Return to: Home | Blogs | Sian Berry

Make a difference on 4x4s

Sian calls on opponents of big polluting cars to stand up and be counted to make sure owners get hit with higher charges

This time last year, we were having a little party at Alliance Against Urban 4x4s HQ after Ken Livingstone announced plans to charge 4x4s (and other gas-guzzlers) a £25 congestion charge just a few weeks after we delivered our petition calling for almost exactly that. Now the hard work really begins as the plan is going out for public consultation this week.

In case you missed them, the proposals aim to introduce a new daily charge of £25 for cars in vehicle excise duty band G, covering cars that emit more than 225 grams of carbon dioxide per kilometre. There are also improved discounts for cleaner cars, with all vehicles in bands A and B (emitting less than 120 g/km of carbon dioxide) becoming totally exempt from the charge.

I don’t think anyone can argue that they need a 4x4 or 200 mph sports car in the centre of London and, in the absence of real action from central government, taking the lead and promoting cleaner cars on our own initiative is completely appropriate. The new rate will include all but a handful of 4x4s and every Bentley and Ferrari in town and will even remove their 90% resident’s discount, meaning owners of pointless status symbols will each pay a whopping £6,500 more per year just to have their machines parked in the zone.

I’m being harsh, but it’s an important issue. These cars aren’t harmless; the quantity of carbon dioxide emitted from even the least wasteful band G car is immense. If you have such a car, think about this: 225 g/km is the weight of a brick – of gas! – coming out of your exhaust pipe every five and half miles.

Importantly, almost every class of vehicle has models that aren’t in band G, so this is not an issue of freedom of choice. Some may find it painful to change their model of car, but people who genuinely need a 4x4 can seek out the few models that fall into band F, avoid the higher charge and do their bit to reduce climate change at the same time.

It’s all incredibly sensible, and we are confident the public consultation will show that the vast majority of Londoners want the charge to go ahead. With Greenpeace, the Alliance polled 5,000 people on the streets of London in 2005 using clipboards with the neutral phrase ‘transport survey’ written on the back. We found 85% support for a proposal to charge 4x4s and other gas-guzzlers a higher congestion charge, and many other polls have backed up this finding – with results ranging from 70-90% in favour.

The one exception to this rule was an online poll run by BBC Radio, trailing my appearance on a phone-in show a while back. This poll was running, as usual, well against 4x4s until about an hour before I was due in the studio. Then, all of a sudden, the voting rate went up from one or two people a minute to about 500 and the figures rapidly switched over. Clearly some clever 4x4-driving tecchy was fiddling the poll! I immediately alerted the programme makers, who didn’t seem very bothered, although I suspect they would be now in the wake of Blue Petergate.

Anyway, back to the issue at hand. It’s very simple: if you are a Londoner and, like me, think discouraging big stupid cars from polluting and clogging up our city is a good idea, get responding. You can be sure the ‘idiots’ will be getting their oar in too, so go to the Transport for London website tomorrow and register your support for the plan.

Post this article to

  • Digg
  • del.icio.us
  • newsvine
  • Reddit

29 comments from readers

IrritatedofTonbridge
07 August 2007 at 11:39

Sian do you and your people want to come and visit my neighbour who drives a Porsche Cayenne?

SheriffLittle
07 August 2007 at 12:22

Sian's argument here is very important because it underlines what kind of political choices Londoners will have at the mayoral election next year. If we want emissions charging to be introduced we need Ken Livingstone re-elected - and Boris Johnson defeated.

graham
08 August 2007 at 07:50

Ford market research has found that suv owners are "exhibitionists, wannabes and wankers". These charges may get through to some of these people.

mitchy
08 August 2007 at 13:23

Excellent.

Its about time something was done about these selfish, ignorant people. Not only do they use up more than their fair share of fuel driving these stupid vehicles, but they take up far too much road space as well. Not only are these vehicles (and the mentality of their drivers) dangerous to other road users, they are a death sentence to any pedestrian mown down by one.

Lets hope this spreads to the rest of the UK, and we can get these awful inventions off the roads.

Death to SUV's!

kusasi
08 August 2007 at 13:34

graham - what a great post!

I've spent 12 years of my life stuck in Market Research wishing I could do something more fulfilling. Now finally I realise that my industry has come up with something useful (even if, like most MR, it's stating the bleeding obvious, something we already knew, or both ...)

andyking20
09 August 2007 at 15:56

Well, I am just over 6'10" and need a big car because I have a couple of slipped discs and can't really contort myself into anything that isn't Band G. Trust me, when I replaced my car I really tried and the only one I could get was a BMW 7 series. This wasn't even big enough so I went for an Audi A8. I don't agree with people having a car that is more polluting than it needs to be, but I am driven to having one of these as a necessity. i need my car for my job and I am just being penalised because I don't have the same options as normally sized individuals. Isn't this slightly unfair?

GrahamB
09 August 2007 at 16:25

Entertaining article but I must confess to being a little confused.

Could Sian (or anyone else for that matter) please elaborate on how CO2 emissions, fuel economy, or even value of the vehicle have any bearing whatsoever on London roads being congested.

For reference (because I'm helpful like that), here is the definition from the Oxford Dictionary :

congested

• adjective - so crowded as to hinder or prevent freedom of movement.

I await elucidation with bated breath.

gmn2007
09 August 2007 at 16:32

I think Sian should try and be a responsible journalist. Her arguments are flawed, her language emotive and alarmist. Quite frankly I don't think 4x4s are an issue of any kind of priority. London is suffering from many problems and I am saddened by how much attention people like Sian get at the expense of much more important social, AND environmental issues.

215cu
09 August 2007 at 16:35

4x4s eh?

So these are cars that reside in Band G or cars propelled by all four wheels? Bentleys and Ferraris are powered by two of their four wheels. Also, they are pretty much still confined to using London's roads in the same way as everyone else - i.e. slowly.

Your argument Sian is a nice one but sadly flawed for some very good reasons.

Firstly, road users already pay to use the road some six times over the cost of providing the road to travel on. By vehicle excise duty first, then by duty and VAT on fuel. The more fuel you use, the more you pay. A truly fair, progressive tax.

Secondly, if I was to own a large 4.2L V8 Range Rover (incidentally built in Britain, enormous export success and supporting the livelihoods of thousands of working class people) and then decide to power it with LPG. I am exempt from the Congestion Charge.

Thirdly, these people are using their money and making their choice to spend it how they wish. That is their democratic right. A right you want to curtail.

I didn't know that defending such freedoms immediately made people idiots.

You might not like that Sian, but that's called freedom of choice, a fundamental human right. They might well be idiots but they aren't breaking any laws.

So your authoritarian outlook is to what? Tax them? Based on what? Usage? Already taxed. Owning them? Already taxed.

Driving them into London - oh... already taxed (kind of) so tax them some more.

Last time I looked at a Bentley, they cost a cool £250,000. Do you seriously think that making them pay a bit more is going to deter them from driving them into London?

Not at all.

So Sian, what we are left with here is a politics of envy. What you are effectively arguing for is to restrict people's movement purely based on their choice of transportation?

A transport super tax just like those old fashioned socialist c1979 that everyone has convieniently forgotten about.

These people are rich and successful for a reason, they are probably very good at whatever they do for a living. In some part they are more than responsible for why London is such a vibrant and successful city.

Your environment concerns are a bit bogus really.

What about all the cabs running on 1970s diesel engines that spout out far more than 225g/km. Or the buses? Or the vans & lorries delivering goods needed to keep London going?

Is anything being done there? No, of course it isn't.

Should there? Well I wager they cause more pollution than a few Band G cars.

Like I say, politics of envy. You should be ashamed of yourself.

gmn2007
09 August 2007 at 16:39

Makes you wonder if there really is a (poorly) hidden socialist agenda behind all the green fluff.... Food for thought...

andyking20
09 August 2007 at 16:53

Surely the authorities should be setting an example by sorting out the buses and taxis first. After all, if New York can run LPG buses, Istanbul and Bucharest LPG taxis, why can't we do more.

It seems that drivers are being demonised despite having paid plenty of tax on their fuel and car purchase already.

427james
09 August 2007 at 18:23

Several good points being made here. I plan to buy a number of Toyota Prius (not sure of the plural) and park all of them out side Ken Livingston's house in an effort to prove that they do actually cause congestion.

Closet Roy
10 August 2007 at 01:19

Surely such a skewed tax on cars with higher CO2 emmisions will simply lead to the very rich (i.e. those who own the Bentlys and Ferraris Sian seems so jealous of) being no less able to afford to run their choice of vehicle? . . . which would lead me to believe that the number of these 'big, stupid' cars would not decrease at all. If, as Sian seems to think, the sole reason for owning a performance vehicle is as a status symbol, having to pay more to keep it on the road makes it an even more potent one.

Also, as has already been pointed out, what do emissions have to do with congestion? If one were to be serious about tackling congestion, ALL privately owned cars would be charged at an equal rate. If however one were serious about tackling CO2 emissions, as andyking20 states, old and inefficient busses and taxis are the place to start. Can you really suggest that an overworked diesel engine, running and polluting for the entire day, is worse than a Range Rover or Lamborghini making a short journey across town?

Besides, supercars look and sound beautiful, the sight and sound of one is enough to brighten the most dull of days. Rather than splattering innocent bystanders with my own eco-friendly bile at the sight of a car I cannot afford, I would choose to enjoy it for what it is, and concentrate my environmental efforts in areas that actually matter, not ones powered and sustained by jealousy.

Roy

soundjat keita
10 August 2007 at 11:54

Where did all these fanatical polluters come from?

"Supercars look & sound beautiful." What, with their thumping drum-n-bass music? No thanks.

Cybertiger
10 August 2007 at 12:53

In a long, pompous tirade, cu215 was seen to say,

"Thirdly, these people are using their money and making their choice to spend it how they wish. That is their democratic right. A right you want to curtail. You might not like that Sian, but that's called freedom of choice, a fundamental human right."

I have just looked over the 'Universal Declaration of Human Rights' adopted by the General assembly of the United Nations in December 1948 and I cannot find any reference to that 'fundamental human right' to drive a tractor around Chelsea.

GrahamB
10 August 2007 at 13:57

Cybertiger. you won't find a "fundamental human right to make a disinenguous comment on a website" either yet it seems to suit you to do so. And yes, you do in fact, have that right (website owners' right to enforce certain standards notwithstanding of course).

Cybertiger
10 August 2007 at 14:28

"They might well be idiots but they aren't breaking any laws."

I agree with cu215 on this one - so I won't be pressing any charges on GrahamB

NCoT
10 August 2007 at 15:54

"Fanatical polluters"? Perhaps I should get rid of my old car and get myself a nice new Prius, complete with poor MPG, associated manufacturing costs, environmentally unfriendly batteries that will need disposing of at the end of their short lifetime, etc.

I'm afraid the article and most of its followers are displaying their true colours here. It's not about congestion, it's not about the environment (and so-called MMGW), it's purely and simply the politics of envy. You might not want one of the cars you see, you just don't want anybody else to have one!

Why can you not rejoice in the beauty of a well crafted and designed car, marvel at the sound of a wonderful tuned engine (we're not talking stereos here love!)? I'm sure some of the watermelons here (green on the outside, red on the inside) have some depraved and sickening hobbies that would make my blood run cold, but, hey, that's their choice and I'm all for freedom of choice.

Anyway, cheerio all!

215cu
10 August 2007 at 16:05

Cybertiger,

I didn't know that facts could be pompous but thanks for pointing that out. Let's stick to grown-up debate before this degenerates into a meeting of the Popular People's Front of Judea.

Maybe instead of rubbishing facts that inconviently get in the way, perhaps maybe you have a solution?

I've suggested setting a better example from LRT and local government.

What's yours?

Cybertiger
10 August 2007 at 17:17

"So Sian, what we are left with here is a politics of envy" said cu215, the uprighteous Member of Parliament for Biggar Dickar.

Sian may be envious of all those plonkers in their 4x4s but I can assure you that I have absolutely no need to feel envy at all.

PS. I have pretensions to be the priapic member for Chelsea and Westminster - without the need for a £250,000 Bentley - or a Chelsea tractor - to make me be seen as thoroughly upstanding.

Cybertiger
10 August 2007 at 18:11

cu125 asks whether I may have a final solution to the problem of the urbanised 4x4 driver. I am of the opinion that offenders should be neutered, neutralised or maybe naturalised to wander freely on Judea's green and pleasant land.

Closet Roy
10 August 2007 at 23:41

" "Supercars look & sound beautiful." What, with their thumping drum-n-bass music? No thanks."

soundjat keita, your display of lightning insight and monolithic intellect has caused me to sink to my knees in awe and wonder . . . how could I not have percieved this before, that all performance cars are powered by large stereos? My eyes have been opened to the truth, all fast cars run on bpm, the louder the 'drum 'n' bass' the faster one 'rolls', that explains so much!

The sound also defines the shape of the vehicle too, hadn't spotted that either! Isn't it amazing what you miss when you aren't distracted by judging other people?!

Cybertiger
11 August 2007 at 14:37

cu512,

"Please spare me the 'I'm not an international socialist / communist / marxist / trotskyist / fabianist / chartist / crypto-quasi-neosoc" I am really not interested."

The shock and awe at my massive manly dimensions is most interesting. Thank you too for your interest in pigeon-holing my religious and socio-political philosophy. As it happens, I am a profound skeptic, devout atheist, and liberal secular fundamentalist, fundamentally intolerant of the urban freedoms exerted by that fundamental plonker in his/her massive SUV.

GrahamB
12 August 2007 at 03:07

Cybertiger, do you actually have a specific point to make or are you simply here to insult and attempt witty retorts?

It's a genuine question - I welcome reasoned debate.

Cybertiger
12 August 2007 at 09:22

"Cybertiger, do you actually have a specific point to make or are you simply here to insult and attempt witty retorts? It's a genuine question - I welcome reasoned debate."

Go on then GrahamB, we're waiting with bated breath; let's hear some reason for a change.

PS. Why not also read Ken's wise and reasoned words at the Guardian and comment on them here?

http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/ken_livingstone/2007/08/...

GrahamB
12 August 2007 at 14:41

I've challenged the assertion that this proposal bears any relation to congestion. As yet, no one has had the inclination, or more likely in my opinon, the grounds, to disagree.

Cybertiger
13 August 2007 at 10:23

You're an astute fella Graham - who could possibly disagree with you? In his article 'Tanks for the memory', Ken Livingstone said that congestion charging in central London has cut traffic levels by 22%. He, therefore, now sees the opportunity to cut levels of noxious fumes in the city. The proposed new charge on personal tanks in London is an emissions charge not a congestion charge. I'm glad Graham gets it - perhaps he'll stop fuming now.

WyvernCrusader
17 August 2007 at 11:19

Frankly if we go down that line perhaps you will be taxing farmers and horse owners for the amount of methane produed which directly effects the atmosphere

If i won the lottery it will be an AUSTIN MARTIN for me and you eco 'friendly' be dammed

WyvernCrusader
17 August 2007 at 11:20

Red Ken is getting madder by the minute , but then he was incharge of GLC and that says it all ,

Post your comment

(Your email address will not be published)

Recent Posts

Berry last blog

14 July 2008 11:18

Oops we broke EU rules

19 June 2008 14:37

Boris's large fiscal hole

10 June 2008 17:03

Farewell Ken

09 May 2008 16:03

I may not actually win...

07 April 2008 10:01

The truth about Brian Paddick

28 March 2008 10:51

Vote Berry... and Livingstone!

19 March 2008 14:54

Past Entries

Follow this blog

Newsletter

Enter your email address here to receive updates from the team

Vote!

Will the Iraq inquiry be a 'whitewash'?

Suggest a question

View comments

© New Statesman 1913 - 2009

Tracker