Mehdi Hasan

Mehdi Hasan’s polemical take on politics, economics and foreign affairs

Question Time, Israel and 9/11

An astonishing claim -- even by his standards -- from Richard Perle.

By Mehdi Hasan Published 09 September 2011 19:05

Last night's Question Time special on the aftermath of 9/11 featured the "Prince of Darkness", Richard Perle, ex-chairman of George W Bush's defence policy board and US neocon-in-chief.

Most of his remarks had me groaning but one, in particular, caught my attention. Israel, Perle claimed, wasn't in violation of international law. He said:

Find me the Security Council resolution that Israel has violated.

His astonishing, ahistorical claim was met by silence from host David Dimbleby, as well as his fellow panellists -- including the anti-war lefties Tariq Ali and Bonnie Greer.

Perle repeated the line a few seconds later:

Israel is not in violation of UN Security Council resolutions. It just isn't.

Er, yes it is -- and it was left to an audience member to mention UN Resolution 242, while the former foreign secretary David Miliband just mumbled something about settlements being "illegal under international law".

However, apologists for Israel's occupation often argue that the meaning of 242 is contested; that there is a dispute over the meaning and extent of "territories occupied".

Yet, according to Professor Stephen Zunes, even excluding 242, the state of Israel violated 32 security council resolutions between 1968 and 2002 -- a record for any UN member!

To take just one live example, how about UN Resolution 452, passed in 1979? It states

. . . the policy of Israel in establishing settlements in the occupied Arab territories has no legal validity and constitutes a violation of the fourth Geneva Convention relative to the protection of civilian persons in time of war of 12 August 1949

and

. . . calls upon the government and people of Israel to cease, on an urgent basis, the establishment, construction and planning of settlements in the Arab territories occupied since 1967, including Jerusalem.

Guess what? It still stands. And Perle knows it still stands. And he knows that Israel is still building settlements in defiance of it.

As for the link between Israeli crimes against the Palestinians and the al-Qaeda attacks on the twin towers, here's Robert Fisk's take:

But I'm drawn to Anthony Summers and Robbyn Swan whose The Eleventh Day confronts what the west refused to face in the years that followed 9/11. "All the evidence . . . indicates that Palestine was the factor that united the conspirators -- at every level," they write. One of the organisers of the attack believed it would make Americans concentrate on "the atrocities that America is committing by supporting Israel". Palestine, the authors state, "was certainly the principal political grievance . . . driving the young Arabs (who had lived) in Hamburg".

The motivation for the attacks was "ducked" even by the official 9/11 report, say the authors. The commissioners had disagreed on this "issue" -- cliché code word for "problem" -- and its two most senior officials, Thomas Kean and Lee Hamilton, were later to explain: "This was sensitive ground . . . Commissioners who argued that al-Qaeda was motivated by a religious ideology -- and not by opposition to American policies -- rejected mentioning the Israeli-Palestinian conflict . . . In their view, listing US support for Israel as a root cause of al-Qaeda's opposition to the United States indicated that the United States should reassess that policy." And there you have it.

So what happened? The commissioners, Summers and Swan state, "settled on vague language that circumvented the issue of motive". There's a hint in the official report -- but only in a footnote which, of course, few read. In other words, we still haven't told the truth about the crime which -- we are supposed to believe -- "changed the world for ever". Mind you, after watching Obama on his knees before Netanyahu last May, I'm really not surprised.

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Tags: 9/11 Question Time BBC Israel

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217 comments

Mon, 2011-09-12 16:46 — Daniele1

Thanks Drakula and AJ.
With your comments and your first hand experiences with Israel, you are redressing the debate and bringing some sanity and some real points to the debate.
Denial or ignorance of their own history could be the roots of the fanaticism displayed on this page.
AJ's experiences in Israel seem to fit what was portrayed in that Tv drama "the promise" which enraged so many zionists (despite the fact it was written by a Jew) but which, I suspect, was very close to the reality in Israel and to its history.(hence the rage).

Fri, 2011-09-09 22:39 — Herbert (not verified)

Islamists racist bigots are so relentless in their racist attacks upon Israel and the Jews.Yet when one of their prominent jihadists Mehdi Hasan is exposed as a fascist Islamist supremacist the islamists get ever so sensitive! Jake - 'finally let it go' - not on your nelly. Therapist bigot Mehdi Hasan has never explained or justified his racist remarks. You are a LIAR. Let the islamofascist explain himself in the NS in black and white. Let the Islamist NS so keen to slander Jews explain why this racist bigot hasn't been booted out.

Sun, 2011-09-11 15:23 — Coleridge (not verified)

@Fraziel1
Provides a clear explanation as to what is wrong here. Israel's leaders are 'modern day nazis' this oaf tells us. Are there gas chambers in Israel for Arabs? Have the Jews not had the opportunity to murder millions of Arabs if they wanted to? Do Israeli Arabs not in fact have the right to vote? Are there Arab MPs in Israeli Knesset? If this is a nazi state how comes there are Arab judges, journalists, Moslems serving in government and a deputy speaker? Total lying Islamist anti-Semitic crap designed to cause Jews maximum offense.
One then sees Turkey (population 80 million) threatening to send warships to Israel (pop 7 million). Islamist Iran (population 70 million) threatening to wipe Israel of the face of the earth. Egypt (pop. 70 million) standing by whilst an Islamist mob ransacks the Israeli embassy. And Israel is the aggressor?
More people are beginning to see through these Islamist lies and appreciate that Hamas, Iran, turkey, Islam and the Koran have much more in common with naziism, than the actual victims of the nazis do.

Mon, 2011-09-12 17:04 — Coleridge (not verified)

And AJ did you by any chance come across any of the relatives of the 23 school girls blown to pieces by the Islamofascist Hamas suicide bomber outside tel aviv's Dolphinarium discotheque? Did you meet the relatives of the 20 kids butchered by a Hamas suicide bomber inside Jerusalem's Szabbaro pizzeria? Did you meet the relatives of kids butchered in a Haifa restaurant
When an Islamic jihad suicide bomber blew herself after positioning herself in a children's area of the restaurant? Did you meet with the remainder of the Fogel family who's 3 kids including baby had there throats slit by two Hamas savages? Or did you meet any of the relatives of the 1000 civilians including 400 children butchered by Moslem fanatics when Hamas and Islamic Jihad waged their suicide bombing campaign against Israeli civilians traveling on buses?
If you'v really visited israel over 30 times than perhaps you can explain how the fuck you'v missed all this? Unless of course you are just another islamoNazi like Daniele.

Fri, 2011-09-09 22:41 — Herbert (not verified)

Oh and by the way - the 'prophet' Mohamed lived JUST LIKE AN ANIMAL. Nothing wrong with that - good?

Sun, 2011-09-11 10:01 — Olijaan

"Heidi"?? I've heard Mehdi called many things but...

And unless you have been teleported here directly from the nineteenth century, please use the correct term "Muslims".

As for taqiya (which is what I assume you're referring to), as I've mentioned previously this allows Muslims to dissimulate their faith if their lives are directly endangered as a result of religious persecution. To misrepresent this as some kind of catch-all tactic simply won't wash.

Wed, 2011-09-21 14:28 — Parkour Pete (not verified)

@maxinemf "pernicious, ugly and vicious"

If that's your opinion about Israel you must be REALLY scathing about Arab states.

C'mon, let's hear it.

Wed, 2011-09-14 21:57 — The Luddite (not verified)

PeteyMcPeterson. You vile Islamo-fascist apologists crack me up.

Fri, 2011-09-09 22:59 — Joe King (not verified)

Why does anyone feel the need to get so upity about anyone criticising Israel? I'd like to see evidence of anyone in the NS criticising Jews. Israel yes. Jews? No.

When the shoe is finally on the other foot the usual suspects get up in arms yet when they peddle the usual factless nonsense its ok.

Mon, 2011-09-12 17:18 — Julia Harris (not verified)

Richard A - thank you for your words of support and you are right in your summation.

There are some extremely dangerous people like Daniele who gets there facts from drama series like the promise and then it becomes her point of view and reference. There is so much mis-information by the left and Muslim nations that willing dupes like Daniele lap it up.

Mon, 2011-09-12 17:14 — Julia Harris (not verified)

AJ – you’ve never been too Israel and your stories are made up. You never met the mother of of a boy shot in the had??? Idiot you are. So what if anyway there was a soldier guarding him??? What aload of bullshit...you don’t even name him... So what if you argued with Israelis anyway?? They’re not going to just accept your stupid and ignorant point of view.

ROFL...What a joke and Daniele laps it up, the old slapper. Then OMG I cant belive she says its similar to a tv drama the promise... that's because that were AJ got the story from and imagined he was actually there...you both are truly dangerously stupid people.

BTW the promise is a terrible peace of drama that is terribly slanted.

Sun, 2011-09-11 10:54 — Attrition47

The silence that greeted Perle's claim was a most eloquent statement of COMbbc's corruption.

Sun, 2011-09-11 11:03 — Luddite (not verified)

"And unless you have been teleported here directly from the nineteenth century, please use the correct term "Muslims". Sorry that's funny, always thought Muhammadanism was teleported from the 8th century? By the way. I will use any word of my choosing, you political-correct pimp!

Mon, 2011-09-12 17:45 — sean drew (not verified)

daniele hitler had a great opportunity there to tell us how many times she has visited the only democracy in the middle east, but she passed on that opportunity. - i wonder why... how come she knows so much about the place?

aj and daniele - definitely a case of the 'liar' leading the 'willfuly gullible' lmfao

Wed, 2011-09-14 22:29 — Richard Albright1

Coleridge: A Palestinian official did actually call for any future Palestinian state to be without any Jewish residents. Maen Areikat, who served as the Palestinian Liberation Organisation's envoy to the United States, actually said "it would be in the best interest of the two people to be separated" in any future state. No state has officially prohibited Jews since Nazi Germany attempted to become "judenrein" (free of Jews).Israel has a majority of Jewish citizens, but is still home to a number of minorities including Muslims, Christians and Baha'is. So would it be acceptable to expel all none Jews from Israel?

Tue, 2011-09-13 20:28 — Daniel (not verified)

Richard, the left wing bias was, I thought, was reflected in its condoning of Soviet and E European human rights violations, and had very little to do with 'violent Islamist regimes' & N Korea.

Anyway, aren't some people on this blog doing the same thing? They are turning a blind eye to acts of State Terror carried out by Israel. The ethnic cleansing that has been going on since 1948 continues unabated.

http://www.shimontzabar.com/about/shimons-own-words-politics/the-afterma...

Wed, 2011-09-21 14:46 — maxinemf

We are not talking about Arab states; and neither has the debate in this blog got anything to do with Arab states. I am talking specfically about the way that Israel has treated Palestinians. You are a complete imbecile if you do not understand this distinction!!!!

Sun, 2011-09-11 11:17 — betterdeadthanred (not verified)

Another copy and paste effort from Mehdi Hasan. Yawn. How about an NS article paying tribute to the extraordinary courage and restraint of the people of Israel in the face of continuous aggression by genocidal Islamic imperialists.

Mon, 2011-09-12 18:14 — Daniel (not verified)

Now I remember why I never watch Question Time. It's full of the same old bullshit, no new or interesting arguments are put forward, and crazy statements go uncontested. Mehdi has just wasted an hour of his life watching that tripe. He should have been watching Newsnight or listening to the World Tonight on Radio 4 or something - both are much more informative and don't treat you like a fuck-wit

Fri, 2011-09-09 23:14 — Asante (not verified)

The zionists seem to have struck a raw nerve against the islamists. Maybe Mehdi should answer. Or at least apologize for what appears to be an open and shut case of Moslem bigotry?

Mon, 2011-09-12 18:20 — Daniel (not verified)

The best place for news on Israel and the occupation is http://www.israeli-occupation.org/

When you are debating against the occupation you are not only dealing with right wing extremists, but with a prevailing colonialist attitude we have in the West.

Tue, 2011-09-13 20:45 — Daniele1

Unbelievable!
I was wondering if they could come up with some dirt on Amnesty. Sure enough!"Communist infiltration"!! Are these guys serious? Surely not.
Left-wing bias? really? so what if it was true?
Could it be possible that the left is more concerned about human right than the right? In my Amnesty work, I haven't met many right-wing guys I must admit.Too busy making money I suppose.
What a thought!Right-wing human right activists.An oxymoron.
How do right-wing Zionists have the nerve to talk about "bias" is beyond me.

Thu, 2011-09-15 20:22 — Daniel (not verified)

Israel and its blind followers do not care for truth or for humanity. They support the terrorist killings of British people during the forties, the massacre of Palestinians in Deir Yassin, and perpetrate the lie that Egypt fired the first shot in the 1967 war.

Operation Cast Lead began on the busiest time of day for Arabs on the Sabbath to maximise death. The Israeli policy was to 'go beserk' so as to shock the enemy (a lesson learnt in the failed attack on Hizbollah). Exactly two weeks later the Red Cross were denied entry into Gaza by the IDF to give medical treatment to civilians because, you guessed it, it was the Sabbath and they didn't want to escort them! All hail the most 'moral army in the world'!

Sun, 2011-09-11 11:42 — Stiles

"Blimey, the completely deranged comments seem to outnumber the reasonable ones by at least 10 to 1. Do people save up all their frustration and then come here to vent it? "
Yes, it seems that Mehdi has a club of obsessed stalkers. Bit of a backhand compliment I suppose.

Thu, 2011-09-22 18:24 — Luddite (not verified)

What isn't deeply offensive to Mohammedans? So what have you to say about genocide and wholesale butchery and rape in the Sudan? Or is it that war crimes against nonbelievers is acceptable in your twisted world.

Tue, 2011-09-13 21:04 — Daniel (not verified)

To be brutally honest, the human rights violations carried out by Soviet Communists was well documented in the media. Human right violations carried out by right wing regimes and so called democracies was barely reported. The differing coverage of the Cambodia and East Timor genocides is a famous case - one was reported heavily in the media while the other one was barely reported at all. The atrocities carried out by US supported regimes were hardly reported.

Sun, 2011-09-11 11:51 — SR819

Don't you love it how Tariq Ali seems to think all the terrorist attacks carried out by radical Islamic groups is caused by Western foreign policy or Israel? He never once acknowledges that the groups themselves and those that support them should take responsibility for their heinous crimes. Did you once hear Tariq Ali say that 9/11 or 7/7 were tragic events and we should never forget the victims? Of course not, because the value he places on the life of a Muslim is greater than the value he places on the life of a non-Muslim. And Ali's supposed to be a Trotskyist, a believer in the equality of man!

No wonder the left is so weak when you have people like Ali who are supposed to represent you.

And another thing, can Mehdi explain why it's okay for the "left" to espouse anti-semitism and anti-West racism, but when the white, working class complain about the effect of mass immigration on community cohesion, pressure on wages and public services, housing etc, we're branded racists? The anger at immigration has nothing to do with racism or xenophobia, and yet Mehdi sees it fit to tar us all with the EDL brush.

Sun, 2011-09-11 12:13 — Richard Albright (not verified)

Stiles. Do you really think the majority are going to allow the useful idiots such as yourself, and the Jihadist 'Heidi Hasan' to poison this country with religious fascism.

Tue, 2011-09-13 21:08 — Richard Albright1

Daniele, or is it Daniel? It rather bizarre to find the progressive left making common cause with radical Islam. One half of this alliance profess to be pro-gay, pro-feminist secularists; the other half are homophobic, misogynist theocrats. We once had the Hitler-Stalin Pact, is this the modern version, it still makes no sense.

Mon, 2011-09-12 19:24 — Richard Albright (not verified)

Daniele. The goal of Hamas is to kill and terrorize defenseless Israeli men, women, and children as they go about their daily lives. Hamas assiduously tries to upgrade its weapons to raise the number of casualties caused by each attack. Hamas’ larger goal, stated in its founding document, is to murder Jews, "obliterate Israel" and replace it with a medieval Caliphate. Hamas incites hatred and violence, liberally quoting from the anti-Semitic forgery, Protocols of the Elders of Zion. Hamas terrorizes other Palestinians, forcing them to obey its radical interpretation of Islam, using them as human shields and embedding their terrorist infrastructure in Gaza’s civilian neighborhoods. Hamas has tortured local Christians and murdered its political rivals in Fatah along with their children. This is what you and your crazed friends are supporting.

Sun, 2011-09-11 12:35 — Julia Harris (not verified)

Will the Islamaphobia never end??

Swedish police arrest four on suspicion of plotting terrorist attack
Arts centre in Gothenburg evacuated after police received threat, before suspects were held in raid

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/sep/11/swedish-police-arrest-four-t...

Sun, 2011-09-11 12:46 — Coolidge (not verified)

Just saw Mehdi on the BBC this morning. Why does he think it's the Moslems who are the ultimate victims of 9/11? quite bizarre. He did however get pasted by a poll that demonstrated that a tiny minority accept his position.

Tue, 2011-09-13 21:31 — Richard Albright1

The world's so called progressive and left-leaning media such as the New Statesman have created a more friendly world for anti-Western hatreds like Islamism to flourish. It is no coincidence that modern Islamist terrorism started in 1960s a era of left-wing revolution that also gave birth to the IRA, ETA, and other 1970s terrorists. Marxist revolution was in the air then, and we are still living with the consequences of that time. Modern Islamism is utopian, international, anti-Western appealing to violent, idealistic young people. It is the heir of violent revolutionary communism. The Islamism attacking us was born not centuries ago in ancient grievous, but rather in the revolutionary 1960s and 1970s, and is kept alive by the constant anti-Americanism spread by the left-wing media throughout the world, not least in Britain and Europe. It has intellectual origins in the western left and is supported by the western left. See for example the fact that Michael Moore's book encouraged the Bali bombers. The marxist left could be said to be the origin of modern Islamism as much as ancient Islam is. This is why we find this bizarre pairing.

Sun, 2011-09-11 12:47 — Lox (not verified)

I've got an idea. Given the huge amount of wealth controlled by gulf arab states, why doen't they invest it in building up the economy in palestine-scholarships for young palestinian men and women, fund a couple of technical universities and a high quality education system, build top quality housing to attract talented people from elsewhere. Then in a few years you'd have a palestine that would be prosperous and economically vibrant, and inclined to live in peace with israel.
What is there for the gulf states to lose? Apart from a convenient scapegoat to distract their populations from their autocratic and corrupt leaders, that is.

Mon, 2011-09-12 19:49 — Luddite (not verified)

Daniele. Is it the black uniforms and the whips that attracts you to Nazism, or just it's rabid anti-Semitism whoops sorry!! "Zionism"

Thu, 2011-09-22 19:20 — maxinemf

There you have it' you have exposed yourself for the thoroughly nasty and unpleasnat brute that you are. We are having a debate about Israel which falsely claims to be a democracy and yet visits upon the Palestinian people daily repression, hulmilitation and indignity. I know of know other democractic state which operates in this manner. If we are going to talk abotu war crimes, I would say that Israel has committed far more war crimes than any other state against the Palestinians. Palestinians will never give up their rights. There are 10 million of us now!!!!! We will prevail. Just as the berlin Wall collapsed so too will the Jerusalem wall.

Sun, 2011-09-11 13:02 — Richard Albright1

Lox. Precisely why blame yourself when we can blame the Jew.

Tue, 2011-09-13 22:24 — Daniele1

"It makes no sense" because this alliance only exists in Richard Albright's deluded mind. Nobody on the left likes radical Islam. Personally I hate it.I loathe any religious fanaticism of any kind.What makes these people think the left is pro-Islam?? THAT makes no sense.
Just because you happen to criticise Israel's policies doesn't make you a radical Islamist. I can't believe I have to explain that.
Are these guys all totally deranged?or do they pretend to be deranged?

Thu, 2011-09-15 21:12 — Richard Albright1

A Amnesty international report said: "Hezbollah's rocket attacks on northern Israel amounted to deliberate attacks on civilians and civilian objects, as well as indiscriminate attacks, both war crimes under international law." Also under international law. All nations have a right of self-defence.

Sun, 2011-09-11 13:24 — Fraziel1

luddite and coleridge, its funny reading your comments as you have no concept of the fact that you come across as intolerant deranged nutters branding anyone with anything critical to say about Israel as racists. You are as bad as the fascist left.

Julia harris, i would read your posts more if it was not so obvious that you are a rabid bigot and let me assure you that I am no lover of islam or muslims but the gross hypocrisy towards israel is intolerable.

If israel was an arab country behaving the way it does it would have been invaded and its leadership overthrown.Its leaders have turned into everything they claim to despise and treat the arabs in a way that is not too dissimilar to Hitlers treatment of the poles and the slavs.

The leaders of israel are modern day nazis and are fully supported in their illegal UN defying behaviour by the US.

Mon, 2011-09-12 20:24 — Daniele1

Luddite and john woods, you are beyond the pale.
You should be barred from this site for repeated abuse and foul language.

Sat, 2011-09-10 01:07 — Gideon (not verified)

I'm afraid, Mehdi, that this blaming of 9/11 on Israel is an utterly bizarre denial of the fact that the people who committed these crimes (and let's not dispute that they were crimes) were terrorists and a) there was no justification for their action and b) it was hardly the fault of Israel. The "motivation" was to do with a misplaced idealism prayed upon by reasonably cunning zealots.

Mon, 2011-09-12 21:01 — Daniel (not verified)

Looking through some comments here I notice a lot of the usual hypocritical viral blurb and bullying from Zionist right wing hate mob.

Just remember that these Stern Gang worshippers support acts of State Terror against an innocent civilian population.

Their arguments are riddled with contradictions. Truth is not on their side.

If I made the same offensive anti-Islam remarks to Judaism I would be banned and may face persecution. And so I should. You racists should know better.

Wed, 2011-09-21 16:40 — Parkour Pete (not verified)

Indulge my imbecility.

What's your take on Arab States?

Thu, 2011-09-15 21:48 — Luddite (not verified)

The Israeli problem is they are the victim of Arab-Palestinian propaganda which has effectively convinced many on the Left to believe that Arabs are the victims. Because of anti-Israel propaganda Israel is prevented from going after the terrorists as they did against invading Arab nations. Why is this, The Islamic terrorists merge into the general population of their safe havens. If a civilian which in many occasion are a pretending civilians gets hurt or killed in the line of fire Israel is always accused of disproportionate response.

Mon, 2011-09-12 21:14 — Luddite (not verified)

Daniele when did free speech have limitations? john woods comment is disgusting and should be removed i've no argument with that. But i for one will not let your vile anti-semitism go unopposed. It's intolerant individuals such as yourself that makes this world a sad place in live.

Mon, 2011-09-12 21:17 — Parkour Pete (not verified)

I think the penny's dropped.

Daniel is actually pro-Israel and is using these posts to discredit far-left, pro-Hamas would-be-stormfront-members-but-feel-the-left-is-more-their-social-demographic brigade that 'Daniel' typifies. It's actually a rather nice parody and shouldn't be a cause for anger or irritation.

'Daniel' - well done but the risk is that some morons may actually take seriously what you write without getting what you're trying to do!

Sat, 2011-09-10 02:00 — Daniele1

Has anybody noticed that Richard Perle called Saddam Hussein "a masochistic tyrant".If he meant "sadistic", does it mean that the guy is as illiterate as Bush? surely not?
One thing is sure, he came out as a right evil bastard and of course Dimbleby didn't challenge him once.
It looks as if the rabid zionists are out tonight.The truth is that Israel gets away with murder,again and again, has ignored countless UN resolutions and nothing happens to them.Maybe what they need is a regime change but it will have to come from within as no one in the world seems prepared to challenge this tiny nation.Why? hmmm... I wonder.Because their friends the Americans simply won't allow it.But their power and influence could wane sooner than we think. What then?

Mon, 2011-09-12 21:19 — Olijaan

Ok, you've had your fun but these comments have really overstepped the mark.

It's one thing having a relaxed moderation policy - which I for one appreciate - but when this is just taken advantage of to post abuse intended to cause deep offense, then it is simply counterproductive as it closes down debate and the site as a whole suffers as a result.

If the NS has guidelines on the acceptability of comments, then it should make them clear. If not, it should frankly develop some.

Mon, 2011-09-12 21:24 — Luddite (not verified)

Daniel "Zionist right wing hate mob"
Zionist. I'm not even Jewish.. "right wing" Whats right wing about opposing religious fascism, and the useful idiots that support them?