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RSSIn praise of Mayor Bloomberg
A voice of sanity and tolerance amid rampant Islamophobia.
By Mehdi Hasan Published 05 August 2010 14:15
Some of you may be following the row in the United States over plans to build a mosque and community centre two blocks away from Ground Zero. Sarah Palin infamously urged "peaceful Muslims" to "refudiate" (?!?) the mosque and asked "Ground Zero supporters" (who or what are they, exactly?): "doesn't it stab you in the heart"?
But not all Republicans are as batty, sub-literate and Islamophobic as Palin seems to be. The billionaire Republican mayor of New York, Michael Bloomberg, has given a green light to the proposal and, in the words of the Guardian's Richard Adams, "delivered a moving and powerful rebuke to its opponents" in a public speech where he "appeared close to tears".
It's worth reading Mayor Bloomberg's speech in full, but here is, in my view, the best bit:
The World Trade Center Site will forever hold a special place in our city, in our hearts. But we would be untrue to the best part of ourselves -- and who we are as New Yorkers and Americans -- if we said "no" to a mosque in lower Manhattan.
Let us not forget that Muslims were among those murdered on 9/11 and that our Muslim neighbours grieved with us as New Yorkers and as Americans. We would betray our values -- and play into our enemies' hands -- if we were to treat Muslims differently [from] anyone else. In fact, to cave in to popular sentiment would be to hand a victory to the terrorists -- and we should not stand for that.
For that reason, I believe that this is an important test of the separation of church and state as we may see in our lifetime -- as important a test -- and it is critically important that we get it right.
On September 11 2001, thousands of first responders heroically rushed to the scene and saved tens of thousands of lives. More than 400 of those first responders did not make it out alive. In rushing into those burning buildings, not one of them asked "What God do you pray to?" "What beliefs do you hold?"
The attack was an act of war -- and our first responders defended not only our city but also our country and our constitution. We do not honour their lives by denying the very constitutional rights they died protecting. We honour their lives by defending those rights -- and the freedoms that the terrorists attacked.
Of course, it is fair to ask the organisers of the mosque to show some special sensitivity to the situation -- and in fact, their plan envisions reaching beyond their walls and building an interfaith community. By doing so, it is my hope that the mosque will help to bring our city even closer together and help repudiate the false and repugnant idea that the attacks of 9/11 were in any way consistent with Islam.
Muslims are as much a part of our city and our country as the people of any faith, and they are as welcome to worship in lower Manhattan as any other group. In fact, they have been worshipping at the site for the better part of a year, as is their right.
Tags: America Sarah Palin Islam
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Mehdi Hasan is a contributing writer for the New Statesman and the co-author of Ed: The Milibands and the Making of a Labour Leader. He was the New Statesman's senior editor (politics) from 2009-12.
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109 comments
For western liberals cultural and religious sensitivity is a one way street, it is something that is to be shown by, but not to, Europeans and Christians.
20 innocent Muslims died in the 9/11 attack.
NOT DOZENS!!!!!
to be dozens it would have to be at least 24,BUT IF WE INCLUDE THE TERRORISTS...
Mark Kobayashi-Hillary of Reuters:
"Almost 3,000 people died in 9/11, and approximately 60 of those were Muslim. The 9/11 casualty figures are often revised because of the nature of the tragedy, but based on these estimates some two per cent of the casualties were Muslim.
"The Muslim population of the U.S. is 1.8 million people, or 0.6 per cent of all U.S. citizens. Muslims actually suffered more than three times the 9/11 casualties you might expect from a random population sample, although obviously lower Manhattan cannot be considered to be a random sample of average American life."
http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate-uk/2010/07/16/interfaith-centre-at...
http://islam.about.com/blvictims.htm lists about 59 victims by name
So where Matt Sledge writes, "Families are going there to pray -- for the souls of the dozens of innocent Muslim victims who died on September 11." he's about right. Muslim victims total about five dozen.
P.S. Is there any evidence they're not praying for other victims?
@ Des Demona - As long as you remember that this country was founded on the freedom to practice any faith....or none @ at all, as you chose the latter.
We're not bashing you for your choice. Allow us that same courtesy!
Further, it's not MUSLIMS that made this a international issue. It was Islamophobes who are hell-bent on defaming Islam who blew this completely out of proportion.
While I in no way agree with that idiot Palin, am I the only one getting fed up of the way 'Islamaphobia' is bandied about? I'm getting fed up of the amount of exposure Islam seems to be getting wherever you turn. As a seculirist and humanist I see no reason for superstition to be given such a high level of coverage in the media. It especially seems to be Islam and Muslims which receives it. Maybe they are better at PR than other religions?
@ Des Demona : Perhaps then you best get talking to the daily star, sun, express and the mail, who run stories about muslims pretty much on a daily basis.
what do you think fuels the EDL movement ? Muslims havent severely provoked such people, but tabloid newspapers, websites etc all fuel hatred and leads to Islamic exposure. Positive PR is often ignored as it dosent sell, yet a cover page of some fundamentalist idiot who claims himself to be the voice of the muslim people makes headlines and the people are up in arms.
Muslims do not want so much exposure, yet it is media moguls, idiotic fundamentalist minorities that cannot protest humanely and those agitated working class men who blame thier woes on other people that cause it.
i suggest you start writing to these people if it affects you so much.
Us Muslims do not need nor crave the media attention - which the majority is negative properganda. Why not ask media centres like Fox and CNN as to why they seemingly -in your opinion anyway devote so much time to Islam. Because I for one do not appreciate being potrayed as backwards terrorist.
thinkov, factual yes, controversial even but not silly. I call a spade a spade!
@Mehdi - It's my understanding that Bloomberg didn't "green light" the project, he let a panel decide (which decided unanimously that the building that the mosque was due to be built in was not of historic importance and its owners could use it anyway they see fit). i'm totally nitpicking but still.
"I'm getting fed up of the amount of exposure Islam seems to be getting wherever you turn"
So are Muslims! That's why we're "bandying" about the Islamophobia line. You think we want this "exposure"??
@Hova. You're spot on.
It's odd how the Vatican equated women's ordination to that of child abuse, yet its Muslims who continue to be demonised in the tabloids.
And let's not forgot it was Christian fundamentalists in the White House who helped fan the flames of Islamic extremism with their illegal invasions. I guess we've got that to look forward to again in 2012 with President Palin? *shudders*
@Hova
I don't read those rags, but if I did I'd be making the same point while also condemning the constant scaremongering.
@Amina
I agree with you. At the same time I look at the amount of column inches in the NS devoted to matters of Islam, even an entire issue devoted to it in February.
It's a religon, like lots of others, each believing in their own omnipotent diety of whatever description. It's a popular one granted, but must we have it forced down our throats on a daily basis?
Mehdi
See my above post. The NS seems just as guilty of ''exposure''
He's an Independent, not a Republican.
First this is a War Memorial.
Over 3000 innocent civilians were killed on 911 many jumped or were burnt alive.
So,so much for cultural sensitivity.
200ft away...This is a political act, Not a religious act.
So,so much for cultural sensitivity.
To be opened on Sept 11 2011
you could not make it up if you tried.
So,so much for cultural sensitivity.
The 'Cordoba Institute' named after an invading Muslim army who captured it in 711 and built its Grand Mosque on top of the Christian Visigothic Church of St. Vincent!
The Emir Abd ar-Rahman 'I' had 'bought' it.The ancient Church was then reworked over two centuries into a giant Mosque.
In 716 Cordoba became a provincial capital.In May 766, it was elected as capital of the independent Muslim emirate of al-Andalus, later it became a Caliphate itself.
So no mistaking the intent and aspiration of the naming of the institute then!
So much for cultural sensitivity.
So with this in mind maybe the west should return the gesture and build giant Churches in the center of Baghdad and Kabul to aid reconciliation and peace and interfaith understanding!
Do you think that idea would fly!
But that wouldn't be culturally sensitive would it! and of course it would be against sharia the sacred law of Islam.
No Ground Zero Mosque
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmtk30-sTaY
@Nikki
"I would like to address a Shahid, you made a comment that Islam is a very violent religion,"
How do you think Islam expanded in its first 100 years, with a cup of tea and a Koran?!
http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_conquests
Those pesky Christian how dare they fight back they should just role over and let those nice well meaning Muslims conquer them.
You know it makes sense.
How did the Muslims take Jerusalem in the first place?
The main reason for the first crusade was that the Muslims blocked the Christian from making the pilgrimage to Jerusalem, a bit like trying to block Muslims making pilgrimage to Mecca.
When Islams prophet died he had 9 swords each with a name,
Muhammad's Swords
Tabari IX p. 153
Muhammad took three swords from the armor of the Banu Qaynuqa, which were called Qalai, Battar ['very sharp'] and al-Hatf ['death']. After that he had al-Mikhdaham ['sharp'] and Rasub ['that is wont to sink'], which he took from [the property of] al-Fils [a shrine]. It is said that when Muhammad came to Medina, he had two swords with him. One was called al-Adb ['sharp'], with which he participated at Badr. The sword called Dhu al-Faqar was obtained from the booty at Badr. It had belonged to Munabbih b. al-Hajjaj.
No doubt remains as to how he acquired his swords. According to Sura - 8 The Spoils of War (Al-Anfaal)this is not evil. It is lawful and good.
Very peaceful 'Nikki'
I've been to NYC on several occasions it’s a cultural melting pot and the majority of its citizens are very tolerant and respectful of all who reside there, it’s no surprise that the likes of John Lennon praised the place so much. The building of this centre will more than likely go ahead.
Felix, what's with all this Psycho-babble nonsense? I think Felix has way too much time on his hands or maybe not as it seems, it doesn't take long to copy and paste and plagiarise other peoples work from the internet. It’s people like Felix who stir up tension and hatred to the uneducated with his antiquated examples of history. Since you know a great deal about Islamic history, have you tried to get a job with the British National Party? Because Nick Griffin could do with a better speech writer to write his diatribe!
Felix, you have your facts wrong.
It is not a "war memorial", it is a community center. "200 feet" is a huge amount of space, especially in the city. This puts several blocks between Ground Zero and this repurposed building. And no, the plans are to begin building around September 2011. You really have no leg to stand on here.
This is not a government building a mosque, this is group of private citizens using their purchased land as they see fit, as is their right.
Being an atheist, I am pretty "phobic" to all religions I guess. It does bother me that it seems impossible to find anyone who will admit that Muslim is not a homogenous term - a believer in a sweatshop in Jakarta has very little in common with a Saudi Prince - or indeed with any of the (mainly) poor little rich boys who appear to make up the bulk of Al Quaedas' cells.
Don't hurt him, Felix! lol
This is pretty much a non story if they can't raise the 100 million dollars needed to build the thing. If they can raise it then the story might be where did the money come from?
imranp ,
NYC is a cultural melting pot.
True.
Well it used to be.
After being attacked by a bunch of suicidal Muslim fanatics many legitimately feel that they don't want a mosque so close to ground zero.
Check any opinion poll.
Do you feel that anyone who expresses this opinion is a member of the BNP.
Most New Yorkers do not know what the BNP is or even less care.
Can you address any of my points,may be you could copy and paste something from the internet to refute them.
Or perhaps you do not have the intelligence.
"antiquated examples of history"
could someone provide me we a 'translation'.
"Since you know a great deal about Islamic history, have you tried to get a job with the British National Party?"
So now we have the view that anyone who take the trouble to study Islamic history and is not a supporter of Islam must be a BNP member!
What a truly facile and mindless argument.
Astrofil
'Felix, you have your facts wrong.
It is not a "war memorial", it is a community center'
The planed 'Cordoba Institute' IS 200FT from ground zero....which I am sure EVEN you are aware was no community center!
You have not addressed any of the points raised in my previous post you only seem to be capable of what I hope appears to be a deliberate misreading of it.
You also seem to think that merely asserting that 'I do not have a leg to stand on' is some sort of argument.
Please let us all know when your coronation is as I am sure we would all like to attend.
Until then, perhaps try laying off the regal pronouncements.
'New York City is all a buzz lately about a newly proposed 13-story mosque and cultural center to be built just a few blocks from where the Twin Towers once stood in Lower Manhattan. The center, to be named the Cordoba House, is the $100 million brainchild of Feisal Abdul Rauf, a Kuwati-born imamThe American Society for Muslim Advancement (ASMA), which is headed by Rauf’s wife Daisy Khan, and the Cordoba Initiative have partnered to open the center. If approved today by Manhattan’s Community Board, the Cordoba House is scheduled to open on September 11, 2011.'
From.....
http://www.interfaithing.com/cordoba-house-promote-interfaith-dialogue-313/
So WHO HAS HIS FACTS WRONG!
Not exactly a right wing web site!
I may have not a leg to stand on but you seem to be lacking something far more important!
I am fully aware that all Muslims are not terrorist but on this occasion this particular group of Muslims are being highly insensitive and provocative.
Des Demona,Iman Rauf is in Malaysia with his begging bowl at the moment and for such a triumphalist mosque I am sure he will get it filled.
They already have purchased the old building WITH cash!
re Mehdi Hasan
So are Muslims! That's why we're "bandying" about the Islamophobia line. You think we want this "exposure"?
Then may I suggest that you speak to your coreligionists and suggest that they build a mosque somewhere else and donate the land so that the Church St Nicholas that was destroyed by the suicide bombers could be rebuilt in its place.
That I am sure would been seen as a truly generous gesture,that all New Yorkers could applaud.
But I won't be holding my breath.
Proponents of the Islamic Center may have every right to build at this site, and may even have chosen the site to send a positive message about Islam. The bigotry some have expressed in attacking them is unfair, and wrong. But ultimately this is not a question of rights, but a question of what is right. In our judgment, building an Islamic Center in the shadow of the World Trade Center will cause.
We have rights to build a Mosque wherever is necessary. As far as the law is concerned we are not breaking it but nevertheless trying to create a house of God. Keep up the good work. Cheers
Paul Krugman wrote:
Translation: some people will feel bad if this thing is built, and we need to take these feelings into account, even though proponents “have every right to build at this site.”
So let’s try some comparable cases, OK? It causes some people pain to see Jews operating small businesses in non-Jewish neighborhoods; it causes some people pain to see Jews writing for national publications (as I learn from my mailbox most weeks); it causes some people pain to see Jews on the Supreme Court. So would ADL agree that we should ban Jews from these activities, so as to spare these people pain? No? What’s the difference?
One thing I thought Jews were supposed to understand is that they need to be advocates of universal rights, not just rights for their particular group — because it’s the right thing to do, but also because, ahem, there aren’t enough of us. We can’t afford to live in a tribal world.
But ADL has apparently forgotten all that. Shameful — and stupid.
Update: Times staff briefly removed the link to the ADL statement, because it seemed to be dead — but it was apparently just a case of an overloaded server, and I’ve put it back.
'approximately 60 of those were Muslim'...'estimates'...the most accurate confirmed figures not estimates are in my post but no matter.
Even if it was 60 or even if was 100 IT IN FACT JUST SHOW even MORE CLEARLY THE COMPLETE CALLOUS INTENT OF THE BOMBERS!
'Is there any evidence they're not praying for other victims?'
Just the Koran and your own post!
Praying for non-Muslims is prohibited by the Qur'an.
"Nor do thou ever pray for any of them that dies, nor stand at his grave; for they rejected Allah and His Messenger, and died in a state of perverse rebellion. [9/at-Tauba/84]
"It is not fitting, for the Prophet and those who believe, that they should pray for forgiveness for Pagans, even though they be of kin, after it is clear to them that they are companions of the Fire. [9/at-Tauba/113]
I think that makes the general position clear.
Clem.If one says “La ilah illa Allah” (“There is no god but Allah”)and means it,then you are a Muslim whether you are in Jakarta of Saudi Arabia, rich or poor makes no difference.
But as human beings of course Muslims are not homogeneous some will be kind other cruel but these inclinations will be molded and directed by the ideology they follow for good or for ill.
Why do Muslim radicals like to present to the world that they are always being oppressed.
Lets look at the Koran
"Let there be no hostility except against those who practice oppression." [2/al-Baqarah/193]
So of course if they make unreasonable demands which are designed to produce a negative reaction.
They then cry 'oppression' which in turn gives them an excuse for hostility i.e external jihad,war in effect.
The 911 mosque is a case in point if it is built they will cry we won!
If they loose they will cry 'oppression' a win win position for
the Islamist.
We must not be intimidated by this kind of double think.
In the middle of writing a blog about this very same issue, I decided to venture onto your blog to see what you had written about today. That was interesting in itself. What's more fascinating is that we've both decided to use very similar extracts of the speech.
What George Demos has been saying is also ridiculous - he's been misleading the public and it's no surprise that so many people think that this mosque is being built instead of the Church
Virginia Tech Muslim Students' Association Debate Concerning Permissibility of Praying for Mercy for Non-Muslim Victims.
A kind hearted Muslim student set off a debate when she sent an email to the mailing list of the Muslim Students' Association at Virginia Tech asking the students to pray that Allah have mercy on those killed and wounded in the shooting attack at the university.
The Dean of student affairs at American International University, Abu Hamza Hijji, responded,
writing that
'Allah the Most Merciful forbids praying for mercy for the non-Muslim dead, or even for the non-Muslim living, and that it is only permitted to pray that they be rightly guided(i.e become Muslims) He added that what happened was a sad occurrence, but that does not give Muslims the right to transgress the laws of Allah the Most Merciful.'
Aafaq reported that a student named Chris, a recent convert, did not agree, and wrote that he usually does not intervene in this kind of discussion, but that this time he had to say "no." He added that his German teacher, who was wounded in the shooting, is a good man, and that he was praying that he would not die. He said that he would pray for him and for his family, whether they are Muslims or not, and would pray for all those who suffered from this calamity. He expressed the view that religion must bring people together, and not drive them apart, and that the brotherhood of humanity takes precedence over brotherhood of religion or of state.
According to Aafaq, Hijji answered Chris, saying that there is no problem with praying that non-Muslims be kept safe and not be killed, if there is hope that they might be guided [to the right path]; but one cannot pray for the non-Muslim dead, since there is no chance of their being guided. He said that the Prophet Muhammad had told the Muslim soldiers at the battle of Badr to not kill some of the non-believers, even though they were on the battlefield, as they had treated Muhammad well when he was in Mecca.
Hijji wrote that the students should ask Allah to save Chris' teacher (i.e. the German teacher) from death and turn his heart to the truth. But he said at the same time that the Prophet did not pray for forgiveness for the non-Muslims, and in particular did not ask Allah to have mercy on them, even those whom the Prophet had wanted to be guided when they were alive. Once they died, the Prophet was not permitted to ask for mercy for them. Hijji added that the Prophet behaved this way on Allah's instructions.
Hijji wrote that the relative importance of brotherhood in humanity or religion needs to be evaluated according to Allah's laws, and not according to human reason. He added that he might seem to be a hard hearted person, but that this is what people throughout the generations said about the prophets and messengers who came with God's message to guide others to the truth.
George Demos is saying Rebuild Church First,seems only just to me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nna0OT8hA2g
Maybe you are hard of hearing!
They are seizing the land of the Church that was destroyed by terrorist by eminent domain,compulsory purchase..
WHILE RUSHING THROUGH A MOSQUE!SHAME!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sj8HKiFRnog&feature=related
Siraj 'ridiculous' ?
@Felix:
You are a pedantic dick, SHUT UP!!
@Felix "the most accurate confirmed figures ... are in my post"
Your figures appear to be copied and pasted from Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_September_11_attacks
The nationality of a victim, the firm they worked for, or the place of death are not a good indicator of a person's religion. The figures you gave are close to meaningless in that respect.
Using what you consider logic THEY COULD ALL BE MUSLIMS,,,SSHH DONT TELL ANYONE.
They may have killed over 3000
Muslims.
What an spectacular own goal.
I notice you only dispute this,the Koran shut you down on the praying issue did it?
George Demos Discussing Mosque
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7Q_Ai_c7eY&feature=related
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof . . ."--Article 6 US Constitution
Get over it...
I gave up reading half way through because of the pathetic nature of felix's comments. I can only hope that somewhere between the comments half way through and now felix has changed his views.
I therefore apologize for any inaccuracies that may follow and for being far too behind in the debate.
I do not wish this to be a personal attack on one individual, and apologize for the crude and lazy name I have taken.
However, correct me if im wrong, but Felix seems to be researching history online and then posting opinions he may well have made himself or may well have stolen about the evil of Islam and the impending doom that will follow the building of mosques.
I am aware I may be ignorant on my history and facts but I have a few, and being very general and vague, but I don't have the time for the nonsense history and have a few key points that make the facts irrelevant anyway.
Firstly, a moving speech indeed by the Mayor who understands the history of New York. It is a city, like London, and other major cities of the western world with a wide range of cultures. It is what makes them great, a diversity so amazing, and a tolerance so impressive that these cities are loved word lwide( or at least within my group of friends). New York is a city built from many different cultures, it is what makes it so vibrant, where would it be without the Italians, the Jews, the Russians, Muslims and just about any other group you can think of?
Where would America be if it wasn't for immigration? Lets not forget American history. It is a nation made up of immigrants. From imperialistic nations such as Britain, France and Spain, who drove out, persecuted and disregarded the natives and their beliefs and religions and morals. So before you go on complaining about the imperialism of Islam, which is an opinion, why dont you see the damage western and christian nations and empires have caused the world? Why don't we get off our high horse and accept all humans are the same world wide? There may be religious differences, may be cultural differences there may be appearance differences and physical differences. However, if you put these different types of people in a room, without politics, without religion, and this frankly dangerous patriotism and nation state idea, they would not fight. They would chat and get on, play football, or cricket or rugby together, they would sing, drink and enjoy each others company. So before we all go giving reasons such as invasion and skin colour or religion, lets not forget that we all have the same attributes around the world. We all love our mums or love our favourite food, we all love to dance, or listen to music. We all love to enjoy ourselves, or earn money for our children.
So stop this petty idea of Islam taking over the west, its not. In the UK, religion and the state will never be heavily linked again. Who cares which religion is the largest? I don't, its not a problem to me.
I have not re read what I have written, and accept it may be poor, and may be easy to argue against. I have not researched or structured my rant, it is a rant. I also apologize to felix for my previous comments and respect his own opinion.
Ismail .. We have rights to build a Mosque wherever is necessary......One thing I thought Muslims were supposed to understand is that they need to be advocates of universal rights, not just rights for their particular group.
Try building a new church anywhere in the Islamic world! or better still a Hindu or Buddhist temple or maybe a Jewish synagogue.
THEY WILL ALL RUSH TO HELP YOU AND help push through your planning application.LOL
CAIR will I am sure be there to offer its support.
Good grief when will you hypocrites
stop lecturing people on tolerance when you have no intention of showing any unless it a political gesture to advances Islam.
Here's a sensible article from James Fenton of The Evening Standard "The Ground Zero mosque would heal old wounds"
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23864421-the-ground-zero-...
Note James Fenton's clause "An estimated 60 Muslims died on 9/11"
universal rights..HA!
just see the
'CAIRO DECLARATION OF HUMAN RIGHTS IN ISLAM'..
.. what an OIC joke!
sharia , sharia, sharia...you have the universal human right to be ruled by sharia.....
Dream on!
Please go and debate with people less informed and more naive.
Dave C ....
As one the most influential gay people in Britain, James Fenton coming to the support of Islam either shows willful ignorance or total naivete or both.
Talk about suicidal stupidity.
Remember Iran's Ahmadinejad
"In Iran we don't have homosexuals like in your country,In Iran we do not have this phenomenon."
If they discover 'this phenomena' the poor person end's up being hung on a crane!
I suggest he looks at
http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-Englis...
just a small portion...
“An increasing number of people are becoming homosexuals either gays or lesbians in different parts of the world. The former refers to the perverted sexual relationship between man and man while the latter is the title for women practicing sex with women. This is, however, not a new phenomenon; what is new is the attempt of those people who have been considered all the time as outcasts and perverts, to assert their identity and force the rest of the people to recognize and accept them and their relationships as natural ones.
As this is becoming an increasingly dangerous issue, it is indeed important to clarify the attitude of Islam towards homosexuality.'
etc etc etc...you get the picture.
The former Oxford Professor of Poetry finishes his frankly patronising and dismissive tract with 'Even if you considered the Ground Zero mosque to be a tactless gesture, wouldn't no gesture be worse?'
In a word 'NO'.
Gary - a couple of hundred years ago - not long after witches were being burned - that was very enlightened.
Perhaps it would be even more enlightened nowadays to suggest that those who want to believe in sky gods should do so in a manner that doesn't blow people up?
And to avoid accusations of ''Islamaphobia'' the new buzz word, that amendment should also include raping children, chopping foreskins and killing pro choice doctors.
Anyone that thinks this is not a slap in the face to the freedoms we enjoy in America and the murdered innocents is out of touch with reality. We were not attacked by 19 Norwegians that used our freedoms as a weapon against us. Why will they not admit where the finances are coming from for this so called recreation center/mosque? The enemy is Islam. They were dancing in the streets on 9/11 and every Saudi neighborhood had a block party. Get real and forget the PC. The handful of killed Muslims on 9/11 was collateral damage. No more and no less.
HHMMM..
The Oath of Allegiance.
TAKEN BY ALL IMMIGRANTS TO THE USA.
I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform non-combatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God.
MAYBE A BIT OF A CONFLICT HERE!
Something we may all have
to 'get over'!
Once the naivete has worn out.
Muslims can freely exercise their religion in any one of the 100 mosque in New York.
Maybe we should send some Zionist Rabbis and cantors down to the local mosque to perform prayers on the doorstep...you know just to exercise Zionism constitutional rights.I am sure the local Muslim community would be only to happy.
Bye the-way do you know how many new Churches,Temples etc are popping up in Islamic cities?
Any in Saudi Arabia? Islams true motherland.
Are non-Muslims even allowed to set foot in Mecca and Medina? No! I thought not.
But I suppose we should just get over this form of Islamic apartheid.
SUPPORT ISLAMIC RECIPROPHOBIA,YOU KNOW IT MAKES SENSE!
prophets of mercy only please
Excellent, Holy War anyone? Slightly used, but still serviceable.
Whilst agreeing with you that Norway isnt the problem Buckskins, declaring outright war on the beliefs of one third of the planets population seems a bit Gotterdamerung-ish.
Islamist declaring outright war on the beliefs of the over 7.5 Billion of the planets population who are non-Muslim seems a bit Gotterdamerung-ish.
Yep sure does.
But that is what external jihad has always been.
The struggle,quickly or slowly to establish Islams dominance on the planet.
Read the eschatology.
Islamic view of the end times, Isa (Jesus)a prophet and messenger of God. They believe that Jesus was not crucified,a fake took his place; instead he was raised bodily.
According to many hadith believed by the vast majority of Muslims, He will return to Earth. At the time appointed by Allah,when all the other nations of the world are against them,get the picture.
They have to become universal 'victims' before their Mehdi returns.
Jesus will physically return to this world and aid the Mehdi in the final battle.
He will destroy all the crosses, kill all the pigs, slaughter the Dajjal and end all wars by one final war to end all wars, ushering in an era of peace(i.e total Islam).
It really is only up to New Yorkers to decide what they do, but this stream is largely not about that, is it? It really is just a chance for people who have made up their minds one way or another to abuse different points of view.
How useful, I am sure that it helps you all to vent- much better than thinking.
Sure this wont get posted, but. Islam Is lies, sharia law in the us? Thats where a muslie can kill a non muslie and its no big deal. moHAMud, and all you musLIE's out and take a liberal under you arm as for a slave, hell take two or three. This aint over til we bbq a pig, drink beer, and kiss our women in public.
THIS JUST GETS BETTER AND BETTER..
Al-Masri Al-Yawm, Egypt, August 5, 2010.
Al-Azhar Clerics Oppose Ground Zero Mosque.
Clerics from Al-Azhar have rejected the construction of a mosque near New York's Ground Zero.
A member of the Al-Azhar Islamic Research Center, Dr. Abd Al-Muwati Biyumi, said that the mosque's construction could connect Islam and 9/11, while Islam is innocent of the deed.He also called the plan a "Zionist plot."
Al-Azhar University in Egypt, founded in 970~972 , is the chief centre of Arabic literature and Sunni Islamic learning in the world.