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21 comments from readers

mavaddat
26 November 2008 at 04:35

I was a Bahá'í for my entire life, raised in a Bahá'í family, and active in the prorogation of the religion at home and around the world. I left the religion a few years ago after becoming disillusioned by the amount of self-promotion that is done by the Bahá'í world community in the name of "philanthropic work."

As a matter of actual fact, Bahá'ís take very little social action that is of any consequence.

Don't get me wrong: the examples cited by Ms Ghanea are by no means false: Bahá'ís do build schools, help literacy, and more. However, the primary objective of all Bahá'í-inspired work is always to promote their religion in so doing. The reason why Bahá'ís tend to build schools, advocate literacy, and spiritiual meetings (what they call "the three core-processes") is that all of these are conducive to marketing their religion.

The main areas where Bahá'ís exert their greatest effort provide humanity little (if any) benefit, but are merely engineered to enlist more believers. These believers are then assumed (by definition) to be "better off," even if their condition is not changed at all, because they are inherently "closer to God" as a result of embracing the religion. This is the empty concept of social action in the Bahá'í world community today: marketing the religion to create more believers to market the religion.

Secondly, the vast majority of these endeavours are actual businesses (such as the schools) that individual Bahá'ís profit from. If Bahá'ís didn't do the work, someone else would, because there is money to be made. In other words, there is not a gap being filled by Bahá'í-inspired work.

Of course, even though I speak from years of experience as a former Bahá'í, I understand it is imperative to the defense of their religion that Bahá'ís emphatically deny these charges. It should be no surprise to see that happening here, therefore.

wesox
26 November 2008 at 06:08

I have been a Bahai for a year. I would like to share that everything that we do as Bahais, we do it with love. Love for humanity. Never the aim of any actions we do relates to marketing or profit. If such is your view, as a true Bahai, you must contribute to change this wrong idea.

gnuneo
26 November 2008 at 06:19

there is always idealism and corruption in every religion. Even the Vatican, famed amongst all the other cults for its voracious self-aggrandisement, has had its share of honest idealists.

so far mz ghanea, all you have said in your articles is that Bahá'í do some charity work, and that you regard yourself as the 'universal faith'.

whilst that is a probably unconscious slip demonstrating yet more 'Universal Religious Values' (as in point to another that doesn't say the same!), it would be nice to hear a specific reason why Bahá'í is something special.

mavaddat
26 November 2008 at 08:55

Wesox, you have been gravely misinformed. From your own authority, I quote:

"The Five Year Plan … requires concentrated and sustained attention to two essential movements. The first is the steady flow of believers through the sequence of courses offered by training institutes, for the purpose of developing the human resources of the Cause. The second, which receives its impetus from the first, is the movement of geographic clusters from one stage of growth to the next. These two movements have been at the heart of the learning experience of the Bahá'í world and are the focus of this analysis." (http://bahaistudies.net/momentum.html)

That is from a document entitled "Building Momentum" from the Universal House of Justice, Department of the Secretariat, dated 27 April 2003.

This has been the mandate of the Bahá'í Faith from its inception: all social action is a mere means to "spreading the cause". If philanthropy for humanity's sake is important to you, I would seriously suggest you reconsider being a part of this religion. It is a religion of marketing first, period.

wesox
26 November 2008 at 09:17

Maybe you will agree with me that different people have different views when reading the same text. First of all this message comes from the Universal House of Justice, and as you know this means that this part of the text "for the purpose of developing human resources" is directly coming from God. Some may see it as wanting to market the Faith, but if you look at it in its context of the whole letter, as well as looking at how the Faith has grown in a little more than 160 yrs, only then you will understand its meaning. This is why this letter was destined to Bahais around the world. As we know about the necessity of human resources in teaching.

Wendi Momen
26 November 2008 at 11:28

I am also a Baha'i. My understanding is that the purpose of religion is two-fold: to bring individuals closer to God and to enable civilization to advance socially, spiritually, materially - in balance with the environment and in peace and in line with the imperatives of the day and as a result of the maturation of individuals and humanity collectively. That is, religion is transformative. The work of the Baha'is is directed towards fulfilling these objectives because they are beneficial to people and their communities and Baha'is believe that such goals are the will of God. The aim of Baha'is is not to get more Baha'is just so there are a lot of them or because their religion is heaps better than everone else's but because if this is the way all humanity can be happier, more peaceful, more just and more prosperous, then this is a global enterprise requiring a lot of people who are willing to and able to make it happen. As Baha'is see religion as progressively revealed over the whole history of humanity and that their `religion' is just part of the great flood of religion across millennia - that is, there is only common faith - then this global enterprise is also one that has ever been and will ever be. But, at the same time, if people disagree, Baha'is are, I find, generally willing to accept that others see things differently and are still very happy to work with them towards any little thing that will generally makes things better for others.

gnuneo
26 November 2008 at 20:32

this all sounds very similar to Aleister Crowleys introduction in Magick in Theory and Practice, however he managed to say it without creating yet another cult devoted to its own growth.

don't mean to sound insulting, it is clear you Baha'is get a lot of comfort, and motivation from your religion, and you do some good work. Its just as an adult, i prefer to do my own thinking, and not have to conform to an external religion/belief system.

mavaddat
27 November 2008 at 04:47

Wendi opines that if the world becomes Bahá'í, then we will all be maximally happy. So she wants us to believe that Bahá'ís seek to convert the world as a means to happiness.

The problem is that the Bahá'í ideal is not only Utopian, but their standard of human happiness is completely divorced from actual human psychology. When they become Bahá'í, new believers are assumed (by definition) to be "better off," even if their social and psychological condition is not changed at all, because they are inherently "closer to God" as a result of embracing the religion. In other words, they employ a completely metaphysical standard of happiness that doesn't at all depend on actual happiness.

If the implementation of Bahá'í ideals doesn't make the world happier, Bahá'ís will always assume that, oh, it is because they haven't implemented them properly; or, oh, people aren't following the rules properly. They will never conclude, for example, that maybe prohibiting abortion, gay marriage, premarital sex, and alcohol (all actual Bahá'í prohibitions) is actually not conducive of happiness.

When the Bahá'í Faith speaks of unity, what it has in mind is the world being united as Bahá'ís. To me, this is the epitome of self-promotional delusion.

gnuneo
27 November 2008 at 08:14

"If the implementation of Bahá'í ideals doesn't make the world happier, Bahá'ís will always assume that, oh, it is because they haven't implemented them properly; or, oh, people aren't following the rules properly. They will never conclude, for example, that maybe prohibiting abortion, gay marriage, premarital sex, and alcohol (all actual Bahá'í prohibitions) is actually not conducive of happiness.

When the Bahá'í Faith speaks of unity, what it has in mind is the world being united as Bahá'ís. To me, this is the epitome of self-promotional delusion."

well, well, well. Are all these true, Bahá'ís? Just yet another repressive religion? Homosexuality denied equality, women without control over conception, and Church control over sex (as only the Church can marry, no doubt), and Church control over Bacchanalian pathways to possible enlightenment? (and no doubt also over other pharmacopoeia).

but at least you have gender equality, so you're a couple of steps up from the slime that has been passed off as Christianity for the last couple of thousand years.

still, got some ways to go before you can be a *real* universal religion, eh?

kaweah
27 November 2008 at 13:40

I'm inclined to believe that the Baha'is, for the most part, wish to make the world a better place. The problem is that, like the Mormons, the Baha'i solution is for the world to submit to their religious law and to the authority of their divinely-guided leadership. Their efforts at education are largely, though I think not exclusively, inspired by a need to bring in converts, because behind the principles that they speak of, the Baha'i Faith is fundamentally about obedience to divine law and authority.

mavaddat
27 November 2008 at 22:35

The Bahá'í standard for effective social action is in terms of believers recruited to "the cause". On that basis, they care as much about your happiness as someone who says that can cure your diseases by rubbing you with a magic amulet.

firestorm
01 December 2008 at 04:48

two things bear noting:

1.

documents relating to teaching the Faith have nothing to do with economic development projects.

2. Most religious groups have recognisable praxes of behaviour--it is what makes them "relingions." nothing that impairs reason w/o prescription; abortion involves recognising the personhood of the unborn (the Faith does not prohibit it); that proper expression of sexual behaviour belongs in marriage. lots of people donlt like those ideas. none of which have anything to do with members of the Faith tending towards "service" occupations, and seeing self-identity involved with serving others. inside that paradigm, individual investigation of truth is a core "Baha'i" ideal. It is often maligned by those who do not like the results members of the Faith have found for themselves, and therefore insist it is all brainwashing, when often all it is is exposure to immature understandings foisted by others. "effective social action" (feel free to read any periodical about the state of the world) would be to have two or three billion more people act like "truthfulness is the foundation of all human virtue"--as opposed to how much money you make, how often drunk, how often sexually gratified, how often the "winner" in a business deal. would anybody here like to see a few world leaders try it?

mavaddat
01 December 2008 at 10:33

Hi Firestorm,

Do you think that the alternative to the dogmatic superstition of the Bahá'í Faith is a life of meaningless sex, drugs, and greed? No wonder you cling to your religion!

1. You know that fulfilling the mandates issued by the Universal House of Justice in their "documents" are the be-all end-all of the Bahá'í World Community. They define the goal of all Bahá'í action.

2. By "praxes of behaviour" do you mean proselytizing under the pretense of social action? But you seem to think that religion is mendacious by its very nature!

The Bahá'í Faith doesn't forbid abortion? Really? I quote: "Abortion merely to prevent the birth of an unwanted child is strictly forbidden in the Cause." (The Universal House of Justice, May 23, 1975)

Isn't that interesting? Are you a liar? Or profoundly cognitively dissonant?

I'm sure you'll say that abortion isn't completely forbidden in the Bahá'í Faith, which would be like Sarah Palin saying she's "not opposed" to abortion since she allows for it in cases where the mother may die. As this way of "not forbidding" abortion would be in agreement with the general mendacity of your post, I assume this is what you meant.

It seems you have literally frightened yourself into a box of irrationality. It is as Kant envisioned:

The guardians who have so benevolently taken over the supervision of humankind have carefully seen to it that the far greatest part of them regard taking the step to maturity as very dangerous, not to mention difficult. Having first made their domestic livestock dumb, and making sure that these placid creatures will not dare take a single step without the harness of the cart to which they are tethered, the guardians then show them the danger which threatens if they try to go alone. Now this danger is not actually so great, for after falling a few times they would in the end certainly learn to walk; but an example of this kind makes men timid and usually frightens them out of all further attempts.

mavaddat
01 December 2008 at 11:21

By the way, you seem to have entirely missed the point of my raising the Bahá'í beliefs about homosexuality, abortion, and alcohol.

The point was that whether prohibiting these things (or whatever laws the Bahá'í Faith endorses) actually leads to human happiness is of no concern to the Bahá'í World Community. There is no investigation by Bahá'ís into whether their social principles actually make people happier. It simply isn't important to them.

Bahá'ís believe that their religion will make people happier whether or not it actually does. Bahá'ís are assumed better-off by definition, in a magical metaphysical way, not by any actual change in their lives.

Onno Vinkhuyzen
01 December 2008 at 14:25

I have been a Bahai for the last 29 years and let me say that my experiences with the faith are extremely positive. I will not be going into discussion on details here, and I did not read everything above. Let me say that my understanding and experience is roughly like Wendi's above. Guidance for the believers without the context of the Faith itself looks strange indeed (like the quote from the five year plan). Thank God the essence of the Faith is justice, which means that we have to learn to see with our own eyes and know of our own knowledge. We have no priests to follow, and the guidance of the House is distinctly different. To me this means that we have the freedom and we are invited to live our own lives, after our own believes and consciousness, without criticising or judging others. I do not know the lives that other people live, why they experience and understand the things the way they do, but to my understanding, which is highly inspired by the Bahai Faith, all religion comes from the same God, there is (and there can be) only one god and one humanity, and I like to invite everybody to investigate the words of Baha'u'llah, Bahais and non-Bahais alike, his words are for everybody. I think it could help us all to live a sincere, genuine and authentic life, based on knowledge of our source and destination, which is in my view the first prerequisite for happiness and peace in the world. I must say that the happiness that I experience now is quite different from the happiness that I new in the years before I was a Bahai. I guess that human psychology is still a very young science and lots is left to be discovered.

Onno Vinkhuyzen
01 December 2008 at 14:57

One line of what I just wrote may well be misunderstood, I change it: ... I like to invite everybody, Bahais and non-Bahais alike, to investigate the words of Baha'u'llah, his words are for everybody.

sonja
04 December 2008 at 12:19

Mavaddat and others here, thanks for your comments because I see it as a Bahai principle that there is room for debate and differing views. To quote from the Bahai Writings "The shining spark of truth cometh forth only after the clash of differing opinions".

You raise an important point when it comes to acts of charity or for the 'greater good', and that is motive. This is why I love this quotation from Baha'ullah so much: "Make not your deeds as snares wherewith to entrap the object of your aspiration". Here he warns us to be wary of our motives when doing good for another.

Bahais are people :), so perhaps some will engage in social projects as a way of preaching, but there are other Bahais do not do this. Bahais generally tend towards the positive and my only critic with this approach is that sometimes criticism is then seen as only being negative. I do not see your comments as a bad thing. Thanks for caring enough about Baha'u'llah's Teachings to raise issues that bother you. One of the reasons I became a Bahai was because there was not this idea that Bahais had all the answers nor the idea that calling oneself a Bahai suddenly made you 'special': on the contrary the Bahai writings stress that religion is a tool or a means for development of the spirit not an ends.

eric12407
06 December 2008 at 23:45

Hi there ... just wanted to say I was at one time an

atheist .. and after investigating science and proving

to myself there was a God ... it seemed to me that the

love of God had to be reflected on earth in the form of

communication and guidance. I came to realize that

the way to God is always there for us ... in the past .. it

was with his Messengers for those times. As we

evolve .. we need more advanced guidance .. and in

this day we have the Messenger from God

Baha'u'llah. It is the most incredible guidance and

wisdom you could imagine and encompasses all

human endaevour. As our spiritual capacities grow ..

more and more of humanity will be able to grasp the

signifigance of this guidance. At the present time

humanities response is from a small brave band of

heroes .. who are trying their best to adhere to this

guidance. They are not perfect .. but their efforts will

have great effect not apparent at this time. Whatever

you do to become a better loving person means that

you are fulfilling the meaning of life. As far as Bahai's

are concerned .. that's all that matters ... we know that

eventually we will all be united in one God .. one

religion .. as we are now .. but don't know it.

gnuneo
12 December 2008 at 04:33

onno: i would like to show you something, it is not meant with offense, i hope you appreciate it, even if you do not agree with me.

"I must say that the happiness that I experience now is quite different from the happiness that I knew in the years before I was a Bahai. I guess that human psychology is still a very young science and lots is left to be discovered."

this is very true, but are you really looking at the right cause?

"to my understanding, which is highly inspired by the Bahai Faith, all religion comes from the same God, there is (and there can be) only one god and one humanity"

so - i might misunderstand you on this, but are you arguing that just as Humanity is One, has an element of Life common to all members, a Unity between us, yet also Humanity is fractious individuals, people viewing the World very differently, ALL participants in the creation of their reality, in essence a multiplicity that sometimes comes voluntarily together to form stronger communities, so too - you compare God. Although yes, there is a unity, so too there are also many lesser concepts than the Absolute*, many different conceptions of God, and some congregate to become Religions, and have Official Sanction to ply their stories.

*In essence one of the basics of Hinduism - the other God(s)ess(es) are all part of the Unity - Brahma - but are God(s)ess(es) of their own Realms, their particular viewpoint on Reality. So Hinduism allows for, caters for, both Monotheism, AND Polytheism - without the charge from the Unity God to have all the other gods annihilated. Talk about worshipping an egocentric! Or, in Quality anthropology, talk about worshipping the Ego.

gnuneo
12 December 2008 at 04:59

However a constantly flattered ego is quite a pleasurable experience for the individual, and does not produce much suffering - except perhaps for those upon the ego decides are not 'equal' to it, those the followers of a murderous and egotistical Gawd (this is in general, not pointing fingers at anyone in particular BTW) can decide are not as 'worthy' as themselves, not as 'pure' in the 'eyes of the Lord', people who are homosexuals or want to experiment, or people who do not want to ask a priesthood if they are allowed to partake of ancient sacraments, or people who might not want to carry to term the baby of a rapist, or even people who are slightly genetically different, all these people are so easily cast aside by the Faith-full, their rights as individuals second place to the Rightful Behaviour set by The Most Holy Initiated And Wise Creator Of Their Religion, from a God who Most Arrogantly demands that ALL agree with him, else they die. Painfully.

so, i suppose in a way there IS suffering from the Ego, just as Siddharta explained.

...so, i come back to - are you actually looking for the right cause? Here i quote you again:

"We have no priests to follow, and the guidance of the House is distinctly different. To me this means that we have the freedom and we are invited to live our own lives, after our own believes and consciousness, without criticising or judging others."

do you not see how it is THIS attitude, the polar *opposite* of monotheism, is why you are happier? This is the absolute core of polytheism, of accepting there are many realities, even if they ARE all subsumable into one ultimate reality, their own personal reality is also true. It knocks the Ego off the seat that the Higher Self should occupy.

and if it is true, what you said above, does your House (?) presume to disagree with your Church on homosexuality etc? Because THEY are certainly "criticising or judging others", are they not?

your Happiness comes from your Freedom *from* Judging.

StudyCircle
23 December 2008 at 03:33

Were anyone to imagine or expect that a Cause, comprising within its orbit so vast a portion of the globe, so turbulent in its history, so challenging in its claims, so diversified in the elements it has assimilated into its administrative structure, should, at all times, be immune to any divergence of opinion, or any defection on the part of its multitudinous followers, it would be sheer delusion, wholly unreasonable and unwarranted, even in the face of the unprecedented evidence of the miraculous power which its rise and progress have so powerfully exhibited. That such a secession, however, whether effected by those who apostatize their faith or preach heretical doctrines, should have failed, after the lapse of a century, to split in twain the entire body of the adherents of the Faith, or to create a grave, a permanent and irremediable breach in its organic structure, is a fact too eloquent for even a casual observer of the internal processes of its administrative order to either deny or ignore. [Shoghi Effendi]

Ref.: http://reference.bahai.org/search?max=10&lang=en&first=1&que...+delusion