. The problem is that we have not learned from our failures, and so war continues.

“it is to say, that every act of violence, is an act of violence perpetrated between Family members, that all of Humanity share common genetic bonds, and that anything that seeks to divide us, to try to make us fight, has wrongness at its core.”
Again, I agree……From one blood comes every nation of men, says Acts. But since Cain killed Abel, war and inhumanity have been at the centre of man’s rebellion against God. Simply saying it should stop isn’t going to make it stop! I also agree that violence breeds violence, that two wrongs don’t make a right, and all of that….but sometimes the wrong of war is better than the wrong of an unjust peace. Preventing man from killing man is a wonderful ideal, but if it means that we all live under oppression and without freedom, which is the greater evil?

Fri, 2008-11-21 14:25 — revup

“can the Red Poppy say this? No, it cannot. Its own message may indeed be everything you have said - and said very well, i would like to add - but its own message of Peace falls far short of this.”

Again I agree totally Gnueno. The Red Poppy falls short of saying that all war should end. But I don’t think this should be the explicit sentiment of Remembrance Day. We should remember the sacrifices of the past, and hope, pray and work towards a time when they are no longer necessary. But Remembrance Day is not the time to stand up and shout that all wars are wrong. The feelings of those who have lost loved ones must be respected; this is their day, not ours. It should not be hijacked by politics or be used as a campaigning tool for the anti war agenda. To even hint that their sacrifice was wrong is disrespectful and hurtful.

“The Red Poppy has its message, and the White its. Respect them both, IMHO.”

Again Gnueno, I agree entirely, but don’t wear White on Remembrance Day where its message will be lost and where it will be open to criticism and contempt. Have a White Poppy day, a day of peace, and I will join in. Send the proceeds of the white poppy to Amnesty International, or the UNHCR. Let the message of the White Poppy be heard, let the history of its origins be known. Do this and I will support White, and I know many others will as well. Wear it on Remembrance Day however and it will simply be regarded as an rebellious gesture and ignored. I for one think it should have its place, don’t you?

I must also encourage, and say that I have the highest respect for those who hold to pacifism. Your work is necessary, and your campaigning essential. I’m not trying here to convince people that I am right, infact I quietly hope to be convinced that there is a better way, after the things I’ve seen I would be much happier if there was another way, I just don’t think that pacifism is it.....yet

Fri, 2008-11-21 14:28 — revup

I am also very encouraged by the spirit of this discussion. Mutual respect, love for others, and a hope for the future will go a long way towards accomplishing what we all pray for. A world without war.

thanks

Mon, 2008-11-17 09:44 — mary sherlock

Revup: you make some very disparaging comments about the white poppies. I'd like to ask you a question. I used to wear the red poppy In Canada, where I live, but it is now being used to support our morally bankrupt foreign policy in Afghanistan. In good conscience, I can no longer wear it. What do you suggest I do? Wear nothing and risk the chance of looking apathetic? I have been in the military myself and my father suffered terribly as a prisoner of war in WW2. I am very familiar with the military and the effects of war. Certainly, I agree with you that those who do not learn the lessons of the past are condemned to repeat its mistakes. How can I wear a symbol (the red poppy) which is now being used to promote more war? How on earth does the white poppy cheapen the cause of pacifism?? I understand the original meaning of Remembrance Day very well - but it has changed. Once again, what do you suggest I do?

Mon, 2008-11-17 20:25 — revup

I’m not familiar with Canadian politics, nor if, or how the red poppy has become politicised there. I can only comment on the state of play in the United Kingdom, and here I do not see that the red poppy has become political. The white poppy however makes a clear political statement, and one that I personally think is completely unnecessary, and offensive on Remembrance Day.

I completely support the freedom of those who want to protest against the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, I would at a pinch join in with them…..if it weren’t for the politics! I might even wear a white poppy if it was on a special ‘Day of Peace’…….but Red has always been the symbol of Hope and Remembrance, it does NOT glorify war, (even if it has been hijacked for such in Canada?) and I feel that Remembrance Day is not the day for making ‘alternative’ gestures at the expense of the feelings of the majority of others.

Thu, 2008-11-13 11:01 — Veronica

I wear a white poppy because I recognize that soldiers don't primarily go out to die for their country, they go out to kill for their country. And they don't do it in my name.