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11 comments from readers

unseen
03 November 2009 at 16:47

What about the final sentence:

"No treaty should be *ratified* without consulting the British people in a referendum"?

Attacking the Tories on this is bad politics, as it just highlights Labour's failure to give a referendum too. It looks like schadenfreude too.

JK
03 November 2009 at 16:50

Oh come along James. You can do better than that! As of Dec 1st the Treaty is no longer a treaty, it becomes European law. No mention from you on how this turn of events has arisen despite a Labour (who last time I checked were still in government) manifesto commitment that this treaty would not be ratified without a referendum.

Had there been an election between Cameron's statement that you so gleefully quote and today then I think we would have seen that referendum, and you know it.

Boudicca
03 November 2009 at 17:14

The Lisbon Treaty is no more. It will now be incorporated into the Treaty of Rome - which is why Cameron can't de-ratify it. It was blindingly obvious that his commitment was valid providing the Treaty was unratified. What we now need to know is Tory policy now the Treaty has become EU law.

The electorate will NOT forget that it was Labour which broke a Manifiesto Commitment to hold a Referendum and Mandelson who kept Gordon in power long enough to get the Treaty through. Traitors all.

beak
03 November 2009 at 17:18

James - you make no mention of Labour's position on this. They actually had a manifrsto pledge to hold a referendum on the Treaty/Constitution while they were actually in power and the treaty not signed. There position is a disgrace. As you claim not to hold the EU gravy train close to your heart, why do you not mention this. It appears party politics is clouding your judgement on this matter.

As for David Millibands quote....

"So much for David Cameron's cast-iron guarantee to hold a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty"

What a hypocrite! How does he have the nerve?

Jamie Edwards
04 November 2009 at 02:03

Ugh, so weak

firsttimer
04 November 2009 at 12:31

Labour had a manifesto pledge to hold a referendum on a Constitution

Cameron made a "cast-iron guarantee" to hold a referendum on ANY treaty that emerged from the negotiations.

It is in our national interests, and our interests as citizens, to be in the EU - if they don't agree, why don't eurosceptics articulate their vision of how the UK would prosper outside? And why don't they apply their objections on principle to other international bodies of which we are a member?

beak
04 November 2009 at 17:09

It would be nice if people who support the treaty actually thought they could win the arguement. If they did they would have supported a referendum.

firsttimer
05 November 2009 at 07:38

beak,

Which argument?

My point is that there is no positive vision from the anti-EU side, or consistency in applying their objections in principle to the EU to other spheres of international cooperation - if they thought they could win THAT argument then maybe they would engage with it.

beak
05 November 2009 at 17:21

Why does poll after poll say that the British public do not want any further integration? Have you got your head in the sand? I would happily support an EU that worked together on major issues but retained national soveriegnty. What i will not accept is an EU that treats the democracy with contempt, continue's to centralise and drags power from our parliament. The voice of the British peopl on Europe contine's to go unheard. You have to be over 50 to have had a say on it.

firsttimer
06 November 2009 at 11:02

Because they are being willfully misled about the reasons for cooperation and integration, as well as the consequences of withdrawal?

What national sovereignty have we not retained that you object to?

What powers do you object to?

The voice of the British people is expressed through elections - anti-EU parties continue to be marginal.

What is your vision for Britain outside the EU?

Anyone can say they are against something - what are you in favour of?

Former subscriber
07 November 2009 at 07:10

It is poisonous bias like this that caused me to cancel my subscription.

Labour has continuously lied to us with regard the referendum. At least we are fast approaching the point where the voting public WILL get the chance to make their feelings known. Gordon and co will feel the wrath of the electorate at the ballot box for their contemptuous behaviour towards us.