Rick Santorum's baby - a follow-up

Tue, 2012-01-10 20:43 — Buckskins (not verified)

Jackass.
Christian religions normally don't endorse or indeed advocate the murder of women and innocents in general. We Americans were not attacked by 18 Hindus. We know who our enemy is, and we have read their teachings. At least Christians preach love and forgiveness, not the Islamic :kill those who reject our way of thinking: Muslims.

They have tweaked the tail of the Lion and have had their face ripped off, and with more to come. Much more.

Sat, 2012-01-14 00:58 — Awake!

@jankaas
Freedom of speech should be curtailed by common sense. There is no point in having freedom to say silly things or lies. I wasn't trying to be evasive, common sense is just that, it is the sense that normal people I.e. not megalomaniacs on power trips have . It is in a way the will of the real 'will of the peopke' since true freedom does not mean to say or do as one pleases , no real freedom comes from operating within boundaries derived in common sense, thus the limits to individual action is self imposed. Morally speaking it derives from the old chestnut 'do unto others as u would have done on yourself'. Clearly that breaks down when nutters do mad things to others and justify the mad action under some mental banner of 'free speech '
Re Julia, perhaps she is anti Islam , I don't k know or care, the point was simply that deriving that she said all Muslims are bad was incorrect., since as you yourself highlight she underlines that SOME islamists are extre but SOME do good.
To be clear on freedom, one is only really free when one accepts self imposed society derived bounds, then one can do anything they please . Julia makes the point that Hasan should have exercised discretion as a so called senior hack. You agree with this saying he should apologise as it is human to err. He gets it wrong too often though because he is blinded by political tribalism. One of the great shames of our age is that there is no dims creation left, lawyers have argued that away.

Sat, 2012-01-14 01:00 — Awake!

There is no discretion left I meant to say

Thu, 2012-01-19 18:14 — jankaas (not verified)

^

sorry SucksButts, you fucked up another comeback since it relies on you guessing yet again; "evidently" is where you screwed up.

i know simple logic catches you out every time, you do have so much stuff twirling around in your head...lol

Wed, 2012-01-18 18:37 — andyg (not verified)

@ Buckskins.
Why?
@ Julia(n) Harris
Bravo my good man. I really doubted that you had a sense of humour my dear but yes, you brought tears to my eyes.

Fri, 2012-01-13 00:39 — Julia Harris (not verified)

@ Jackass – why is that infantile and meaningless? Its only infantile to a meaningless and infantile person like you. On the contrary, I made the point to highlight how in relation to Mehdi’s publishing of the baby death - that if I were to do a 10 point on Medhi Hassan that its easy to flesh out a point beyond the pale. i.e Mehdi has defended Sharia on the NS...and those atrocities are carried out under Sharia. I’m not saying he supports those particular acts but this is where as a responsible journalist should kerb and edit the amount of information and detail. Most things are over your head Jackass, I’m beginning to feel sorry for you...

Jackass, you are the person who has said Muslim = Bad. I said “turning to Islam is like turning to Heroin” So I am saying Islam = Bad, You must slow down, take a deep breath, maybe ask a neighbour or friend to help you read and/or write if it’s too challenging? Maybe you’re entitled to some sort of benefit?

@ Rob Anderson + Buckskins– Thanks for taking the time to make my comments clear to him. Unfortunately, I’m not sure Jackass will ever see the Wood from the Tree’s.

Mon, 2012-01-09 22:36 — Sir Michael (not verified)

Hasan - "Explaining something is the worst thing I could do??"

No, trying to make excuses for being a thoughtless fool with a bit of dishonest and lazy "journalism" is the worst thing you could do. It would be bad enough if this were just some made up story, but the fact is you took a personal tragedy - the death of a child no less - and used it to smear your political enemies.

During Obamas campaign pictures of him wearing Muslim garb starting to circulate. His Islamic father, and middle name of "Hussein" started to get talked about all over the right wing media. "We aren't saying he is a terrorist... we are just pointing out that Obama sounds like Osama".

I'll bet you found that behaviour pretty vile and cheap, and thought the journalists engaged in that kind of activity were abusing their responsibility to the public discourse. Well that is exactly what you have done.

"I think this comment above exemplifies why so few journalists these days take commenters below the line seriously."

Everyone else is wrong, I am absolutely right.

"Explaining something has become a crime, something to be belittled by unthinking, anonymous commenters."

Ohh for pity sake stop the hyperbole and sulking tantrum. Nobody is saying that you committed a crime. You have the absolute right to talk about how Santorum dealt with the death of his child and use that to try to smear and belittle him.

By the same token, people have the absolute right to talk about how much of a dick you are for doing that.

Thu, 2012-01-12 09:03 — Bee (not verified)

'' if we all did what we wanted and chose systems that suited us society would break down''

Stop being so dramatic. I'm not advocating for the breakdown of our society. You really need to calm down, this isn't a matter of destroying British society, it's about adults exercising personal choice to settle disputes. Jewish courts have been operating for centuries in this country, without breaking the foundations of British society. I'm sure British society will not collapse due to 85 Sharia courts.

Fri, 2012-01-13 00:41 — Des Demona (not verified)

@ Jankaas
For a change I clicked on the link. Funny!
Okay so let's get back to the article. When Mehdi is being political he generally makes sense to most NS readers. When his religious bent comes in to play and distracts the political editor of the NS from what he should be doing it pisses them off ( possibly just me)
When his political posts piss off NS readers(again possibly just me) as in his article here which is an arrogant and ill conceived attempted defence of a huge mistake then that just exacerbates the doubts as to his credability. And at this time especially the left needs champions not chumps.
The left can have divisions without being devisive.

Mon, 2012-01-09 22:37 — MatthewBlott

@ Julia Harris

The link you posted does not have him defending Sharia - he's arguing there is scaremongering about a threat that is exagerated. He's far too relaxed about Islamism for my tastes but - and it's strange I'm finding myself in the odd position of defending Mehdi Hasan - defend him I will in this case from the charge which is false. You make a good point that mentioning something can create an air of suspicion but that's all you are doing with Mehdi Hasan. He says he's not an Islamist and, contrary to any solid evidence being put forward that contradicts this, I'm prepared to believe him.

Mon, 2012-01-16 14:50 — jankaas (not verified)

@Awake!

"Yes good humans do bad things irrespective of being believers or not."

exactly. hold on to that thought.

"I think Julia's point is that the atrocities are commited IN THE NAME of a faith"

and there lies her rookie error (until a few years ago i did the exact same thing). she blames Islam for the atrocities yet lists data of Muslim on Muslim atrocity without a hint of realisation that it sinks her argument;

"2012.01.14 (Basra, Iraq) - A Holy Warrior detonates himself in a crowd of Shia pilgrims, massacring over fifty.

2012.01.13 (Baghdad, Iraq) - Sunnis detonate a car bomb near a bus stop full of Shia pilgrims, killing at least one."

these figures prove that it can't just be Islam, it can't just be the Koran, it can't just be religion. so you must return to that thought i asked you to hold, at the top of this post.

"I wonder how you would feel if the atrocities were on your doorstep Daily?"

don't know about daily. but i do work in London regularly, and could have easily been caught up in the 7/7 bombings. doesn't make me hate Islam or Muslims though. that would be lazy and intellectually corrupt.

Tue, 2012-01-17 15:00 — Julia Harris (not verified)

Nothing to do with Islam? Need to find a more complex answer?

'I was doing my duty as a Muslim,' says father who handed out leaflets saying gay people should be hanged
Kabir Ahmed, 28, tells court he couldn't 'just stand by and watch somebody commit a sin'
Five men face first prosecution for inciting hatred on the grounds of sexual orientation since law came into force
Leaflet called Death Penalty? said: 'The death sentence is the only way this immoral crime can be erased from corrupting society'

Thu, 2012-01-12 10:10 — Des Demona (not verified)

@Bee

I have a good deal of sympathy for your argument but I think you may be going about it the wrong way by your comparison with Jewish Beth Din courts. You have to recognise that the obvious comeback to that is that it wasn't Jews who blew up the tube trains. I'm afraid the actions of a tiny minority do create suspicion of the majority. That is why they do it.
Personally I have no problem with Muslims using Sharia courts providing it it does not contravene UK Law. But on the basis that we hear so little about Beth Din perhaps it would be better to do the same with Sharia? Controversey can either be courted or avoided.

Tue, 2012-01-17 15:03 — Julia Harris (not verified)

Nothing to do with Islam? Need to find a more complex answer? Its not me who defines them as an Islamist Movement...

'Hezbollah, a Lebanon-based Shia Islamist movement'

Thai police find large cache of bomb-making materials

Thai police have detained a suspect with alleged links to Hezbollah.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-16571576

Tue, 2012-01-17 15:07 — Julia Harris (not verified)

Nothing to do with Islam? Need to find a more complex answer?

Egyptian Child Preacher Muhammad Osama Recounts Antisemitic Hadith: Jews Hide Behind the Gharqad Tree When Muslims Come to Kill Them on Judgment Day

http://www.memritv.org/clip/en/3271.htm

Mon, 2012-01-09 22:47 — jankaas (not verified)

@Andy

"...the baby thing is weird though"

as a parent, i don't.
and my wife and i are are not religious, yet i 'get' most of what they were doing with their child. their child, who lived for 2 hours (makes me a bit choked up even typing this). i think their religion was perhaps useful to them for processing their grief?

so as a parent, i thought this event 'out of bounds'. there's nothing to see, nothing to learn, none of our business even.

Thu, 2012-01-19 18:36 — andyg (not verified)

@ Buckskins.

Why?

Thu, 2012-01-12 10:28 — rob andersen (not verified)

Rafael Behr's articles are so much more interesting than Hasan's.
@NS. Can someone there just gop back on the last 6 months of both these guys articlkes and evluate objectively. Hasan is childlike/paranoid almost in his pieces, for they can hardly be called analyses. His arguments are typically false or full of sophistry, emotionally charged to detract from the falsehood. Behr is in a different league.
And the left wonders why it's in a seemingly terminal decline

Tue, 2012-01-17 15:09 — Julia Harris (not verified)

Nothing to do with Islam? Need to find a more complex answer?

MOGADISHU (Reuters) - Somali Islamist militants have killed the head of a food distribution charity in central Somalia, a pro-government militia said on Friday, the latest blow to the relief effort in the famine-hit country.

Residents said al Shabaab wanted only Islamic agencies to provide aid in the areas it controls..

Thu, 2012-01-12 10:34 — jankaas (not verified)

@Des

" You have to recognise that the obvious comeback to that is that it wasn't Jews who blew up the tube trains."

sorry, but that is a ridiculous argument. not that people wouldn't make such a ridiculous argument, i realise that people do exactly that, but i refuse to be forced to take nonsense into serious debate.

"Controversey can either be courted or avoided."

and i would bet the farm on the truism that the overwhelming majority of Muslims simply want to live their lives in peace. they have absolutely no control over the actions of Muslim terrorists. how could they?

and i'm sure you would agree that there is no UK Law that forbids groups of people getting together to resolve their issues in the manner they wish. as long as no law is broken, it is none of our business imho.

Tue, 2012-01-17 15:11 — Julia Harris (not verified)

Nothing to do with Islam? Need to find a more complex answer?

Pakistan: Christian girls and women, some already married, abducted and forcibly converted to Islam

“I saw two of my daughters being raped in front of me,” an old lady from Essa Nagri told The News. “It is considered that Chooras have no integrity.” She says that around midnight, men from other areas start gathering in their neighbourhood. “They are usually drunk. They choose which home they will plunder.”

She adds that one night they stormed into her home and raped two of her girls, while she “was locked in another room hearing their cries for help”. “I am a widow without any financial prospects, but I did go to the MPA representing us. What good is he if he can’t do anything to protect us?” The fear to report these cases is such that at first, no one even admits that an incident of rape or torture has taken place.

Forcible conversions

Within the past three months, nine women have been abducted and forcibly converted to Islam. MPA Javed adds that the purpose is not to gain good deeds, but to sell them. A majority of the Christian girls converted are married, he says.

Mon, 2012-01-09 22:54 — Mustafa (not verified)

Im still trying to work out how Mehdi discussing an issue in which the wife actually devoted a book about which as far as I am aware, is 'public knowledge', is somehow distasteful when Mehdi mentions it in his article! Stop trying to portray Mehdi as someone he's not and for the love of God, stop spreading hate!

Have an opinion, disagree with him, but to be offensive, that's very mature.

@Julia Harris, if I was planning to learn about Islam, I wouldn't come to you as you have obviously misunderstood the religion completely. Its funny how you act like you know the religion inside out and yet if I were to ask you if you have actually read the Holy book, I know what your answer would be and so do you. Instead of making accusations on what Mehdi believes based on no evidence whatsoever, why don't you actually ask him what his views are instead of writing islamaphobic nonsence! Very big of you.

Tue, 2012-01-10 21:46 — LD Lawrence (not verified)

"(Btw, can you imagine a headline which read "Indulgence of black people is harming society"?)"

No, but I can imagine a headline saying "Indulgence of Scientology is harming society" without much outrage. Islam is not a ethnicity.

Thu, 2012-01-12 10:51 — Awake!

@ Julia Harris- keep the posts coming even if half the readers are so chippy or defensive they can't read you objectively. Breath of fresh air on this site

Mon, 2012-01-09 22:56 — jankaas (not verified)

@Julia Harris

"he's tries to defend it and water it down - which is tantamount to helping it spread."

you wot?

so it's not the spreading of 'extremist Islam' you are viciously against, but 'diluted Islam' (whatever that is)...? perhaps you meant 'moderate'? do tell.

is that correct? oh hang on, you do clear this up straight away;
"The fact he's a devote Muslim too - lets not go there.."

why not just say 'all Muslims' from the start?

Thu, 2012-01-12 10:59 — Des Demona (not verified)

@Jankaas

It is not my argument. Just pointing out that sometimes common sense is required rather than courting controversy. I'm probably also a little disappointed that yet another NS thread has been hijacked by the pro-mulim/anti-muslim brigade and quite frankly just wish both sides would shut the hell up.

Tue, 2012-01-17 15:29 — Buckskins (not verified)

You couldn't pay for this sort of entertainment. An individual woman kicking ass on a bunch of lefties that are of course pro Muslim IE anti Israel. Sweet Julia you're brilliant.

Shalom.

Mon, 2012-01-09 23:01 — jankaas (not verified)

"By the same token, people have the absolute right to talk about how much of a dick you are for doing that."

lol

am with you, the event has no place on a proper list.

Tue, 2012-01-10 22:17 — andyg (not verified)

@ Mustafa
"Yes andyg, I agree that people have a responsibility when it comes to freedom of thought"
A. Good, then think before you try to offend by tarring everybody with the same brush.
"however your missing the point."
A. I really don't think that I have, did, or am missing the point. Just remind me Mustafa, are you referring to the point of social ethics, morals or both?
"Mehdi didn’t express an opinion."
A. Oh I see, because others had reported the death of a child,(a living, named, breathing human being with an identity who had nothing to do with the World of politics and was what as human beings we define as innocent)then it was ok to use that childs death to have a punch at the father of that child? And because others had used it before him it makes everything ok?
"he merely stated a fact."
A. And just remind me Mustafa, the fact was what exactly? Take your time and in your own words.
"what’s the harm in that?"
A. Your ignorance is quite something. How low do you and others wish to stoop in order to win brownie points? This isn't political commentry, it's what some may call the gutter.
"It’s not his fault."
A. Then who's fault is it? I didn't write it did you? No you've just agreed with it in a round about way which shows you in the same light. If you were liberal minded you would be asking I wonder what comes next? In order for wrongdoing to be maintained Mustafa, it becomes sufficient only for some people to say nothing which is why I've had to say something.Medhi has made a fundamental mistake, he should apologise and then move on.To err is to be human, without fault....devine
"that you decided to interpret it in a distasteful manner."
A. Oh I see it's my interpretation of the death of a child now is it? Oh dear well I must be punished, heaven on Earth it simply hadn't downed on me. I suppose it was all about 19th century colonialism was it and there were only 140 characters left, oh trust me to play that silly game. It was my fault all the time even though just about every other commentator agreed.
"I’ll debate you anytime!"
A. I doubt it Mustafa or you would have relished the maggot I left you above but you simply avoided it. My guess is that you don't even know what point 8 said, or maybe you would like to tell the readers of this blog.
I await your next shot sire. (With relish)grrrr

Tue, 2012-01-17 15:40 — Sir Michael (not verified)

Julia, you linked a single article of note there - the BBC article about the arrest of a man linked with Hezbollah. However, the article doesn't allocate blame to Islam for that, you added that yourself.

The other articles are hate speeches from the Daily Mail and whoever else is embarrassed by the idea of Muslims walking around on British soil.

Your entire substance part of your argument basically is "I am a racist!". Ok, you win that point, I totally believe you. But that doesn't make me feel any worse about Muslims to be honest.