Answering John Rentoul - on Iran, Israel and the never-ending nuclear debate

Sun, 2012-03-18 15:18 — petrie (not verified)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dan-fleshler/why-the-jewish-right-is-t_b_8...
Why the Jewish Right Is Terrified by J Street's Conference by Dan Fleshler

Sun, 2012-03-18 15:20 — Pamela (not verified)

There are probably 25 people in the world who have enough information and experience to gauge the likelihood that Iran will develop a nuclear bomb, and --if it is intent on nuclear weapons-- when the warheads will be ready. I'm certainly not one of them. Neither are the leaders of all the American Jewish groups who have been citing the most alarmist Israeli estimates, discounting other perspectives and ratcheting up tension and fear. I wonder if the following dash of cold water from Haaretz will be reflected on their web sites:

Which Israelis Should We Believe on the Iranian Bomb? Dan Fleshler
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dan-fleshler/which-israelis-should-we_b_21...

Thu, 2012-03-15 17:27 — Mariella (not verified)

I have made a request before on this blog as to when the voices of reason within Israel are going to come forward. Otherwise we outside of Israel. only see the war mongering element of the debate.

Fri, 2012-03-16 20:51 — Christian (not verified)

All I know is that we need to teach those Iranians a lesson. Cone on, it makes sense.

Sat, 2012-03-17 16:46 — Alexander (not verified)

I am not trying to hijack anything, Freddie. Whatever you say.

Sun, 2012-03-18 15:24 — Alexander (not verified)

Again, if all that Iran is pursuing is peaceful nuclear technology, let it stop additional uranium enrichment and submit itself to inspections. What does it have to lose?

Tue, 2012-03-20 17:59 — Alexander (not verified)

I disagree with you, yesboy, but, of course, you are entitled to your opinion.

Wed, 2012-03-14 23:19 — JJ (not verified)

Er...what thread is this? Can it be that I'm posting on 4 threads concurrently?

But hey, whatever thread it is we'll still see Mehdiella popping up and defending Atzmon, Iran and the other gangsters. Some things are constant like the earth orbiting the sun.

Funny how you don't give me credit for agreeing with Dagan. Still, that's your propaganda war for you.

Thu, 2012-03-15 17:28 — D (not verified)

Olijaan

It's because most of their facts are untrue.

Fri, 2012-03-16 20:52 — Alexander (not verified)

karatekid, refering to "other Arab sta tes" shows your ignorance. Iran is not an Arab st ate

Sat, 2012-03-17 16:52 — Fredddie (not verified)

Alexander, you are a pxxck who is so far up his orifice that you cannot see what is coming out the other side. Stick to your side of the sxxt.

Sun, 2012-03-18 15:26 — petrie (not verified)

Empathy toward the Palestinian side invokes hatred and distrust

The anger at Israelis who support Palestinian independence resembles the treatment of whites who supported the black civil rights movement.
By Yael Sternhell
http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/features/empathy-toward-the-palesti...

Thu, 2012-03-15 17:30 — Alexander (not verified)

I am also outside of Israel, by the way.

Fri, 2012-03-16 20:53 — Christian (not verified)

Teach them both a lesson Israel and Iran. Inspections for both of them. Fair do's.

Wed, 2012-03-14 13:45 — Mariella (not verified)

@Martin

Clearly John Rentoul's understanding of the issues involved is either limited or he does not want to understand.

You raise an important point about the one state solution. Currently the world community seems to be behind the idea that the two state solution, though not perfect, is one practical way to address Palestinian and Israelis aspirations. That way Israelis get to keep their Jewish state; and Palestinians get to have a state in the West Bank and Gaza.

The main problem here is that Israel wants to move the goalposts all the time. Why would a country which is genuinely seeking peace with the Palestinians carrying on building settlements in the West Bank, knowing full well that the West Bank is part of the two state solution. If there is any measure which could and is killing off the peace process, it is these very settlements. Remember there are now some 500.000 settlers on the West Bank and these settlements are considered illegal under internaional law. WHy would the Israeli government persist with these settlements knowing full well they will render the Palestinian state not viable.

Indeed if Israel carries on as it is, the two state solution will not be viable and the discussion will have to be a one state solution. This is what Jenny Tonge was hinting at before she was sacked.

Where is the motivation and sincerity on the part of successive Israeli governments to have the courage to say: ENOUGH IS ENOUGH. I can only see further and protracted violence down the line. I see little chance of Palestinians getting the state they deserve. As long as the US deems it should be so, it will

Sun, 2012-03-18 15:29 — leroy (not verified)

Israel is a rogue state

which is violating over 30 UN Security Council resolutions

Israel is a rogue state. It is violating over 30 UN Security Council resolutions, dating back to 1968, resolutions that require action by Israel and Israel alone [1].

That very important fact is entirely absent from reporting on Palestine by the British and Irish media. If any other state in this world were guilty of such persistent refusal to obey the will of the “international community”, it would be subject to continuous threats of economic and/or military sanctions by the US and the EU – and we would never hear the end of it from the British and Irish media.

The Security Council resolutions being violated by Israel are listed in the Appendix below. For a correspondence with the Israeli Embassy in London on these violations see [2].

http://www.david-morrison.org.uk/palestine/israel-rogue-state.htm

Wed, 2012-03-14 23:20 — Julia Harris (not verified)

Invent Enemies - PLO? Hamas? are you saying they don't exist and are not enemies? Is that what your saying?

Raising claims about duel nationalism doesn't mean shit, so what? Lots of people in the UK have 2 passports, big deal.

I wouldn't expect everyone to like living in Israel, no country is perfect, if they want to leave, then leave, let the people who want to live in Israel stay and build it strong. Bad try at making something out of nothing, how weak and feeble.

You really are not making any good points there is an immaturity about your posts that show a lack of intellect.

Thu, 2012-03-15 17:33 — Alexander (not verified)

Mariella, your reading of Netanyahu's statement shows the same lack of logic that you have demonstrated before. There is nothing inconsistent. If Iran gets nuclear weapons, it will be too late. Therefore, Netanyahu reserves all options to prevent this from happening. However, should Iran change its mind, there will be no strike.

Fri, 2012-03-16 20:54 — JJ (not verified)

I love the pro- Arabist posters who post simple and banal one liners direct from propaganda 101, geared to influence morons.

Here's one of mine:

I wish we had more brave people like Ayaan Hirsi Ali to tell us the truth about the menace of Islamism.

See? Easy. No connection with the topic of the thread, though.

Sat, 2012-03-17 16:56 — Alexander (not verified)

The fact that you have to resort to this kind of language shows that you are not hoping to convince with the power of your arguments. Very familiar.

Thu, 2012-03-15 17:36 — Agoodword (not verified)

lets be more precise,

Israel is really a military garrison with an in house pool of soldiers.

Israel is just an adminstrative military base whose existence can only be justified through the spectre of hate, fear and violence.

without a narrative of hatred, fear, threat, mortal danger it will simply become another ordinary state, happy and reconciled with its neghbours.

It cant do that, its not in its nature, it is special, it has a special place in history. This is the luncay it was built on and feeds on.

prime example Julia.

he view of the world is framed by Spencer. A charlatan and a bigot if there was one.

what Israel and its supporters like Julaia and spencer need is a deradicalisation program.

Fri, 2012-03-16 20:55 — karatekid (not verified)

SO what is the difference, they are all Muslims to me.

Sun, 2012-03-18 15:37 — Pamela (not verified)

Throughout history, it has been the inaction of those who could have acted, the indifference of those who should have known better, the silence of the voice of justice when it mattered most, that has made it possible for evil to triumph.

KEEP SPEAKING UP AGAINST ISRAEL AND BEAR THESE WORDS IN MIND

Throughout history, it has been the inaction of those who could have acted; the indifference of those who should have known better; the silence of the voice of justice when it mattered most; that has made it possible for evil to triumph.”

Haile Selassie

Fri, 2012-03-16 10:43 — Mariella (not verified)

Alexander the Great has spoken. This is what he says@

Mariella, on the contrary, I do not feel strongly about Ramadan's appointment, I am not the one who brought his name in this debate, but I was just responding to your championing of him. Personally, I could not care less if Oxford employs or not. However, I just do not think that this does not grace this venerable institution. But if you or anybody else wish to consider this pseudo-scholar as a new Aristotle, please be my guest!

You get the drift, he not care a less and he does not have strong opinion. So far so good. He then makes several postings.

1. One of the postings is from MEF which is front organiation for AIPAC. WIthout even reading the article, you coould hazard a guess as to what the ideological line would be.
2. He then posts another where the title is 40 reasons why Tareq Ramadan is a reactionary bigot.

A reasonable man indeed!!!

Fri, 2012-03-16 20:57 — karatekid (not verified)

You are right there brov, Islam is a menace. We need a man to do a man's job. Ayaan what???

Wed, 2012-03-14 23:25 — JJ (not verified)

Ok, Mehdiella, enough is enough. Time for your cocoa and biscuits. Little kids need their rest.

Sun, 2012-03-18 15:44 — Jackamo (not verified)

@Petrie "Empathy toward the Palestinian side invokes hatred and distrust"

Empathy toward the Israeli side invokes hatred and distrust

Not really going to get anywhere are we?

Tue, 2012-03-20 18:06 — yesboy (not verified)

WHo are you to look down on me and what makes you think that I wanna listen to what you have to say. Tossxx SOB.

Wed, 2012-03-14 14:05 — Mariella (not verified)

Re. the forthcoming debate in Parliament on the Iran Nuclear issue. If the rest of the world is opposed to Israel attacking Iran's nuclear sites, should the UK be at the forefront of the call for the UN impose sanctions on Israel if it chooses to ignore world opinion.

Fri, 2012-03-16 21:01 — JJ (not verified)

Ronaldo: thankfully Blacks don't face a Holocaust now. The death of every person is a Holocaust to that person and their near and dear ones.
I don't think that the Jewish people are engaged in a competition as to 'who suffered most' as you put it.

Fri, 2012-03-16 21:03 — JJ (not verified)

Karatekid, you are a troll so why persist?

Sat, 2012-03-17 17:08 — Fredddie (not verified)

Clearly you like my Sxxt. You want more Baby. Come to me, come to me. UUh, UUH, I am really feeling it. Come on baby, come on.

Tue, 2012-03-20 18:09 — yesboy (not verified)

WHo the fxxk are you. Why you coming onto me. Do you need something. You talk shxx you sound like shit. And your listening to me! WOah.

Thu, 2012-03-15 17:45 — Alexander (not verified)

Yes, Agoodword, and the opponents of Israel are not charlatans and bigots, but great humanists Just read what the Arab and Iranian propaganda says about Jews. Nothing from the other side comes even close to that. And the reason that Israel has a big military it because it constantly has to protect itself.

Sun, 2012-03-18 15:48 — Jackamo (not verified)

@Leroy "Israel is a rogue state

Come on - admit you'd rather live there than just about any other Arab sh*thole fascist state.

Anyone for FGM - bring forth your daughters!

Thought so.

Tue, 2012-03-20 11:04 — Olijaan1

Today is the Spring Equinox and the Iranian New Year, Nowrouz (also celebrated in Central, West and South Asia and the Caucasus). The message of Nowrouz is one of peace and solidarity as well as reconciliation and neighbourliness, thus contributing to cultural friendship among peoples and various communities. Nowrouz has been recognised by the UN (through its inscription in the UN calendar) and inscribed on UNESCO's Representative List of the Intangible Cultural Heritage of Humanity. It seems the message of Nowrouz is needed more than ever, so let's not forget this message of peace, harmony and reconciliation. Saal-e no mobarak.

Sun, 2012-03-18 15:50 — Alexander (not verified)

"KEEP SPEAKING UP AGAINST ISRAEL". An interesting focus, isn't it? Not against Syria, which has slaughtered thousands of own citizens. Not against Iran, where people are tortured and sexually abused for their political opinions. Not against Morocco, where a 16-year girl committed suicide in order to be forced into marriage to a man who raped her. No, let us speak up against Israel, the only democracy in the Middle East, where people can speak their minds freely. A wonderful selection of priorities, isn't it?

Fri, 2012-03-16 21:12 — Allan Berrison (not verified)

JJ@Christian - When the lion shall lie down with the lamb

The lamb won't get much sleep.. (Woody Allen)

Fri, 2012-03-16 21:16 — Ronaldo (not verified)

You say that JJ but it seems that there are a lot of Jews in the US on the radio on the TV. They seem to be in some competition as to who suffered the most. I know a lot of black people who are scared to speak out in case they lose their jobs. I also read some stuff about how the Jews were involved in the slave trade too. That angered me.
You say that blacks don't face a holocasut now, well excuse me they do. Can you tell me why there are so many blacks in prison. I know it is not directly connected with the Israel nuke business, but it is linked in the sense that all Jews seem to want to do is cry victimhood status. It is always poor Jews, poor Israel. What about black people.? Also I don't understand what Israel has got to do with the jewish holocaust which happened in Germany.

Sun, 2012-03-18 16:03 — Jackamo (not verified)

@Alexander

Syria can kill 100,000 and the usual suspects will say nothing. Unless JEWS are involved, they couldn't care less, although they're so very keen to present themselves as passionate humanitarians.

Tue, 2012-03-20 18:15 — yesboy (not verified)

Looking down on everybody who does not agree with you. think you are part of the master race do you. Moral and intellectual bullshxxi is what yu do best.

Wed, 2012-03-14 23:41 — Parkour Pete (not verified)

@Mariella

Interesting piece by Geert Wilders on Islam which I'm sure you'll read with interest. After all he's just a tad controversial like your friend Gilad Atzmon.

http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2010/07/muslim-debate-ge...

Didn't you say earlier "Their view of the world is: its my way or no way. END OF!!!"

Fri, 2012-03-16 21:19 — Allan Berrison (not verified)

@Christian . What I do not understand is why Israel which has nuclear weapons does also not permit the Atomic Agency to inspect its nuclear weapons

Israel never signed the NPT. Nor did India or Pakistan

Wed, 2012-03-14 23:41 — Mariella (not verified)

@Julia
OMG. Admission from Julia that Israel is not perfect. I believe that 50% of Israelis have dual citizenship. That is quite a high percentage. You revert to type and I cannot imagine any person being attracted tp the cause you claim to be defending. As Kevin Barrett said:

ALL YOU CAN DO IS HEAP MOUNTAINS OF HATE ON ANYONE WHO DARES TO DISAGREE WITH YOUR POSITION. tHAT IS THE TRAINING YOU HAVE BEEN GIVEN.
I REALLY MUST BE SUFFERINF FROM LACK OF INTELLECT BECAUSE JULIA SAYS SO.

GO ON TREAT THE READERS TO ANOTHER ONE OF YOUR PRICELESS POINTLESS COPY AND PASTE NUMBERS.(THOUGH IT IS ONLY FAIR TO POINT OUT TO THE READERS THAT YOU SLIPPED OUT WHEN YOU TRIED TO PASS OFF DEAR MELANIE'S WORK AS YOUR OWN.

Sun, 2012-03-18 16:05 — Alexander (not verified)

@jackamo.

Exactly. Jackamo. Thank you.

Sun, 2012-03-18 16:09 — Saul (not verified)

Orthodox sex abuse scandal
117 kid victims and 85 arrests in Jewish enclave

By SUSAN EDELMAN
Last Updated: 6:20 AM, December 11, 2011
Posted: 12:09 AM, December 11, 2011

He looks like a movie star, but many members of Brooklyn’s Jewish community believe he is a monster.

Andrew Goodman, 27, who worked for Jewish social-service agencies, is charged with sexually abusing two Orthodox boys for years in Flatbush — one from age 11 to 15, the other from age 13 to 16.

Goodman filmed sex acts with the youngsters on a Web cam, according to the 144-count indictment, which alleges numerous violations since 2006. He has pleaded not guilty.

The handsome Goodman, who held parties in his home with liquor and child porn, also “threatened the life” of a boy who reported him to authorities, court papers and sources say

Sun, 2012-03-18 16:14 — Allan Berrison (not verified)

Oh dear, I see the MPAC brigade are out in full force.

Sun, 2012-03-18 16:15 — Haim (not verified)

One of the most high-profile convictions of an ultra-Orthodox rabbi for sexual abuse in recent times may be in danger of reversal, according to new disclosures in court records obtained by the Forward.

When Baruch Lebovits was sentenced last year to up to 32 years in jail, victims’ rights advocates hailed it as a turning point in the battle against sexual abuse in the insular Orthodox community.

Fri, 2012-03-16 21:30 — Mariella (not verified)

So why did Israel not sign the NPT or India or Pakistan. Nothing to hide as they say. I still think that Israel and Iran should both be inspected. That way we'll finish the problem

Wed, 2012-03-14 23:47 — Mariella (not verified)

It seems the capacity for hate knows no bounds. As pointed out by Kevin Barret, Gilad Atzmon offers a perfect example, with plenty of supporting arguments, of how ex-Zionist Israelis can liberate themselves from the shackles of a brutal, abusive, and ultimately doomed ideology and identity. So that’s why they hate him. He’s the walking, talking, saxaphone-blowing embodiment of the joy of life after Zionism. You see, most of the people who hate Gilad are radical Zionists;