Nelson Jones

Belief, disbelief and beyond belief

Syndicate contentRSS

Marriage Guidance

The debate on same sex marriage has so far been dominated by its opponents.

Gay marriage
Same-sex statues on top of a wedding cake. Photograph: Getty Images

More than half a million people have now signed the Coalition For Marriage's petition against the government's proposal to permit same-sex marriage.  For a campaign that didn't even exist a few months ago, it's an extraordinary achievement.  A rival petition supporting the equalisation of the marriage laws has attracted barely a tenth the number of signatures.

There have been signs in recent days that the campaign to prevent what had seemed a fait accompli is beginning to scent victory, at least in the battle for public opinion. The government remains committed to the reform, but in the wake of the coalition parties' poor showing in the local elections there has been a notable lack of enthusiasm for it, especially on the Tory benches.  Nadine Dorries spoke for more of her colleagues than usual the other day when she described same sex marriage the other day as a policy "pursued by the metro elite gay activists" that needs to be "put into the same bin" as Lords reform. "Gay marriage" has become a symbol of everything that the Conservative right hates about the coalition and about David Cameron's modernising agenda.  

There is, in fact, a persuasive logic to Cameron's conservative case for same-sex marriage.  With its history and moral weight, the word "marriage" has a magic that the newly invented status of civil partnership lacks.  To invite gay couples to participate in the institution is not only to offer them full acceptance (the "progressive" part).  It is also to ask them to embrace the traditional, and conservative, moral obligations of marriage.  At the same time, opening marriage to same-sex couples might give it new appeal to younger, liberal-minded heterosexuals currently suspicious of its historic baggage.

But the case has not been well made.  It doesn't help that the proposals themselves are illogical and badly thought-through, and would raise more anomalies than they solve.  By closing down options, for example refusing to countenance allowing heterosexual couples to enter civil partnerships, the March consultation document missed an opportunity for a genuine national debate on the nature of marriage and the state's role in registering it.  Declaring the policy already decided also generated a predictable backlash.  The impression of arrogance was not helped by Lynne Featherstone, the Lib Dem minister responsible, offering a "cast-iron guarantee" that the change would be introduced before the next election (a promise she repeated yesterday).  

Instead, opponents of changing the law have dominated the discussion.  Their greatest success has been in portraying the government's proposals as involving a fundamental redefinition of marriage.  Concentrating on the word rather than the substance presents the change as more radical than it actually is (from a practical point of view, the introduction of civil partnerships represented a much greater advance in the state's acceptance of same-sex relationships).  It also leads to some fairly reactionary arguments.  The Coalition For Marriage  states, for example, that marriage "reflects the complementary natures of men and women" -- a position not far removed from a demand that men go out to work while women stay at home looking after the kids.  The same suggestion was made in a letter from the Roman Catholic archbishops that was controversially circulated to Catholic schools.

Ironically, such an argument is itself an attempt to redefine marriage, or at least to return to an older definition.  Even understood as a relationship between one man and one woman, marriage has changed profoundly during the centuries, from being an institution based on the exchange of property and securing the legitimacy of children to one based on the mutual relationship of the spouses.  US Vice President Joe Biden encapsulated it well when he came out in support of same sex marriage at the weekend.   It was, he said, "a simple proposition -- who do you love?  And will you be loyal to the person you love? That's what all marriages at root are about."  This hasn't always been the case.

Rooting marriage in the difference between the sexes rather than their equality, as the Campaign for Marriage does, looks like an attempt to set the clock back.  This is why the issue of same sex marriage should not merely be of concern to gay people.   Opening marriage to homosexual couples isn't just a recognition that they are now a full part of society.  It's also a logical expression of the modern understanding of marriage as a partnership between equals.  

 

14 comments

David Robertson's picture

Some people just do not get it.....if you accept Joe Bidens position "a simple proposition -- who do you love? And will you be loyal to the person you love? That's what all marriages at root are about." Or Lynne Featherstone's 'marriage is two adults who love one another' - then there is no reason to oppose two brothers marrying, nor really is there any reason to restrict the number to two! The only way for their to be 'same sex marriage' is to redefine marriage (as David Cameron said). And that means a redefinition for everyone. It is the incredible myopia of the self styled 'metro-elites' in failing to see this that has got much of the rest of the country up in arms against the proposal. The case for same-sex marriage is one that is based upon a series of prejudices not reasons - which is why the same sex marriage supporters will, even though they get their way (which is what elites do), lose the argument.

jankaas's picture

you think there are brothers who wish to marry one another? really...?

and then you stampede off into the tall grass imagining that 2 adults committing to marriage is bound to lead to group marriage. ridiculous.

why not be honest David, homosexuality scares you, especially when it is male homosexuals. why is that now..?

tell you what the real crisis in the institution of marriage is and has been for decades; heterosexual couples marrying more than once.

antisylphid's picture

I simply don't get this fight. Democracy should support minorities, although I am not so sure if gay people are in minority even. Is problem in being gay or in definitions that don't match? This fight went to far looks like. It doesn't make sense.

Davidaslindsay's picture

When the Attlee Government legislated to regulate marriage, it simply presupposed that marriage could only ever be the union of one man and one woman. No one said anything, because it was so obvious. There have always been other things as well. But they were and are, in the technical sense of the word, deviations. The union of one man and one woman is the universal norm, simply as a matter of fact. Ask yourself why that should be, and what makes us think that we in the Postmodern West are so much wiser in these matters than everyone everywhere else and at every other time.

There is simply no comparison with, for example, interracial marriage, which has never been illegal in this country, and which has only ever been so anywhere if specific legislation had been passed to that effect. By contrast, redefining marriage to include same-sex couples is only legal anywhere because specific legislation has been passed to that effect. This is one of the three most dramatic and most drastic proposals that Parliament will ever have considered. Ever. It ranks even with the recent legalisation of human-animal hybridity and the recent permission of two persons of the same sex to be listed as the parents on a birth certificate. But with the nature of marriage up for debate, traditionalists should seize the opportunity and the initiative.

The extension to relatives of the right to contract civil partnerships, which do not need to be consummated, since not even Tony Blair could devise a way of enabling the Supreme Governor of the Church of England and Defender of the Faith to grant Royal Assent to legislation making legal privileges conditional on sexual acts other than that, within marriage, which constitutes the consummation of marriage. The present restriction of civil partnerships to same-sex couples is an expression of triumphalism; it is a way of saying, “We are the masters now”.

The entitlement of each divorcing spouse to one per cent of the other’s estate for each year of marriage, up to 50 per cent, and the disentitlement of the petitioning spouse unless fault be proved, thereby restoring the situation whereby, by recognising adultery and desertion as faults in divorce cases, society declared in law its disapproval of them even though they were not in themselves criminal offences.

The entitlement of any marrying couple to register their marriage as bound by the law prior to 1969 with regard to grounds and procedures for divorce, and to enable any religious organisation to specify that any marriage which it conducts shall be so bound, requiring it to counsel couples accordingly.

And the statutory specification that the Church of England be such a body unless the General Synod specifically resolve the contrary by a two-thirds majority in all three Houses, with something similar for the Methodist and United Reformed Churches, which also exist pursuant to Acts of Parliament, as well as by amendment to the legislation relating to the restoration of the Catholic hierarchy.

jankaas's picture

face it David, you are just not cut out for the modern world. nor do you seem able to accept the most simple of realities; it is possible for same sex couples to have a loving relationship that they want the rest of the world to know about, same as for heterosexual couples. the ultimate way to achieve this is through marriage, yet you demand this is denied to some adults.

in case you remain all confused, allow me to help you; the definition of marriage is what we as a society decide. and different societies come to different conclusions.

it has always been that way, and it appears that your preferred definition is no longer fit for purpose in the West.

Anthony (Little englander and proud)'s picture

The only concern to the lib dems is letting fags bum at the altar, you would think there was more important things to worry about.

I note there is no article about the conviction of the racist Asian pedo gang, funny that.

jankaas's picture

what a lovely image you bring to the fore. i guess you fear that permitting gay marriage would be the undoing of your current pretence at being straight.
but is your own failed existance a valid reason to ruin the lives of others?

Anthony (Little englander and proud)'s picture

Damn right, I'm homophobic, islamophobic, feminist phobic, euro-phobic, I'm all the phobics under the sun and more, all that and I'm still more popular than you.

jankaas's picture

more popular than me where exactly dear? unless you meant at your local YMCA, where it's fun to play...

jankaas's picture

this was worth repeating, thanks N Myers;

"we simply don't want their definition of marriage to be forced upon the rest of the population."

B.Lee's picture

The Coalition 4 Marriage was always going to get such a high number of signatures.
They were in my own Anglican Church falsely telling people the petition was about stopping the Church from being forced to marry gay couples. Most people signed it twice, both on paper and online and they also wrote down the names of their children (under 16's).
They also have a mailing list of 200,000 that went straight out, then sent an open letter to every Catholic Church and Catholic school urging people to be "good Catholics" and sign the petition. The open letter was very misleading and gave the impression it's about Churches being forced to conduct same sex marriages.
They kick-started their campaign in front of the worlds media and paid for full page adverts in the daillies and just a cursory glance through Twitter reveals foreigners signing it and advising others on what UK postcodes to use.

The hypocrisy that the Church don't campaign against adultery, divorce and co-habitation with equal vigour isn't lost on me.

Helen Laird's picture

A good article, but please put a link to the pro same-sex marriage petition. Else you are artificially increasing the numbers on the anti same-sex marriage petition.

mittfh's picture

The debate is pretty much solely around the terminology and the historic associations of it. After all, Civil Partnerships are legally equivalent to heterosexual marriage; so from a legal PoV the only differences between the two are where they can take place and who they can be between.

There's also a strange quirk in the current legislation that if one partner in a heterosexual marriage undergoes gender reassignment, then they have to get their marriage annulled and take out a CP starting on the same day.

So surely it makes sense to just remove the gender restrictions from both? Marriage would then be the preferred choice of those in a romantic relationship, while CPs would be for platonic couples / siblings / other arrangements.

Nathaniel Myers's picture

Why marriage equality? Because the only reason people oppose it is because they have been told to be a bunch of sexually repressed old virgin men. We're not interested in redefining marriage for all of those that don't think homosexual couples should be able to marry, we simply don't want their definition of marriage to be forced upon the rest of the population.

Latest tweets