@ Mehdi Hasan

On one hand you say you despise the barbaric brutal and mysoginistic Taliban.
On the other you say we have to talk to them.

And say what exactly? Please stop being brutal barbaric and mysoginistic?

Somehow I don't think that's going to work.

Perhaps you can come up with what these 'talks' should entail?

Defeat,I dont think so.
Withdrawal,yes.
If the US was engaged in all out war with Afghanistan as a country it could bomb it all the way back to the stone age.
The question is is game worth the candle.
Probably not.Civil war seems inevitable.
In fact it would be cheaper in lives and money to engage with which ever bunch of tribes men happens to gain control.
We dont have to be in Afghanistan to beat al-Qa'ida.
Many Afghan tribes will gladly do the job if supported,as they hate al-Qa'ida whom they regard as bunch of interfering Arabs who have brought nothing but trouble and suffering to Afghanistan.

@ Buckskins

Thanks for reminding the world- the American won the war in Vietnam.

You might like to add, America conqueror of Granada.

Mr. Hasan
As a journalist, you once again have failed to address the real issue. Taliban = ISLAM. They derive their inspiration from Islam, they preach it, and they are yet another example of the true face and reality of Islam ( the other being Islamic republic of Iran, and Sudan, with Pakistan is not too far off ). when will Muslim/Middle Eastern journalist finally wake up and start discussing a serious reform of Islam, abandoning all that is brutal and regressive. If there is somethign left afterwards, great. It may inspire greatness for a while. Otherwise, throw away the whole thing and move on. Close mosques, destroy Madressah's, abandon the Mullah, kill the terrorist !.. a wolrld without Islam would be a much better world : No Taliban, no terrorists, no immunity for cutting woman's nose for leaving a dirt-bag, no stoning, no parasitic life for Mullahs/Imams ( who have no useful purpose on life ! ), and no Arab/Israeli conflict either .... get rid of Islam, and you solve all these issues ( or at least, remove the main instigator ).
Now, as a jounalistm, do you dare to address that ?

Utter chaos and outbreaks of civil wars. Its back to the old days of tribal warfare.

ASK 'Then surely Afghan women can gain theirs without Nato too.'
One would hope so,it may be a long time coming mores the pity for the women.
But as you say it should be up to them to reform their society and religion without outside interference unless it is requested.
Just as it our right to protect our country and culture.
If they then proceed attack us or support attacks on us then they will have to bear the consequences.

Alec: Surely you do not mean what you have said about Mehdis writings? You gotta be kidding. He is a fine writer. Do not envy him. Raymond you re sick man. Islam is cool.

With regards to the question about 'What happens if we leave Afghanistan? God knows. But I know one thing: Afghans people will be better off without these killers.

Which killers American UK, the problem is the war is with Pakistan, so why are we not in Pakistan, better still why are we not at home.

If you can call this home anymore.

WHAT HAPPENS WHEN WE LEAVE

If by WE you mean the British, it will make no difference whatsoever. You are only there for window dressing and political cover. For ya’al to run from Afghanistan would be nothing new. Your army had plenty of training for it when they ran from Basra Iraq. Of course the British ubiquitous Dunkirkese comment of victory was quick to the lips. No doubt it will accompany your sprint for the airport in Afghanistan.

@Buckskins.

"WE"would only be following the example you set in Saigon.

Raymond

You give an entirely one-dimensional picture of Islam. You ignore the hundreds of millions of decent muslims, concerned mainly with living a decent life. The form of Islam you are speaking of, is largely (directly and indirectly) a product of the West. Wahabbism, or Salfism, the branch of Islam influencing the Taliban and "Al Qaeda" originated in Saudi Arabia (an ally of the USA). Many of the jihadi groups were created or encouraged early on by the CIA. Others - e.g. the Iranian clerics, Hezbollah, Hammas, sprang up in opposition to despotic US-backed regimes.

It is not many years ago that Pakistan had a female leader and was pretty liberal - it is mainly the war in Afghanistan pushing that country to the brink. Islamic terrorism in Britain, is also something that has only arisen since the start of the "War on Terror." However, the key driver behind the politicisation of Islam is the continuing injustice inflicted on the Palestinians, something in which the US and UK governments are both complicit by their uncritical support of the Israeli state.

Their crime is to undermine and complain about our personal freedoms. Paradoxically, in order to safeguard not only our freedoms, but also culturally liberal minorities from the reactions of the majority, the muslim has to be dealt with swiftly and harshly.

. Secular societies should not accommodate or make compromises with any faith group.

. All immigrants should be forced to assimilate.

. Two year military service should be introduced for all youths.

. No further planning permission should be given to any place of worship.

. We should only import immigrants from secular non moslem democracies.

. The final aim of society should be to amalgamate us into a one free, equal and culturally homogeneous citizens under a single constitution, where religion is a private shame.

I agree with Unite and in fact I would like to add more:

1. All those muslims extremists, jihadists or whatever killing names they call themselves should do the honourable thing - just pack up and go back to where you come from.

You have got the check to do honour killings, why don't you all have the check and honour to go back to your own country, when you know you are not wanted here?

Rob,

You have got it all wrong. The so-called Palestinian issue is just an excuse by Muslims to bomb and murder the Kafir.

The REAL cause is the Quoran and Islam. It is provided in the Quoran, 123 verses of it, to kill all the Jews, Christians and non-Muslims. That is the real cause. Rob, I suggest you read the Quoran, then you would appreciate the real cause of all the jihadists' killings.

Indonesia with 97% Muslims and Malaysia 80% Muslims and yet some of the most violent jihadists are from these two countries against the Christians in their own countries. They beheaded the Christians, burn their Churches, harass non-Muslims everyday. They control the Government, they got 100% of all Government contracts, discrimination law enacted to preserve their unfettered rights- yet they still do what they do to non- Muslims. Is that because of Palestinian issue? Any moron will know its not.

In the Philippines and Thailand, 95% of the people are Christians and Buddists respectively, yet the 1% minority caused the most violent acts - beheadings, bombing etc. against their own country men - is that because of Palestine issue? Rob, you make me laugh with your ignorance.

The REAL reason is the Quoran. The REAL reason is Islam. Islam promotes and glorifies violent, murder, killings.

Well Joe, I realize you may be a bad example of what passes for the British education system, however that’s not what I said. What I posted was that the United States military has never been defeated in the field to the point of losing a war. Did I go slowly enough for you? The Vietnam War was a political defeat, not a military defeat. Let me know if I used any words that are beyond your limited grasp of the English language.

Mehdi, you're supposed to be a journalist with high-profile responsibilities on a prestigious publication. Repeatedly opening sentences with "but" is bad form.

>> But I do hope she won't be used by the desperate pro-war brigade to make the case for staying and fighting "to the death" with the dastardly Taliban.

More poor journalism. Opinion and conjecture presented as fact. You link to no-one using her execution as a pretext for anything, so it's reasonable to conclude you ain't seen an example. Except for this article, of course, in which you use her execution as a cudgel to beat unnamed enemies with.

Most, of not all of the British newspapers, are critical of our military presence in Afghanistan. A goodly few are in explicit opposition.

Who's calling for "Death to the Taleban"? You're constructing your own fantasies.

>> Don't get me wrong: I despise the medieval and barbaric misogynists of the Taliban.

There's a but coming. I predict it.

>> But let's not pretend that the brutal and corrupt warlords on our side, on Nato and Hamid Karzai's side, are any better.

Who did?

>> Ever heard of General Dostum?

Yes, he strapped someone to the treads of a tank and drove it around the compound. Horrendous, but what does it have to do with the execution of aid workers who were unconnected to the British military?

I think you've just about summed it up. An endless war which lost any focus or purpose it may (?) once have had some years ago. Just one of the lessons of the Iraq catastrophe is that the 'War On Terror' is self-perpetuating. Nato statements still regularly use that phrase even though even old Dubya recanted on it and apologised for it in 2006. The medics are the latest innocent victims. They won't be the last.

Assassinating Innocent charity workers is really the most despicable cheap action imaginable

No one is going to get even till we get out

I appeal to the Editor of The New Statesman to serialise the Quoran and the Hadiths.
That way the world will know what Islam stands for. By so doing it would also expose Islam as a phoney and sham religion. It is your moral obligation to save the world from this so-called religion. So by serialising it, you would do a great favour for mankind.

Most of the Quoran material is a distorted versions of the Jewish Oral Traditions, The Talmud in particular and the OT and NT.

The Jewish Oral Traditions dated from 2 AD (CE). The Quoran incorporated most of the folk tales from the Talmud - See Abraham Geijer 1833, Jay Smith, Dr Abraham Katsh (NY U)

See also Talmudic fables - Targum of Jonathan-ben Uzziah, 150 - 200 AD which is copied verbatim by Quoran 5:31

See also Quoran 5:32 which is copied from Jewish Sanhedrin 4:5. This is the very verse that Muslims all over the world like to quote that Islam is a peaceful religion. Little do they know, its 100% copied from the Sanhedrin 4:5.

Quoran 21:51-71 is copied from Midrash Rabbah 2AD, stories regarding Abraham and the fire - its a Jewish folk lore.

Quoran 27:17 is copied from Jewish folk lore II Targum of Esther written 500 years before Mohammad.

Quoran 2:259 - man die a 100 years- story from The Jewish Fable;

Quoran 2:55-6, 67 that Mosses was resurrected-comes from the Talmud;

Quoran 21:51-71, the errant account of Abraham being delivered from Nimrod comes from Midrash Rabbah;

Quoran 17:1 - Mohammad journey by night to the farthest mosque - from The Testament of Abraham, written 200 BC in Egypt;

The devilish encounter in the 2nd Surah is from Chapter 44 of Midrash Yalkut.

MEHDI HASSAN, there are plenty more where it comes from!!

Q Buckskins:

If you,ve never been defeated in the field, how come we burned WashingtonDC to the ground?
Were you in another field at the time?
:)

Aisha was mutilated in 2008. Its not "what happens if we leave?". Its actually "what's happening right now under our noses." So to speak.

That same Time article conceded that already two Afghan provinces have barred women from leaving home unescorted by males. Other are considering following suit.

What difference does staying make? Is there a catharsis for the politicians in losing as many military lives and funds as possible before actually conceding defeat?

Clem the Germ,

You CAN’T “play his game” You are intellectually deficient and your education is at best a work in progress.