Answering John Rentoul - on Iran, Israel and the never-ending nuclear debate
Iran Watch, part 6.
By Mehdi Hasan Published 14 March 2012 11:23Latest tweets
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683 comments
You still did not answer my specific question as to what your beliefs about Iran's intentions are. Readers, please take notice. In addition, I am not striving for originality. So much ink has been spilled over whether Ahmadinejad said that Israel should be "wiped off the map" but here we have a man who was appointed to one of the highest position in Iran who EXPLICITLY ADVOCATED THE USE OF NUCLEAR WEAPONS AGAINST ISRAEL. No ambiguity there. This should put an end to all debates.
Which authorities are those Alexander. All you have done is copy tedious posts from websites which have a pro Israeli agenda. You may call that substantive debate. As for resorting to medieval terminology, is that not the century in which you appear to be trapped.
@PP
As per usual you have misquoted me:
Her propaganda is worthy of the evil Goebells is how JJ described me.
Digging bunker Eva???
Israel ducking and diving to pull US into war with Iran
Netanyahu is preparing Israeli public opinion for a war on Iran
In response to Netanyahu’s AIPAC speech, Haaretz’s editor-in-chief says that what looks like a preparation for war, acts like a preparation for war, and quacks like a preparation for war, is a preparation for war.
http://jfjfp.com/?page_id=483
By Aluf Benn, Ha’aretz
05.03.12
Since his return from
Why I protested Aipac (and started a JVP chapter)
Submitted by Jesse Bacon on Tue, 09/28/2010 - 10:12am
Why I protested AIPAC (and what brought me to that point)
by Russ Greenleaf on September 27, 2010 · 6 comments
I’m not anti-Israel. I’m not a self-hating Jew. When Israel launched the Gaza war in 2008, I was a member of Brit Tzedek v’Shalom. We were committed to working politely within the Jewish community, promoting a two-state solution, stressing our pro-Israel credentials, refusing to do street protests.
I don't do God. Sad, lonely and pathetic. The case if there for eveybody to see. WHo in their right mind leading a busy life as you do, would spend everyday on the hour posting garbage. Slipping on the spelling. Time for your one man pot noodles. Get a grip mate, or are you doing that already. Toodle loo.
If what you say about Tareq Ramdan is correct, why would the University of Oxford employ him?
If you read what I had posted before, Marietta (but, of course, you cannot read) you will see that, when Rafsanjani threatened Israel with obliteration with nuclear weapons, one of the reasons he was criticized even by those sympathetic to Iran's agenda, is that he used this threat against the state which, although having nuclear weapons, has never used them or even threatened to use them, even during mortal danger to itself. This should answer your question about who presents the greatest danger. Go and take logic courses, you can find some that are quite affordable.
@benny
The reason that Iran at least pretends to engage in negotiatins is not because of its peacelike character but because of sanctions and a threat of military strike. So, this threat is already working!
Not surprising, coming from you. Clearly, this is the best you can do.
@JJ
Rather misfit than a bare faced liar. You pompous SOB. What makes you think you have anything interesting to say. Sheer babble,, bawl bawl poor me. I doubt if you could find somewhere where you could make a difference which is why you keep posting on this page. I don't scare from your one liner diatribes. Self serving prixx! Go find someone who is taken in by your shxx
@winnieppoth
Wonderful! Rabbi Weiss is a haredi who opposes Israel on ultraorthodox religious grounds. Are these your new allies? Congratulations!
@Mariella
Apologies. Still, the Goebells reference is apt wouldn't you say?
What did you think of the piece by Mr Wilders?
Alexander, my feeling is that it is pointless debating with Ronaldo. He came here with asn agenda using the slavery and holocaust as intros and then segued to the predictable slurs against Israel and the Jews. Due to the points I made he made concessions which were pure lip-service. What is admirable about him is the seemingly simplistically faux-naive way he asks questions which of course he believes to know the answer to.
He lied when he claimed that I had called myself an expert and he lied when he utterly minimised Arab involvement in slavery.
2012
Letter to the Jewish Chronicle, January 2012
Dear Sir,
Nobody was at the court case (‘Zionists always lose’ chant as SOAS cheekbiter is acquitted of assault http://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/62609/zionists-always-lose-chant-soas-...) on behalf of Jews for Justice for Palestinians, so we couldn’t have ‘gloated’, and if we had been there, we wouldn’t have. JfJfP doesn’t do ‘gloating’. Rather we grieve for the abandonment of the humanitarian values of Judaism which have been corrupted by the Israeli state’s human-rights abuses.
Yours faithfully,
Vivien Lichtenstein
http://jfjfp.com/?page_id=24915
Jewsforjustice
Alexander is a busy man. That's why he only has time to do several postings every hour on the hour since 14 March. Somebody help him please
First of all, Mariella, it is not I who says this, I am quoting others. And if Oxford employs him, so much worse for Oxford's reputation.
@Tilley: Firstly, Tilley people 'post' here, they don't blog. Mehdi Hasan is a blogger, for example. So while it's commendable that you ask your faux-naif questions, you really need to get your facts right if you want to make a contribution to the debate.
Now, Unlike people like Mariella and others like her, they do not treat blogging as a job and are not paid by their employers to blog against the Jews and Israel. Therefore, they prefer to have a life-work balance.
Also, the allusion to 'Friday night' was of course not lost on anyone here.
Tilley, you have a problem with Jews, why not be honest about it?
Heaven knows how your brain will process the fact that this post appears on a Saturday...
As I said, I do not need help from you. As for my time, I think it is up to decide how I spend it. I do not remember delving into the issue of how you spend your own time. Believe me, I would rather have spent time otherwise, debating fanatics does not give me much pleasure. However, I just could not remain silent seeing all these falsifications. I do not want others to be misled.
If you read what I had posted before, Alexander, you will see that Rafsanjani did not threaten Israel with obliteration with nuclear weapons. Despite my invitation yesterday you have failed to substantiate this claim as the quote you thoughtfully provided referred to nothing more than a deterrent effect leading to a "stalemate".
Accusation of Organ Theft Stokes Ire in Israel. ISRAELIS ACCUSED OF STEALING ORGANS OF PALESTINIANS
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/24/world/middleeast/24mideast.html
@martin
"Yet racism exists within Israel unabashed, far more than in any other country of the world"> Amazing. So, if you must forgotten what happened, for example, in Rwanda or Yugoslavia, how many people there were killed for ethnic reasons there? And Israel is more racist? Shame on you!
I always think of him as rent -a- tool
http://articles.cnn.com/2009-12-21/world/israel.organs_1_organs-harveste...
Activists protest Swedish journalist Donald Bostrom, who accused Israel of stealing organs from dead Palestinians.
Israel harvested organs from bodies in the 1990s without permission of family members, the former head of a state-run forensic laboratory said in a newly released interview.
Government officials acknowledge that the practice happened, but emphasize that it ended years ago.
In an interview in 2000, which was released to an Israeli TV channel and broadcast over the weekend, Dr. Yehuda Hiss -- who was once head of the Abu Kabir forensic institute -- discussed the practice.
"We started to harvest corneas for various hospitals in Israel," Hiss said in the interview on Israel's Channel 2 network.
“That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbour. That is the whole Torah, the rest is commentary.”
RABBI HILLEL
WE BELIEVE THAT
Peace in the Middle East will only come about with mutual recognition and respect and must be seen as just by both sides.
Peace requires the end of illegal occupation and settlement.
Violence against civilians is unacceptable.
Israel’s policies in the West Bank and Gaza are breeding hatred and resentment.
It is crucial that Jews speak out for Palestinians’ human rights.
The humanitarian values of Judaism have been corrupted by the Israeli state’s human-rights abuses.
A lasting peace must be seen as just by both sides.
Britain, the EU, the USA, Russia and the UN must be persuaded to implement UN resolutions on Palestine.
IF YOU AGREE then link up with over one thousand six hundred other Jews in Britain who make up Jews for Justice for Palestinians
The Torah teaches: ‘Justice, justice, you shall pursue’ (Deuteronomy 16:20).
To secure a lasting settlement to the conflict between Palestinians and Israelis so they can live in peace and security, thrive side by side, and co-operate together, Jews today are obligated to pursue justice on behalf of both peoples.”
RABBI ELIZABETH TIKVAH SARAH
WHO WE ARE
Jews for Justice for Palestinians is a network of Jews who are British or live in Britain, practising and secular, Zionist and not. We oppose Israeli policies that undermine the livelihoods, human, civil and political rights of the Palestinian people.
We support the right of Israelis to live in freedom and security within Israel’s 1967 borders.
As well as organising to ensure that Jewish opinions critical of Israeli policy are heard in Britain, we extend support to Palestinians trapped in the spiral of violence and repression. We believe that such actions are important in countering antisemitism and the claim that opposition to Israel’s destructive policies is itself antisemitic.
We cooperate with other organisations on specific issues without necessarily endorsing everything they do.
We work to build world-wide Jewish opposition to the Israeli Occupation, with like-minded groups around the world and are a founding member of European Jews for a Just Peace, a federation of Jewish groups in ten European countries whose principles include:
condemnation of all violence against civilians in the conflict, no matter by whom it is carried out;
recognition of Israel’s 1967 ‘green line’ borders;
commitment to the Palestinians’ right to a state in the West Bank, East Jerusalem and Gaza;
calling on Israel to acknowledge its part in the creation of the Palestinian refugee problem and its obligation to negotiate a just, fair and practical resolution of the issue.
“Israel must withdraw from all the settlements and dismantle the wall within Palestinian territory.
Then, perhaps, we may at last see some justice for Palestinians.”
MIRIAM KARLIN OBE
At the end of 2010, our over 1,600 signatories included six rabbis; 110 professors (including five Fellows of the Royal Society and two fellows of the British Academy); 150 medical and academic doctors; several OBEs, CBEs and MBEs, six knights, one Member of Parliament and one member of the House of Lords.
The list includes Helen Bamber OBE, Prof Zygmunt Bauman, Sir Geoffrey Bindman, Rex Bloomstein, Sir Anthony Caro, Prof Stan Cohen, Jenny Diski, Moris Farhi MBE, Bella Freud, Stephen Fry, Prof Eric Hobsbawm, Dr Julian Huppert MP, Sir Nicholas Hytner, Prof Mary Kaldor, Miriam Karlin OBE, Nicolas Kent, Beeban Kidron, Baroness Oona King, Prof Francesca Klug OBE, Mike Leigh, Miriam Margolyes OBE, Mike Marqusee, Dr Jonathan Miller, Rabbi Jeffrey Newman, Sophie Okonedo OBE, Prof Susie Orbach, Prof Jacqueline Rose FBA, Mike Rosen, Rabbi Elizabeth Tikvah Sarah, Alexei Sayle, Prof Lynne Segal, Will Self, Sir Antony Sher, Prof Avi Shlaim FBA, Gillian Slovo, Sir Tom Stoppard, Janet Suzman and Zoë Wanamaker CBE
“Jews for Justice for Palestinians gives expression to the many alternative views within the community.”
MICHAEL ROSEN
website of Jews for Justice
Don't you just love self-righteousness. Don't you just love moral masturbation.
Pray tell where and what is your truth.
@JJ "Also, the allusion to 'Friday night' was of course not lost on anyone here"
Agreed. Classic slip up - using the word Zionist but meaning Jew. The hard-core, full-time Israel-hater would never let themselves make that error.
It is sometimes difficult for us to make our voices heard within formal Jewish structures. Too often we are misrepresented as ‘traitors’, ‘self-hating Jews’, or worse. Yet among JfJfP signatories, and those who share our vision of justice for Palestinians, are Jews who play an active role in numerous synagogues and other Jewish groups. They know that their views do not compromise their identity, but enrich their commitment to Jewish life. This is true for Jews from all traditions: secular and religious, Ashkenazi and Sephardi, identifying with any or none of the denominational groups.
Despite the claims of some communal figures, there is no consensus among British Jews about the political situation in Israel and Palestine. The last authoritative research on the subject, undertaken by the UJIA in 2004, showed that 22% supported the policies of the then government of Ariel Sharon, and 28% opposed them. The views of the remaining 50% were ‘not sure’ or’ mixed’. Furthermore, 31% of British Jews described themselves as ‘often very critical’ of Israeli government policies.
For JfJfP signatories and sympathizers, honest discussion about Israel and Palestine often risks painful disagreements with family, friends and colleagues. That is why JfJfP has launched a series of grassroots initiatives designed to help British Jews who want to express their commitment to justice for Palestinians within their own communities
Please help Alexander thinks he is helping the world. He has had to take time out from his busy schedule to bring forward the truth. Don't know about you but I don't even remember much of what he said. It wasn't that memorable.
Just read my postings, Leroy. All relevant information is there.
This is what Alexander said of Julia: However, just for the record, I have nothing to be ashamed of in terms of being linked to Julia, her posts are 1,000 times more cogent, coherent, intelligent, and factual than yours. Just wanted to share with you some of Julia’s gems.
The point of calling someone Nuts or Mad is sometimes necessary as it helps us understand if the person is worth listening to or if they are being not rational.
@ Agoodword, you write alot of words but say very little in terms of substance or how and why you have arrived at your airy fairy little outburst
Mehdi is obsessed with Israel, simple. Everything Mehdi says about UN resolutions etc against Israel is bullshit. Since there is the Organisation of the Islamic Conference block of 57 countries that vote against Israel while maintaining their own barbaric ways, preventing any meaningful discussion of sharia, or of the incompatibility of the Cairo Declaration of Human Rights in Islam with the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
Uncle Sam, on planet earth you dumb fuk :) as I said Israel is always singled out, read my post, watch those clips. Other country's kill and do with they want with impunity as the Islamic despotic nations say nothing about themselves, Hypocriticy and Obsession with Israel as the only nation who can do anything wrong at the UN...
I am happy for them spout there incorrect views as I know my understanding and ideals are superior and better than there - so have no problem in putting them in there place.
Iranians made the highest number of visits to "immoral sites" on Ashura Day.
Pakistan ranked No. 1 in searches for "child sex," "animal sex," "rape sex," "camel sex," "dog sex," "rape video."
Israeli Organ Stealing - Harvesting
Haitian Body Parts?
By Stephen Lendman
1-26-10http://rense.com/general89/harv.htm
CNN Confirms Human Organ Theft In Haiti, Who’s Responsible
Hate to say it
“There is trafficking in children and human organs in the aftermath of the earthquake that devastated parts of Haiti, There is organ trafficking for children and other persons also, because they need all types of organs,” Haitian Prime Minister Jean-Max Bellerive said Wednesday in an exclusive interview with CNN’s Christiane Amanpour.
European Jewish aid ship bound for Gaza ready to sail
Kate Katzenstein-Leiterer, a leader of the German Jewish Voice organization, said the trip being managed by Jews for Justice for Palestinians (JfJfP), a British group. The Jewish activists were already on board, she said, but would not reveal their port of departure.
http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/european-jewish-aid-ship-bound-for-g...
Easy to be an armchair theorist, bit more difficult doing the real battle stuff. You seem like a front line man, down there in the trenches fighting the Nazis were you.
JVP Rabbinical Council Says No to an Attack on Iran!
Posted on March 8, 2012by Rabbi Brant Rosen
We, the undersigned American Jewish clergy, are deeply concerned about reports that Prime Minister Netanyahu will demand of President Obama, at their meeting at the White House today, that either the United States attack Iran, or else, Israel will.
We do not welcome the prospect of a nuclear-armed Iran. We call on all the military forces in the region – including Israel’s – to divest themselves of their nuclear armaments and renounce any belligerent nuclear aspirations.
The State of Israel refuses to acknowledge its own nuclear arsenal or to submit to international monitoring. We believe it is hypocritical of Israel to demand of Iran what it refuses to agree to itself.
Most of the people of the State of Israel oppose Prime Minister Netanyahu’s military threats against Iran. They fear the consequences of an attack on Iran. As Jewish leaders, we too believe that the path of wisdom towards achieving peace and stability in the region is through dialog and engagement and not through acts of war. We call on the United States government to safeguard the interests of the people of Israel and Iran.
Nine years after the United States launched a war against Iraq that is widely recognized as having been badly executed and unjustified, Israel would have the U.S. implicate itself in a new war in the region, this time against Iran. We believe that Jews, and other Americans, will not support more reckless adventurism in the Middle East.
In this election year, we call on President Obama not to give in to warmongering. As Jewish leaders we cannot endorse an Israeli act of war against the people of the Islamic Republic of Iran. The Bible teaches us: “bakesh shalom v’rodfehu - seek peace and pursue it.” We urge President Obama to stand firm and to use his power as Israel’s chief supporter to draw Israel to the path of peace and justice.
Cantor Michael Davis, Evanston, IL
Rabbi Jeremy Milgrom, Re’ut, Israel
Rabbi Rebecca Lillian, Malmö, Sweden
Rabbi Rachel Barenblatt, Lanesboro, MA
Rabbi Brant Rosen, Evanston, IL
Rabbi Rebecca Alpert, Philadelphia, PA
Rabbi Julie Greenberg, Philadelphia, PA
Rabbi Margaret Holub, Albion, CA
Rabbi Shai Gluskin, Philadelphia, PA
Rabbi Zev-Hayyim Feyer, Claremont, CA
Michael Ramberg, Rabbinical Student, RRC, Philadelphia, PA
Rabbi Joseph Berman, Jamaica Plain, MA
Alana Alpert, Rabbinical Student, Hebrew College, Boston, MA
Rabbi Lynn Gottlieb, Stony Point, NY
Rabbi Howard Cohen, Bennington, VT
Rabbi Brian Walt, West Tisbury, MA
Rabbi David Mivasair, Vancouver, BC
Rabbi Eyal Levinson, Israel, OT
Rabbi Alissa Wise, Oakland, CA
Rabbi Laurie Zimmerman, Madison, WI
If you had bad memory not to remember anything despite your intense search for my postings, this is not my fault.
http://www.haaretz.com/news/national/interpol-hunts-two-israelis-for-kos...
Interpol hunts two Israelis for Kosovo organ trafficking
Moshe Harel among seven indicted for membership of a criminal group trafficking people into Kosovo to remove human organs for transplant; another Israeli citizen, Zaki Shapira, identified as co-conspirator.
By The Associated Press
Your're inconsequential mate. How is that busy schedule of yours going. Must be hard trying to fit in all your commitments. You never said what was your army rank; were you on the frontline or cowering on the sidelines.
So you would know better than the University of Oxford. SO let me get this right Oxford University's reputation has been made worse by the employment of Tareq Ramadan.
SO there you have it . Great words of wisdom from Alexander.
Keep digging!!!
There you go again peddling another one of your old myths about Rafsanjani. Why don't you answer the question that Olijaan posed instead of coming up with these pointless diatribes.
Industrial scale of Israeli organ theft. Netcare, the biggest health care provider in South Africa, has pleaded guilty to charges of performing illegal kidney transplant operations using Israeli-linked organ trafficking syndicate.
In return for charges being dropped against Netcare's Chief Executive Richard Friedland, the firm acknowledged in a plea bargain that, "payments must have been made to the donors for their kidneys, and that certain of the kidney donors were minors at the time that their kidneys were removed."
The suit follows a seven-year investigation into the illegal operations at St. Augustine's Hospital in Durban in association with an Israeli-linked organ trafficking syndicate.
According to reports, while organs had originally been sourced from Israeli citizens, they were later obtained from poor Romanians and Brazilians at a lower cost.
According to prosecutors, the Israelis were paid about USD 20,000 for their kidneys, while the Brazilians and Romanians were paid an average of USD 6,000.
Other related reports surfaced regarding 25,000 Ukrainian children who had been brought to Israel over the past two years to be used by Israeli medical centers for their "spare parts."
Additionally, the Israeli military was accused of stealing the organs of Palestinian prisoners.
The illegal operations in South Africa included the removal of organs from five children.
The Torah Demands Justice for the Palestinians
Presented by Rabbi Dovid Weiss of NKI
At Time Square in Manhattan
on Friday afternoon, June 1, 2001.
With the Creator's help, may my words and those of all the speakers today - help sanctify the name of G-d.
Daily tales of horror, reach us every day from the Holy Land. Innocent people, Palestinians and also Jews all suffer.
We of Neturei Karta have
@Alexander: I'm also wondering where have these misfits come from. They actually sound like EDL or BNP. But some of them are Nation of Islam from the US. It's all very strange.
Then you had those with the Jewish sounding monikers...
@Mariella
What about the Wilders piece?
Come on, you're against injustice so you may feel he doesn't go far enough. What's your response?
Olijaan, again, if you read this excerpt you will see that Mr. Rafsanjani did not use this concept defensively. He did not say that Iran would use nuclear weapons only if attacked by Israel. To say that the strategy will reach the "stalemate" stage in view of Iran's nuclear weapons is tantamount to saying that Iran could use nuclear weapons offensively against the strategy in question. By putting this in the form he did, he endorsed this sort of use. And, again, people who criticized him for going too far, had precisely this in mind.
Israeli guilty of first US organ trafficking case
http://www.councilforthenationalinterest.org/news/the-cost-of-israel-to-...
http://www.nkusa.org/activities/speeches/nyc060101.cfm
The Torah Demands Justice for the Palestinians
Presented by Rabbi Dovid Weiss of NKI
At Time Square in Manhattan
on Friday afternoon, June 1, 2001.
With the Creator's help, may my words and those of all the speakers today - help sanctify the name of G-d.
Daily tales of horror, reach us every day from the Holy Land. Innocent people, Palestinians and also Jews all suffer.
I fail to see why this is any of your business, frankly.
@TOUSANT
I'm not sure that I would equate Islamism with fascist ideology it's not that 'sophisticated'. I would simply equate it with primitive savagery.
THIS IS WHAT YOU SAID TOUSANT. LET THE READERS JUDGE. YOUR COMMENTS ON TURKEY, PAKISTAN ET AL BELIE AN EXTREME IGNORANCE.
As for your comments on the Iranian Jewish population. All Iranians are free to come and go, including the large number of Iranian Jews who holiday on the Aegean coast in Turkey. Surely the threat of stealing property pales in comparison to fleeing to save your life. SO let me get this straight: the Jews in Iran won't leave because their property will be stolen. I seem to remember the same arguments were used about Moroccan Jews. Despite several campaigns by Israel, Iranian Jews have elected to stay put. Indeed the numbers leaving are going down. You raise the question of religious practice. In point of fact freedom of worship is enshrined in the constitution.
ISRAEL SPYING ON AMERICA
Israel features prominently in the annual FBI report called “Foreign Economic Collection and Industrial Espionage.” The 2005 report, for example, states:
“Israel has an active program to gather proprietary information within the United States. These collection activities are primarily directed at obtaining information on military systems and advanced computing applications that can be used in Israel’s sizable armaments industry.”
It adds that Israel recruits spies, uses electronic methods, and carries out computer intrusion to gain the information. The 2005 report concluded that the thefts eroded US military advantage, enabling foreign powers to obtain sophisticated defense technologies.