Nelson Jones

Belief, disbelief and beyond belief

Mitt Romney's religion

Is Mormonism a "cult" or just the great American religion?

By Nelson Jones Published 10 October 2011 14:23

Four years after his last presidential bid, Mitt Romney remains perhaps the most credible -- certainly the most centrist -- of the declared Republican candidates. His main problem is that he comes across as rather boring. Try as he might to avoid the subject, however, some continue to hold his Mormon faith against him. In the latest incident last Friday, the evangelical pastor Robert Jeffress, friend of the Texas governor (and Romney's rival), Rick Perry, claimed that Romney was "not a Christian" and that his election would "give credibility to a cult".

Bigotry or not, there are still many Americans -- especially among the Republican Party's conservative evangelical base -- who would agree with Jeffress. Mormonism derives from Christianity and Mormons call themselves Christians. Nowadays, it's too large and mainstream to be sensibly regarded as a "cult". But it has doctrines that are radically different from those of mainstream Christianity; and that, for some critics, is enough.

It's easy -- too easy, perhaps, and certainly tempting -- to make fun of some of the tenets of the Latter Day Saints. Mormons are expected to believe that their first prophet, Joseph Smith, discovered golden plates, inscribed in an unknown ancient script, in a hillside in upstate New York in the 1820s; that he translated them with the help of magic stones, discovering them to contain an alternative Bible; and that Jesus visited America after the crucifixion for the purpose of taking his message to the descendants of ancient Israelite tribes who had lived there for centuries, forgotten by history and unknown to modern archaeology.

Or one could mention the direct influence of Freemasonry on the rituals that Smith created for his temple; or the planet Kolob, which plays a minor part in Mormon theology; or practices that seem strange to outsiders -- baptism of the dead, sacred underwear and, in former times (and still in some dissident groups today), polygamy. The atheist blogger Greta Christina described her visit to the Mormon Temple in Salt Lake City earlier this year as "a rollercoaster ride of hilarity and horror". The effect, she writes, "was to make me think, even more strongly than I had before: This religion is batshit crazy."

None of this is Romney's fault, any more than the scientific unlikelihood of transubstantiation, the bodily assumption of Mary or (for that matter) the virgin birth are the fault of practising Catholics who might run for office. He was born a Mormon; he did not choose it. But Mormonism is vulnerable, as older religions are not, to historical questioning. Its doctrines, laid down in the 19th century rather than the 1st, have as yet not acquired the unquestioning respect given to those of more venerable age.

It is Mormonism's misfortune but also its fascination that almost everything is known that can be known about its creation and subsequent growth. Not for the Latter Day Saints the "mysterious veil" that, according to Gibbon, was cast over the infancy of the Church. Nor even the widespread illiteracy of pre-Islamic Arabia, or the centuries of myth-making that has enveloped and obscured the historical Buddha. Instead, we can read contemporary newspaper reports that dismissed Joseph Smith's golden tablets as a fraud; court records accusing the prophet of financial irregularities; or Mark Twain's sneer -- unconstrained by fear of speaking blasphemy or giving offence -- that the Book of Mormon was "chloroform in print".

Given such public and controversial beginnings, Mormonism's sustained success over the better part of two centuries seems all the more remarkable. It is not fully accepted into the pantheon of great world religions and remains somewhat marginal even in the land of its birth, but then it took Christianity 300 years to go from being an obscure cult to dominating the entire Roman empire. Mormonism must have had something going for it. It can't just be "batshit crazy".

The religion's strength, I think, comes from its quintessentially American nature. It is almost the theological expression of America itself -- as baseball is its sporting expression, or Coca-Cola its liquid one.

Its history, first of all, is the story of the frontier and of settlement. Just as the United States is a country of immigrants, many of whom came fleeing persecution in their own country, so the early Mormons were chased from town to ever remoter town until, under the leadership of Brigham Young, they established their own mini-America in Utah. In Salt Lake City, they recreated the ideals of the pilgrim fathers, establishing a new and godly community far from the corruption of the world. It was an achievement that called for all the great American virtues of self-reliance, ruggedness, family values, courage and fortitude.

It's also the story of a second America: the entrepreneurial, corporate, rich, self-confident country that exported its values across the world. Smith and Young bequeathed their church a structure that has endured to this day, one that despite its apostolic and ecclesiastical titles resembles that of a large multinational corporation. Which, indeed, is what it has become; although its product is salvation, rather than soft drinks or iPods.

Mormonism continues to go with the grain of US culture. There's a thick streak of old American puritanism through the Mormon religion, with its prohibition of alcohol and even caffeine. Yet it is just as American in its suburban conformism, encouragement of hard work and respectability. Its tradition of international missionary activity, moreover, gives the faith an outward-looking focus that contrasts with the insularity of the less attractive strands of American conservatism. These facts ought to be an electoral advantage, rather than a drawback for a politician.

It remains to be seen if Jeffress's attack or the lingering suspicion of Mormonism that it reflects will derail Romney's presidential campaign in 2012, as it may have done in 2008. If asked if a Mormon could become president, however, I'm tempted to reply: only in America.

Tags: Mormon Mitt Romney US Election 2012 Religion

More from Nelson Jones

88 comments

Fri, 2012-04-13 15:01 — donna (not verified)

Mormonism is a batshit crazy religion. It was and always has been based on a pack of lies. Who do I want for president? Anyone but a Mormon.

Sun, 2012-04-15 21:11 — Tyle Stelzig (not verified)

True, but as the article points out, no truer for Mormonism than for Catholicism (or any other Judeo-Christian sect). Adherence to *any* pack of lies seems damning for a presidential candidate.

Mon, 2012-04-09 04:40 — yiyuioyu (not verified)

Health insurance and Physical Conditioning - What exactly you want to Know
If you should are like us, you may have received counsel that leads you down the incorrect highway in regard to free trx workouts. An individual book claims a particular detail, your physical coach claims a further, together with the content pieces you discover on-line say yet an additional. Almost every day, it appears, there exists a brand new fitness trend that may be acquiring heaps of attention. You'll want to consider only a few of suggestions from all the trx suspension trainer around and apply them within a healthy and constructive manner. The more healthy your technique for your exercise routine, the greater constructive the influence from it will be. In this particular short article we are going to instruct you three things that it is advisable to know to acquire the healthiest trx suspension training system
plausible.
Regarding greater tummy muscle groups, take advantage of this workout program: do that just about every 2nd day so you might possibly get fantastic results. Identical to nearly every other muscle on your overall body, abdominal muscles require downtime. trx workout system is achievable if the muscle mass have time for you to relaxation. Your muscle mass is probably not desirable to determine in any respect will need to you an excessive amount; for this reason you will have to reasonable your abs muscle tissue exercise routines. In actual fact, it may possibly realistically make your muffin major much larger due to the fact you’ll be making muscle quicker than you're burning excessive fat.
The sneakers that you just don as you deliver the results out or very valuable. Trx Suspension Training System Exercises pros will convey the same message. It is a demanding issue to locate sneakers that will in shape accurately for all situations. If possible, get your footwear in the evening immediately after give good results. This can be whenever your ft are the most important. Your own private most desirable toe really should be 1 50 percent a terrific inches from a conclusion of your respective boot so you can in condition the right way. This provides your toes loads of space to wiggle.
The moment you'll have labored out, as well as your muscle tissues are sore, you have to stretch them. Likely from 1 activity to however a second is really a bad understanding. Most without a doubt, stretching wants to take place. There have already been numerous studies which may have conclusively proven during which expands at once completed following an activity aid muscles growth. The trx suspension system is actually stimulated because of the cooling down phase after a workout. The real limited crack amongst routines also presents you a brief time chill out, catch your breath and focus significantly more in the work out program that you are endeavor. It's important to get a break, so why don't you obtain a drink and rehydrate simultaneously? Just be mindful that breaks are advantageous.
It will be truly super simple to become trx trainer major match but most folks believe that that it will be challenging to accomplish.
For that matter, most of the time, the toughest aspect of receiving trx exercise equipmentmatch is choosing the route you must get to acquire there. The route you pick for physical health and fitness should be reliable for your personal overall body. It's a must to utilize the best Cheap Trx Straps. A great way to get going will be to get your doctors blessing on your own training session and start once you can.

Thu, 2011-10-13 06:54 — Mr. Divine (not verified)

Moses' first name was Dorothy.

Thu, 2011-10-13 07:28 — Quinn (not verified)

Hello, I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Days Saints, and am grateful for the peace and happiness it brings in my life, helping me to have a clear conscience before my Maker. I am also very grateful for a nation which allows religious freedom. I respect people who honor that freedom given to us by our forefathers, and ask each of you to do so as well. That's why america is great, we can choose to worship as we please.

Tue, 2011-10-11 21:25 — peter (not verified)

Well, Sir Michael, if you thought carefully, it would be 12,391, not your 12,390, since one must add to my 12,389 both the one espoused by the "religious" to whom I referred, and, if you are to be believed, the so-called "antitheism" religion. But I am of course not on your side, since religion for me is defined by the belief of truth for which there is no reason to believe it to be truth. But if you wish to use words in that non-standard way (instead of thinking), go ahead. Apparently now you have two kinds of mathematician, those who believe the truths of mathematics, and those who do not; etc..

Mon, 2011-10-10 22:00 — Nixon is Lord (not verified)

Why not disestablishment your own church? Why remain with Iran and Vatican City, the only places where clergy have an automatic place in the legislature? Fewer than 2 pc of you even bother to show up to Church of England churches on any given Sunday; why continue this pitiful farce of a "national church"?

Tue, 2011-10-11 21:51 — jws203

One of the trends I find "exceptional" about the USA today is the number of religious sects and cults participating directly in the electoral process.

The leading contender for the Republican nomination for President, Gov. Mitt Romney, is a Mormon, officially known as The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Nearly all mainstream Protestant Churches and the Catholic Church view Mormonism as a heretical sect.

Gov. Rick Perry of Texas began his Presidential campaign by organizing a “Christian Only” evangelical, and "Dominionist" prayer meeting called “The Response: a call to prayer for a nation in crisis.” “Dominionism” is the belief that holds the Holy Bible as dominant over laws made by man.

For an examination of the relationship between Gov. Perry and the controversial “New Apostolic Reformation” movement, see the Texas Observer’s article “Rick Perry’s Army of God” http://www.texasobserver.org/cover-story/rick-perrys-army-of-god. “The Response” was a gathering of the different tribes of American fundamentalism – Christian Zionists, prayer warriors, apostolic and prophetic types, etc. – under the umbrella of political and spiritual revival, see Rachael Maddow’s special report: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908//vp/44098787#44098787

Like Governor Perry, Congresswoman Michele Bachmann espouses a "Dominionist" religious perspective and spent her student years in law school studying the "dominionist" approach to society, law and government, see John Chait’s article in the New Republic: http://www.tnr.com/blog/jonathan-chait/90014/michelle-bachmanns-worldview.

Modern “Dominionism” is largely unknown to most Americans. The list of unknown schismatic sects, cults, groups, exotic beliefs and churches, which the contenders for the Republican nomination belong to or are in agreement with, is "exceptional." The religious fringe, it seems, has become the Protestant mainstream.

Today’s Republicans could be re-branded the “Christian Republican Party.” The center core of Protestant faith has migrated from “Liberal Protestantism” to an entrepreneurial-style, evangelist and fundamentalist faith, which votes heavily on the Republican Row. It was once believed that such sects originated mainly among the religiously neglected poor. Clearly, this is now no longer the case. It has been argued by social scientists that insecurity, differential status and anxiety characterize these religious movements. The effects of the Great Recession and the affects of geographic relocation and workplace displacement have contributed to a sense of anxiety and anomie among the American middle-class.

The German theologian Ernst Troeltsch, considered the major historian of sectarian religion, has characterized the psychological appeal of fundamentalist religious sects in a way that might appropriately be applied to extremist politics. A direct connection between the social roots of political and religious extremism has been observed in a number of countries. It was observed by the American sociologist S. M. Lipset, as early as the 1960s, in his seminal essay “Working Class Authoritarianism” that “rigid fundamentalism and dogmatism are linked to the same underlying characteristics, attitudes, and predispositions which find another outlet in allegiance to extremist political movements.”

Many western democracies have “Christian Democratic Parties,” the US, because it is “exceptional,” has a “Christian Republican Party.” The candidates for the Republican nomination have made their religious views of scripture known, by degrees. To discover what these candidates deeply and sincerely believe requires the investigative work and research.

The ascendancy of the “nouveau fundamentalist Protestant elite” to high leadership positions in the Republican Party needs to be understood as a serious step toward a profound redefinition of church and state in America. The ascendancy of hard-core chronic “know-nothing-ism” and “anti-intellectualism,” so eloquently written about by Columbia historian Richard Hofstadter, and sectarian belief systems, is undoubtedly "exceptional" for a modern mass political party with governmental responsibilities. While it is argued that Europe is experiencing a “crisis of faith,” the United States is experiencing a revivalism parallel with the Second Great Awakening of the 1800s.

The decline of mainstream Methodists, Presbyterians, Congregationalists and Episcopalians as forces affecting the direction of the Republican Party, has been statistically significant, and the rise of “Other Protestants,” and sects, has marked a realignment of voting patterns and political commitment.

Is it possible to image Presidential candidate John F. Kennedy organizing a 30,000 person “Catholics only” prayer service as a campaign launch? One of the famous quotes from Kennedy’s address to the Greater Houston Ministerial Association, during the 1960 national election, was, “I am not the Catholic candidate for President. I am the Democratic Party’s candidate for President who also happens to be a Catholic. I do not speak for my Church on public matters — and the Church does not speak for me.”

Tue, 2011-10-11 22:04 — Mr. Divine (not verified)

The good thing about Mormonism is that it makes people less reliant on stimulants. This is where it differs from 'mainstream' Christianity. Many people who are doped up to the eyeballs think they are Christians but are in fact substance abusers, and have all the mental and emotional baggage and trade offs that go with this. Mormons have an incredible energy and strength in comparison to other people. It's like a calm strength similar to clean living Muslims.

The other thing that distinguishes Mormonism is that they do not steal things or con people unlike members of other religions.

We might laugh at their beliefs and where they come from but as people they honest, trustworthy and industrious.

Mon, 2011-10-10 22:42 — Sir Michael (not verified)

One could almost be forgiven for thinking that a few people around here think that religious people should be excluded from public offices.

Atheistic fascism is becoming mainstream, as an atheist I find myself rather ashamed as well as dismayed at this turn of events.

Thu, 2011-10-13 10:10 — Mr. Divine (not verified)

Good on you Quinn, and I totally agree with you sentiments. The questions I would like to ask you is:

1. "How do you know for certain that Joseph Smith saw the gold plates?"
2. 'Do you think that the First Seal has arrived?'

Thu, 2011-10-13 10:48 — swatantra nandanwar

Its as plausible as the 'Sword in the Stone' as a route to kingship.
The danger lies when religion is brought into politics.
Everyone feared that Kennedy might be under the thumb of the Pope if elected, but his Catholicism never stopped Kennedy from breaking every moral code in the Book in his private and public life.
So lets give Mitt a chance and the benefit of the doubt.

Tue, 2011-12-27 21:40 — Claus-Erik Hamle (not verified)

Darwin 0 Religious Nutters 0
www.mcremo.com It seems we´ve been around on this planet for about 3 billion years, last all-out nuclear war probably about 300.000 years ago.
Google shooters walk free

Thu, 2011-10-13 11:37 — Drakula

Some years ag I read the book of Morman, and there are some things that don't add up apart from the mysterious gold plates that have 'disappeared'. The so called prophesies that Smith had gotten from the plates never seemed to go beyond the age of Smith.

Was Smith being played?

Sun, 2011-10-23 18:46 — pramod kumar (not verified)

i am a member of the church of jesus christ of latter day saints in hyderabad,india. the church and its teachings have blessed our lives and have given us peace. i hope that u guys think and choose ur next president based on his ability to lead the country. the skills that he has and the experience that he has . religion is not the only one criteria to choose or to dismiss. when u get operated or have a surgery, u do not ask him his religion rather u see what skills does he have. same with choosing ur leader.

Wed, 2011-10-12 01:06 — Daniele1

I am tolerant towards the religious only if they don't interfere with my freedoms and with the State.
The only acceptable way to be a politician and a member of a certain religion is to keep the two totally separated. That is why I respected Kennedy and his secular approach to the role of politician.Anything else and alarm bells should ring.
This "dominionist" perspective is scary and is in fact very similar to the adoption of Sharia law for Muslim countries.If they let it happen, the Americans could end up one day with a Christian fundamentalist state with all the horrors that it implies.

Wed, 2011-10-12 02:17 — Mrs.Josephine Hyde-Hartley (not verified)

In my view the only test worth it's salt that could sort out the cults from the great religion, concerns Jesus' kind treatment of the otherwise un-named woman of Samaria at Jacob's well.

Do God's modern people still understand the importance of the meeting between Christ and this strange woman? He doesn't treat her like dung but asks her for a drink. During the ensuing dialogue Christ actually reveals his true and correct identity to a woman who isn't married to the man she is with.

Shock horror. One wonders when modern religions will wake up and let the same light of God and shine on them.

Thu, 2011-10-13 11:48 — Mr. Divine (not verified)

Drakula: the gold plates haven't disappeared, they're just not there anymore. God knows where they are.

Tue, 2011-10-11 00:10 — Chad (not verified)

Good article, except the Book of Mormon is not an "alternative" to the Bible. It doesn't purport to replace the Bible, but rather to support it as another testament of Jesus Christ. (And no our missionaries have nothing to do with the CIA, Trevor, though that was pretty funny. The CIA surely like to recruit responsible men who learn a foreign language, for obvious reasons, in defense of our country. I'm glad some Mormon boys choose to serve in that function).

Wed, 2011-10-12 02:52 — ubicaritas (not verified)

@Danielle

'I am tolerant towards the religious only if they don't interfere with my freedoms and with the State.'

'The contempt of a group of religious nutters for another group of religious nutters never cease to amaze me and entertain me.'

That last don't sound too tolerant, Danielle!!

Seriously, though - the first statement is of course just common sense as far as the freedoms goes, but everyone, of any persuasion, has a duty to 'interfere' with the State as part of the democratic process, surely?

eg Just at the moment I am doing all in my power to 'interfere' with the passing of a really really crap NHS bill, aren't you?

Tue, 2011-10-25 12:48 — Keir

What intelligent and honest Americans will do is decide that a man who truly believes that the absurd Joseph Smith tale is not actually a joke is unfit to run a paper shop. Well, maybe a small one.

What intelligent and unprincipled Americans will decide is that a man who cannot possibly believe the absurd Joseph Smith tale is just the guy for them.

Well, maybe not that intelligent.

Tue, 2011-10-11 00:26 — Keir

The BoM contradicts the central teaching of the Bible with its support for justification by works, not faith. If the Bible is true, the BoM will send its compliant readers to hell.

Tue, 2011-10-11 00:29 — Bryan Monson (not verified)

I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Are we Christian? You mean in the same sense that Main-stream christianity has COMPLETELY and totally deviated from the Christianity described and practiced by the Church of Christ in ancient times, then no, we aren't, and don't want to be classified like that.

All of "mainstream Chrstianity" is an offshoot and a vast departing from what Christ actually taught and was practiced. Mormonism looks more like Christianity at the time of Christ than any group on the earth.

Do we love and serve, and teach about and love Christ and rely on him as the author and finisher of our Salvation? No question we do. Interesting statistic: Christ is talked about or discussed an average of every 2.7 verses in the Book of Mormon and has more to teach about Christ than any book in print. Read it, and I guarantee you'll feel closer to Christ than you ever could have thought possible. That is a promise.

Wed, 2011-10-12 07:32 — Bill (not verified)

Ubicaritas, don't you think man made religious beliefs have caused enough trouble. Personally I don't believe that information is destroyed by death, (the fear of death being the cause of these stories) but that doesn't mean I can't remain rational. Nothing is destroyed it just changes.
Any religion that could fully define the state of the universe and that god fellow would by definition, and because we could understand it, be too crude and base for it to be considered transcendental. Why not join the millions of Americans who using the expression "my god", instinctively know that god is a personal thing, because the full realities of the universe are way beyond human understanding.
If their was an interventionist god then organised religion has a lot to answer for, and you lot will all be in big trouble.
Darwin 1, Religious Nutters 0.

Tue, 2011-10-11 00:48 — Keir

Mormonism is merely an updated Roman Catholicism. It arose at a time when RCism was fighting democracy, the advance of science and evangelicalism, in the USA particularly. Theologically is is no different from Hinduism. Hinduism arguably makes more sense.

Thu, 2011-10-13 13:00 — swatantra nandanwar

The Plates were probably melted down ages ago to pay off debt.

Tue, 2011-10-11 04:31 — Ben (not verified)

Interesting article. However, I believe that the author's assertions that the strength of the Mormon church comes from it's quintessential "Americanism" are flimsy, given that the majority of Mormons apparently live outside the United States.

Sat, 2012-01-07 15:26 — John Cheese (not verified)

I think Mitt's a good guy w/good habits. I guess my "problem" with the Mormon religion is the delayed "revealing" of what they actually believe. They operate under the shadow of being just another Christian denomination but their beliefs are far from that. More like the Masons. The young missionaries eventually give you the theology but in comes in layers. Believe whatever you want, but just throw it out there & let people decide if the theology is right for them- don't be deceitful or ashamed during the sales pitch. Also, lots of pressure on the wives of the religion.

Sat, 2011-12-03 04:21 — Kimmy (not verified)

As a Mormon, I personally can testify most Mormons do not understand and I quote do not understand the religion we are raised in. According to Mormons, Obama will go to hell, because he is black, I have had many older elders tell me this and relatives that people of color were burnt by God. Joseph Smith and Brigham Young believed that black people could not go to heaven. Lets not forget that women have no rights!..if I don't have enough children my husband will not call me into heaven so I may inhabit his planet. I will say it again and a again that the true Jesus blessed me and revealed himself to me, Joseph Smith is not Jesus and never will be. We cannot become GODS! The only one who is holy is Jesus. If you truly understand Jesus and his teachings, do not condemn Mit Romney, for Jesus wants us to love all, but at the same time do not be fooled that he is being led by Jesus Christ...

Sat, 2011-12-03 04:29 — Jacki (not verified)

As a clinical psychologist, think on this one- How come what religion says is the truth is what people with schizophrenia are diagnosed as for believing such stories as what religions find "true"? If I were to walk up to you and tell you I am going to be a god, this is referred to as "ideas of grandeur," a common delusional symptom of schizophrenia, yet this is what a Mormon believes, and mainstream Christians believe Jesus's "delusions." I am not condemning what people believe, its just a curious thought?

Tue, 2011-10-11 08:39 — manaen (not verified)

@Keir, 10 October 2011 at 23:26

Please share references from The Book of Mormon that show its "support for justification by works, not faith."

I've read The Book of Mormon more than 25 times; that is not even close to the message that I receive from it.

While you're at it, please reconcile these verses with your misstatement, if you can:

- - - - -

Alma 22:13 […] the plan of redemption, which was prepared from the foundation of the world, through Christ, for all whosoever would believe on his name.
14 And since man had fallen he could not merit anything of himself; but the sufferings and death of Christ atone for their sins,

2 Nephi 10: 24 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, reconcile yourselves to the will of God, and not to the will of the devil and the flesh; and remember, after ye are reconciled unto God, that it is only in and through the grace of God that ye are saved.

2 Nephi 25:23 For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.

Alma 25:16 Now they did not suppose that salvation came by the law of Moses; but the law of Moses did serve to strengthen their faith in Christ; and thus they did retain a hope through faith, unto eternal salvation, relying upon the spirit of prophecy, which spake of those things to come.

Helaman 3:28 Yea, thus we see that the gate of heaven is open unto all, even to those who will believe on the name of Jesus Christ, who is the Son of God.

Moroni 10:33 And again, if ye by the grace of God are perfect in Christ, and deny not his power, then are ye sanctified in Christ, by the grace of God, through the shedding of the blood of Christ, which is in the covenant of the Father unto the remission of your sins, that ye become holy, without spot.

2 Nephi 2:
5 And men are instructed sufficiently that they know good from evil. And the law is given unto men. And by the law no flesh is justified; or, by the law men are cut off. Yea, by the temporal law they were cut off; and also, by the spiritual law they perish from that which is good, and become miserable forever.
6 Wherefore, redemption cometh in and through the Holy Messiah; for he is full of grace and truth.
7 Behold, he offereth himself a sacrifice for sin, to answer the ends of the law, unto all those who have a broken heart and a contrite spirit; and unto none else can the ends of the law be answered.

Ether 3:14 Behold, I am he who was prepared from the foundation of the world to redeem my people. Behold, I am Jesus Christ. I am the Father and the Son. In me shall all mankind have life, and that eternally, even they who shall believe on my name; and they shall become my sons and my daughters.

Moroni 7:38 For no man can be saved, according to the words of Christ, save they shall have faith in his name

Alma 5:27 Have ye walked, keeping yourselves blameless before God? Could ye say, if ye were called to die at this time, within yourselves, that ye have been sufficiently humble? That your garments have been cleansed and made white through the blood of Christ, who will come to redeem his people from their sins?

Alma 38: 9 And now, my son, I have told you this that ye may learn wisdom, that ye may learn of me that there is no other way or means whereby man can be saved, only in and through Christ. Behold, he is the life and the light of the world. Behold, he is the word of truth and righteousness.

Mosiah 16:
13 And now, ought ye not to tremble and repent of your sins, and remember that only in and through Christ ye can be saved?
15 Teach them that redemption cometh through Christ the Lord, who is the very Eternal Father. Amen.

Helaman 5: 9 […] remember that there is no other way nor means whereby man can be saved, only through the atoning blood of Jesus Christ,

Alma 21:9 Now Aaron began to open the scriptures unto them concerning the coming of Christ, and also concerning the resurrection of the dead, and that there could be no redemption for mankind save it were through the death and sufferings of Christ, and the atonement of his blood.

Helaman 3: 28 Yea, thus we see that the gate of heaven is open unto all, even to those who will believe on the name of Jesus Christ, who is the Son of God.

Mosiah 4: 2 […] O have mercy, and apply the atoning blood of Christ that we may receive forgiveness of our sins, and our hearts may be purified; for we believe in Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who created heaven and earth, and all things; who shall come down among the children of men.

Mon, 2011-10-17 00:39 — mahonri (not verified)

THIS is what Romney is faithful to, not the Constitution of the United States. He will be faithful in doing what he is told by his "prophet of God", tommy monson in Salt lake City. TEMPLE NARRATOR: (All patrons stand.) "Each of you bring your right arm to the square. You and each of you covenant and promise before God, angels, and these witnesses at this altar, that you do accept the Law of Consecration as contained in this, (The Officiator holds up a copy of the Doctrine and Covenants again.), the Book of Doctrine and Covenants, in that you do consecrate yourselves, your time, talents, and everything with which the Lord has blessed you, or with which he may bless you, to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, for the building up of the Kingdom of God on the earth and for the establishment of Zion."

Wed, 2011-10-12 12:40 — Daniele1

Ubicaritas:
I have just signed another petition to the Lords to save the NHS.But I am doing this as a citizen and my (small)intervention is based on rational arguments not on the existence of a supernatural being telling me what to do.
We all know what happens when politicians make decisions after they think God has spoken to them . How do you trust politicians like Blair and Bush who actually admitted that they spoke to God and he answered them? What if that god tells them to bomb another country? Oh wait...!
What is scary with a religious politician is that he could justify ANY action as "the word of God". This is what they do in Muslim countries. All the laws are Sharia which means they cannot be questioned or altered since they are Allah's orders.
This was also what happened in the Middle ages in the West when no law could be questioned and when any horror could be justified as "the will of God".A religious state is by definition a tyranny.The idea of democracy is incompatible with religion which is an oppressive system where one god, like an absolute King, decides everything about the citizens' lives and rules through the priesthood who are the only ones to "interpret" what God wants.How can democracy fit in with the idea of ONE all powerful god?

Tue, 2011-10-11 10:43 — Bill (not verified)

Is Father Christmass still alive?
Maybe if we told the truth to our children they wouldn't grow up believing in fairy stories.

Mon, 2011-10-24 08:45 — angelcai (not verified)

http://www.achat-moncler.org/ soldes moncler
http://www.achat-moncler.org/ moncler vestes
http://www.achat-moncler.org/moncler/Veste-Blouson/ moncler homme
http://www.achat-moncler.org/moncler/Moncler-Doudoune-Homme/ pas cher doudoune moncler
http://www.achat-moncler.org/moncler/Moncler-Angers/ doudoune moncler soldes

Tue, 2012-01-10 11:49 — ISC

@swantantra

'Hindism does indeed make more sense,out of all the 5 mainstream religions.'

Not if you are lower caste.

Wed, 2011-10-12 13:30 — Mr. Divine (not verified)

Darwin Nutters 1 Religious Sensible People 2

I am member of all religions. I am a Muslim as well as a Mormon and a Hindu. Even though I am one of all these religions I am 'doubtful' about what other people have said about God. When I hear that they have said things like " God said this to so and so, OR this is what God wants" I ask the question, "How do you know?". They say to me, " I just know". Then I say to them, " How do you just know?" And then they repeat the same thing. So I say to them, "Come back when you've got more proof". And they bring a book back and they say to me, " This is the proof". So I says to them, " How do you know it is the proof.". And they say to me, " I know it is the proof". But how do you know? I just 'know'.

I say to them how do you know it wasn't written by an American man pretending to be a Lesbian in Syria?

Wed, 2011-10-12 13:37 — Mr. Divine (not verified)

@Danile: 'How do you trust politicians like Blair and Bush who actually admitted that they spoke to God and he answered them?'

I did speak to Bush and Blair but I told them to go easy on the bombs... and they did. I had enough of Saddam because I'm very friendly with some Kurds I met in Yokohama and so when George and Tony asked me what should they do I said bombs away. Yes I know it was silly of me but you know me I am prone to the odd gungho urge. What the hell.

Sun, 2011-10-16 01:05 — Frederick (not verified)

At least they don't believe in hanging Gays from cranes, stoning women to death or lashing them and persecuting Jews.

Tue, 2011-10-11 13:26 — swatantra nandanwar

Agree that Hinduism makes a deal more sense, but would categorically dismiss any suggestion that it has any link whatsoever with Mormonism.
I doubt if Brigham Young had even heard of Hinduism. He was not a comparative theologian.

Sun, 2011-10-16 01:20 — Mara (not verified)

The truth is that most critics of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints have never bothered to walk through it's doors just once. The same is true of those who claim to know what's inside the Book of Mormon - most have never opened it let alone actually read it. A few days ago I heard someone telling an audience what he knew about Mormons (he got it off the internet). Much of what he said was true, I recognized the doctrine but it had a strange spin to it. Interesting that these sights that attempt to clarify what Mormons believe NEVER offer the scriptural evidence that back it up...and our doctrine has biblical back up. I am tired of seeing comments that accuse us of "indoctrinating" our children...it's called Sunday School. Am I to understand that you don't teach your children why you believe what you believe? How about a little honesty? Mitt Romney was born a Mormon but he chooses to remain one. People accuse him of changing his views to get elected. Interesting that his church affiliation could prove to be a deal breaker for the evangelicals that can't think for themselves...but he refuses to disavow it. I think that shows a man of integrity and courage...someone that would make Americans proud to be American again.

Tue, 2011-10-11 14:20 — ubicaritas (not verified)

@Bill

'Is Father Christmass still alive?

Who knows? But that Christ is, is hinted at in our continuing to celebrate Christ mass.

And maybe if we told the truth to our children in the way they best receive it (through eg 'fairy stories') they would grow up believing some things matter, as opposed to nothing.

There's more, Horatio, than the 'truth' that Father Christmas isn't coming down the chimney...

Thu, 2011-12-01 02:38 — Donna (not verified)

I live in Idaho. I know about the Mormon religion. I worked for a Mormon company out of Salt Lake. If you read about the Mormon religion and the belief that Jesus came to Joseph Smith in the United States and left golden plates for the Book of Mormon then you can believe Clinton did not have sexual relations. It really is a cult. Brain washing. If America was worried about the Catholics when Kennedy ran for president, boy, they should read about how cunning the upper leaders of the Mormon Church are. Read, read, and read more. How do you think they have built such a strong following? It's fear. The men are the head of the family and become priest at age 12. Wives are only called to heaven if their husband calls them. Wives are given a secret name when they are married in the temple. Only their husbands can call them to heaven with that name. Husbands can remarry and have several wives in heaven. The church baptizes for the dead non Mormons. So, if you are not Mormon, you can be baptized into their faith. They can count you in their membership.
Joseph Smith,was a Mason. He has used the rites of the Masons for the Mormon temple. Please read "Know Man Knows My History, by Brodie. It is factual. It has been banned in many Mormon towns in Idaho. I have many Mormon friends who are what we call "Jack Mormons" in Idaho. (They drink coffee, smoke, and drink) but the closer they get to dying they go back to their basic religion for fear of not living in the Celestial Haven where they can be Gods.
I feel most of the United States really do not understand how the Mormon church works. The Church will dictate what Ronmey needs to do. I know this sounds weird. Most Mormons are really nice people. All the good deeds they do, are to get farther to the Celestial Heaven. I look at it as a step ladder. The higher you go, the more rewards you will get in heaven. Check my facts. Read, read, and read more. Most Mormons do not understand their own religion. Also read the "The Massacres at Mountain Meadows" It shows how Mormons can kill for their religion. The more children you have the higher you get in heaven. It is the wife's duty, even if there is a genetic reason not to have more children

Wed, 2011-10-12 16:55 — Sam Gisoad (not verified)

I'll give a fair hearing to any religion that doesn't try to dictate what I can and cannot eat and with whom I can and cannot consensually have sex. Otherwise I start to suspect that it's all about control.

I will continue to be intolerant of anyone who tries to tell me I'm either stupid or consigned to eternal damnation because I don't buy into their personal unsupported belief system.

As far as I'm concerned, politicians should be able to believe in any God, gods, combination or lack thereof they choose without fear of mockery, as long as they a) don't use their job to proselytise and b) base their policies on observable evidence.

Tue, 2012-01-10 16:04 — Keir

'Everyone feared that Kennedy might be under the thumb of the Pope if elected, but his Catholicism never stopped Kennedy from breaking every moral code in the Book in his private and public life.'

But? That's very old Catholic Tradition, ignoring moral codes. For the rich, obviously. One law for them... Catholicism and Mormonism are for shitting on the poor. That's the idea.

Actually, Kennedy was atypical. He rocked the boat. It could have been influential Catholics who had him bumped off.

'So lets give Mitt a chance and the benefit of the doubt.'

Doubt? Mitt won't rock the boat. He knows the score. Sociopaths can vote for him with confidence.

They can always get the rifles out if it goes wrong.

Mon, 2011-10-10 16:33 — Keir

'nowadays it's too large and mainstream to be sensibly regarded as a "cult".'

Cults, Mr Jones, are defined by theologians, not by journalists who have to sell to as many, cultists included, as they can. And no theologian writes:

'Mormonism derives from Christianity',

honest. In the way that Marxism derives from capitalism, is how Mormonism derives from Christianity. And you, Mr Jones, are in serious danger of ridicule yourself- and taking NS with you.

The Book of Mormon is risible for two reasons- it's content- the wholescale invention of American history, and the lifting of KJV passages, as well as its anachronistic English- and its provenance, a 'revelation' to just one man, who used special spectacles to read an ancient language unknown to scholarship, engraved on golden plates, that of course disappeared without trace after use.

The angel responsible for those plates was given the name 'Moroni'. Smith may have thought that a simple anagram of that name would be sufficient warning for the intelligentsia. Certainly, Mormonism is for the educationally deprived and the metally limited, and thrives among them. It is very much on a par with Young-Earth Creationism in that respect- and theologically similar, too.

So if Republicans, having narrowly escaped Palin, wish to impale themselves on Romney, let them. Good riddance!

Sun, 2011-10-16 10:38 — Drakula

Well said Mara, I agree but where are the golden plates? Did Mr. Smith see them? and has the 1st seal been opened?

Could you please enlighten Mr. Divine and myself.

Tue, 2011-10-11 15:44 — pete (not verified)

All religions are cults as they are based on blind faith. It doesn't matter if a millions "believe" it. People that require you to "have faith" in something and thereby give up your rational mind are fundamentally snake oil salespeople.

Mon, 2012-01-09 20:35 — Keir

Joe Smith, prankster, wanted to test the intelligence of Americans. He challenged folk to believe in an angel, ferchrissakes, called Moroni. Toil hard, dear reader, to wrest an anagram out of that name. Because when you have found one, you will have discovered all you need to know.

Mon, 2011-10-10 15:14 — Trevor (not verified)

Last time (over three years ago)two immaculately attired, crew-cutted young American male Mormon missionaries turned up at my door, I asked them a few simple, but disarming, questions as to why so many of their faith end up being recruited into the CIA. Where they themselves agents? Where they personally acquainted with anyone in their church who was? Oddly, I've never been bothered since by this annoying sect.