The Faith Column

4 comments from readers

mama pajama
29 January 2008 at 18:04

The article above is clearly a statement of faith from a Christian perspective. There is no connection to Jewish spirituality present in the above narrative. While he may be of Jewish heritage, he does not speak of the Jewish method of direct connection to God, but describes belief in a Jew as a deity, and that is complete heresy to Torah observance. He is not representing any Jewish belief from any Jewish group on planet earth. There is no schism from within Judaism over this issue at all.

Yet because he was born from Jewish parents despite knowing nothing about the Jewish religion, he is a prize for the Jews for Jesus organization. a "real" Jew they've indoctrinated to teach Jews how fully Jewish he is in his Christian belief.

Jews are a nation people, Israel (tribal origin) bound by an eternal covenant of the faith (religion) of Judaism. We are like a huge family and only the family can determine who is a member of it.

Now let me explain.

The Jewish people are considered both a nation and a religion. Our connection is primarily one of faith (religion) through the covenant of Israel, yet membership is also conferred by birth, through matrilineal descent .One may also become a part of the nation Israel by adoption of the faith of Judaism and formal procedures of conversion.

One who converts to Judaism is considered as FULLY Jewish as one born Jewish and their children are Jews. This has been the case since the times of the Torah.

However one can be a Jew and not belong to both. One may technically be a Jew if their mother is a Jew, but apostate to the covenant of Israel and no longer be considred a member of the nation.

There are different Jewish cultures that have developed over the millenia in Diaspora lands as well as from the Mizrahi (from the Middle East and North Africa) The Sephardi (Spanish) Ashkenazi, (German, Polish, Russian and other Eastern European) are all slightly different, even within those three designations as to cultural practices and foods, but it is the faith of Jews to God alone and covenant that binds them all together as Klal Yisrael.

We are Klal Yisrael, the community of Israel, and have a shared " destiny" and history, while still having developed throughout history, many DIFFERENT Jewish cultures developed in the Diaspora. The Diaspora refers to the Jewish presence outside of Israel after the destruction of the First and Second Temple periods and the Bar Kochba revolt.

The Jewish nation began as a group of tribes and our connection to one another is still from the perspective of a tribal nation. One may join through adoption of the covenant or one may be born into it.

One born a member of the tribal covenant nation Israel ( Jewish) may not be observant or even believe in God and they’re still a full member, a Jew. They may not be a good or active member but they’ve not renounced membership. Now, one born into the covenant may become apostate to it through rejection of the covenant by adoption of another belief contradictory to the covenant and still be considered a Jew, but for all intents and purposes, they're not given the status of a member. They don't give up their heritage, but they can choose to reject it and separate themselves from it. According to Jewish law they're not counted in a minyan, can't be buried in a Jewish cemetary, cannot be given honors to go up to read Torah at a synagogue, cannot be counted as a Jew under Israel’s law of return and may not speak for the Jewish people. They CAN however, return ( teshuvah) without formal conversion should they so desire.

This is the status of Mr. Pacht. It is not my personal opinion that makes this so.

The only way one who isn't born to a Jewish mother can become Jewish is through adoption of the faith, dedication to living AS a Jew through the eternal covenant and the formal steps of conversion. Then the children of a Jewish woman who converts is considered every bit as Jewish as one whose ancestry came from Sarah. A convert TO Judaism who becomes fully a Jew does not have the option of becoming apostate to Judaism and still being considered Jewish. You don't have atheist Jewish converts.

Jews are in NO way a RACE..other than as members of the human race. For those of you who want to claim Judaism doesn't accept converts as fully Jewish, how about Ruth in the Bible? She was a member of a nation that was condemned to be separate from God for their evil. However, she was a righteous woman who converted and adopted the faith of Israel and was the ancestor of King David. The New Testament depicts her as being an ancestor of Jesus, too. I like to bring this up when some Christians want to declare that converts aren't "real Jews" or that Jews are a race. One cannot change a *race* ( And Jewish identity is something that isn't up to them to decide one way or another anyway)

It is Jewish law alone, not Christianity or any other entity that determines the status of who and what is Jewish.

One cannot be Jewish and Christian at the same time. One may be an apostate Jew who is Christian. A Jew who converts to Islam is a Muslim. A Jew who converts to Christianity is a Christian. A Christian who converts to Islam isn’t a Christian for Mohammed. A Baptist who converts to Catholocism isn’t a Baptist for the Pope and a Jew who converts to Christianity isn’t a Jew for Jesus.

You can become a member of a tribe or nation if you meet the criteria of citizenship. And the covenant people, Klal Yisrael, remain as in the earliest days of the covenant..a nation.

Am Yisrael Chai.

revsfgutmann
31 January 2008 at 11:08

What an inconsistent (but Orthodox) reply from "Mama pyjama." He says that Christians "worship a Jew as deity" which he says is a complete heresy to Torah observance. What does he make of Psalm 45:6, where "Elohim" is used of the Davidic King? Or Psalm 82 which uses "Elohim" to describe "children of the Most High" (v. 6). Psalm 2 speaks of "the LORD and His anointed" (v. 2), and of the King, "You are My Son" (v. 7), with the final verse saying "Kiss the Son, lest He be angry.." (v. 12). What does he make of Isaiah 7:14-and the Son called Immanuel," or Isaiah 9:6, "His Name shall be called, "Wonderful, Counsellor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace" or Micah 5:2, where the Messiah (oof Bethlehem) is said to have "origins of old, everlasting?" Or the Davidic King, "lowly, and riding on an ass, and a colt, the foal of an ass" (Zech. 9:14). This verse also states that this King "has salvation!" Who is the One of whom it says, "They shall look upon Me Whom they have pierced" (Zech. 12:10)? Whose feet will "stand on the Mount of Olives" (Zech. 14:4). And if you don't like the idea of a Jew being deity (Deity), what about the whole "house of David shall be as God.!" (Zech. 12:8).

There is SO MUCH more beside this. Mama pyjama takes Rabbinical authority as the highest authority when he states that to Jewish identity is through maternal lineage. I thought God was the "God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob" rather than of "Sarah, Rebecca and Rachel." The same Rabbinical authority that once bestowed the title of Messiah on Bar Kochba, but despises the New Testament claim that God Himself came to save His people, and to be a Light to the Goyim." You can shower words like apostate on Messianic Jewish believers, it won't change their love for Isrtael, fellow Jews and their Messiah, Jeshuah! - from Ishtov Keter

mama pajama
31 January 2008 at 18:41

I would like to respond to the points raised by revsfgutmann. Nevertheless, I wish to address two other small details first. To begin with, I realize pajama is spelled pyjama in the UK, but when someone gives his or her screen name, the polite way to address him or her is to spell it correctly when it is right in front of you. Please address me by the name I gave. I am from the United States, pajama is a correct spelling here, and the name I chose. I am also a real mama, a Southern Jewish mama from Arkansas, so you may refer to me as a she.

Second, I am not Orthodox, but a third generation Reform Jew on my maternal side. My maternal Grandmother was Reform, my mother was raised Reform and both my brother and myself were raised Reform. My father, raised Orthodox, began attending Reform as a teenager. My knowledge of Judaism is from my Reform perspective of course, not from an Orthodox perspective. While I feel it is unnecessary to give my family history here to legitimize what I state, I realize that the comment addressed to me was done so in a manner to discredit me based on Orthodoxy. Jews for Jesus members often choose one of two tactics. Condemn Orthodox Jews as evil Pharisees or Reform like me as not really Jewish because we do not even observe as much “law” as the Messianic claims to observe. Either tactic is flawed. The Hebrew Christian Messianic observance of custom very often assigns idolatrous meaning to the ritual and their core belief of Jesus as deity, is violation of the core essence of Torah. I do not claim to be frum, but I did not leave Judaism for another faith, and Reform Judaism is poorly understood by most Messianic Hebrew Christians. I may be a “bad Jew” to some, but I am still a Jew according to any definition of Jewish law from any Jewish branch.

Although I respect Orthodox Jews, it is not a path I choose. The beliefs that I have given here are essentially the core beliefs of Judaism and are what people of the Jewish religion understand about Jewish law. That revsfgutmann would not recognize this is the first giveaway that the respondent knows very little about Jewish belief.

Now, revsfgutmann gave many passages and unless I wish to make this a massive essay, I believe I may not be able to fully address each one here but any I omit I will give a reference for anyone interested to peruse at their own leisure. Revsfgutmann reveals through the passages he posts here, that his or her understanding of the Tanakh has not come from the context, but has been through the lens of the New Testament.

Now let me address some of the mistranslated passages here:

(“Psalm 45:6, where "Elohim" is used of the Davidic King? “) --- I do not see the word Elohim in that passage. 6. Your arrows are sharpened, nations shall fall under you, in the heart of the king's enemies. Sorry, you are flat wrong here.

(“Or Psalm 82 which uses "Elohim" to describe "children of the Most High" (v. 6).”)---

This reveals your lack of knowledge of Hebrew grammar. I am not very good in Hebrew myself, but I am aware that the word elohim is also used to refer to angels and God. The root El meaning deity and the suffix IM denotes either plurality or importance. In every instance when Elohim refers to God, the grammar shows that the verb is a singular. When it refers to angels, the verb is plural. It is simple and the translation from the Hebrew reveals this. 6. I said, "You are angelic creatures, and all of you are angels of the Most High . That is the English translation. The Hebrew Bible perspective is that both humans and angels are created “in God’s image”. The difference is that angels were created immortal without free will (there is no fall of angels in the Tanakh ) and humans are created mortal with free will. We have potential for immortality but as Genesis indicated, when God said to replenish the earth and sent Adam and Eve from Gan Eden so they would not eat of the Tree of Life and BECOME as God and the angels, immortal. Humans do not die because of what Eve did, we die because we were created mortal.

(“Psalm 2 speaks of "the LORD and His anointed" (v. 2), and of the King, "You are My Son" (v. 7), with the final verse saying "Kiss the Son, lest He be angry.." (v. 12). “) --=

This is clearly from the Greek mistranslation into English and not from the Hebrew translated to English. There are many pages devoted to explaining this Christian misinterpretation of Psalms and I will just refer you to the Tanakh itself here. (Also, this is addressed at many Jewish websites)

http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/16223/jewish/C...

(“What does he make of Isaiah 7:14“) Do I REALLY need to address this long worn out explanation of the fact that Isaiah knew and correctly used the right word for virgin, “betulah” and the plural “ betulot” in his writings and if he intended to say virgin he would have said virgin rather than “ young woman”..almah? There are pages and pages of explanation of that mistranslation from the Greek, parthenos. Besides, this child is born in the next chapter. Isaiah is speaking of King Hezekiah, called a Counselor of God for his righteousness when he tore down all the idols, and he had the temple repaired, and he had everyone hear and learn the word of God from Torah. Even many modern Christian scholars acknowledge the goof on that one and now translate it correctly ( note this is from the NRSV) Look, the young woman is with child and shall bear a son, and shall name him Immanuel.

The Christian Old Testament is an adaptation of the Hebrew Bible. It has rearranged books, mistranslations, omissions, and mistakes throughout. It even makes the Latin word lucifer into a proper name when referring to the planet Venus (the morning star, Venus, represented by the Hebrew word heylel for a star) when Isaiah is insulting Nebuchadnezzar as a god/man (ironic huh?) They assign that mistranslation from the Latin to English as justification for a concept of a fallen angel, which is also foreign to Judaism. I will end up writing a book here to explain each passage.

My comments were not to try to debate Christian VERSUS Jewish belief! Revsfgutmann would have me to address Christian doctrine in a point by point debate rather than to address the claims that I make about Judaism speaking in one clear voice against this new form of evangelism to adopt that Christian belief and CALL IT JEWISH BELIEF. You are free to believe what you want about your Scriptures. You are quoting from the Christian Bible’s translations.

This was another major indication of the comments directed to me coming from a perspective outside of Judaism. A member of a “Messianic Jewish” church cannot be assumed to be an apostate Jew as well, because more than 80 percent of those who claim adherence were from other Protestant Christian denominations and have no Jewish ancestry to connect them to being Jewish by birth. Jews born to secular Jewish homes who are among the fold, are usually more familiar with the Christian perspective of Judaism from the New Testament than from Jewish belief

As to the rest of these verses, I shall simply give you a few links where you can begin to explore and learn the Hebrew translations and contextual meanings from the Tanakh. http://www.messiahtruth.org/ http://www.whatjewsbelieve.org/ http://jewsforjudaism.org/ I am sure that at one of them, you will find each one of these mistranslations explained in full from the context. If I were to address each one of those individually here myself this comment will be longer than most articles that appear here.

Every one of those passages requires a combination of mistranslation or cherry picking out of context. The concepts that are being imposed on those texts here have nothing to do with the contextual reading and I respectfully request anyone to read them in context from a Tanakh. Here is one http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/63255/jewish/T...

Moreover, less you wish to criticize it because it comes from an Orthodox web site, I will remind you that Jews all use the same Tanakh. We have the same Torah scrolls in our synagogues whether Orthodox or Reform. Here is a line-by-line Hebrew to English translation of the Torah to begin your journey http://bible.ort.org/books/torahd5.asp

I notice that as is often the case, when the evangelic Christian wishes to attack Jewish belief and criticism of imposing Christian dogma as Judaism, it is often from the perspective of claiming that it is the decisions of Rabbinic Judaism or Rabbis that they have a problem with and not the Torah. Yet Rabbis in the Diaspora created a great many of the customs and rituals that the Jews for Jesus group teaches in their classes on Hebraic Roots, teach customs and rituals that. The majority of Jews living today are indeed descended from Rabbinic Judaism, the Pharisees, the group most demonized and misrepresented in the Christian New Testament from the historic Jewish perspective. Some of the very things that “Messianic Jews” believe come from that tradition. The resurrection of the dead is a belief of the Pharisees, not the Sadducees whose doctrine has largely disappeared. That is only one example of many I could give. So trying to find fault with my commentary by dismissing it as a narrow Orthodox or fundamentalist viewpoint of the Rabbis just does not work in any instance. You also write in a manner that reads also rather antisemitic in that regard, you either clearly do not know enough about Judaism to recognize this or you wish to misrepresent Judaism. I cannot assume which it is because I do not know you. In either instance, it is a clearly mistaken method to dismiss the UNANIMOUS Jewish voice of World Jewry on this issue.

Now, there are some small groups that are Jewish ( and some Rabbinic Jews do not see them as such ) such as the Karaites, and the Beta Yisrael largely from North Africa and the Middle East, who determine lineage by paternal nature. Other than the lineage issue, they agree about the apostasy issue if one has left the covenant and worships in a manner heretical to Torah. Here is one reference you can clearly see that the Karaites are also in agreement on this issue http://www.karaite-korner.org/karaite_faq.shtml I have had discussions with Karaites and they are in agreement with all four major branches of Judaism with regard to Jewish law over this issue. This is not a schism within Judaism but an assault on it. That much is clear to Jews all over the world. The Chief Sephardic Rabbi in Israel and the Chief Ashkenazi Rabbi of Israel as well as the Chief Rabbi of the UK and every Jewish Rabbinic Council from Orthodox, Conservative, Reform, Reconstructionst, Progressive, and Humanist agrees. I could give you pages worth of position statements over the past 20 years but I am not here to write a textbook. I have collected many such statements over the years. I will give you just one for now.

In 1993, the Task Force on Missionaries and Cults of the Jewish Community Relations Council of New York (JCRCNY) issued a statement which has been endorsed by the four major Jewish denominations: Orthodox Judaism, Conservative Judaism, Reform Judaism, and Reconstructionist Judaism, as well as national Jewish organizations. Based on this statement, the Spiritual Deception Prevention Project at the JCRCNY stated:

On several occasions leaders of the four major Jewish movements have signed on to joint statements opposing Hebrew-Christian theology and tactics. In part they said: "Though Hebrew Christianity claims to be a form of Judaism, it is not ... It deceptively uses the sacred symbols of Jewish observance ... as a cover to convert Jews to Christianity, a belief system antithetical to Judaism ... Hebrew Christians are in radical conflict with the communal interests and the destiny of the Jewish people. They have crossed an unbridgeable chasm by accepting another religion. Despite this separation, they continue to attempt to convert their former co-religionists." (This copied from Wikipedia ..it’s not the best source but quickest for today ..it is available elsewhere too ) Now back to my own words:

Thankfully, it is also becoming clear to many Christian groups that this movement is creating discord and mistrust as well as bigotry and misrepresenting their path as well. More are coming forward to speak out against a hijacking of Christianity’s Great Commission with deceptive methods as well:

“ The Interfaith Conference of Metropolitan Washington, an umbrella organization that includes Muslims, Jews, and church groups from the Roman Catholic, Methodist, Baptist, Lutheran and Presbyterian churches, has condemned Jews for Jesus as promoting activities "harmful to the spirit of interreligious respect and tolerance." The conference is also opposed to religious proselytizing in general, though evangelism is an important tenet of Christian theology due to the Great Commission. The conference also denounces the group's "deceptive proselytizing efforts", stating that when practiced on "vulnerable populations" such as the young or the elderly, these efforts are "tantamount to coerced conversions."“ (from Wikipedia…there are many more on this article that also gives “their” side, too at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews_for_Jesus#_note-JCRCNY

Please note, when you accept faith in another religion that is contradictory to Judaism, you can no longer honestly represent yourself as a part of the Jewish people. The gates of repentance and return (teshuvah) are always open to you should you wish to come home.

If Christianity speaks to your heart, then recognize that you have chosen to leave the covenant nation of your own free will. Jews are not out trying to convert Christians or condemn Christians for your faith in Jesus. That is not what Jews do. Christians are considered Noahides and merit blessing in the world to come through a path of Righteousness, as are all Gentiles. Torah teaches that. Misleading others about Jewish belief is not a path of righteousness. If your love of the nation Israel is true and great you will recognize that you are displaying behavior that is harmful to it, you will seek teshuvah so that you can honestly then declare yourself as a member of the covenant nation Israel. I clearly said it is not my opinion that designates Jews who adopt Christianity as apostates, it is Jewish law and your own choice to leave it that has placed you outside of Jewish life. These are the paths open to you. Right now, you are sitting on the edge of a very sharp fence and throwing stones at both sides. Isn’t it time to get off the fence? Be a Jew or be a Christian. You cannot live both paths simultaneously. The Southern Baptist Convention survived before Martin Rosen, an ordained Baptist pastor who once worked for the American Board of Missions to the Jews , renamed and created the Jews for Jesus organization and they will likely survive if it disappears (or more than likely will rename itself yet again) when enough honest people, both Jew and Gentile, come to recognize the deceptions.

You might wish to look at the historic perspective on this, too. There has been an unbroken assault on Judaism since its beginnings by one group after another. We have always been in the minority. Nevertheless, look who has gone the wayside and look who is still here. The Jews. Am Yisrael Chai!

mama pajama
31 January 2008 at 23:15

Lest I am called to task as well for omitting that in my Reform tradition, one who is born to a Jewish father and a non-Jewish mother is also accepted as Jewish IF they are raised ONLY in the Jewish religion. Even if one is born to a Jewish mother and raised in another faith, the Reform branch does not even accept that person as a Jew. At least the Orthodox gives the option of the designation of apostate. I thought I was being more than fair to present the traditional option of teshuvah rather than the Reform condition of conversion.