Alex Salmond is the winner from the Scottish independence referendum deal
The agreement to hold the vote in 2014 is a major victory for the Scottish First Minister.
By George Eaton Published 15 October 2012 14:34
Commentators were quick to declare David Cameron the winner from the Scottish independence referendum deal, but it's actually Alex Salmond who has gained the most. As a result of the agreement, the Scottish First Minister will be able to hold the referendum in 2014, his long preferred date. The UK government originally insisted that it would only give Scotland the legal authority to stage a binding vote if it was held by September 2013, but it dropped this demand in return for Salmond agreeing to a one-question referendum. While Salmond would have preferred a "devo-max" option to be included on the ballot paper (as a potential consolation prize), the decision to postpone the vote until 2014 (the SNP has until the end of that year) gives him what he needs most: time.
With the Yes campaign trailing by 25-points in the latest poll, Salmond now has more than two years to bring the voters round to his side. By 2014, he hopes that the full force of the coalition's austerity measures, most of which have yet to be implemented, will have persuaded Scotland that the time is right to go it alone. With the Queen's Diamond Jubilee and the Olympics, Salmond always knew that 2012 would be a tough year for the independence cause. But 2014, which will see Scotland celebrate the 700th anniversary of the Battle of Bannockburn and host the Commonwealth games and the Ryder Cup, will provide multiple opportunities for the SNP to stoke nationalist fervour.
While the decision to allow 16 and 17-year-olds to vote is of little significance (polls suggest that they are as opposed to independence as the rest of the Scottish public), Cameron's willingness to allow Salmond to delay the vote until 2014 is a major concession. After a year which has seen the odds continually lengthen against independence, the SNP finally has some cause for hope.
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36 comments
I wonder how much the extended time for persuasion will really help as opposed to turn us off in droves. I was undecided, but now apart from an emotional aspect can really see nothing persuasive about independence. What is more strange is the amount of time the SNP have had and signally failed to use to smooth the transitional plans and post- independence alliances and arrangements. To assume that membership of the EU was a given on the coattails of the UK membership is risible. To not have made negotiation of nuclear armaments disposal concrete ; NATO membership and the share of the banking debts clear are just some of the glaring omissions.
Essentially, Salmond strikes me as a politician for the Big Oppositional Rallying Cry rather than a leader and strategist of anything more substantial and crucial to the daily lives of us Scots. His relationship with Murdoch makes my skin crawl; his fundamentally wrong calls on RBS and the calamitous banking collapse and the AMRO take over were all horrendous. His smarm-fest with Donald Trump seems to have finished him off as a serious man of integrity in my eyes. He's just not good enough to instill confidence in me, and his ideas are so half-baked as to be frightening. And, all this from a neo-liberalist banker? Who''d have thunk it!
I wonder how much the extended time for persuasion will really help as opposed to turn us off in droves. I was undecided, but now apart from an emotional aspect can really see nothing persuasive about independence. What is more strange is the amount of time the SNP have had and signally failed to use to smooth the transitional plans and post- independence alliances and arrangements. To assume that membership of the EU was a given on the coattails of the UK membership is risible. To not have made negotiation of nuclear armaments disposal concrete ; NATO membership and the share of the banking debts clear are just some of the glaring omissions.
Essentially, Salmond strikes me as a politician for the Big Oppositional Rallying Cry rather than a leader and strategist of anything more substantial and crucial to the daily lives of us Scots. His relationship with Murdoch makes my skin crawl; his fundamentally wrong calls on RBS and the calamitous banking collapse and the AMRO take over were all horrendous. His smarm-fest with Donald Trump seems to have finished him off as a serious man of integrity in my eyes. He's just not good enough to instill confidence in me, and his ideas are so half-baked as to be frightening. And, all this from a neo-liberalist banker? Who''d have thunk it!
I take your well made points Susan Galea, it's not as if he hasn't had the time to ponder explore and offer a olution to all of these questions and more. It wasn't just his airy wave of the arm to dismiss opposition points, it was his e-mail to Fred at RBS, friendship with Donald till it all went wrong and his trip to the premiere of a cartoon film at tax payers expense, he's no different than Tone Gord and call me Dave.
I wonder how much the extended time for persuasion will really help as opposed to turn us off in droves. I was undecided, but now apart from an emotional aspect can really see nothing persuasive about independence. What is more strange is the amount of time the SNP have had and signally failed to use to smooth the transitional plans and post- independence alliances and arrangements. To assume that membership of the EU was a given on the coattails of the UK membership is risible. To not have made negotiation of nuclear armaments disposal concrete ; NATO membership and the share of the banking debts clear are just some of the glaring omissions.
Essentially, Salmond strikes me as a politician for the Big Oppositional Rallying Cry rather than a leader and strategist of anything more substantial and crucial to the daily lives of we Scots. His relationship with Murdoch makes my skin crawl; his fundamentally wrong calls on RBS and the calamitous banking collapse and the AMRO take over were all horrendous. His smarm-fest with Donald Trump seems to have finished him off as a serious man of integrity in my eyes. He's just not good enough to instill confidence in me, and his ideas are so half-baked as to be frightening. And, all this from a neo-liberalist banker? Who''d have thunk it!
Don't have to like Salmond to vote for independence. Voting for a constitutional change not a leader. It's the best way to stop the onslaught from the right. Under current arrangements there is no meaningful political choice in UK.
You can either have seriously right wing or a more moderate right wing party. The status quo is just not good enough anymore. Anybody who cares about social justice should want to take the opportunity to make a real change.
Scottish politics is too different from English politics for current set up to work for both countries.
@ Mcdonaldish: Jesus wept!!! Just the type of nationalist belligerence I was referring too.
Yes, there will be the 700th anniversary of some obscure battle in 2014, and the Commonwealth games - but what else? 100 years First World War, 75 years Second World War, both thoroughly British events, and the football world championships in Brazil in which Scotland will in all likelyhood not be a participant. Does Eaton really think the Scots are such a quaint bunch that they put their future in the hands of King Alex because of some medieval skirmish and a not very exciting sports event in Glasgow?
And another thing- who apart from Salmond could you say strikes you as a halfway decent politician within the SNP ranks? Jesus HC if the SNP do achieve independence then I suppose we Scots can just sit about, play XBox and eat pies!!
Jeeze. Have we not heard enough of this cringe-making type of comment?
Strikes me that I would rather have our elected politicians running things than some ex-Bullingdon Club types cutting the incomes of the poorest folk in society.
But flinging silly barbs at the SNP would take priority obviously, especially if you were in the "Scottish" Labour Party...
Jeeze. Have we not heard enough of this cringe-making type of comment?
Strikes me that I would rather have our elected politicians running things than some ex-Bullingdon Club types cutting the incomes of the poorest folk in society.
But flinging silly barbs at the SNP would take priority obviously, especially if you were in the "Scottish" Labour Party...
Most of us decent, working Scots who actually contribute to the economy wish that king Salmond would just piss off and take his leftier than thou sloganeering and belligerent nationalism with him.
That puffed up arse would give the vote to toddlers if he thought it would deliver independence!!
So Salmond thinks that, after Tory troubles, his SNP will provide a better prospect to Scots than Labour. I wonder, who has the greater challenge.
As a scot living in England for the last 10 years i view scottish issues with a slightly distant eye. The basic reason for independence is so a government elected in england is not imposed on scotland. This come around at every tory government due to the lack of scottish tory MPs.
the real issue for the scottish people will be whether they will be worse off alone and if so is it worth it? every time cameron talks on the issue more people will vote Yes. everytime Ed miliband speaks on the issue more people will vote yes. every time alex salmond speaks more people will vote no. so not an easy time but a win/win for the tories as even if they lose scotland they are elected in england for the next 30 years as they will not need to contend with scottish labour MPs. another commenter suggested a shady deal between salmond and cameron on the 2015 election which is quite interesting but will gain no credence until something actually happens to reinforce the thought.
Well Paul johnston, as a Scot living in England these last ten years, you haven't been very observant. The Tories have 18 times as many Scottish MPs in England as they do in Scotland. We English being fair and tolerant observe this with amusement!
If the SNP lose the referendum, I believe that they and UKIP will hold the balance of power now that UKIP have opened up a 3% lead over the Lib/Dems. Oh what fun days 2015 could then be!
The question really is why has Salmond got nearly all he wants? What has he promised to Cameron in private? Remember that in 2015 the SNP, having lost the referendum, could hold the balance of power in the new UK Parliament. If this happens don't expect a Labour led government to emerge.
So refreshing, after the dark lost years of Labour, to see a true man, a bold man, like David Cameron stand up and fight for Britain.
Yes it means he will struggle to get a Conservative majority, if Scotland stays within the UK, however so good to see someone acting in our nations best interests.
Where was that useless idiot Brown? Or and the eqaully useless idiot Blair? Oh Yes.....we know...feathering their own nests. Despicable.
With David, at last, we have a man prepared to fight for Britain...and he will make mincemeat of that disgusting Alex Salmond...you watch.
Comrades, join us, the revolution is just beginning!
You've just made me laugh so much it hurts.
I laughed out loud reading that. Thank you. The man who couldn't win a ge against the most unpopular sitting PM and after the longest Labour government ever. If Cameron really understood Scottish politics he'd know that his every intervention could only benefit yes campaign.
Thankfully, his ego can't allow him to keep his contribution to a minimum.
Don't discourage McCameron. He is a man of profound wisdom with an important message for us Scots. I shall be writing to BBC Scotland emphasising the need to give him a weekly slot to address us all from now till 2014.
Your quite right. He raises the level debate with his honesty and perspective
You really are hilarious. Ever thought of becoming a stand up?
And the winner is David Cameron
He gave the Scots their referendum which is more than likely to say NO and he will campaign on that basis.
If they say YES then Labour loses 40 plus MP's and probably power for the indefinite future in the rest of the UK.
I would get my troops out in Scotland if I were Ted Miliband, but he might have to look hard to find Gordon Brown. On second thoughts don't bother, it won't help the YES argument anyway.
i have lost the will to live.
or EDL!!!
The man waving the white piece of paper , he with a Scottish surname and a clan to follow, well he is happy. He has got off the plane after visiting his homeland and now he can invest in his lands, where he feels strong attachment towards.
McCameron, McBlair and McBrown saviour's of the Scots.
Remember if you talk of English National Pride you get lumped with the anal flotilla calling themselves BNP or EDF.
I'm sure you'll be glad to be rid of us. Don't worry, it'll be soon. Cameron is very much more English than Scottish by the way. Born in England, grew up in England, went to an English public school and spent all his adult life in England. I think he's English
Benjamin Rae
I think and hope you'll find that as all four of his Grandparents are Scottish, which makes him Scottish you have to take him with you when you leave the UK. Please shut the door!
It is ironic that the SNP want independence and still be a member of the EU. Salmond has botched the whole idea of being in the EU by promising that an independent Scotland would remain in the EU, eventhough the EU have never guaranteed automatic membership.
Well, increasingly it looks as if Scotland has a better chance of being in the EU if it's independent rather than part of the UK wether entry is automatic or not.
You're a complete idiot if you sincerely believe Salmond wanted anything other than a single question referendum. The SNP repeated that a single question referendum was their preferred option so many times that it became hidden in plain sight. Just goes to show how mind numbingly stupid the majority of 'commentators' are.
All that Salmond wants is to have the deal of cards to make his own multinational dealers abroad happy, nothing more and nothing less. He is a strong on Scotland as Longshanks was and as loyal as an Hammer of the Scots to the people there.
I love Scotland, love the people in the highlands and in the lowlands, I just think he is an estate agent that wants his name on the shop front, even if all his family are not Scottish in intent for the future.
Just wait until he gazzumps the estate charges to make his rich friends from Europe and St Elsewhere richer, and the Scottish people poorer.
Come back on this one in twenty years time if you do not believe the above and prove me wrong.
If I've got this straight your suggesting that Salmond is more keen to please wealthy than Cameron. I think your kidding yourself if your are seriously saying that.
Because there's been no 'stoking of nationalist fervour' during the past 6 months? Union Jacks don't count as nationalism apparently. Salmond quite rightly wants to show the true colours of UK politics in full by allowing another two years for the full force of right wing, market fundementalism to bite.
Then Scotland will have a stark choice. Carry on the same road with either Labour or Tory governments or go a different route not plotted by right wing governments out of Westminster.
If Labour had remained a social Democratic Party then I probably would not have been that bothered about independence. But enough is enough. The right wing have an iron grip on UK politics and their monopoly needs breaking
Contrary to popular opinion outside Scotland, the Yes campaign is not interested in Bannockburn and 'nationalist fervour'. The case for Scottish independence is about a fairer, greener, progressive Scotland which simply has the same status as every other country.
We don't live in tartan clad houses with Braveheart on a constant repeat cycle. Scots do want their country to be fairer and healthier - the debate will be about which constitutional outcome can best deliver that.
Increase enthusiasm for self-determination, or "stoke nationalist fervour".
I wonder which side of the argument the NS is on, eh?
Just wondering if the Jubilee, Olympics, etc, also "stoked nationalist fervour"?
Is there not a British nationalism that can also be referred to in such terms? Terms that suggest nationalism is a wild, unreasonable, fiery thing?