The Faith Column

40 comments from readers

beebee
20 February 2008 at 13:16

In case my comment is removed again:

The lawsuit between J. Caven-Atack and Co$

http://www.religio.de/atack/hh402401.html

See section (21)(aa)

Anonymous9000
20 February 2008 at 13:45

Once again, Mr Eckersley makes some laudable claims for his faith. However the organisation which controls this miraculous "Technology" is in no way representative of the high ideals here presented.

I'll present some information from the Complaint of Gerry Armstrong to the US Department of Justice. It's a very interesting read and I would point interested readers to the whole document at:

http://www.gerryarmstrong.org/50grand/legal/a8/complaint-rpt...

So what would our world freed of insanity, criminality and drugs be like under the CoS ?

Well, anyone who objected to the aims or policies of the CoS would be sent to slave camps like the ones they already run for "out-ethic" members of their own "Orgs".

From the complaint:

"In 1974, Hubbard created the “Rehabilitation Project Force” (“RPF”), a guarded

labor detail or camp, where Sea Org personnel were summarily ordered for indefinite

periods for any infraction or on any whim. Hubbard’s published criteria, any one of

which could result in assignment to the RPF were: 1. an “R/Ser;” 2. a “low OCA non-

producer;” 3. a “repeated stat crasher;” or, 4. an “overt product maker.” An “R/Ser” is a

person on whom an auditor observes a “Rock Slam,” a particular needle movement on

the E-meter, during auditing or sec checking. An R/S meant that the person had an “evil

intention” toward Hubbard or Scientology.

21. The “OCA,” or “Oxford Capacity Analysis,” is a “personality test” that

Scientology uses as a recruitment device to draw people into the organization, and as a

measurement of people’s personality “improvement” as they progress on their “auditing

programs.” A “low OCA” is a test score with one or more points below an arbitrary line.

A “stat crasher” is a person deemed to be responsible for a statistic dropping in an area,

or project or on an organization post. All of Scientology is operated and controlled by a

system of “statistics” or “stat management.” Every person and post is “statistized” and

must report stats daily and weekly. “Downstats” are punished, whereas “upstats” can to a

degree protect a person from punishment. An “overt product maker” is a person whose

6

work contains errors, whose production is deemed unacceptable for some reason, or

requires correction or repair.

22. People ordered to the RPF were subjected to a number of punitive and

degrading conditions that included segregation from the “crew,” restriction from crew

areas, wearing black boiler suits, reduction in “pay” to one-quarter the base amount, not

speaking to a crew member unless spoken to, having to run everywhere, doing hard

manual labor and all the dirtiest work, getting a maximum of seven hours sleep, and

eating after the crew whatever was left over. RPFers had to audit each other through a

long auditing program that contained many hours of sec checking, and which could last

for months or even years. RPFers had no free time, got no days off, and could not read

newspapers or magazines, listen to radio, or watch TV. RPFers could not make

telephone calls unless such were specifically ordered and monitored, and Ethics

personnel read all mail RPFers received, and read and censored all mail RPFers sent out

from the RPF.

23. Scientology claims that assignment to the RPF is voluntary, or even a privilege,

but that is not true. Anyone who asked to leave instead of doing the RPF program was

assigned to the “RPF’s RPF,” an even more degrading and punitive experience, where the

person was guarded at all times, allowed only six hours sleep, docked all pay, had to eat

after the RPF had eaten whatever they left, and did the filthiest of the dirty work. The

RPF’s RPF member could not leave, and in fact no Sea Org member could leave, until he

had been intensely sec checked and had signed a list of his “crimes” that had been

“culled” from his auditing files. Also before the person could leave, all his personal

belongings were searched and he was stripped of any Scientology materials, even if he

had personally purchased them.

24. The RPF and the RPF’s RPF operated as a forced labor and reindoctrination

camp and as a system and procedure to break the will of anyone thought to be “out

ethics” or “counter intention” to Hubbard or his organization and activities. It was a

shocking, degrading experience to be ordered to the RPF, and the threat of RPF

assignment was used to keep non-RPF crew in line and producing. I was threatened

several times with RPF assignment during my SO years, and assigned twice for a total of

twenty-five months.

25. Hubbard and Scientology taught that the need for the severe “Ethics” penalties

and conditions such as the RPF was because for the “technology” to work it was first

necessary to “get in ethics.” Hubbard and Scientology taught that since the “tech” was

mankind’s only hope for survival, it was necessary that the people using and delivering

that “tech” be highly disciplined and ethical. Hubbard and Scientology taught that:

“The purpose of ethics is to remove counter intentions from the environment. And

having accomplished that the purpose becomes to remove other intentionedness from the

environment.” In other words, anyone or anything that was “counter intention” to

Scientology’s intentions or activities, and anyone with an intention that differed from the

organization’s intentions was unethical and was to be removed from the environment. "

I'd rather not live in the totalitarian dictatorship which is Hubbards solution to war, criminality and drug abuse. Especially as CoS "Ethics" are redefined such that "Ethical" means supporting the church and "Unethical" is simply anything which does not.

I'd also note this part of the complaint:

"12. I also gained knowledge of Hubbard’s and Scientology’s worldview, aims, and

“Ethics,” which is the organization’s system of rewards and punishment, including its

“Suppressive Person” (“SP”) doctrine and “Fair Game” policy. In their worldview,

Hubbard and Scientology divide mankind into two groups, Scientologists and non-

Scientologists, called “wogs.” The term “wogs,” in its original meaning, and in its present

meaning outside of Scientology, is a racial epithet equivalent to “niggers.” Inside

Scientology, “wogs” is also a racial epithet, referring to “Homo sapiens.” Hubbard and

Scientology teach that wogs or Homo sapiens are an inferior race, also described

derogatorily in Scientology teachings as “homo sap,” “raw meat,” or “common ordinary

run-of-the-mill garden-variety humanoids.” Hubbard and Scientology teach that

Scientologists comprise a new and superior race of hominid called “Homo Novis” or

“Homo Scientologicus.”

13. Hubbard and Scientology teach that wogs are less aware, less intelligent and less

ethical than Scientologists, and that wogs think in two dimensions, whereas

Scientologists think in three dimensions. Hubbard and Scientology teach that wogs have

never evolved a workable mental technology but only vicious technology, whereas

Scientologists have in Scientology the only workable mental technology. Hubbard and

Scientology teach that outside of Scientology is the “wog world,” which is a “hell,” and a

“jungle of noncompliance and false reports.” Hubbard and Scientology teach that “wog

justice” is “injustice” and that only Scientology’s “ethics and justice” system works."

... delightful sentiments, I'm sure you'd agree.

beebee
20 February 2008 at 13:59

Learn about Kenny's involvement in this lawsuit!

http://www.religio.de/atack/hh402401.html

Skip ahead to section (21)(aa)

Anonymous9000
20 February 2008 at 14:04

More detailed information about the humiliating, abusive and illegal slave camps of the Church of Scientology is available in this Affadavit:

http://www.whyaretheydead.net/lisa_mcpherson/es/hanarpf.html

Is this the world Mr Eckersley (wittingly, or unwittingly) is working towards ?

will smith
20 February 2008 at 14:16

“I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is only temporary; the evil it does is permanent.” - Mahatma Gandhi

"We're playing for blood, the stake is EARTH." - L. Ron Hubbard, Hubbard Communications Office Policy Letter, 7 November 1962

................................................................................................

I subscribe to the aims of Scientology which are: “a civilisation without insanity, without criminals and without war, where the able can prosper and honest beings can have rights, and where man is free to rise to greater heights”. - Kenneth Eckersley

"In any event, any person from 2.0 down on the Tone Scale should not have, in any thinking society, any civil rights of any kind, because by abusing those rights he brings into being arduous and strenuous laws which are oppressive to those who need no such restraints." - L. Ron Hubbard, SCIENCE OF SURVIVAL, 1989 Ed., p. 145 [The "Tone Scale" is Scientology's measure of mental and spiritual health.]

"The sudden and abrupt deletion of all individuals occupying the lower bands of the Tone Scale from the social order would result in an almost instant rise in the cultural tone and would interrupt the dwindling spiral into which any society may have entered." - L. Ron Hubbard, SCIENCE OF SURVIVAL, p. 170

FOR REFERENCE PURPOSES

Selected emotional states listed on the tone scale below 2.0.

.9 SYMPATHY

.5 GRIEF

.375 MAKING AMENDS

Minus .01 -PITY

Minus .02 -SHAME

Minus. 07 -ACCOUNTABLE

Minus 1.3 -REGRET

Minus 6 -SACRIFICE

"Did you ever read poor old George Orwell's uh.. 1984? Yes, yes, that's wonderful. That would be, could be, the palest imagined shadow of what a world would be like under the rule of the secret use of Scientology with no remedy in existence." - L. Ron Hubbard, Philadelphia Doctorate Course Tape 20

"I subscribe to the aims of Scientology which are: “a civilisation without insanity, without criminals and without war, where the able can prosper and honest beings can have rights, and where man is free to rise to greater heights”. - Kenneth Eckersley

"Somebody some day will say 'this is illegal.' By then be sure the orgs [Scientology organizations] say what is legal or not." - L. Ron Hubbard, Hubbard Communications Office Policy Letter, 4 January 1966, "LRH Relationship to Orgs"

"It is always more difficult to fight against faith than against knowledge. "

-Adolf Hitler

beebee
20 February 2008 at 14:28

http://www.religio.de/atack/hh402401.html

"On 15 November 1994 the Church of Scientology held a public meeting at the Whitehill Centre, Whitehill Road, Crowborough. The spokesman for the Chruch of Scientology was Kenneth Eckersley. Shortly after the meeting, Kenneth Eckersley said to the Reverend Michael John Ovey that the Plaintiff had (comment censored), and that he was continually (comment censored). Kenneth Eckersley made the said (comment censored) accusations against the Plaintiff authorised by and/or on behalf of the Church of Scientology."

See section (21)(aa) to read the censored parts.

A Nodding Mouse
20 February 2008 at 15:42

Kenneth, will you ever answer the questions people are asking about your "religion", or are we going to get the official boilerplate that bears no relation to reality?

JeraldR
20 February 2008 at 16:13

How about the New Statesman do a debate story about Scientology? These stories have been one sided and as the write is a member of scientology thats understandable.

But why not a point-counterpoint kind of story to get the readers here a chance to see both sides and decide for themselves.

Isn't that what reporting is all about? Showing all the facts? Pro and Con?

Been There
20 February 2008 at 18:47

Question authority and question…

* Scientologys harassment and litigious policies against its critics and against free speech.

* Scientologys attempts to force search engines to omit any websites critical of them.

* Scientologys belief that they are the only ones that can help the world ( make the world “clear” ), thus being intolerant of other religions – something they fight for when its their religion being attacked. (most cults believe that they are the only ones that know the “truth”)

* Scientologys disconnection policy, which requires members to cut all ties to friends and family considered "antagonistic" towards the religion (a basic practice of all cults). No other religion does this.

* Scientologys affirmation that anything written by L Ron Hubbard is the true and definitive word. It can not be altered or disputed (a single messianic figure, another basic practice of all cults). Is he really that much starter than everyone else in the world? Come on... really? Always question authority!

* Scientologys organizational structure, ethics policies and security checks. No other religion does this.

* Scientologys military uniforms and titles. No other religion does this.

* Scientologys attack on psychiatry solely because psychiatry attacked L Ron Hubbard for practicing medicine without a license and having no scientific proof that his form of psychotherapy worked. (once, after stating that Dianetics improved ones memory, a person declared as “clear” couldnt even remember the color of Hubbards tie). L Ron Hubbard turned Dianetics into Scientology in order to continue to make money and avoid criminal charges. Ask yourself, why psycs? Hmmm.. Do you think that maybe its because they are in direct competition for psychotherapy dollars. Did you know that Hubbard himself requested psychiatric assistance from the V.A.?

* Scientologys contribution scheme which requires you to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars to reach the highest level of their “Bridge to Total Freedom”. Making money is one of the sole functions of each “org” – organization - aka “mission” ( KSW – Keep Scientology Working is their motto). Christians dont charge for their “secrets”. Mormons will send you a copy of “The Book of Mormon” for free. Jehovah Witnesses will come to your house and talk to you freely about their religion. Ask yourself.. why charge if the purpose is to clear the world? Wouldnt the world be clear quicker if was free? Wouldnt people gladly give you money for “saving” them?

* Scientologys misleading images of using the cross (a symbol of Christianity), the words “Mission” and “Minister” to promote their psychotherapy as a religion (Scientologists do not believe in Christ. L Ron Hubbard once said “there was no Christ”. He said that religion was created in 600 BC by people “using a piece of R6” implant. L Ron Hubbard also implied that Christ was a pedophile). Scientology is not tolerant of any other religion. It cant be because it goes against everything L Ron Hubbard teaches and he isnt wrong… is he? Ask yourself… why the cross? I know about the 8 points, but why not just 8 lines intersecting each other? Why use something that looks like a Christian cross? It is maybe to mislead people into thinking that Scientologists are in some way Christians?

* Scientologys deceptive marketing strategies used to lure you into the church to take courses intended to help you achieve your “full potential”. These include the “Free Personality Test”, that always points out problems they can help you with if you paid them, and through frontline organizations such as WISE, ABLE, The Way to Happiness and Applied Scholastics which introduces potential members (including school age children) to the teachings of L Ron Hubbard and his made up terminology (which requires a Scientology dictionary to understand). Ask yourself… why “courses”, books and videos and lectures that you have to pay for? Why not just teach the religion for free in churches? Why deceive people?

* The death of a Scientologist Lisa McPherson while in the care of the Church. The Church settled this case out of court. Why?

* The suicide of Noah Lottick who jumped from the roof of a building because he had no more money to give the Church. There have been many others like Noah, including L Ron Hubbards own son, that have taken their own lives because of conflicts the church.

* Criminal activities committed on behalf of the Church and directed by Church officials such as Operation Freakout and Operation Snow White in which L Ron Hubbards wife was sent to prison.

* Conflicting statements about L. Ron Hubbards life, in particular false accounts of Hubbards education (he flunked out of George Washington University and never attended Princeton), credentials (he was never a Civil Engineer nor a Nuclear Scientist), military career (he was never a WWII Hero. In fact, he was decommissioned twice, once for accidentally ordering his ship to fire upon Mexico – It wasnt until he created the Sea Org that he gave himself the title of “Commodore” and made everyone wear naval uniforms that he finally achieved his dream of being a great naval officer) and lastly his great expeditions (2 failed attempts one trying to make a movie and the other searching buried gold). He also abandoned his first wife and children while he went on these “adventures”, cheated on his wife, committed bigamy, tried to kidnap his daughter from his second wife and was himself on medication at the time of his death. If the man lied about himself… and is a “great” Science Fiction writer… ask yourself, can you really trust him to tell you the truth? Why did all his explorations and accomplishments stop when he after founding the Church?

All-in-all, Scientology is based on lies and the ego of one man. It is a scam in global proportions.

Question it. Question everything the church tells you. Find your own truth.

Terryeo
20 February 2008 at 18:56

To Critics: I believe it is inappropriate to widely post the John Atack lawsuit. The link is a hand typed reproduction with many clerical errors.

Mr Hubbard voiced what many would prefer, A Civilization without criminals and war. Other voices have used somewhat different words, but the spirit of his statement lives in democracies everywhere.

will smith
20 February 2008 at 19:07

I take it operation snow white was also a clerical error.

Infact, maybe all of these are clerical errors.

OPERATION SNOW WHITE -the infiltration of the united states government by up to 5000 agents in 136 government agencies such as the IRS, foreign embassies and consulates, as well as private organizations critical of Scientology.

OPERATION FREAKOUT - a plan to have a public critic of Scientology, one Paulette cooper imprisoned or committed to a mental institution. And whose methods included the attempt to frame her for bomb threats to an Arab consulate.

Until challenged in court, scientology claimed their device, known as an E METRE, was capable of curing sickness and disease. 'Hmm interesting'

In 1978, the churches founder L ron hubbard was convicted of fraud by the French government in absentia.

In 1988 the government of spain arrested the then president of Scientology and ten others for coercion, fraud and violating labor laws. Said president was freed on bail at the cost of one million dollars, and of course to prove his innocence proceeded to flee the country.

In 1992 Scientology became the only religion in Canada to be convicted of breaching the public trust. 'Oh dear.'

In 1999, the greek wing of the church of scientology was ordered liquidated as "an organization with totalitarian structures and trends, which despises man, aims at power and money, teaches the survival of the powerful and ruthless, applies dangerous methods without preventing the possibility of suicide of its members, brainwashing them and corroding its opponents' reputations." Why its like an abridged biography!

In 2000 a french government report described Scientology as an extremely dangerous organization which violated human dignity and called for Scientology to be dissolved.

In the united kingdom the church is accused of 'grooming' officers of the london police with gifts worth thousands of pounds.

As we speak, based on the results of a detailed investigation, the Belgian government is planning to prosecute the church of Scientology for blackmailing, swindling members, breaking trade and privacy laws, unlawfully practicing medicine and forming a criminal organization. ' this sounds familiar.

The german government, considering scientology as being in the pursuit of anti constitutional goals in an aggressively fierce manner is moving to ban it outright. 'Never underestimate the german nations sense of deja vu.

These are not our charges, these are the charges of governments, of entire nations. In every land which has stood up to scientology the same pattern of crimes reveals itself in brilliant if oftentimes disturbing splendor. Blackmail, coercion, breach of privacy, acts undermining the constitution of the respective state via infiltration into government offices. While the common man toils with an expectation that such threats to his wellbeing are being handled at the highest level,the truth is that in believing so they toil in ignorance.

Anon 8649
20 February 2008 at 20:02

Another press release touted as my personal experience... blah blah blah. Now Mr. Eckersley go clear the word touted.

anoynymause
20 February 2008 at 21:07

Simply by quoting this very article, I can point to a strong fallacy:

"... where the able can prosper and honest beings can have rights,..."

So, you're saying disabled people are not allowed to have rights?

This is, in fact, exactly what the church is saying.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=332cQhov_d4

Here is a testimony of a woman in Halifax, Nova-Scotia, who was told that her son, a disabled man, was a "Suppressive Person" and that she should sever all ties with him for that simple reason; that he was disabled. This is after paying them 100$.

THE CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY IS A CRIMINAL ORGANISATION WHICH PRACTICES DISCONNECTION AND ABUSES ITS MEMBERS ALL MENTALLY, PHYSICALLY AND MONETARILY.

clambaka
20 February 2008 at 22:14

“a civilisation without insanity, without criminals and without war, where the able can prosper and honest beings can have rights, and where man is free to rise to greater heights”.

Just so long as nobody outside the 'church' excercises THEIR rights to religious freedom or God forbid, freedom of speech...but then if they do, we can simply accuse them of rape, murder and anything else we can think of?! nice religion.

I am frankly astonished that a Magistrate and Justice of the Peace would make such foundless accusations against a fellow human being simply because they disagreed with his beliefs.

Unfortunately, this sort of behaviour is positively promoted by the 'church' of scientology.

Any wonder then, that a group of people has decided to remain anonymous in their outrage if this is what you get for disagreeing?

beebee
20 February 2008 at 23:32

Yeah, you are right Terryeo. It's not nice to go around discrediting people, is it? It really isn't nice to dig up indiscretions from the past and displaying them for everyone to see.

Your comment is pretty amusing coming from someone who makes a constant practice of it on sites critical of the CoS.

curiouser
21 February 2008 at 03:07

I've become curious how all of these negative claims are backed up by FBI documents, etc. and while I wouldn't put it past even the FBI to document bogus claims and of course documents placed on the internet can be easily altered but the ones I have seen do not support in of these negative claims unless you simply agree to such. I'm also curious as to how many of the attacks on Scientology include a plug for the benefits of psychotropic drugs even amidst the latest news that the latest shooter had been on a cocktail of three different prescription psychiatric drugs. I find it even more curious that most if not all of the shooters over the years had a history of prescription psychiatric drugs but we don't have protests against psychiatric institutions and psychopharmaceuticals. Even more curious is the fact that Scientology is probably not the loudest voice against psycotropic drugs but they are the ones being attacked for being against them. What I don't find curious though is that somewhere behind a protest against religion there is someone who is secretly orchestrating it and who is not only an atheist but has crimes(not just internet hacking) to hide and it's thus no surprise that Anonymous is anonymous as if they are actually afraid of the Church of Scientology.

A Nodding Mouse
21 February 2008 at 03:31

Is that all you've got, "Curiouser"? Personal smears with no evidence from Scientology flacks? Speaking of fear, not one of you that complain about people posting anonymously have EVER given your real names. Who are you, "Curiouser"? What are you hiding from? How much have spent on the courses so far? If you tried to leave the COS, what could they blackmail you with?

Why are YOU anonymous?

Why are YOU afraid?

anoynymause
21 February 2008 at 03:37

curiouser: you sound very much like a scientologist; accusing strangers of crimes, claiming that all school-shooters were taking psychiatric medicine (wouldn't they need the drugs considering they were so unstable to begin with?), and not being able to properly construct paragraphs.

Anonymous's qualms go much further than their dissidence with Psychiatry. Anonymous believes that their history of illegal activities (such as their infiltrations, blackmailing, and conning people), their lack of accountability, their suspicious and federally unaccounted actions and so forth, are the reasons they should be dismantled. Why did Lisa McPherson die in their care? Why does it cost hundreds of thousands of dollars to learn about this Church's belief-system? Why are they tax-exempt while they act like a company, through their lawsuit, sellings and business-like fronts?

You say you've been doing your research, but this is obviously not true. lern2google

AnyAnonymous
21 February 2008 at 15:37

I would also like to point out at this time that Terryeo has been banned from wikipedia for abusive practices:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Terryeo

stewart
21 February 2008 at 17:47

To "will smith" -

You are very good at picking selected datums, twisting them and presenting them such a way as to thoroughly misrepresent the situation.

Cases in point:

- You cite the German government's well-known viewpoint, but why not also mention that in all the years the German government has had Scientology under surveillance, NOT ONE crime was discovered - not so much as a parking ticket. Why not also mention the US governments annual critcism of the German government for this waste of taxpayer's money?

- You cite the viewpoint of one department in the French government, but why not also mention that the French government had a list which includes the Hare Krishna movement, Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons and Baptists. This was all the work of one religious bigot.

- You cite an example where Scientology "is accused of ..." - but fail to point out that accusations are meaningless as validity, as anyone can accuse anyone of anything - doesn't make it true.

- You cite the situation in Spain, but fail to mention the whole court case was overturned and Scientology was completely and utterly absolved of all accusations.

stewart
21 February 2008 at 17:55

To "Been There",

I can nearly agree with you when you say "Question It".

Except I go further and say "question absolutely everything in authority".

How about questioning the sources of the "information" you cite? Why do you believe the hotch-potch of twists and lies you quote?

Or perhaps you don't - perhaps you forward it precisely because it's defamatory without a care for its truth.

Why does your questioning of authority not include questioning big pharma and psychiatry?

Why does your questioning not include taking your body into an org to actually see for yourself?

beebee
21 February 2008 at 18:00

Curiouser, what is with your obsession with psychiatry? You always try to steer conversations that way. This has really has nothing to do with psychiatry, there are many anons who agree that psych has gone to far, but we don't think that baby should be thrown out with the bathwater as there has been quite a few useful advancements and studies conducted by the psychiatric fields. We feel the same about Scientology, there is some useful stuff but we think that some things have gone too far.

Thinking that we are employed by shrinks or the german government is tinfoil hat lunacy! There is nobody orchestrating anything, but you can go on believing that if it makes you feel better in some twisted way. The truth is, the CoS has a nasty reputation and behavior like yours towards critics only makes it worse!

Attacking people just makes you guys come off looking like bullies, people don't like being "handled." Instead of attacking critics, why not help convince your church to take the necessary measures to improve it's reputation and gain the trust of the people?

And your whole thing with the FBI - honey, I'm afraid your tinfoil hat is on a bit too tight. Please consider that there are things you are being sheltered from by the CoS. We are not YOUR enemy, that's just what they've told you to protect themselves from having to answer to accusations. I know you want to believe them since the experience has been good for YOU, but there many unsatisfied customers and the rest of us have questions, concerns, or find the organization shady and just don't trust it. That doesn't make anyone guilty of anything, that just shows the cautious tendency of our society.

Moochie
21 February 2008 at 19:14

Given the mountains of evidence showing $cientology's long history of actual crimes against individuals, organisations, and even nations, available to any who care to look, it surprises me that it is still allowed to operate anywhere. Perhaps the day of reckoning has come with this recent campaign to lift the lid on this pernicious cult's affairs and real modus operandi. There aren't enough rocks they can hide under.

Moochie
21 February 2008 at 19:27

AnyAnonymous -- thanks for that link. I suggest all readers who have been following this story take a look at

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Terryeo

for an excellent example of the shenanigans $cientologists get up to.

A Nodding Mouse
22 February 2008 at 00:30

All we want is a little honesty-something Kenneth couldn't provide before when he denied outright that Narconon had anything to do with Scientology: http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Narconon/sources/media/dm010397.h...

A Nodding Mouse
22 February 2008 at 00:41

Everyone should note that the pro-Scientology side has provided nothing but unsubstantiated stories about miracles, attempts to change the subject to psychiatry and smear campaigns, while the other side has provided news stories, scientific studies, and questions that are ignored.

hypermellow
22 February 2008 at 01:17

Scientology is a religion, as many unbiased religious scholars from around the world have proved to the satisfaction of courts from the USA to the EU to Australia.

Scientologists are leery of posting anything positive online as the Anonymous cyber-terrorists routinely show up within minutes and vomit all over their posts with the same tired lies, innuendo, and religious bigotry trotted out as if it were a debate.

The Scientology I know from 30 years of being a minister of it, believes that people are immortal spiritual beings, trapped in a cycle of birth and death, and that they have a lot of potential that isn't being realized by them. The Scientology services I have taken have helped me realize some of that potential as a spiritual being. We're not talking about science here. Can anything be more un-scientific than a discussion of the spiritual nature of man?

We despise psychiatry because they do not believe in man as a spirit at all - they started out studying the spirit of man "psych-ology" and within a few decades fell away to a flawed study of the mind, now it all seems to revolve around non-existent, pseudo-scientific brain chemistry.

Scientology is a religion and "anonymous" is anti-religion - it can't get much plainer or simpler than that.

A Nodding Mouse
22 February 2008 at 02:02

And using the name "hypermellow" while attacking people for not giving their real names isn't being hypocritical? Asking questions is being a "cyber-terrorist"? Giving a direct quote from Kenneth himself is a lie? You are right about one thing, and one thing only-there is no "science" in Scientology. There is only claptrap that you dare not reveal to your followers until they have invested too much financially and spiritually to dare back out. That is the other reason it costs so much to finally learn the truth about your church-the deep financial investment. You know that no one wants to admit that they have blown over $30,000 dollars and years of time and effort, just to learn about aliens being dropped into volcanoes.

Your weak attempt yet again to divert this conversation from the misdeeds of your church to psychiatry has failed again.

lisamcpherson
22 February 2008 at 07:45

There's really no point in one person talking about Scientology working for him. If there's any science in scientology, you know that you cannot prove anything by one or many success examples. In a medical trials, even those taking dummy pills may improve. You just need one counter example to disprove Scientology tech. How do you explain away Lisa McPherson's death? She has no physically illness while being taken into CoS care. She ended up dead in horrible circumstances.

Moochie
22 February 2008 at 15:33

Charming -- all we get from a few Co$ PR lackeys is the same well-rehearsed malodorous dross we've all seen a million times. Like their "tech", their thinking is stuck in the 1950s.

There are mountains of real evidence pertaining to this scam. People who are interested will be quite able to separate the facts from the disinformation put out by the Co$'s PR machine.

will smith
22 February 2008 at 16:44

Take it up with wikipedia stewie.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientology_controversy

OHH LORDY! look at all them cited sources.

In regard to spain

'In December 2001, a Madrid court acquitted 15 persons of charges of illicit association and tax evasion. The charges arose from a fraud complaint against Church of Scientology offices Dianetica and Narconon and the subsequent arrest of Scientology International President Heber Jentzsch and 71 others at a 1988 convention in Madrid. Scientology representatives asserted that the indictment against Jentzsch, who was not part of the trial, was religiously based; officials denied this assertion. At the prosecutor’s recommendation, the court dismissed the case against Jentzsch in April 2002.'

You played the religion card buddy.

Also, forgive me for not paying attention, but you neglected to refute several of the situations i mentioned? Greece, you naughty boys caught red handed with your hands in the cookie jar, having plans of an airforce base. Naughty naughty! Canada. MOAR NAUGHTYNESS.

And your attempt to deny operation snow white is as bizarre as nazis denying the holocaust. There are mountains... MOUNTAINS of documents regarding this.

Listen man, what you don't get , or if you are OSA what you don't care about, is that we don't care about your religious beliefs. You can believe whatever you like. No one cares. But when the operations of your church get into naughty situations like the above, again and again, people will start to want explanations beyond the laughable idea that the fbi made it all up.

If scientology tomorrow dropped disconnection, fair game, rpf and children's rpf , they would be heading in the right direction. But as it stands, the way scientology operates, and as the truth of it is exposed to larger and larger degrees, scientology is going to find itself backed into a corner by the truth, with nowhere to go.

OOPS! Looks like you boys done it again!

http://www.haaba.com/news/2008/01/21/7-79014/french-scientol...

The internet is done with you. The internet is going to stop you, or force your reformation to comply with basic human rights. The time when you could survive by playing the religion card, or relying on the apathy of the masses has passed. The time when you had to deal with a tiny handful of critics you could fair game has passed.

With each day, more and more people are becoming aware of the truth, more and more people , driven by that basic human curiosity, will read upon scientology until they are compelled to do their part in stopping it.

On a final note, you say this

"question absolutely everything in authority".

And yet if you did that stewie if you questioned or even were revealed to be thinking in a scientology sec check that you questioned any practice of scientology, your ass would be in the Rehabilitation Project Force in a heartbeat. And you know it.

Thats your freedom. I pity you.

stewart
22 February 2008 at 17:17

Sorry will smith - you're making me yawn now.

will smith
22 February 2008 at 18:31

Good heavens. Your reaction, as a scientologist, to a post about the kidnapping of a woman, who upon recovery had to be hospitalised is to yawn? That does not sound very much in keeping with scientology's humanitarian public image.

EPIC FAIL OSA EPIC FAIL.

Alexander Graham Cracker
22 February 2008 at 21:28

Stewart, your words are as empty as your soul.

Mankind ill needs a savior such as you.

And, Stewart, I'd like to take this moment to speak to you, personally. Why are you doing this for the church? Please, off the record, answer me truthfully. Are you doing it for the auditting credits? Are you doing it to get in good with Miscavige and the guys upstairs? Are you afraid NOT to do it? Are you doing it out of some religious fervor for the church?

I'm curious you see, I wish to know what would incite a person to sling baseless accusations and cite opinions with absolutely no scientific proof and MOUNTAINS of proof against. Do you enjoy this? Or are you just too scared to leave?

April 12th. We will be there for you and all those who wish to escape the clutches of this oppressive church.

excultmember
23 February 2008 at 06:24

Mr. Eckersley, you've been a magistrate and therefore I might expect you have some skills in critical thinking. The Church of Scientology is a complex organization with many paradoxes. The main paradox is that they preach "freedom of thought" or "try it out first, then believe what you want", whereas the organization truly and faithfully practices "believe what I say, and nothing else". Those books for beginners such as The Way to Happiness are very cleverly written so as not to conflict with other people's beliefs and ideals. Once you get a little deeper into Scientology, you'll discover that your faith in The Way to Happiness has been betrayed.

Plups
23 February 2008 at 14:50

Stewart, in case you miss my comment on a previous thread, here it is:

Stewart,

the "research" article to which you refer is another Scientology publication. The Foundation for Advancements in Science and Education is a Scn organisation. You can read more about it here: http://www.xenu-directory.net/documents/corporate/990s-fase....

Stewart, you sound like a decent person. If so, I'm sure you have some questions about Scientology and about what you're being told. I hope you'll take the opportunity to read extensively, beyond what is "authorised" reading. If Scientology is true, then the "Church" has nothing to fear from you being educated.

Dark Pan
24 February 2008 at 00:11

Look at that.... see Scientology haters popping up like leaches on a healthy body, excuse me, article. Hail Anonymous, you one person trying to emulate "many", you are abusing democratic principles to stir up hate and crime. Disgusting. Kudos, Mr. Kenneth Eckersley, for this article. It is so seldom that real Scientologists speak up.

beebee
24 February 2008 at 00:57

Sure Dark Pan, I guess you also believe the 9000+ people standing outside your churches were employed by german psychologists too, huh? Lets see how many they hire for the ides of March.

I think your tinfoil hat may be on a little too tight, sweetie.

BritishAirman
02 March 2008 at 11:56

You might like to read the lesson, Sunday March 02:

http://www.markatscotland.blogspot.com

seaview64
15 March 2008 at 23:50

I subscribe to those aims too!

I believe this postulate is possible for our society!

We are making it come true and no matter the obstacles we face, we are pushing through to the ultimate victory on that front.

The witch hunters will have to confront some of their own fears and worst nightmares but once they're through the initial steps, hopefully the majority of them will handle their own crimes against humanity.