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Tags: Palestine Ed Miliband Nick Clegg Israel
@ jamesbrownjb, where have I said I hate all Arab? Because I understand that they have been a failure to themselves and the wider region?
Ask any Arab and they will agree, its not personal, just factual.
@ Marion, what have I cut and pasted?? Go live in the middle east if you support Jew and Israel hating, you'll be in good company. Just dont come to Israel.
Tim avenell. Why are we anti Semites hateful of white middle aged men? How where when. I don't know what to say, you must speak a different language and live in a different dimension to conclude from what I've said that I'm racist and hate white middle aged men.
It must be pretty dark and scary in this parallel world. well what can I say if our media and politicians condemned your life to a constant nightmare with the muslim boogeyman out to get you. I can only say I feel sorry for you.
At least we have the new statesman to help communication between our different dimensions.
RE: What's wrong with a multi-ethnic, secular democratic state? The sharing of drinking-fountains? equality? justice?
Nothing is wrong. Start by selling it to the Czechs and Slovaks, Indians and Pakistanis, and the old Yugoslav states. Then get back to us.
Arminius, at a time when the West was showing no intent of stopping Hitler, the Soviet Union represented the only hope to many people. Many were naive, many wifully blind. Spain was a case in point.
So once again, praise for the SU doesn't exonerate Stalin.
As Churchill said:'If Hitler invaded hell I would make at least a favorable reference to the devil in the House of Commons'.
Much of what you copy and paste is designed to insult, undermine and demonise Muslims. I repeat you are a racist and a danger to the UK. Whether you like it or not the one state solution is the only way forward for Israel. Luckily the settler community who have pursued illegal expansionist policies are helping the Palestinians achieve their goal. As for visiting Israel, like many other Brits I can think of nothing more odious that having to visit Israel. A state built on subjugation is not where I would choose to spend my hard earned money. For a start, Israel is completely dependent on the US and cannot even support itself as a country.
JJ - When I need life tip from someone who is terminally confused, I will fling you a bun.
You stick to learning history from the Daily Mail, TV and Holywood films.
A-ozu billahi mena shaitaan Arrajeem
أعوذ بالله من الشيطان الرجيم
''Halt deine grosse juedische Schnause du Scheissket! Enough of a WW2 wartime feel for you?''
Sehr Gut. Zum Befahl Herr GruppenFuhrer!.. Deine Deutsch sehr Schon und auch Deine Fransosich Ich glaube... Your hands UP!
Whats really sad is that the Left has lost its moral compass, long ago on this issue. Its not suprising as this Israel/ Palestine problem has dragged on and on without being resolved. The Palestinians deserve a homeland and the Isrealis deserve to live in peace with their neighbours.
Unfortunately, the amount of anti semitism that is funneled indicates the level of malaise this issue has generated and is symptomatic of the degeneration of society in general over the last 30 years. For example Arminus' KZ Deutsch shows a lack of awareness of modern Germany, a failure to even have a cursory knowledge of post war Germany and modern German peoples feelings. In fact he might well earn himself a gaol sentence, if not the hatred of many Germans.
On the other hand Julia,s long list of Jewish notables is not calculated to win her many friends. I would not wish to be associated with Henry Kissinger, Alan Greenspan,or Milton Friedman. Another writer also added people such as Rosa Luxembourg and The Rosenburgs, who were much more to my line of thinking and were given more favourable coverage in their day in the New Statesman, when it actually was socialist and secularist and had not lost its way to such an extent that it gives free range to anti semites and religious obscurantists. My own view on this matter is that the NS and other Left publications/ groups have been infiltrated by the far right who has managed to turn Palestine/Israel issue to their advantage. Arminus' WeltSchmerz WW2 'wartime' feel German is an example of a Nazi who thinks he can't be spotted... but is too easy a give away, Marion's rantings are too adolescent to be taken seriously, and Julias list of Jewish notables is just depressing
@Sally "My my, the pro Israeli lobby is out in force again."
What lobby are you from?
Pure sophistry from Hassan. We all know perfectly well what the odious racist Tonge means. I find it sickening that vile anti-Semitism is tolerated in this country - even promoted by hypocrites on the left who would go mad if just one tenth of that racism was directed at another group.
@ Chris, well said and well put, Hassan trying to pull the wool over us and make light of it, but then he is an Islamic supremacist.
Trying to look at Olmert is just a deflection away, like no one is accountable for what they say.
No matter what Jenny Tongue said, she would be condemned. The truth is that simply expressing support for the Palestinians is considered a crime by the Zionist/Jewish lobby in the UK.
Presumably Clegg's desire to see Israel exist in 'it's present form' includes the overtly racist bits?
Not sure Noam Chomsky can be included in that list. As far as I'm aware, the closest he's come to saying a single, bi-national state could exist is after a long period of co-existance based on the two-state, 67 borders model. The latter remains the only game in town for now as far as he, Norman Finkelstein and me, for what little its worth, are concerned. But anyway, that's a practical point on which pro-Palestinians can continue to debate.
Trouble is, Mehdi, "that video" is not going to go away is it? Wouldn't it be better if you gave this kind of topic a wide berth while you are editing a supposedly reputable publication?
The vitriol directed towards Mehdi because he has dared to support the Palestinians tells us all we need to know about the Zionist lobby. The Zionist lobby is running scared because their monopoly on the media is waning.
Mehdi, you're being dishonest, and you know it. Olmert was talking about the dangers the occupation represent to the preservation of the Jewish majority in Israel.
Baroness Tongue's remarks, instead, had all the content of a threat. She also said "Israel will lose [US] support and then they will reap what they have sown", which is a code for military defeat and destruction.
Putting the two remarks together is an Orwellian distortion of the truth, and you are well aware of it.
People like Tongue are detrimental to the Palestinian cause. So is Mehdi Hasan, the man who oppose the Palestinian bid for state last year... from the comfort of his London armchair.
I repeat again: what contriubtion has Israel or Israelis made to world peace. ZILCH!!!!!! Sooner or later the US will tire of Israel. That cannot come soon enough for me. All this rhetorica about attacking Iran is sheer poppycock. Israel is running scared of Iran!!!!!
Quite agree with Frederick James - you're the last person who should be commenting on this story given your track record.
Who on earth would value or take seriously what Nick Clegg says on anything. Like much of the British establishment, he is running scared of the Zionist lobby in the UK
Tonge's "in its present form" does little to soften her prediction that Israel - and presumably ordinary Israelis will "reap what they have sown".
It is surely impossible to believe that she could mean other than extreme violeince towards them of some sort or that she makes this prediction with clear lip licking relish.
@ KaiserFranzJoseph, I didn’t put the list together and in a non perfect world never assume that all those people are without fault - according to some.
I would correct your point that “the NS and other Left publications/ groups have been infiltrated by the far right"
This is totally and utterly wrong of course. It’s not the right at all, it’s the Hard/Uber Left that has taken up the Palestine/Israel issue and those people who align themselves in this way are equally if not more Fascistic and intolerant as Far right groups.
To explain, the wicked and insidious thing about them is they don't see themselves in that light, but happily revel in the support of terror groups who they see as’ freedom fighters’ – even if these groups murder children and babies in cold blood e.g. the Fogel Murder. They also apologise and make excuses for the subsequent murder and persecution of Israeli's, UK and US civilians and military targets who according to them transgressed the indigenous local population i.e Muslims who have no other option but to resort of terror and violence. They project that Muslims are not accountable for their actions and that it is the fault of the West for all their ills as we have messed up their lives and that previously they led a utopian existence under Islam. This is all nonsense of course and just muddles the narrative and try’s to project guilt, self hating and self loathing onto the easily led and the undecided.
What is then mind blowing and totally hypocritical is how these Hard left people, many who write for the NS, consider themselves to be aligned with human rights and freedom, in yet most of them support the spread of Islam, Sharia law/courts throughout the world and in free democratic societies because they feel everyone should have the right to practice their religion without prejudice.
But by supporting and promoting Islamic values they are also advocating the ban on Freedom of choice and conscious, the freedom to worship anyone else but Allah and leave Islam to worship another religion, basic women’s, human rights and the rights of gays and other minority groups to live without fear of death and freely within those societies. Many Muslims come to UK to escape the injustices of Sharia, only to find those same courts setup here by these moronic left wing groups who see it as Multi Cultural and diverse, truly wicked, stupid and evil.
People like Mehdi Hassan have axes to grind from both a hard left view and an Islamic Supremacist stance. Maybe that why he’s blocked me on Twitter and refuses to be drawn into discussions about things he finds challenging or uncomfortable. He never adds anything to these threads or try’s to engage with the Islamaphobic bigots like me that populate it. Consequently his posts seem to have a thread running through them, defend the Shia Islamic countries such as Iran and Iraq but vilify the Sunni ones, Bahrain, Saudi, I wonder why?
Marion has since packed her bags and gone home. I know that my ideals and values are better and superior to hers so am happy to trade insults and points until the cows come home, she will never concede to anything I said, as being honest is not what they are about.
"The vitriol directed towards Mehdi because he has dared to support the Palestinians tells us all we need to know about the Zionist lobby."
No, the vitriol directed at Mehdi stems from his dishonesty at treating this issue, and his permanent excuse for the inexcusable. Support the one-state solution all you like, but don't distort what people are saying.
"The Zionist lobby is running scared because their monopoly on the media is waning."
Ah, yes, they control the media... where have I heard that before? Pathetic.
KaiserFranzJoseph - Ach, du kannst Deutsch oder soll ich schreiben, Deutsch nach einem Art. I am well acqainted with modern Germany since I have lived and worked there in the past. I also know what is legal in Germany when it comes to the Nazi regime and that it does not extend to the former regime of the murderous Bolsheviks. You should also know of their hypocracy since what they say in public is so very different to what many say in private.
Frankly as a "Nazi spotter" you are rather inept and lacking in a sense of irony. "Nazi" and "Fascist" much like "Anti Semite" are simply meaningless now having been so overused as smears. I sense you are some sort of leftist hand wringer too far up yourself to say or do anything objective hankering after a former time which really never existed in the first place.
It is far too easy to poke "fun" (for want of a better word) at Israel since "they" were once the persecuted and have now become the persecuters.
Coleridge - Its not my fault that the Moil's knife slipped when he was docking your dick but if venting your spleen on me stops you beating up your wife then so be it.
Remember to lock yourself in your room so the islamist bogey men can't get you.
Marion = Jenny Tonge, must be....
Come off it Mehdi. Tonge was taking part in a vicious hate-fest against Israel and as the videos show she treated the audience to an appalling torrent of bigoted and aggressive vitriol.
She went far beyond fair criticism of Israel and strayed into racist and offensive territory.
Shame on you for defending a vile bigot.
Actually Juan it is you rather than Meehdi that is wrong. The US will continue to support Israel as it has with other sates in the region. When US interests are no longer served. Israel will be dumped as was Iraq, Egypt, and Libya. Convenient for now as Israel might be, continued support no matter what is not a given. Americans are tiring of overseas wars and Israel is part of that fatigue.
I've just had a look at MPACUK on Facebook and found a remarkable similarity between the the vile opinions expressed there and the anti-Israel rants by jackass/Arminius/Marion. MPAC also encourage their islamists to pollute the comments sites at the Guardian and NS. It's pretty clear that this Islamist pollution is highly organised and well-financed.
MPAC should be proscribed just like Press TV was removed from Sky. It's Islamist settler activists should be given the choice of internment at Belmarsh or a one way ticket back to apartheid Pakistan.
No doubt, Jenny Tonge will be applauded by the Far Right and assorted extremists, it is a pity that the New Statesman helps provide them with arguments. Yuck.
Quibbling about her racist statements is not what the NS should be doing.
Arguing that illegal Jewish settlements make the two state solution unviable is hardly rocket science. You and your zionist friends cannot tolerate the fact that Palestinians do have support in the West.
I fail to understand the mindset of those who cannot tolerate any kind of ciriticism of Israel. long live Mehdi and Jenny T. Long may they continue!!!!
There is no point in engaging in sensible rational debate with the Zionist brigade on this comments page. The best we can hope for is to put forward knowledge and information to counteract the Zionist narrative. We have to kepp getting our side of the story out. In defeence of the Daily Mail even that paper is now arguing that the current situation in Israel is unsustainable.
Israel and the apartheid South African state amount to the same thing!!!!!
If Israel is such a brillieant place to live, why do 60% of the population have dual nationality and why are 40% looking to emigrate to the US?
Mightymark. Not sure if you read jabotinskys iron wall. No people were ever colonised except by force and it was through extreme force he argued that Israel would subjugate the indegenous people.
No matter what you say, Israel has been bill whereby from its very conception.
I'm just surprised you think otherwise. Early zionist foresaw violence, prepared for it and executed their vision of dismantling Palestine.
So yes, Israel has reaped violence. You can't expect sweet mangoes from a cactus plant.
Sorry to be so glib
The right, far and far-out, are right behind Israel until they feel they might be involved in an Armageddon triggered by a Mid-East conflict. Or less seriously, a halt in oil supplies resulting in a shortage of gas for America's car junkies.
It's not just the never-ending existence of Israel we have to worry about. If Israel oversteps the mark or is attacked with serious intent it's the end of Israel but it is also the end of the world.
"I see that the Islamist MPAC stormtroopers Jackass/Arminius/Marion are all out in force I wonder is there a full moon?"
and i wonder why you insist on being a Full Moron. i note that you aren't able to respond to anything i actually write, you just hurl insult and makes shit up. coward.
I think settlers and settlements are a serious impediment to peaceful co-existence and are illegal. Settlers must be removed. The 1930's, 1940's and 1950's saw a massive influx of Moslem Arab settlers into Israel. These colonisers must be removed and encouraged to return home. Ditto the 2 1/2 million Islamist Pakistani settlers in the uk.
''Halt deine grosse juedische Schnause du Scheissket! Enough of a WW2 wartime feel for you?''
@ Arminus Ich werde nicht zu sprechen Deutsche die ganze Tag there is no need thanks to Winston Churchill and bomber Harris. You're comment about 'murderous bolsheviks' is interesting; the 'Bolsheviks' killed far more than the Nazis when taking into account that regimes that call themselves 'bolshevist' started in 1917 and are still in existance today, China and N. Korea and are responsible for the deaths of millions. However the Nazis window of mass murder opportunity was probably only 5 years and the figures speak for themselves; conservative estimates 11 million deaths in the camps, 21 million and soviet people civilian and military. Your use of Faux SS Barrack Room Prussian to equate Zionism is meant as irony you say, but as I pointed out it isn't funny because its been done over and over again and the joke is stale. The question lingers over yr antisemitism as it is an attempt to conflate zionism and Nazism but its effect is to cause pain to camp survivors and their relatives. I am reminded of the Palestinian prayer we hear rumours of 'May Allah reward Hitler for taking revenge on the Jews in advance' Utter stupidity and living proof that the Palestinian people have been betrayed by their religion, their leaders, and their education system: If Adolf 'The man on the stair' Hitler and the Holocaust had not occured, then the state of Israel would not have come into place.This Germany chat is all v interesting and I reccomend a book called 'Don't mention the war The British and the Germans since 1890'
by John Ramseden. I'm half way through it so can't comment on the conclusion but I'm guessing as it was written in 2006 that anyone who questions Germany as a benevelont country is dismissed as a Eurosceptic or a jingoist crank hankering back to WW2.However bearing in mind the atrocious treatment being meted out to Greece by Merkyl and her puppet 'Petain'Sarkozy with the Eurozone crisis one could be forgiven for saying, as Rudyard Kipling said in the 1930s 'The Hun is at his old tricks again'
As for wringing my hands I simply won't take sides between Islamists, Zionists and Christian Zionists all equally of a barbaric mindset hell bent on fighting a medieval religious war ... with nuclear weapons.
The Zionist brigands never take a day off because they cannot abide any criticsm of Israel. Punishing a defenceless population on a whim may work in the West Bank. But in the wider blogosphere, Israel cannot get away with it
@Frederick James "Wouldn't it be better if you gave this kind of topic a wide berth while you are editing a supposedly reputable publication?" -
Thanks Fredrick that made me smile, i was looking at the history of the New Statesman just the other day, it seems they have a long history dating right back to the 80s of antisemitism.
No different than the Daily Mail but at the other end of the political spectrum.
@Julia Harris, "Go live in the middle east if you support Jew and Israel hating, you'll be in good company. Just dont come to Israel".
Israel is in the Middle East. Until and unless you can reconcile that fact Israel will always be at war.
It doesn't take a genius to work out that there is something terribly wrong with your understanding of the world, especially the Muslim world.
I'm just glad you spurt your ignorance, and yes even with your incessant coping and pasting of "facts" is really a mark of your ignorance.
Isolated "facts" is not knowledge and understanding.
go and do some reading outside the fountain of propaganda from which you've been drinking to cover your hatred and ignorance with a veneer of knowledge.
Education: that which reveals to the wise and conceals from the stupid, the vast limits of their knowledge" Mark Twain.
Get a proper education on Islam and Muslims
You do not ahve to be a leftie to support Palestinians. Just fair minded, open and tolerant. That is all!!!!
I wholeheartedly support and endourse the comments made by Agoodword. The point about Israel being in the Middle East is absolutely spot on. Why set a up a state in the Middle East and then embark on a systematic denial of everything that is Muslim or Arab. Resorting to plagiarism is no substitute for real knowledge and informed debate. You can tell when the Zionists are losing the argument. They resort to personal insults.!!!!!
All this ranting against Muslims is horribly racist. If the Zionists had their way, UK Muslims would not be allowed to speak out in favour od Palestinians. The Zionist lobby cannot abide the fact that theie monopoly on debate of Israel is waning.
@ Marion, I am not racist, but think you are. I merely react to Islamofacist comments made against Jews, simple. I wish all the Muslims in the world (including Mehdi) peace and prosperity, so long as they acknowledge the right for Jew’s and other minorities to live their lives in, freedom, peace and prosperity and don’t impose Islamic laws and controls onto me.
I am happy for people to criticise Israel in context, it’s not perfect as any other country isn’t. The problem is when the ‘Tonge’s’ who are obsessed by Israel spread sheer lies, mistruths and make veiled threats about its existence. Not only that, but it is always Israel that comes in for criticism. This highlighted in the UN, where the great human rights leaders of world, Qaddafi, Assad, Ahmadinejad, Saddam Hussain, etc etc have led the Corus for years in bashing Israel, what a joke. All this has meant that millions of people around the globe who are suffering, starving and being killed have gone unnoticed because of the obsession with Israel, a travesty to them. What a joke you are Marion getting sucked into this narrative by these type of people.
Israel is in a unique position in the Middle East, in that it is the only non-Muslim country. Israel is the minority and the Arabs who have started the Palestinian narrative to gain support are the majority and no different from the Arabs of Jordon, Lebanon and Syria.
The funny thing is, if Palestine where under Arab control I wonder what kind of regime Khaled Meshaal would be running? Would we find under this Arab spring another dictator killing his own dear Palestinian people ? ( as they currently do anyway). Israel cherishes its own as most western countries do, but the Arab nations seem to be able to turn guns on family and friends with relative ease and its like talking about the weather, no one seems to care, no Jews involved?
There will never be a single state, so get over it. You don’t know what you’re talking about anyway, Israel’s economy is doing amazing, great technology, science and other innovations. If you want to compare like for like, if the Arab lands weren’t located by chance were dinosaurs lived millions of years ago, the Arab nations would be even more 3rd world than they are now.
I’m pleased you don’t want to come to Israel, its an amazing country, with Amazing people, if the Palestinians wanted peace and acted peacefully then everyone would benefit – but they don’t.
@ Agoodword, whats you point? that Muslims have taken control of the entire region and other Minority groups and religions who have lived there for millennia don't have the same rights to self govern and determination??
Fuk off, educate yourself.
Tonge is a very brave woman. What we have here is proof positive of the all pervasive power of the Jewish lobby which nobody dares to challenge.
I think Jenny Tonge is a wonderful example of a principled politician. I admire and salute her. The truth is that Israel was created on the backs of an expelled population. You cannot get away from that indisputable fact. I would argue that is is Netanyahu who posed the great danger to worldpeace. If Israel is such a brilliant country, who come it depends on US aid to survive. Moreover why are so many Israelis so desparate to leave the country and why do so many Israelis have dual nationality. The Israeli state has from day one prevented the Palestinians from having a state that could call their own.
Mehdi Hasan is a contributing writer for the New Statesman and the co-author of Ed: The Milibands and the Making of a Labour Leader. He was the New Statesman's senior editor (politics) from 2009-12.