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Iran Watch, part 5 - a response to some nonsense from Guido Fawkes.
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Tags: Iran Watch Israel Nuclear Iran
Oh the wonderful Israelis, the last time we, the British had a just war to fight 1982 against the Argentine Junta in the Falklands, we managed to beat them before the Israeli arms and supplies got there.
Stop trying to kid everyone on here what wonderful people like Menachem Begin and his pals were and are like!
Rosalind, do I have to like things about Mehdi or am I allowed to speak freely about what I consider to be his ulterior motives without being label a racist, hate monger or bigot? If he was white, would I have the freedom to give a similar insight without you playing the race card against me? I do disagree with his points but I respect his freedom to say such things. And even though I think they are wrong I expect the same freedom to put my views forward whether you like them or not.
I am a young energetic writer too, and also brown, but a non-Muslim but of a minority faith, what’s your point? Do I now have the right to argue against him? Have I got the required tick boxes?
What value do I hold on the opposite side??? I don’t support Sharia, promote Islamic or other religious values, what are you saying?
I have met Muslims and Arabs, yes. I love all people regardless of race or religion except those who hate me, want to hurt me and my family and those who want to enforce there beliefs and control systems onto me to reduce my freedom or choice and conscience . It’s not me who is filled with Hate and spite e.g. If mention a Muslim has blown himself up and killed x amount of people, and say something like, why are Muslims committing so many acts of terror, isn’t it terrible – it is me who becomes to hate monger, not the person blowing himself up...crazy??
Northern Ireland and Islamic Jew Hatred are 2 different things, the former had a tangible way of resolution, Jew’s have been killed and persecuted by Muslims since Muslims came into being and long before the state of Israel was born in 1948 and the Fakestinian and disputed territories narrative.
I think your statement of sitting down with your enemies to become your friends is an extremely noble idea but in reality its naive and maybe abet nonsensical considering the reality of the Iranian regime. Unfortunately you don’t really understand or know of the true hatred throughout the Muslim world for Jews/Israel even though over 10 Million Muslims have died at the hands of fellow Muslims since 1948, its whenever Israel does anything or the West that the outrage starts from the Islamic world, never when Muslims kill their own, hypocrisy??
"Science and technology in Israel
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia"
great, thanks for posting the entire Wiki entry on several threads. not exactly sure what you mean to imply, but he who lives by the list will die buy the list. seems you find it hugely significant that so many Jews have won a Nobel prize. but let's imagine that it is seriously significant, and then dig into that data.
so what do we see? that a tiny minority of these Jewish Nobel laureates are female. which using your logic means that Jewish men are vastly superior to Jewish women.
is that what you believe is the case? after all it's what we can conclude from your list...
Bolshevik - ". If Israel's wholly justified attack on Osirak in 1981 caused an acceleration of sadaam Husseins' drive toward nuclear capability - why didn't Sadaam Hussein have the bomb during the first Gulf War?"
Because nukes aren't like toasters. It takes some considerable resources and technology to even come close to that sort of capability.
"Perhaps Marielle can enlighten as to one community (with the exception of the Eskimos) that Islam is not at war with?"
Read this please:
Your oversimplistic caricature of one fifth of the worlds population is intellectually offensive.
Trouble is PP is that they are not making themsleves known on this blog page.
Hang on a sec – do you mean to say that Saddam Hussein – that well known unilateralist – was actually pulling our legs when he claimed to have renounced any interest in WMD?
Well blow me – just as well we never found out for sure, eh Mehdi.
It is clear on this and other NS postings that the pro Zionist lobby have a clear agenda: blind and unconditional support of Israel, coupled with a pathological denial of Palestinian rights. Even if facts are presented which present an alternative narrative, they would still reject it. The Pro Zionist lobby are still hiding behind the same old tired myths that they have used since the creation of the state of Israel. Israel never tires of inventing enemies. Iran is just one of a long list of adversaries. It is clear too that the banal balnket statements made about the world Muslim community are incredibly ill informed. The trurh is that we cannot seaprate Israel's rhetoric on Iran from its refusal to dear fairly with the Palestinian question.
The world has moved on since the time when Israel could dominate the news media. Israeli leaders seem determined to take Israel and the rest of the world to the brink. Which country is going to have the political courage to stand up and say ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.
You have proved my point for me. You are a one treck pony with a pathological hatred of all things Muslim. You claim not to be racist but then make one sweeping generalisation after the other about Arabs, Muslims and the Iranian people. You don't strike me as being youung and energetic; all your focus seems to be on hating the other side and spewing forth bitterness. Have you not fulfilled your dreamns Julia. You also seem to be suffering from a persecution complex which you are projecting onto Mehdi. If you are really brown or non White than all I can say is shame on you for letting down the brown race. Your comments about Northern Ireland betray your ignorance. Again it just reinforces the racial stereotype that all Arabs and Muslim are irrational, blood sucking enemies.
Clearly you find it easier to hate rather than to love, to heap opprobrium on your alleged enemies instead of trying to understand. If you were dying of cancer and an Iranian SHia Muslim offered up his kidney in order that you could live, woculd you accept it.
Watch and Weep Julia. You've been FRAMED!!!
Anti-Jihadist, Freedom Fighter, Zionist, Find me on the New Statesman site dismantling articles against Israel and that are Pro Islamic from Mehdi Hassan etc
Earth · http://extremecentre.wordpress.com/
The reason I posted this is that Mariella question what Israel's contributions, or some other term she used, I am not sure which, in the Middle East region were. I said that these contributions were not only to the region, but to the world at large. This has nothing to do with any kind of superiority, merely responding to her query
I am in need of the facts about Israel's contribution to the Middle East region.
Many do Mariella, Egypt, Iran, Iraq, Lebanon, Syria, Libya, Jordan aka Palestine, Saudi, etc etc...see the pattern?? Fortunately most of the sane and rationale (free and non Islamic countries) support the Great and Mighty Israel - who you Mariella my little pet are so so Jealous off :))
"Which country is going to have the political courage to stand up and say ENOUGH IS ENOUGH."
@ Steve E - LOL
@ Mr Danger - Quite right, Mehdi always writes blinkered, Biased and immature articles, he's like an insecure little bully. I think they must have beat him too much in Madrasah.
It is abundantly clear that the Islamist/MPAC lobby have a clear agenda. Blind pathological hatred of the democratic state of Israel. And blind, unconditional support for Islamofascist and apartheid regimes such as Iran and Pakistan. The refusal of Mariella/Arminius/Jackass to offer a single word of criticism of Hamas which boasts in Article 7 of their racist Charter an intention to KILL ALL JEWS demonstrates how out of touch and fanatical the Islamist lobby is in the UK.
Nobody buys your lies!!!
I see that Rosalind totally distorts what Julia says. Well, this is how this side argues - by distorting things. This is how they operate.
You want to know who prevented Saddam from getting his hands on a nuclear weapon? Saddam. Thankfully he was insane enough to attempt an annexation of Kuwait before he had a nuclear weapon, because if he had waited, the international arena would have taken a decisive turn for the worst in 1991/92.
It's strange that nobody in the anti-war movement wants to take responsibility for the fact that if their advice had been followed in 1991, Saddam Hussein would have had possession of a nuclear weapon, and would still have possession of Kuwait, if he was still alive.
I agree with the tone of Mehdi's articles, as well. Whinging, immature and become a chore to read after the first sentence.
I have just completed a quick scroll through some of the postings and I can see that Alexander has been prolific in my absence. How did I know without even reading some of his postings, apart from the headline, what he would say in advance. His strategy to deny, to absolve Israel from any criticism is what I would call part of the Palestinian shoah(calamity). Alexander cannot acknowledge the fact that a terrible tragedy has befallen the Palestinian people.
I thought the point made about South Africa was apt. Israel despite the entire world opinion being against South Africa, was the only state to support it to the very end (with arms and nuclear techonology expertise).
They can copy, they can paste, they can cite one pro Zionist website after another but they cannot deny the voice of those, who refuse to accept blindly the Zionist narrative. One by one over the years, myths about the Zionist state have been dispelled and rejected by fair minded people. However the Zionist supporters on this page seem not have moved on and are still trapped in a paradigm of some fantasy cuckoo land of ancient bibilical times
@ sir Michael
'Read this please:
Very interesting link.Everyone here should read.
You really do come up with the most banal and simplistic comments. I see nothing of merit in what you say. You would only be happy like most of your Zionist cohorts if criticism of Israel was banned.
Yes, JJ, as I said before, I thought Mariella was bad enough, but these news ones have eclipsed her by far. Not even so much on this page, but on the 'Answering John Rentoul" page they have really shown their true colors. Long live Israel, indeed! And it will.
No, I do not hate Muslims and or because they are dark skinned or off a different faith. Islam is the problem and how it infects the minds of some Muslims.
I have nothing against the Iranian people, I show solidarity with the oppressed people there including students, free thinkers, gays, women, minorities, all who are oppressed by the current regime – if that makes me a racist then so be it.
I am very happy with my life and am aware of threats from Islamofacists as well as other fascist people from left and right.
There is no brown race, what planet are you on, your being racist by thinking all brown people are the same, stupid.
Explain how my NI comments are ignorant, don’t just accuse me of something without backing it up.
I didn’t use the words blood sucking, I could post some links showing Egyptian TV that tells Egyptains to hate Jews, this is what is broadcast to millions of those people most days - but it wouldn’t make any difference to you, I would still be the hate monger, correct?
They are not alleged enemies, they are real enemies, look at what happen in France today...Did I make that up???????????
If I were dying of cancer I would only accept a Kosher Kidney, no Halal meat for me... What a stupid hypothetical thing to say and what a stupid thing to try to question me on.
You sound very simple minded, immature and need to broaden your views and not be so reactionary and over emotional. You also sound abit like Marion, Mariella thingy person...
- Thanks Alex, yes lots of distortion...
Very good post, Julia, I must say that I am a neophyte in this kind of blogging, but even in this very limited amount of time I have learned their modus operandi: throwing labels at people, not listening to any facts or arguments, just continuing to rant and sloganeer. It does not surprise me any more, I take it for granted now. Still, I must say that rarely in my life have I experiences so much acrimony and meanness as in this so-called "debate". And the distortions and falsehoods! Orwell is as relevant as ever.
The Palestinian Arabs should have accepted the UN partition plan of 1947. Even Abbas said so in November 2011. See this from the Leftwing Haaretz newspaper, Carlos Stanger's piece of November 2nd, 2011:
'In his interview with Henrique Cymerman, which aired a few days ago on Israel’s Channel 2, Abbas took a second step of possibly even greater importance. He explicitly said that the Arab world and the Palestinians made a crucial error by rejecting the UN partition plan in 1947.'
'Abbas’ admission that the Palestinian people’s fate could have been dramatically different if they had made wiser decisions is crucially important, because the Palestinian denial of responsibility for their own fate has led them to a state of freeze. Instead of moving toward compromise with Israel, too many Palestinians have waited for too many years for a reversal of history. They forget that they joined an all out war against Israel in 1948 and that they need to accept the consequences of their decision.
The Middle Eastern conflict has been described masterfully in Benny Morris’ Righteous Victims, and the book’s title sums up one of the conflict’s essential aspects. Both sides insist that they are righteous. Both sides insist that they are victims forced into their deeds by the other side’s inhumanity, cruelty and intransigence. '
To Mariella etc.: I rest my case.
To Julia and Alexander: We've won the debate.
You are in danger of becoming a caricature of yourself. You simply cannot accept the fact that the days when Israel controlled and dominated the news agenda are long gone. You omit to mention that Avigdor Lieberman the current Israeli Foreign minister has called for the explusion of one fifth of the Arab Israeli population. This blind refusal to acknowledge the rights of the Palestinians is why Israel must continually create invented enemies. Israel will never relent and acknowledge the terrible crimes it has committed against the Palestinians. This fruitless and pointless war with Iran smacks of desparation. Israel is running out of enemies to fight. Israel will look incredibly foolish and weak if after all these bellicose statements, it does not attack Iran. This Iran debacle is a manufactured crisis.
You are wrong on this. A nuclear weapon cannot be manufactured in a few years. It takes several decades of research.
@ Hattie - I have probably written more on the NS website than Mehdi Hassan... I have ripped many of his articles apart and am probably the best known commentator on his threads. I will sign an autograph if you ask nicely.
20 March 2012 at 11:17
SO you know who you are then. I can't say I have heard of your work
I need to add jealousy to my list of faults, according to Julia.
The ironically named Bolshevik can't face the facts, largely, it would appear, beacuse Mehdi Hasan presents them. If anyone here displays 'blind pathological hatred' it is Bolshevik and his warmongering cronies.
Mehdi: 'a cheap, smear tactic to try and close down debate ... a perfect reflection of how poor and weak the hawks' arguments are.'
Precisely what we see under our noses on this thread (and the others). Opponents of Israel's bloody-mindedness are all woman-stoners, nazis, anti-semites, Islamofascists. It's the oldest propaganda trick in the book, and the Israeli version is particularly virulent.
@Nathaniel Myers 'Mehdi's articles, ... Whinging, immature and become a chore to read after the first sentence.
No they're not.
Great article, and great project - Iran watch.
Hello. I am apparently an antisemitic Islamic sympathizer.
Because I insist on having a memory that extends past two or three days, and when you are blindly pro-Israel like many in the US, this is a necessary defect. I also have fact-based opinions and somewhat expect others to have the same.
I have often brought this very same event up when the war drums first started against Iran. It not only draws a direct parallel but the supportive evidence seems undeniable. And yet...it is denied.
I also have a terrible habit of saying things like, "Israel broke the cease fire." & "Israel occupied Lebanon, not the other way around."
Basically, acknowledging historical facts are not allowed in order to be "pro-Israel." But foreign policy is not a football game, and one does not have to "pick a side." I think this is what it all boils down to: the rhetoric is "side" driven. "You're either with Israel or you're against us!"
In the end this is what drives antisemitism: this black and white thinking. And it's a shame because it is the demise of Zionism time and time again. After all, if you push the black and white thinking upon people & then continue to behave in a way that reflects immense cruelty (school bombings, child executions, etc) people are just going to throw up their hands be "against" you.
If Israel is to survive with America (or regain some trust in Europe) they have to be more honest & open to reform & show contrition where it is warranted.
I enjoyed the blog & reading the comments!
Helen Thomas is a jew hater. She had no right to tell Israeli Jews to get the hell out of Palestine. Who cares that people say she is a respected White House press spokeswoman of fifty years. Who cares that the zionists went on a rampage and witch-hunt, unleashing a barrage of hate against her. They were right to tell her to give back her medals for service. The only thing she is right about is that she cannot hope to get away with criticising Israel. The only wrong direction that America is being pushed into is Aethism. Aethism is the root of all evil. Amen. The sooner Israel gathers eveybody into the umbrella of Judaism, the world will be a better place.
Also, can we all be pretty honest & agree that Ahmadinejad & Hussein are completely different leaders, with vastly different profiles, influences & governing styles?
It's either out of ignorance or an attempt to "poison the well" of intellectual dialogue that anyone would assert they are comparable. And if one does it is in the face of the vast majority of international census & intelligence.
To address the Zionist lobby at work on this comment page, I would like to ask the following@
Much effort has gone on over the years to keeping the holocaust memory alive. Israelis and Jews alike rightly attach great importance to this tragedy which befell the Jewish people in Nazi Germany. If any group of people should understand suffering, it would be German Jews and their relatives.
Having said all that knowing that the Jews have suffered the holocaust, why would they then want to inflict a similar fate on the Palestinian people. Yesterday evening I attended the premier of the film, King Of Kings on Yasser Arafat. It was made clear in the film that one of the principal objectives of the Israeli state was to clear Palestinian villages of their inhabitants. Israeli forces went from village to village to achieve this goal. In the end, the villagers had nowhere else to flee and so left en masse over the borders. There is plenty of documentary footage to attest mass movement over the border.
How could the Jewish people who had just suffered the Holocaust go on to inflict mass physical explusion on a defenceless people. Of all peoples in the world who should not have been involved in acts of ethnic cleansing, it is the Jewish people.
Still I cannot get one member of the Zionist brigade to acknnowledge the injustice in all this. Not one. Not one!!!
@Mariella "You would only be happy like most of your Zionist cohorts if criticism of Israel was banned"
I'm not pro-Jewish, pro-Israel or anything of the sort. In fact, I am an atheist who believes in live and let live. But this article beggars belief. Why this continued support of Iran, Mehdi? It doesn't make sense. I hate to be disrespectful but you clearly have an agenda no matter what and you clearly just cobble articles together from Google searches. Talking loudly and quickly in a sneery manner on the TV doesn't make you right. Your myopic view of Tehran is genuinely concerning.
Look at this joke of an article. According to the New York Times, the killings in France were inspired by the anti-immigrant tone in France! It is difficult to top this one. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/21/world/europe/french-school-shootings-s...
Your capacity for self deulsion knows no bounds. Trapped in a ancient time warp, you repeat time and time again the same old rhetoric about ancient Jewish entitlement to the land of Israel. The trouble is that whereas in the US mainstream media the average American is fed on a diet of Zionist propaganda, that level of monopoly has thankfully not extended to the UK. As pointed out in the article by Kevin Barrett you along with Julia and the other have been:
TRAINED TO HEAP MOUNTAINS OF HATE ON ANYONE WHO DARES TO CROSS THE LINE OF DE-LEGITIMIZING ISRAEL.
The world has moved on my friend, but you are still trapped in the past.
Another cheap shot. It is not that she expressed her opinion, but that she expressed in a hateful manner, which is incompatible with the presumed objectivity with which journalists have to conduct their business. Her previous achievements have nothing to do with that. And the criticim of her was widespread, and it came both from Jews and non-Jews. Atheism is irrelevant for this discussion. As for the world gathering under the umbrella of Judaism, you should know that, unlike Islam, for instance, Judaism does not encourage conversions and puts those converting on notice that if they were to convert their life could be much more difficult due to prejudice against Jews and Judaism.
Bolshevik - "Just as mosley's fascism was defeated on the streets of east London in the 1930's" - Here's me thinking that Zydokomuna was a myth or is it just a coincidence that someone using the name of a group which killed millions is here defending Israel. Mosley was not defeated on the streets of East London other than in the mythology of the Left. The BUF was defeated at the ballot box since it did not gain a single seat in Parliament then finally killed off when it leaders and followers were imprisoned without trial for trying to prevent Britain from going to war.
You have the Bolshevik tallent for lies and half-truths.
Valley, just to inform you that there are hardcore Muslim Quran bashers hard at work on this page with their poisonous pens. They hide behind a certain well reheased indignant line. We know who they are. We need to condemn all forms of racism against all religions, creeds and races. Who will condemn racism in all its forms.
Arminius, sometimes people we don't agree with can also state truths. Bolshevik is right: The battle of Cable Street was decisive in stopping Mosley and was the foundation for all that followed.
You also don't have to keep making snide comments about the fact that England fought Germany.
Young and energetic. Twisted, venemous and full of spite more like. To whom do I refer??? A writer in her dreams. Who would read this drivel
Breivik viewed Israel as an ally in the war against Islam
The MPAC/Islamist mob is out in full force today.
Mariella lies about Lieberman wanted to expel Israeli Arabs and is profoundly silent about moslem ethnic cleansing of:
1 million Jews from Arab lands between 1940 and 1950;
the ethnic cleansing and murder of millions of innocent Hindus and Sikhs from apartheid Pakistan;
the ethnic cleansing of Christians from Iraq, Egypt, Gaza and Bethlehem;
the murder of 400,000 Black people and ethnic cleansing of hundreds of thousands from Islamist Sudan.
Any comment Marielle or did the above simply 'not happen' in the same way that your islamofascist Ayatollahs in Iran claim the Holocaust never happened.
Cultural conservatives believe Israel has a right to protect itself against Jihad…Sensible people should support Zionism (Israeli nationalism) which is Israel’s right to self-defence against Jihad.
Ringing any bells
Anders Breivik’s embrace of Israel is the latest sign of a shift among reactionaries in Europe—with fascism and Zionism going hand in hand, fueled by Islamophobia, says Michelle Goldberg.
Anders Breivik is a Christian nationalist terrorist obsessed with preserving the “Nordic/Germanic” people. He is also an ardent Zionist.
Coming from a Scandinavian fascist, this is a remarkable sentiment. The European far right has long been rooted in Nazism, and for decades, anti-Semitism was its hallmark. But Breivik’s embrace of Israel, far from being unique, is just the latest sign of a great shift among the continent's reactionaries. Indeed, in European politics, fascism and an aggressive sort of Zionism increasingly go together.
You can see it in country after country. While Jean-Marie Le Pen, the founder of France’s ultraright Front National, is a Holocaust denier, his daughter and successor, Marine Le Pen, is working to cleanse the party of its reputation for Jew hatred, telling the Israeli newspaper Haaretz that it “has always been Zionistic.” In the early 1990s, the British National Party organized a violent neo-Nazi gang called Combat 18. In 2009, the party’s leader, Nick Griffin, boasted that his was the only British party to support Israel’s war “against the terrorists” in Gaza
need a clue!
Recognise anybody here.
I believe the holocaust to be one of the worst tragedies in human history, one that we should ALL heed and never let hatred, victimization and prejudice rule the day again. That is why I find it absolutely heartbreaking that the people of Palestine and the Israeli apartheid system must endure hatred, victimization and prejudice as if the lesson of history was never learned.
As usual, Mariella is engaged in factless verbal abuse without being able to contradict the actual facts that I have adduced. Referring to them as being taken from "Zionist websites" does not make them less factual, Mariella. Kind of axiomatic. Besides, this discussion is about Iran, not Palestinians, Mariella. Nobody is talking about Palestinian nuclear weapons, at least not yet.
@ JJ, yes we win, as usual.
The morons on the Facist Left who support the hate, violence and intolerance from the Islamo facists have no moral clarity.
They support an oppressive Ideology (Islam) that is currently infecting the whole region like a cancer to a deeper level, taking countries like Egypt into a new retrograde and medieval state, controlled via Sharia - and they have the audacity to criticize Israel, shocking.
Like his grand strategy, with its combination of unilateral American world domination with nearly indiscriminate support for Israel’s Ariel Sharon, the cult of Churchill has been adopted by Bush from American neoconservatives.Only a Canadian like Frum could claim that FDR was an appeaser, compared with Churchill. It was Churchill who, in 1937, wrote in his book Great Contemporaries, ‘One may dislike Hitler’s system and yet admire his patriotic achievement. If our country were defeated, I hope we should find a champion as indomitable to restore our courage and lead us back to our place among the nations.’
As for the Israeli connection — a familiar feature of neocon ideology — Churchill, a lifelong supporter of Zionism, was a social Darwinist who preferred Jews to Arabs. On one occasion he wrote of the legitimacy of displacing ‘the Red Indians of America or the black people of Australia. I do not admit that a wrong has been done to these people by the fact that a stronger race, a higher-grade race, a more worldly wise race, has come in and taken their place.’
Mehdi Hasan is a contributing writer for the New Statesman and the co-author of Ed: The Milibands and the Making of a Labour Leader. He was the New Statesman's senior editor (politics) from 2009-12.