France has always struggled with evidence-based science.
Sarkozy has expressed concern over French attitudes towards science. Photo: Getty Images
Louis Theroux’s examination of the schooling system for American children with autism made for moving and captivating viewing last night. It would be fascinating to watch him do the same in France.
Being autistic, or the parents of autistic children in France is an appalling experience. This BBC report makes astonishing reading: in France, autism is widely approached through psychoanalysis – sometimes of the whole family. Most of the rest of the world uses an evidence-based approach, treating autistic spectrum disorders by embracing the scientific appraisals of the condition and offering alternative approaches to education. This approach works: the UK, for instance, manages to get 17 times more autistic students into university than France.
The autism issue seems to be symptomatic of France’s difficult relationship with evidence-based science. I first got interested in this notion in 2009 when author Simon Singh tweeted about French rejections of his book examining the case for alternative medicine: “Publishers reject Trick or Treatment? for translation, claiming French don't care about evidence. Argh!”
This week, Singh and his co-author Ernst finally got a French publisher. The thing is, French people are good at science. They are well-educated and know their stuff, according to this
European Union report. They are also well-informed about current science. But science remains at arm’s length: it doesn’t make inroads into the cultural life.
Here is French primatologist Bernard Thierry talking about the French attitude to evolution: "Nobody in France is against Darwinism. There's just not much interest…Our intellectuals know nothing about science.”
It’s what some researchers have called the “knowledge-ignorance paradox”. According to LSE researcher Martin Bauer, support within a population for science is inversely proportional to the strength of that country’s scientific research. As Bauer and his colleagues put it in
this paper, “if the national science base is strong… science initiatives find less support and vice versa.” And, as it turns out, the French are highly supportive of science initiatives – suggesting their science base is actually rather weak.
I can offer some arbitrary and rather unscientific figures to back this up. Here’s the question: how many members of a population does it take to create a Nobel prize-winning scientist?
Taking 1970 as the cutoff for modern times, in Sweden, it’s 1.5 million people per scientific Nobel prize. In the UK, it’s 1.7 million. Germany has a prize for every 3 million people (reunification will no doubt have pushed that figure up). France? Since 1970, one scientific Nobel prize per 5 million people.
It’s a heinously crude measure, obviously. But there’s something in it. President Sarkozy is clearly bothered by French science, and his campaign for re-election includes a push to change the way science is done in France. In
this interview with the journal Nature, he points out that France got its research model wrong after the Second World War. “We created agencies separate from the universities to do basic research. At the time, such a set-up was found only in Communist countries, in particular the USSR and China. Now, even these countries have abandoned this model.”
France, he says, has to follow. When it comes to science, vive la difference is no longer an option.
27 comments
i don't understand why to need to know the intelligence level of a nation must use the number of Nobel Prize? .. since the award was coming from private funding, the largest contributing nation in funding must get the most nobel award.
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these are not qualities that seem to qualify either group as advisors on world affairs.
steel pipe
I would be more worried about "scientists" who dont seem to realise there is a difference between clinical science and the study of physical science. Because a a physical scientist can calculate how long it would take a 1kg load to hit the ground from 10 meters, would the scientist take the same approach trying to figure out how far a living person could throw the 1kg load. I dont think they could get their head around the fact each throw would have a different outcome.
seo in chandigarh
What a silly, obnoxious, dreadfully ill-informed article. The writer apparently has no clue that modern science is essentially the offspring of the Cartesian philosophy of clear and distinct ideas and its application of mathematics to natural phenomena. He also seems unaware that an inability to discern links between relevant evidence and inferable conclusions would be an epistemological failing, not a scientific one. I’m not sure what might count as evidence that French intellectuals are any less epistemologically adept than their British or German counterparts, but it’s ‘evident’ that nothing remotely sufficient to warrant such a generalization has been offered here.
An article that sought to identify and explain—on the basis of some research—whether and why the preoccupations of French intellectuals characteristically differ from the concerns of their counterparts in other nations could have been interesting; this one is merely curious.
The French intellectuals know about science but a little bit different than we used to know about that. They see things different and that is why write down about them also in a different way.
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“We created agencies separate from the universities to do basic research. At the time, such a set-up was found only in Communist countries, in particular the USSR and China. Now, even these countries have abandoned this model.”
The model of research institutes, separate from universities, carrying out research is not unique to France, nor is it an unsuccessful model. Germany has many Max Planck Institutes which do exactly this. Japan and the US also have dedicated research institutes. The research carried out at these institutions is often of very high quality, as they usually offer better working conditions for researchers than universities and hence tend to attract more talented young researchers. If France wishes to improve its standing as a producer of high quality science, than it certainly should not countenance closing its independent research institutes.
The author of this article has a fuzzy notion of science and intellectual, and for that matter France. While he admits that his own method is unscientific, he tries to make a generalization about an entire nation's relationship to science (as if science were a thing and not perhaps a method). The title metnions French intellectuals, but none are cited in the article! The country that prides itself on Cartesian thinking is suddenly anti-science?! A proper scientific method requires doubt and humility in the face of evidence. I see no evidence here worthy of a hypothesis.
The author of this article has a fuzzy notion of science and intellectual, and for that matter France. While he admits that his own method is unscientific, he tries to make a generalization about an entire nation's relationship to science (as if science were a thing and not perhaps a method). The title metnions French intellectuals, but none are cited in the article! The country that prides itself on Cartesian thinking is suddenly anti-science?! A proper scientific method requires doubt and humility in the face of evidence. I see no evidence here worthy of a hypothesis.
Article hypothesis: "France (has a) difficult relationship with evidence-based science"
"evidence":
1. In France, autism is frequently treated by psycho-analysis. This is not as successful as the way autism is treated in the UK (if successful treatment of autism is measured by gaining entry into university).
2. French people are good at, & knowledgeable about, science.
3. Science makes no inroads into French cultural life. (The *evidence* for this claim? One deconstextualised quote from a French primatologist.)
4. A theory about the inverse relation between population support for science initiatives & strength of science.
5. France has a lower ratio of nobel prize winners per head of population than UK, Sweden or Germany.
Let us make 2 observations:
i. None of these 5 points would remotely pass muster as "evidence" for any discipline or inquiry, never mind science.
ii. None of them in any way relates to the hypothesis of the article.
Conclusion: Apparently jingoistic science journalist is woefully incapable either of constructing an argument, or of providing evidence that might justify his argument.
Ironically.
You are completely overlooking the brilliant British inroads in the science of tourette's syndrome. Not only has the results of their scientific research manifested itself in the vocabulary of the average Brit, but I can only conclude you have never heard of Dolly the sheep who now also has command of tourettes/english.
One in five voted for the far-right. The lefts great European revival is a long way away.
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Science is not part of cultural life in Britain let alone France and in both unlike the US active religous anti-science is thankfully not significant. Psycho-analysis and everything else that came from Freud was damaging, unscientific nonsense but is thankfully receding. It was not by any means confined to France and is probably stronger in the US than anywhere in eruope.
France's share of Nobel prizes is less than Britains but is still far far greater than the world average. The significance of this is doubtful especially when the strong relationship between the number of Nobel prizes per head of population and proximity to Sweden is noted. The most significant modern trend is the increase in the proportion of prizes won by US citizens.
The general impression is of a writer who reachs his conclusions first and then desperately searchs for evidence afterwards. It would be nice for a 'science journalist' to write balanced articles with strong evidence.
Count the number of French Field's Medal holders to adjust your view.
I would be more worried about "scientists" who dont seem to realise there is a difference between clinical science and the study of physical science. Because a a physical scientist can calculate how long it would take a 1kg load to hit the ground from 10 meters, would the scientist take the same approach trying to figure out how far a living person could throw the 1kg load. I dont think they could get their head around the fact each throw would have a different outcome. A patient wants a clinician with experience who can take a good history and perform a good physical examination, which is far more important than the ability to search for published data on Pub Med.
I would be more worried about "scientists" who dont seem to realise there is a difference between clinical science and the study of physical science. Because a a physical scientist can calculate how long it would take a 1kg load to hit the ground from 10 meters, would the scientist take the same approach trying to figure out how far a living person could throw the 1kg load. I dont think they could get their head around the fact each throw would have a different outcome. A patient wants a clinician with experience who can take a good history and perform a good physical examination, which is far more important than the ability to search for published data on Pub Med.
and what about the difficulties of the US citizens with "evidence-based science" , with serious conservative candidates not believing in evolution, climate change, and so on.
Ok France's education system is not perfect, but at least it is secular.
This article is woefully misinformed, and intellectually unsound. What sets France apart here is that they don't confuse "science" (or even worse, knowledge) with empiricism. The inability to critically examine the production of "evidence," or to think seriously about how the meaning of "evidence" is never self-evident, has left other intellectual traditions in very dire straits. Think of the dominant models of "evidence-based" economic analysis, and where they've gotten us.
In America, every kid and their dog is getting a label of mental illness, over a billion dollars has been spent on autism research, and autism only increases while actual knowledge of what it is or what causes it continues to draw a blank in Science.. In France, autism is not the gravy train it is here in America see http://raggette.blogspot.com/2011/05/okay-now-is-your-chance-to-use-brai... or go here: http://geocommons.com/maps/62088.
Science is only one way of seeing the world, and it is often wrong.
Science is never wrong, people are. Science may be 'fluid', as are the frames of space. It may also add detail with time, but that doesn't make it wrong.
You are right however when it comes to pill popping, and one wonders how a whole population has been duped by drug companies.
Science is never wrong, people are. Science may be 'fluid', as are the frames of space. It may also add detail with time, but that doesn't make it wrong.
You are right however when it comes to pill popping, and one wonders how a whole population has been duped by drug companies.
What else do you expect from the country that gave us Jacques Derrida?
More great things i guess? But the happening of Derrida was in a way the lucky product of the French colonial legacy and the former dominance of Europe - which will hopefully never happen again. We must probably look elsewhere for the Jacques Derridas of the future.
More great things i guess? But the happening of Derrida was in a way the lucky product of the French colonial legacy and the former dominance of Europe - which will hopefully never happen again. We must probably look elsewhere for the Jacques Derridas of the future.
I suppose that if President Sarkozy would find out that among the undecided voters is a huge interest in homoeopathy, France would have the biggest institute for homoeopathetic research in the world in a snap. Its just a guess, following his other positions that develop due to demand.
Hasn't Monsanto left a bad taste of science in people's mouths?
The article seems to draw a link between two unrelated issues:
* The organisation of French research with national research institutes (CNRS, INRIA...) working in tandem with universities. This is a rather technical issue, related to the teaching overload of junior university professors, which is itself perhaps link to most French universities being prohibited from choosing their students.
* Lack of scientific knowledge among "intellectuals". This seems related to
a) curricula organization : philosophy, sociology, psychology are seens as "literary" endeavours, apart from exact sciences;
b) a culture where it is perfectly acceptable, and even encouraged, to admit to be woefully ignorant on basic science (e.g. 1st and 2nd principles of thermodynamics), but it is a dreadful faux pas to admit not to know about some intellectual or not having read some novel (witness how Sarkozy was criticized for mispronouncing Roland Barthes' surname).