I agree with David Cameron (!)
Nick Clegg and the Lib Dems are all over the place on their coalition “strategy”.
By Mehdi Hasan Published 26 April 2010 13:02Regular readers of this blog will know that I rarely agree with David Cameron, but I can't help but concur with his line on the Lib Dems this morning:
He [Cameron] said the Lib Dems were in "complete muddle and confusion" as they had not spelt out what they would do if Labour won the most seats -- but comes second in terms of overall votes.
He's got a point, hasn't he? On Sunday, Clegg threw away months of hard work, having dodged and ducked questions about which party he would back ever since talk of a hung parliament went mainstream back in November. His careful formula was expressed on the BBC's Andrew Marr programme on 22 November 2009:
I start from a very simple first principle: it is not Gordon Brown or David Cameron or Nick Clegg who are kingmakers in British politics, it's the British people. Whichever party have the strongest mandate from the British people . . . have the first right to seek to try and govern, either on their own or with others.
Even though he was then repeatedly asked to define "mandate" -- votes or seats? -- Clegg stuck to this carefully worded formula right up until the start of this election campaign on 6 April. But Cleggmania seems to have gone to his head -- and he threw away all the hard work he'd put into evading and dodging the "What do you mean by a mandate? Votes or seats?" question.
On yesterday's edition of Marr, elaborating on his statement in the Sunday Times, the Lib Dem leader said:
It seems to me that it's just preposterous, the idea that if a party comes third in terms of the number of votes, it still has the right to carry on squatting in No 10 and continue to lay claim to having the prime minister of the country.
. . . What I'm saying here is pointing at a very, very irrational possible outcome of our potty electoral system, which is that a party that has spectacularly lost the election . . . could nonetheless according to constitutional tradition and convention still lay claim to providing the prime minister of the country.
The genie is out of the bottle -- and Cameron is right to point it out. Once Clegg has said the Lib Dems won't back Labour if the latter comes third (but wins most seats), he has to explain whether they'd back Labour if it comes second (but wins most seats). Clegg's ducking and diving will no longer do.
So the Lib Dems do seem muddled and confused. Clegg's answer, says the Indie's Simon Carr:
. . . certainly surprised a senior member of the Liberal Democrat command I mentioned it to later. "Surely he said that he wouldn't support Gordon if Labour got fewer votes?" Nope, he wouldn't support the Labour Party. "I'll have to go and watch it," the Liberal Democrat said.
Maybe it was a mistake. Because then Marr asked what he, Clegg, would do if Labour changed the leader after the election. He didn't say: "I repeat, if the party lost the popular vote, I wouldn't keep it in office." He said instead: "Here we get into the 'what-if' territory that I find very difficult."
And he went back to earlier ideas of collaborating with the party that would deliver Liberal Democrat manifesto commitments. But he couldn't do that with Labour polling fewer votes than the Tories because he ruled it out.
There is another important point worth raising: why does Nick Clegg think Gordon Brown would automatically lose the right to remain in Downing Street if Labour came third? Why do the Lib Dems, who have for so long rightly argued for the need for a government to secure more than 50 per cent support from the electorate, now seem so obsessed with pluralities and not majorites, that is to say, with who is first, second or third, rather than with who can command majority support?
The fact is that if -- and, I admit, it remains a big "if" -- the Lib Dems decided to enter into a formal coalition with Labour on 7 May, then such a coalition government, with Brown in charge, would -- according to current polling -- command the support of more than half the electorate.
In fact, such a coalition would have a greater popular mandate, and reflect the votes of a higher proportion of voters, than any government since the Second World War. So why couldn't Brown then stay on in No 10?
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8 comments
One point that Nick Clegg would be right , in , is practically saying that if Labour were to come third in the popular vote ,it is very unlikely that they will get more than 200 seats. In which case if the Lib-dems were to theoretically win 150 seats , and the Cons be just short of an overall majority , Nick Clegg would not form a coalition with Labour , just to keep Labour in Government .
That does make common sense , and I believe that is the scenario which Nick Clegg had in mind when he made the comment .
Nick Clegg was simply pointing out how absurd David Cameron is being ,in Tory attempts to bully people into not voting for a hung parliament,as the Tories would not be willing to cooperate and work together to help the country pull out of this recession ,by having all the politicians work with each other .
It's amazing how many people are tying themselves in knots over this. Clegg's statement was more about saying that Brown could not be expected to be Prime Minister if he was voted in to third place, it was less about saying who would be in coalition. Tories are spinning it one way, Labour the other...meanwhile Clegg has not changed or altered his stance one jot since the campaign started.
The only thing he's saying is that if there would be a Labour/Lib coalition then perhaps it should be the Lib Dem leader, in second place in the polls and with the highest approval rating, that takes the PM spot.
Lee, that might be difficult in practical terms given that in such a scenario, Labour would still have triple as many MPs in the Commons as the Lib Dems.
Clegg has ruled out Labour. Cameron is courting Clegg with PR. Cameron has said that because so many Labour voters are looking to Clegg they have a chance of winning more Labour marginals. These two have now intensified the Vote Clegg get Cameron mantra more than Labour ever did.
http://redrag1.blogspot.com/2010/04/red-rag-cameron-targets-more-labour....
As a Conservative supporter I can see more fundamental similarities between Labour and Conservative policies than either party with the LibDems. Both are in favour of investment in nuclear power, both want to retain Trident and the Eurofighter project (on which 2 members of my family work),both have a more rational approach to the immigration issue.The main difference is Big government versus the Big society, but maybe we could have the best of both worlds. So how about a LabCon coalition? That would put Clegg in his place.
"Triple as many"? Quite apart from not being English, this is mere speculation. Each party will have between 0 and ~650 MPs, sometime on the Friday afternoon. Most are (rashly thought to be) certain, while many are not. It's futile to try to put numbers on it now.
Surely the point is that all 3 parties will undoubtedly have battalions of wonks working out their strategies for an almost infinite number of national results. This really is the most charged an interesting election that I have witnessed. The mischievous anarchist in me is looking forward to seeing the parties cope with the unpredictable and unexpected.
Finally, it's absurd for the Labour and Conservative parties to try to frighten us with the dangerous prospect of uncertainty. In the event of a hung parliament, the civil service will continue to run the country. They will probably do it a great deal better than they do when subject to daily partisan political pressure; and that's surely what frightens the politicians most!
haha, what poll has claimed that 2/3rds of the public want a Gordon brown led Lib/Lab coalition? I have not seen such a thing mentioned in any of the dead tree or online press/blogs.
You aer clutching at strawrs, Labour coming third basically means Brown has no popular mandate whatsoever from the people to remain as PM. Irrespective of what the parliamentary rules state, the general public would be in outrage for Brown to remain as PM in such a scenario. Take off your rose tinted glasses and admit at least this simple fact.
It's futile for journalists to insist that the parties specify the outcome of post-election negotiations at this stage.
The LibDems say both that the party coming third in the popular vote could not "lay claim to providing the prime minister of the country" and also that achieving a PR electoral system is the highest priority. The Conservatives rule out PR but the LibDems say that "whichever party have the strongest mandate from the British people ... have the first right to seek to try and govern, either on their own or with others". Clearly there are potential conflicts in these commitments and something may have to go in the course of negotiation.
I think it would be an outrage if the LibDems, holding the balance of power were to give up PR, but the way is open for the Tories to agree to a referendum on PR (though the LibDems must beware of a snap general election enabling the Tories to welsh on the commitment).
Alternatively, if the Tories failed to form a government, it would be quite legitimate for the LibDems to negotiate a government with Labour to avoid stalemate.