Mehdi Hasan

Mehdi Hasan’s polemical take on politics, economics and foreign affairs

Ten years on from the invasion of Afghanistan

. . . here are ten things you should know.

By Mehdi Hasan Published 07 October 2011 11:56

Today is the tenth anniversary of the invasion of Afghanistan by the United States and its allies -- including the UK -- in the aftermath of the horrific attacks of 9/11.

It is a time to reflect and deliberate. Here are ten important things about the conflict that are worth considering on this particular anniversary:

1) The British government has spent more than £18bn on the war in Afghanistan. Last year alone, the Treasury allocated £4bn for the fight against the Taliban.

2) There have been 382 UK military fatalities in Afghanistan since the start of operations in October 2001 -- 35 of them this year. The UK military death toll in Afghanistan long ago exceeded the number of military casualties in the Falklands war (255) and the invasion of Iraq (179).

3) The average age of British casualties in Afghanistan is 22; 28 of those 382 dead soldiers were teenagers.

4) According to figures collated by the United Nations, the number of civilians killed in conflict in Afghanistan rose by 15 per cent in the first six months of this year to 1,462 non-combatants. Insurgents were held responsible for 80 per cent of the killings, with pro-government forces (including western forces) held responsible for 14 per cent of all civilian deaths.

5) The invasion of Afghanistan has not made the UK safer -- the London bombings occurred four years after the commencement of military operations against the Taliban. On 7 July 2005, British troops were serving in Afghanistan when the four suicide bombers struck the capital's transport network. In fact, 7/7 bomber Shehaz Tanweer explicitly referred to British forces fighting in Afghanistan in his suicide video. As one of the UK's leading security experts, John Mackinlay of King's College, told me almost two years ago: "Afghanistan is the recruiting sergeant for what is happening in the UK."

6) The US and UK governments say that we are fighting against al-Qaeda in Afghanistan -- yet, as long ago as October 2009, Obama's (then) national security adviser, General James Jones, told CNN that "the al-Qaeda presence [in Afghanistan] is very diminished. The maximum estimate is less than 100 operating in the country. No bases. No ability to launch attacks on either us or our allies."

7) The Taliban is a brutal, reactionary and despotic movement but it isn't a terrorist group, international or otherwise; nor does it pose a direct or imminent threat to British national security. None of the 19 hijackers on 9/11 were Afghans or members of the Taliban. Of the dozen or so major terror plots that UK security agencies have successfully prevented since 11 September 2001, none have been linked to Afghanistan. Of the 100 or so Islamists imprisoned in Britain on terrorism offences, not a single one hails from Helmand.

8) Our chief ally in Afghanistan, Hamid Karzai, has been described by senior US officials in internal diplomatic cables as "not an adequate strategic partner" who "continues to shun responsibility for any sovereign burden", is "paranoid", "weak" and has "an inability to grasp the most rudimentary principles of state-building". Peter Galbraith, who served as a UN envoy to Afghanistan until 2009, has since publicly questioned the "mental stability" of Karzai and even suggested that the Afghan president may be using drugs. In April 2010, Karzai threatened to quit politics and join the Taliban if the west put any further pressure on him to reform his government. I have referred to him elsewhere as Afghanistan's Ngo Dinh Diem.

9) Britons oppose the war in Afghanistan by a 2:1 margin. The majority, 60 per cent, of the public opposes the war in Afghanistan, while only a minority, 31 per cent, supports it. It is the same across the pond: the overwhelming majority of Americans, 73 per cent, are in favour of withdrawing troops from Afghanistan.

10) For the past decade, western governments have repeatedly claimed that the war in Afghanistan was justified by the Taliban's refusal to hand over Osama Bin Laden for trial. This is a lie. As the Daily Telegraph reported on 4 October 2001, three days before the bombing began:

A secret plan to put Osama Bin Laden on trial in Pakistan has been blocked after President Musharraf said he could not guarantee his safety, it was disclosed yesterday.

Suggested by the Taliban's closest allies in Pakistan, it was a last-ditch attempt to satisfy Western demands for Bin Laden's surrender while averting a war and ensuring the fanatical regime's survival.

A high-level delegation led by Qazi Hussain Ahmad, head of Pakistan's most important Islamic party, the Jamaat-i-Islami, met Mullah Omar, the Taliban leader, in secret on Monday. Omar agreed that Bin Laden should be taken to Pakistan, where he would be held under house arrest in Peshawar.

The proposal, which had Bin Laden's approval, was that within the framework of Islamic shar'ia law evidence of his alleged involvement in the New York and Washington attacks would be placed before an international tribunal.

The court would decide whether to try him on the spot or hand him over to America.

Ten long and bloody years later, Bin Laden is dead; al-Qaeda is scattered; Pakistan is on the verge of implosion; the US government is in talks with the Taliban -- and yet still we continue to send British troops to fight and die in the killing fields of Afghanistan. It is one of the great tragedies, and scandals, of our times.

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Tags: Military 9/11 Osama Bin Laden Afghanistan

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70 comments

Sat, 2011-10-15 14:02 — Omar from Pakistan (not verified)

100 times more Muslims have been killed in Iraq,Afghanistan, Libya and Pakistan by Christians when some zealot Muslim groups attached christian countries (including 9/11 which is more fake and Al-Qaida which is US made too). USA n NATO proclaimed it is not war against Muslims but covertly it is.Well lets see where history goes. Power does not remain in same hands.

Tue, 2011-10-11 23:37 — Sue-me (not verified)

Julia Harris, I'm a pacifist by nature but if I ever met you I would smack you round the head with the laptop you use to "google" your information, fool.

Fri, 2011-10-07 22:39 — Buckskins (not verified)

"Mark Allan
07 October 2011 at 16:12

And Buckskin,you say that if you are attacked you attack the attacker. So why when every single 9/11 bomber was Saudi Arabian did they attack Afghanistan?"

We were not attacked by Saudi Arabia. We were attacked by Al-Qaeda that is a multi-national force. Of course the majority of the of the killers were Saudi. I'm sure Bin Laden gave that a lot of thought so that misinformed, and quite frankly, ignorant individuals like yourself could repeat the gibberish that your so called media loves to spoon feed you. Saudis are very much a minority in Al-Qaeda.

Fri, 2011-10-14 16:01 — Sir Michael (not verified)

@Ian - "Appease all you want, but name for me one Muslin state that does not oppress women... "

Rubbish.

http://www.cracked.com/article_18911_5-ridiculous-things-you-probably-be...

Even humor sites are better informed than you are.

Fri, 2011-10-07 22:41 — Tayyeb (not verified)

Just reading the comments makes one realise that the war is not against terrorism but against Islam driven by the hate some people have for Islam and Muslims.

Thu, 2011-10-13 12:51 — moretheylie (not verified)

"Bin Laden was a cia agent!"

Did Osama bin Laden see the future 10 years ago : the $$, Pentagon war machine, 'arab' awakening / Palestine, corrupt politicians.

Did Osama bin Laden win the war of ideas ?

Wed, 2011-10-12 10:36 — Arthur O'Connor

Why is Britain in Afghanistan ? - because of a democratic system which takes Britains vote and gives voters no voice in what the country does. And maybe Britains (not well versed in anything other than footy and X Faxctor) are ignorant of the fact the British Empire, the USSR (and now the US alias Nato) have been and are being repulsed by the Afghans. Those billions which should be propping up the UK internal market are going into the hands of the armaments industry. Hence to-day's Fox and Werrity Homo Erotic Armaments Scandal. Mehdi Hassan's got it right. Britains at large have a big problem - they must reconstruct their political system.

Sun, 2011-10-16 22:31 — Julia Harris (not verified)

About 1.8 million of Indonesia's 246 million people have potential links to terrorism, according to the country's anti-terror chief.
"The number is this. More or less 1.8 million people take part in terrorist networks," said Ansyaad Mbai., who heads Indonesia's National Anti-Terrorism Agency, or BNPT, speaking during a panel discussion in Jakarta on Tuesday.

Indonesia, world's most populous Muslim country, is combating Al-Qaeda linked terrorists whose most notorious attack was in Bali in 2002 when 200 people died in an attack by the Jemaah Islamiyah terror group. The country is also fighting a separatist movement in the Aceh region of northern Sumatra....

Fri, 2011-10-07 23:17 — moretheylie (not verified)

"Yes I know of the Northern Alliance, does their existence justify the barbaric regime that held sway under the Taliban? "

but the NA are more vicious than the taliban. one does not excuse the other but we cannot support the more vicious just because they suit our political needs can we?

"You seriously want me to believe that non Muslim south Asian males would sentence a woman to be gang raped, what planet are you on....and if true it excuses this vile practice. What group has this as an accepted punishment please name one, please show me evidence of its occurrence in Hindu, Sikh, Buddhist, Jane et al controlled areas."

im afraid it happens, its not a religious thing its the nature of the culture and ultra conservatism in parts of that society.

just check out indian news.

"The father of a Birmingham man killed in a hit-and-run during the riots in August has been charged with assault in connection with an alleged road rage inciden"

and so what he had a bad day .. or are you claiming road rage is because of his islamic faith??

Fri, 2011-10-07 23:22 — moretheylie (not verified)

"Just reading the comments makes one realise that the war is not against terrorism but against Islam driven by the hate some people have for Islam and Muslims."

its always been a neo conservative war against islam. it was never about freedom/democracy but was always about asset stripping of nations.

"We were not attacked by Saudi Arabia. We were attacked by Al-Qaeda that is a multi-national force. Of course the majority of the of the killers were Saudi. I'm sure Bin Laden gave that a lot of thought so that misinformed, and quite frankly, ignorant individuals like yourself could repeat the gibberish that your so called media loves to spoon feed you. Saudis are very much a minority in Al-Qaeda."

the so called al qaeda was never more than 2000 people.

but if we are able to commit war against afghanistan based on al qaeda then surely most of the world could commit war against the US or UK becos of the cia / mi6 and their links to terrorism.

Fri, 2011-10-07 23:42 — Buckskins (not verified)

Moretheylie and Mark.

I refuse to debate at your childish levels. Feel free to continue making asses of yourselves.

Sat, 2011-10-08 00:15 — moretheylie (not verified)

"I refuse to debate at your childish levels. Feel free to continue making asses of yourselves."

so does the cia / mi6 have links to terrorism and terrorists or not?

Sat, 2011-10-15 19:23 — Moretheylie (not verified)

Salaam brother Omar, the tide is turning and the infidel will pay for their sins against the Ummah

Fri, 2011-10-07 13:02 — Julia Harris (not verified)

"Insurgents were held responsible for 80 per cent of the killings"

Say it all, where is your outrage at this???? Where is your diatribe about the Islamically inspired Taliban and article into how Islam as a religion drives Muslims to kill in its name? Why do you not call for a reform version of Islam without Jihad?? Why do you not hold your own brethren accountable for these killings in the same way you hold the British government?

I'll tell you why, because there is no reform Islam, Islam is Islam with all the violent shit, hatred and persecution, no change, no compromise, just Submit....

Sat, 2011-10-08 00:34 — Kez (not verified)

Must be losing when the right wing are rabid

Fri, 2011-10-07 13:23 — Carl Packman1

Al-Awlaki's dead though - under every mushroom cloud and all that...

Sun, 2011-10-09 22:33 — Jobles

Some very interesting points have been raised in these comments but the discussions have drifted from the atricle-under-comment, so lets get back to it.... Point 9) states "Britons oppose the war in Afghanistan by a 2-to-1 margin. The majority, 60 per cent, of the public opposes the war in Afghanistan, while only a minority, 31 per cent, supports it. It is the same across the pond: the overwhelming majority of Americans, 73 per cent, are in favour of withdrawing troops from Afghanistan."
See how democracy tramples its own principals. To me it just shows that democracy has to be fine tuned by laws that empowers the masses and keeps them empowered perpetually rather than for just one day (election day) in 4-5 years

Tue, 2011-10-11 11:45 — Julia Harris (not verified)

God's perfect religion marches on in Egypt, where Christian
minorities were pummeled, stabbed, shot and even run over
merely for peacefully protesting church burnings on Sunday.

2011.10.10 (Dangam, Afghanistan) - A road construction crew is the target of a vicious double bombing that leaves six dead.
2011.10.10 (Baghdad, Iraq) - Jihadi bombers murder ten Iraqis in a string of bombings, including first responders.
2011.10.10 (Maiduguri, Nigeria) - Two Nigerians are killed by a Boko Haram bomb.
2011.10.08 (Kirkuk, Iraq) - Muslim gunmen shoot an elderly Christian and a woman.
2011.10.07 (Rawalpindi, Pakistan) - About two dozen students and teachers at a girls school are thrashed with iron rods by fundamentalists for dressing "immodestly."
2011.10.07 (Itafiyah, Iraq) - Mujahideen set off a bomb along a crowded street, killing five Iraqis.

Sat, 2011-10-08 05:15 — Mark Allan (not verified)

Buckskin. Is your lack of a cohesive argument the reason you turn to insults and name calling? Dear dear by pointing out my ignorance and stupidity you really reveal your own.

Thu, 2012-02-16 17:46 — Federico

Why is Britain in Afghanistan ? - because of a democratic system which takes Britain vote and gives voters no voice in what the country does. And maybe Britain (not well versed in anything other than footy and X Faxctor) are ignorant of the fact the British Empire, the USSR (and now the US alias NATO) have been and are being repulsed by the Afghans. http://www.besthomeimprovementideas.org/

Mon, 2011-10-10 01:28 — Julia Harris (not verified)

Since 1948, almost 10 million Muslims have died at the hands of fellow Muslims.....Where is the outrage over that?

Fri, 2011-10-07 15:40 — Mark Allan (not verified)

Julia Harris. I am not a moslem but I know for certain that Islam does not preach the things you say it does. The acts that those terrorists commited should never be condoned but neither should the bigotry and broad brush statements from the likes of yourself be either. I'm sick of the growing Islamaphobia in this world that paints every muslim a terrorist and makes them the pariahs of the world. Shame on those racist bigots.

Fri, 2011-10-07 16:02 — Tom (not verified)

Get out of Afghanistan.

Fri, 2011-10-07 16:46 — Luddite (not verified)

Mark Allan: doesn't it? Mark using words such as bigotry and Islamophobia dilutes your rant. Julia Harris, is quite right about the 'real' not imagined threat from vile Islam. But that threat is not do be found in the mountains and valleys of Afghanistan, but here in our own green and pleasant land....

Fri, 2011-10-07 16:03 — Tom (not verified)

It's an illegal and immoral war.

Fri, 2011-10-07 16:29 — Buckskins (not verified)

That's right Tom. A legal war would be made so by whom? The UN ? When you are attacked you don't turn the other cheek. You eliminate the threat, and those that gave them comfort, aid, and shelter. Tell me about a moral war please. Was it the RAF doing little more than bombing German women and kids in the dead of night as your bomber command's contribution to WW2. This is an ongoing war that will go on for years to come. If you don't have the stomach for it then stay home. Lead, follow, or get the fuk out the way.

Fri, 2011-10-07 16:31 — Ian5

Mark: Was not Afghanistan under the Taliban recognised as an Islamic state?

Appease all you want, but name for me one Muslin state that does not oppress women...

are all the vile stories we hear pure fantasy? I think not. Lashed for driving a car..fact. sentenced to be gang raped for what exactly? lashed to death at 14 for spurious adultery charges.....and mass murder of a sect you do not belong too.... Face reality those shouting loudest as Muslims are evil. If Islam does not preach these things, how can they be spread in the mosques?

Mon, 2011-10-10 13:58 — moretheylie (not verified)

"moretheylie, I'm really sorry I cant produce a list for you as no other religion is killing people of other faiths or there own for that matter - then defining themselves as religiously inspired killers and taking directions from there holy books and preachers."

actually there are but since youre not about objectivity the facts dont interest you.

anyway in the case of gwbush he called it a crusade and that god spoke through him, tblair said he asked god and when we went into iraq we took in 100 000 bibles and some 10 000 evangelists .. the US army was handing out bibles in afghanistan.

dont you know anything?

Mon, 2011-10-10 14:08 — moretheylie (not verified)

"Oh here's another stat for you, Islamic Terrorists have carried out more than 17,834 deadly terror attaches since 9/11"

and they account for less than 3% of all terrorism in the world .. so clearly non muslims are more deadly and dangerous.

europol reports that from 2007 to 2010 so called islamist terrorism accounted for 1% of all european terrorism.

in the US cnn/rand/duke university research found that 94% of terrorism in the US was non muslim...in fact as an aside jewish terrorism in the US accounted for 7% of all acts.

however it is also a fact that terrorism levels have not changed from pre 2001 figures. so in truth nothing has changed in terms of the terrorist threat except you are being made to believe and fear one part of humanity. much in the same way the nazis directed their hatred towards jewish and other communities.

on average 50 americans die a year as a result of any terrorist acts. the uk has suffered 53 + those due to dissident ira terrorism deaths over 10 years.

in the uk 30 000 people have died as a result of motor accidents and 30 000 have died as a result of household accidents over 10 years.

maybe you need to lie down.

Fri, 2011-10-07 16:40 — Ian5

Oh and Medhi, are you totally mad , the Taliban not terrorists,,,,,,,,when nearly the entire population lived in terror....they were terrorists, they ruled by fear. The BBC has a nice little video montage Ten years on... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-15206249. try this.

Mon, 2011-10-10 14:17 — moretheylie (not verified)

"Since 1948, almost 10 million Muslims have died at the hands of fellow Muslims.....Where is the outrage over that?"

its why nations dont want the US or UK or any other malevolent forces to be in their nations since the outcome is always negative for those populations whose political, tribal affiliations are exploited.

the US in vietnam killed an estimated 4 million (and the after effects of chemical weapons still present today) in the dr congo some 3 millions have died, in rwanda 1 million killed .. not many muslims involved in those conflicts...and of course that long running war in sri lanka (tamils) hindus vs buddhists.

the fact is - you see wars where muslims are involved as religious, whereas they view them as a matter of nationalism, defending their culture and freedom against the western colonial powers.

the problem is with your perceptions.

Mon, 2011-10-10 14:21 — moretheylie (not verified)

"See how democracy tramples its own principals. To me it just shows that democracy has to be fine tuned by laws that empowers the masses and keeps them empowered perpetually rather than for just one day (election day) in 4-5 years"

clearly what we have learnt in recent weeks is that jp morgan (banks) rule the world and their media outlets mindwash the people to their agenda. there is no room for democracy.

in fact how does democracy end up with 40 US (or if you prefer 14000 UK) citizens owning $$ as much as the rest of the population ?

Fri, 2011-10-07 16:48 — Olijaan

Ian: to take one of your points, the appalling gang rape of Mukhtar Mai in Pakistan was a punishment meted out by a village court on the basis of tribal traditions and was (obviously) completely unislamic. You might like to recall that in fact it was the local imam who proposed that she bring her attackers to trial, and supported her in so doing. Let's not so hastily conflate religion and culture.

Sat, 2011-10-08 16:29 — Julia Harris (not verified)

This weeks Islamaphobia

2011.10.06 (Narathiwat, Thailand) - Islamic gunmen fire on a Buddhist couple sitting in their truck, killing the wife.
2011.10.06 (Gereshk, Afghanistan) - Taliban snipers pick off a child riding a bus. Sixteen other civilians survive with injuries.
2011.10.05 (Narathiwat, Thailand) - A Buddhist woman is shot to death in her own house by Muslim militants.
2011.10.05 (Mian Channu, Pakistan) - A Christian trying to build a church orphanage is murdered by Muslims in a "land dispute."
2011.10.04 (Tanjol, Nigeria) - Muslim militants gun down two Christian villagers.
2011.10.04 (Mogadishu, Somalia) - Over one-hundred people are blown to bits in a powerful truck bombing by Islamic fundamentalists. Many victims were students.

Mon, 2011-10-17 14:32 — jankaas (not verified)

@Moretheylie
"Islam will dominate the world and all you evil white people willl leave Muslim lands"

do you have any idea how long this will take, i mean i was going to do a nice shoulder pork next sunday roast and i don't wish to offend my new masters? actually, are you a stooge for Evangelican Christians? it really is very hard to tell from your rants....

Fri, 2011-10-07 16:58 — 1R4M

oh here we go again, on pretty much EVERY article, even if its about bin collections, SOMEONE has to mention the "wicked islamis faith"
ffs
just deal with the article at hand
criticise it constructively if u dont agree with what hes written, why go personal and just rant about random things

Mon, 2011-10-17 14:39 — jankaas (not verified)

@Moretheylie
"the tide is turning and the infidel will pay for their sins against the Ummah"

what a lovely Catholic notion; to pay for one's sins.

in 1990 i did shag a girl in the back of a car outside a mosque in Dubai (it was about 2 in the morning i hasten to add). so what do i owe the Big Fella for that one?

Sat, 2011-10-08 16:31 — Julia Harris (not verified)

Girls are still sold as child brides in Afghanistan, despite laws banning the practice.

Ten years after British forces entered the war-ravaged country, the Standard has uncovered shocking evidence of an eight-year-old girl who was married off to a policeman for cash. She was sold to the officer, in his twenties, in clear breach of laws introduced two years ago to protect women.

She was then the subject of a remarkable battle that symbolises the plight of girls in Afghanistan. Her story vividly highlights the failure to bring about social reforms in the stricken nation, despite the long presence of

Fri, 2011-10-07 17:05 — Mark Allan (not verified)

Ian,one Muslim state that doesn't oppress women? Turkey,2nd country in the world to give women the vote. And luddite,why does my using those words dilute my opinion,not rant,if thats what it is. Pure bigotry and Islamaphobia. There a many muslims where I live I feel not the least bit threatened. You use the word vile to classify a whole religion. Would you use it to describe Christianity on account of paedophillic priests? No,thought not!

Sat, 2011-10-08 17:11 — moretheylie (not verified)

"This weeks Islamaphobia"

ironically its not the articles but your posting of them that exemplifies islamophobia.

now to be objective can you produce a list of all the latest news regarding other faiths / no faith .. or are you blind to those abuses?

"Girls are still sold as child brides in Afghanistan, despite laws banning the practice."

regardless of religion this happens across the world.

"Ten years after British forces entered the war-ravaged country, the Standard has uncovered shocking evidence of an eight-year-old girl who was married off to a policeman for cash. She was sold to the officer, in his twenties, in clear breach of laws introduced two years ago to protect women."

did you know that 97% of convicted paedophiles in uk prisons are white non muslims ?

operation Ore anyone ?

Thu, 2011-11-03 13:22 — uzair sacranie (not verified)

the war in Afghanistan is a failure the western forces are being defeated they never seem to learn from the russians' the british(in 19th century) and all other nations that have invaded Afghanistan that YOU CAN NEVER CONQUER AFGHANISTAN YOU WILL HORRIBLY FAIL AND BE HUMILIATED SO WITHDRAW NOW!!! AND PEACE WILL PREVAIL!!!

Fri, 2011-10-07 17:11 — Olijaan

Anyone who believes that our military involvement in Afghanistan (and Iraq) hasn’t increased our risk of terrorist attack is simply burying their head in the sand; a cursory glance at the self-proclaimed motivations of terrorists and jihadi sympathisers will suffice to show what a huge source of resentment these military misadventures are.

I think part of the problem is that here in Europe we are living in a rather sanitised media bubble in which we can almost fool ourselves that our troops in Afghanistan spend their time benignly patting local children on the head and doling out sweets. The casualty figures tell a different story, though; we need to stop and actually imagine the carnage caused in human terms. While our media gloss over these stories the fact remains that graphic images of the corpses of dismembered toddlers, children with faces contorted with pain with raw bleeding stumps where their legs used to be and innumerable bodies of those described as collateral damage in yet another misplaced attack (how many wedding celebrations have ended in slaughter?) circulate freely.

It doesn’t take a huge leap of imagination to imagine the strong reaction such images may provoke in certain people. While I imagine some of us over here may simply be inadequately informed, blithe denials of the suffering of the Afghan people as a result of our invasion can come across as arrogance and hypocrisy, which sadly only compounds the problem.

Tue, 2011-10-11 16:14 — moretheylie (not verified)

"God's perfect religion marches on"

of course if one wants to pretend that this didnt and doesnt still happen:

Christian ‘Doctrine’ Fueled Dehumanization: UNPFII Report
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article25378.htm

Pentagon declined to investigate hundreds of purchases of child pornography
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/upshot/pentagon-declined-investigate-hundred...

Abu Ghraib abuse photos 'show rape'
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/5395830/Abu-G...

US soldiers 'killed Afghan civilians for sport and collected fingers as trophies'
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/sep/09/us-soldiers-afghan-civilians...

‘Fun to Shoot People’ General Named as New CENTCOM Commander
http://news.antiwar.com/2010/07/08/fun-to-shoot-people-general-named-as-...

Blackwater used 'child prostitutes in Iraq'
http://edition.presstv.ir/detail/102887.html

U.S. Military Investigator Confirms Women and Children Were Raped At Abu Ghraib
http://www.infowars.com/us-military-investigator-confirms-women-and-chil...

UK/USA made use of Uzbek torture
http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=33&I...

The Ugly American: CIA Station Chief in Algeria Accused of Rapes
http://www.infowars.com/the-ugly-american-cia-station-chief-in-algeria-a...

Iraqi females suffer in US custody
http://edition.presstv.ir/detail/74110.html

U.S. Soldiers Accused Of Raping Iraqi Women Escape Prosecution
http://www.democracynow.org/2005/3/29/u_s_soldiers_accused_of_raping

'US torturing females in Afghan prisons'
http://edition.presstv.ir/detail/74114.html

2 American Officials Apologize for Crime
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/07/world/middleeast/07iraq.html?ex=130992...

Troops 'took turns' to rape Iraqi
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/5253160.stm

US troops 'raped and burned' Iraqi girl, court hears
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/iraq/article602731.ece

U.S. Officials Admitted that Boys Were Sodomized In Iraq Prison
http://www.infowars.com/us-officials-admitted-that-boys-were-sodomized-i...

British soldiers accused of raping Iraqi man
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/sep/14/iraq-rape-british-soldiers-accused

This May Be Britain's Abu Ghraib
http://www.commondreams.org/view/2010/07/03-3

Fri, 2011-10-07 17:12 — Mark Allan (not verified)

And Buckskin,you say that if you are attacked you attack the attacker. So why when every single 9/11 bomber was Saudi Arabian did they attack Afghanistan? Thats akin to us bombing Switzerland in the 2nd world war because in one of the cantons they speak German!

Tue, 2011-10-11 16:15 — moretheylie (not verified)

Jobles

thanks for your post.

Fri, 2011-10-07 17:18 — Mark Allan (not verified)

Back to the article. When the final WW1 veteran,Harry Patch was asked about war he used one phrase "what a waste". And that sums war up. Why cant we ever learn?

Wed, 2011-10-12 20:30 — Jobles

"- they must reconstruct their political system." taking this point further... democracy has evolved in the last century into a veritable arm of the corporate conglomerates. "in fact how does democracy end up with 40 US (or if you prefer 14000 UK) citizens owning $$ as much as the rest of the population ? " So DEMOCRATIC system in vogue has to be reviewed, and needs to be revamped.
...we need people like moretheylie and Arthur O'Connor

Fri, 2011-10-07 17:22 — moretheylie (not verified)

pakistan has an estimated 10 000 military dead and over 34 000 citizens killed , it has spent $70billion and had US aid of $20billion.

now we are building up to attack pakistan ..

its a war of neo conservatives and corporatism vs islam . it has never been a war of freedom or democracy as Liam Fox stated .. we arent in afghanistan for the women or so that schoolgirls can be educated .. its because of British National Interest.

Fri, 2011-10-07 17:25 — The Luddite (not verified)

Mark... I'm no catholic.. 'Turkey' please Byzantium, 500 years of occupation will never change that fact.. bigotry and Islam go hand in glove, or are you so poisoned by political-correctness and the Islamic-fascist appeasement lobby..

Fri, 2011-10-07 17:26 — Ian5

Olijaan, I fully appreciate your point, but are you saying those sitting in judgement on the local village court were non muslims? If Islam requires the state of mind some here state that it does, how can they have passed this sentence. Personally I believe most Muslims want out of life exactly what I as an atheist want and what the average professed Jew, Christian Sikh etc want. come on this culture of which you speak is so tied into the religion that one does not exist without the other.

Mark ; sorry no cigar, Turkey has a majority Muslim population true, but a secular constitution, its higher education system leaves a bit to be desired. look and the troubles the simple wearing of head scarves has caused it. Next Muslin state please.