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Horrific shooting at Fort Hood
- Posted by Mehdi Hasan
- 06 November 2009 12:37
What does this mean for America's Muslim soldiers?
Having spent two years working in the relentless, 24-hour-world of Sky News, dealing with "breaking news" stories, I am almost immune to stories out of the United States of gunmen running amok and killing members of the public/co-workers/students/delete-where-applicable. However, the latest incident at Fort Hood - the largest US military base in the world - in which 13 people were killed, and more than 30 injured, is different for two reasons.
First, the nature of the attack is so horrific, shocking and treacherous, with a US army major and mental health professional turning his weapon on his own colleagues and fellow soldiers in such a cold-blooded manner in the middle of a military base. As President Obama said, ""It is difficult enough when we lose these brave men and women abroad, but it is horrifying that they should come under fire at an army base on US soil." And that too, by a fellow man in uniform. The attack came less than 48 hours after it emerged that five British soldiers in Afghanistan had been killed - in a surprise attack - by a "rogue" Afghan policeman who opened fire on them as they sat sipping tea at a checkpoint in the Helmand province. The stench of betrayal, in both incidents, is overwhelming.
The second aspect of the attack that makes it stand out is that the attacker, who has survived and is in hospital, is Muslim - Major Nidal Malik Hasan, a trained psychiatrist. Was this, therefore, a "terrorist attack"? Is Hasan a "jihadist" infiltrator? These are, perhaps understandable, questions that are now being raised.
However, some commentators on the US right and far-right have gone further in providing definitive, conclusive and politically convenient motives for the attack, based on little more than speculation and prejudice. Take Robert Spencer. The best-selling conservative author, self-proclaimed "scholar of Islamic history" and notorious Muslim-baiter has a piece on the attack on the Front Page magazine website, entitled "Jihad at Fort Hood" (!) in which he opines, under a massive mugshot of Maj Hasan:
Major Hasan's motive was perfectly clear -- but it was one that the forces of political correctness and the Islamic advocacy groups in the United States have been working for years to obscure. So it is that now that another major jihad terror attack has taken place on American soil...
"Clear"? Spencer must be a mind-reader because Hasan has not said why he carried out the attack, nor have the authorities provided a motive - yet. Perhaps he was a terrorist, and carried out the attack out of "Islamist" or "jihadist" hatred for US foreign policy in Iraq and Afghanistan. Perhaps he was mentally unbalanced and simply "snapped". The BBC is reporting "that he had been increasingly unhappy in the military" and his cousin has told US media that the idea of overseas deployment had been Major Hasan's "worst nightmare" and that he had been battling racial harassment because of his "Middle Eastern ethnicity". Then there are the internet postings that discuss suicide bombings and other threats which officials say he may or may not have made.
The point is that, at this stage, we simply don't know. So why speculate, let alone conclude? Back to the BBC report:
Asked whether the shootings were a terrorist act, Lt Gen Cone [the base commander] said: "I couldn't rule that out but I'm telling you that right now, the evidence does not suggest that."
People like Robert Spencer are nasty, divisive and Islamophobic bigots who take whatever opportunity, whatever tragedy, they can to stir up hatred against Muslims and Islam in the west.
I wonder what it must be like to be a patriotic American Muslim serving in the United States armed forces right now - there are up to 10,000 American Muslims serving their country who will now, I assume, be treated with suspicion and considered, by Robert Spencer and others of his ilk, as potential fifth-columnists or Al Qaeda infiltrators.
As one Fort Hood soldier told the BBC:
They've taken it hard, due to the fact that it kind of puts a negative light on them and makes people distrust them because everybody is going to look at them [and think]: 'Well, you're probably going to pull something like this'," the soldier said. "And it's a sad fact that that will happen."
Update: The BBC website now has added a piece on how the attack might affect the thousands of Muslims serving in the US military.
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47 comments from readers
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Forlornehope
06 November 2009 at 13:13 After the gunpowder plot all Catholics were branded as traitors even though the vast majority were horrified at what had been attempted in their name. Over the following centuries Catholics had to prove their loyalty to the Crown. The honour roles in the chapels of their schools show just how that was done. Perhaps this time round we can be a bit more enlightened. Nevertheless it is not unfair to expect the Muslim community to demonstrate by both words and deeds that they are first and foremost loyal citizens of those countries where they have chosen to reside.
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Outraged
06 November 2009 at 14:16 This is redic that we are more concerned about if we should let Muslims in the military than who all the innocent soldiers were that either lost their lives or were wounded. Here we go again worrying about people’s rights instead of closing the loop on allowing idiots like this guy in. Reports are coming out that he received a poor performance rating recently and was promoted in May. WTH!!!! Prime example of, poor little Muslim being picked on because he is standing up for his rights. If this were a Caucasian I am sure they would have been busted down in rank if not kicked out. WHEN IS ENOUGH ENOUGH!!!!
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Mehdi Hasan
06 November 2009 at 15:29 "Outraged" - did you know that "Caucasians" can be Muslims too? And did you know that writing in caps makes your argument no less absurd and extreme?
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Pilot22A
06 November 2009 at 16:11 But, but, doesn't the Qu"ran say that all "Infidels" should be killed?
Doesn't that mean that suicide bombing would meet or hasten that objective?
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Khan
06 November 2009 at 16:11 I would not be surprised if Muslims were no longer allowed to enlist in the US military after the fallout of this event. Reports coming out now are that he was to be posted to Afghanistan and did not want to go also that he was screaming "Allahu Akbar!" [God is great] before opening fire. This is all going to lead to Muslims in America and indeed the world being seen as untrust worthy and basically the enemy.
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Tom
06 November 2009 at 17:49 You seem to be looking for excuses for a religiously motivated attack.
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JA
06 November 2009 at 18:19 I'm sorry ''Outraged'' but shouldn't you be posting on the Daily Mail website instead of New Statesman, seeing as the Daily Mail fits in line with you're own pathetic views. I'm so sorry we pathetic Muslims are in your lands killing innocent people....oh wait...
And ''Pilot22A'' why do you insist on promoting this false and stereotypical view that ''infidels'' should be killed. It's not true, go and educate yourself you ignorant and Islamaphobic fool.
Constantly targeting Muslims as a whole for the acts of a few will not get you and us anywhere. All it does is turn Muslims into 2nd class citizens. There are 1.5bn Muslims in the world, eventually we'll probably be the largest faith, so this anti-Muslim stance that people like outraged have will not serve you well in the future. And before you say it, no I'm not saying that Europe or the USA will become Muslim lands, I'll leave that to News Corp.
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John Carp
06 November 2009 at 18:22 His motives could have been the same as the Oklahoma City bomber Timothy McVeigh, who committed a 'terrorist attack' after turning against American foreign policy. Mr McVeigh served in the army during the Gulf War, and was much later highly critical of both the American army and American foreign policy. It wasn't 'religiously' motivated, it was politically motivated. Perhaps the perpetrator here was also politically motivated.
Mr Hasan's motives could have been he was temporarily or permanently insane.
For Mr Spencer to claim the motives are "perfectly clear" can only be seen as prejudice. He doesn't work for Fox News by any chance?
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Eustace Attor
06 November 2009 at 18:47 I note that Mehdi has deleted my comment! What a surprise from a 'dissident voice' - a brave proponent of free speech! His own free speech that is. I had pointed out that comment on 'moderate' Muslim blogs today is universally in favour of the Major's action and that it describes us non-Muslims in exactly the terms Mehdi recently used at London's Al Khoei foundation when, like the Muslim bloggers today, he vilifed us as 'kaffirs' (a hate word) and 'ignorant cattle'. Mehdi - like today's bloggers - and of course Major Hasan who spent most of the last 4 months praising suicide bombers - thought none of us 'ignorant' 'kaffir' 'cattle' would notice his little rant, which was solely for the benefit of his fellow Shia Muslims. Unfortunately it was being secretly filmed and recorded and is now all over the internet. So his exclamations of horror here are hardly likely to be taken seriously. In fact nobody in the London media world trusts him or will ever take him seriously again: his card has been well and truly marked and everything he says is dismissed with contempt. I also pointed out that the Muslim bloggers today insist that Islamic scholarship is agreed that Muslims may only join non-Muslim societies or armies in order to destroy them from within, just as Mehdi, the Major and every other Muslim in the West has sought to do! Unfortunately Mehdi, we are not all as stupid as you and the rest of the faithful. We know exactly what the Mehdi the Major Hasans in our midst are up to. Deleting this post will certainly not alter that.
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JA
06 November 2009 at 19:21 Eustace Attor, having read your post, I am now a supporter of abortions.
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Eustace Attor
06 November 2009 at 19:44 Dearest JA -
I am not quite sure. I am generally against abortion, except in the case of Muslims, when it should be compulsory. Muslims bring such joy to the world, do they not?
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Eustace Attor
06 November 2009 at 20:00 I hasten to add that I was, like JA, being facetious, above!
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Just Observer
07 November 2009 at 00:44 The acts of a few madmen and a whole religion with its 1.5 Billion followers is under scrutiny..who will scrutinize the acts of the madmen from the west who relentlessly continue to kill millions through illegal wars? Why does nobody see and feel for the bloodshed that takes place in the name of "restoring democracy"? How can an entire House that is supposed to represent "democracy" unanimously choose to ignore and vote against a report that clearly points to heinous war crimes and gross injustice to innocent civilians? are the lives of people in the west any more valuable than people who live anywhere else in the world???
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Mehdi Hasan
07 November 2009 at 00:51 "Eustace Attor" - I'm not sure I believe that you were only being "facetious" and I could easily believe that you want to abort all Muslim children. Your earlier comment was deleted not because you attacked me - any visitor to this blog will know that I'm a big boy and I can look after myself! - but because you made such sweeping and bigoted claims against an entire faith community, and made horrible accusations which might incite hate and which I will not repeat. Therefore it was deleted. But, look at your latest comment: can you imagine saying you would abort Jews? Or blacks? It put's your "facetious" remarks in context. As for your repeated and inaccurate attacks on me (it wasn't filmed in "secret" as it was done with my consent! it wasn't filmed in London but in Manchester and had nothing to do with the Khoie Foundation!), my response, as always, is here:
http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/dissident-voice/2009/07/is...
"Just Observer" - you have a point!
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KrazyKafir
07 November 2009 at 07:41 So Mehdi spent two years as a lackey of Rupert Murdoch? It appears that pay packets do trump principles.
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Luddite.
07 November 2009 at 08:44 What is mentally wrong with muslims
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JA
07 November 2009 at 11:57 And of course Luddite, asking ''what is mentally wrong with muslims'' is perfectly fine.
And good point by Just Observer. Ultimately Western interests trump everything else, one American life is worth 100 Chinese and Muslims. The Texas shooting allows the right-wing to attack Islam and Muslims, but of course when the west is criticized it's unacceptable.
The UNGA resolution regarding the Goldstone Report will be sent to the Security Council, but nothing will be done, while the International Criminal Court was set up to deal with breaches of international criminal law - of course Al Bashir can be indicted but God forbid a western leader were to stand trial for Iraq and Afghanistan.
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Dmoloney
07 November 2009 at 13:05 www.newstatesman.com/blogs/dissident-voice/2009/07/is...
Terrific response, taking issue with the way those foul fiends at harrys place called you an Islamist, granted the fact that they specifically said that you were not an Islamist slighty takes away from your arguement, but lets ignore that, shall we, you wiley scamp.
"of course Al Bashir can be indicted but God forbid a western leader were to stand trial for Iraq and Afghanistan."
Why Afghanistan, polls constantly show most Afghans feel that war was justified and they feel that way surely the war should be given the thumps up overall
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Charles Martel
07 November 2009 at 13:13 Dear Mehdi - How interesting that you are now blocking Eustace Attor's attempts to post. It shows that you as a Muslim realise you must conceal the texts that reveal your community's genocidal imperialism towards us 'ignorant' 'Kaffir' 'cattle', just as you thought you could conceal your own ravings. How very unfortunate for you that 'moderate Muslim leaders' are always like you speaking in "all Muslim fora" where people have mobile phones whose contents leak to the Kaffir 'Cattle' and the Charles Manson-evoking Koran is on sale in every Waterstone's! And then of course there are the Major Hasans of this world, whose activities are also rather difficult to suppress, much as the BBC, Guardian etc try to suggest he was a total innocent suffering from stress brought on by haemmerrhoids. Or motivated by rage at Western imperialism (which you know I detest) - in which case why don't I go out and kill Muslims because 2 million of my fellow Christians were slaughtered by the Islamic Govt in Khartoum? And what about the 270 million Hindus, Buddhists, killed by Muslims during the last 1,400 years of Muslim imperialism? Almost every single 'Muslim' country today was stolen by force from a non-Muslim people who were then exterminated or more or less forcibly converted. You Muslims condemn Western imperialism only because you support your own. Unfortunately your Canute like attempts to prettify your repulsive and malicious faith has failed. Anti-Muslim parties triumph everywhere and according to a 2006 poll 53 per cent of Brits say they hate Islam and want Muslims out. So I am afraid blocking Eustace's posts is not going to do you or all the other useless Muslim destroyers in Britain much good.
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Noa Zrk
07 November 2009 at 13:24 He's killed 13 unarmed people.
It may be that he did this because he considers himself an Islamic jihadist, or because he didn't like people queuing.
The strength of the US judicial system is that it will not try and judge him on the subjective rights and wrongs of his beliefs, but on the mass murders he has committed.
Whether or not he will be tried for treason is a separate matter. If his argument then was that he had a conflict between his religious beliefs as a muslim and his secular duties as a soldier he should resigned from the army. Any failure to do so is an undeclared act of treachery which should be punishable by death.,
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Charles Martel
07 November 2009 at 13:36 And by the way, what are all you 'kaffir'-hating Muslims doing here in the West if Islam is so great? Ever wondered why nobody - least of all the world's Muslims - wants to live in the Muslim world? Why most Muslim countries are poor, retarded, barbaric tyrannies? Couldn't have something to do with Islam, could it? So how will trying to Islamise US help YOU, given that Islam always brings horror and catastrophe in its wake? The last 50 years of Muslim settlement in Britain sure have been wonderful for the rest of us, haven't they?!
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a.m.r.
07 November 2009 at 13:39 Details emerging about the shooter from colleagues seem to be strengthening the view that his killing motive was connected to his view of America's role in the war, which it seems he saw as a war against Muslims.
These reports also confirm that he had been involved in arguments about his religion, and had suffered abuse and harrassment because of it eg. his bumper sticker 'Allah is Love' had been torn off and his car had been keyed. (The Army employee responsible for the act was charged by the police.)
The evidence so far indicates that he was acting alone, and wasn't part of any jihadist group.
From an NPR interview :
"Earlier today, I spoke to a psychiatrist who worked very closely with Hasan and knows him very well. And he said, you know, from the beginning -and Hasan was there for four years - the medical staff was very worried about this guy. He said the first thing is he's cold, unfriendly. At least that's who he came off. He did not do a good job as a psychiatrist in training, was repeatedly warned, you better shape up, or, you know, you're going to be in trouble. Did badly in his classes, seemed disinterested. But second of all - and this is, perhaps, you know, more relevant. The psychiatrist says that he was very proud and upfront about being Muslim. And psychiatrist hastened to say, and nobody minded that. But he seemed almost belligerent about being Muslim, and he gave a lecture one day that really freaked a lot of doctors out.
"They have grand rounds, right? They, you know, dozens of medical staff come into an auditorium, and somebody stands at the podium at the front and gives a lecture about some academic issue, you know, what drugs to prescribe for what condition. But instead of that, he - Hasan apparently gave a long lecture on the Koran and talked about how if you don't believe, you are condemned to hell. Your head is cut off. You're set on fire. Burning oil is burned down your throat."
"And I said to the psychiatrist, but this cold be a very interesting informational session, right? Where he's educating everybody about the Koran. He said but what disturbed everybody was that Hasan seemed to believe these things. And actually, a Muslim in the audience, a psychiatrist, raised his hand and said, excuse me. But I'm a Muslim and I do not believe these things in the Koran, and then I don't believe what you say the Koran says. And then Hasan didn't say, well, I'm just giving you one point of view. He basically just stared the guy down"
[..]
"I want to add something else about Hasan at Walter Reed. The psychiatrist I talked to today said that he was the kind of guy who the staff actually stood around in the hallway, saying: Do you think he's a terrorist, or is he just weird?"
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1201628...
From the Telegraph:
" "He said Muslims should stand up and fight the aggressor and that we should not be in the war in the first place." He said that Maj Hasan said he was "happy" when a US soldier was killed in an attack on a military recruitment centre in Arkansas in June. An American convert to Islam was accused of the shootings."
"Col Lee alleged that other officers had told him that Maj Hasan had said "maybe people should strap bombs on themselves and go to Time Square" in New York. "
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/6...
From the NY Times:
"In an interview on NBC’s “Today” show, Lt. Gen. Robert W. Cone, the Fort Hood commander, was asked about reports that before opening fire, Major Hasan had yelled “Allahu akbar!” — “God is great!” General Cone said soldiers at the scene had reported “similar” accounts."
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/07/us/07forthood.html?_r=1&pa...
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alan stoddart
07 November 2009 at 14:14 Mehdi seems more concerned with how this effects other Muslims...and uses it as an excuse to attack commentators he doesn't like.
There was ample prima facie evidence to indicate that Hasan had taken a certain path and finally made up his mind as to where his loyalties lay.
As for Spencer stirring up hatred I think you forget that it was attacks by Muslims using the Koran as a guide that is the catalyst for critical analysis of the Muslim world.
Surely Allah does not change the condition of a people until they change what is within themselves.
Look to yourself and your religion before you criticise others.
The facts remain however much you bury your head in the sand and try to blame others...Hasan killed because he was a Muslim. If he hadn't been a Muslim he wouldn't have done this.
If he had been a born again Christian on the rampage or someone who had watched too many violent videos I don't think we would be hearing from you. I don't see your comments on the killings in Orlando the next day...I guess Rodriguez isn't a Muslim name.
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Samantha Dyer
07 November 2009 at 22:07 Make love not war. So much hate. Where does it all come from?!? Some of the National Front morons writing on this website should crawl back under the stone they reared their ugly heads from. We don't need you here, just as we don't need insane murderers like Major Nidal Malik Hussain.
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dominic
08 November 2009 at 02:01 This animal was a Muslim jihadist, pure and simple. Indeed, he was busy distributing Korans that day before he died. You might therefore wonder whether there was anything in this book of the so called "religion of peace" that would have restrained his murderous, genocidal behaviour? Sadly, Malik Hussain's actions were entirely JUSTIFIED by the Koran, in the same way the 14,000 deaths due to Islamic terrorism since 9/11 have been. Islam is not, has never been, and never will be a religion of peace. It is a totalitarian geopolitical project first, and a religion for personal application second. Dumb white liberals flirt with it at their peril.
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ExplodingBadger
08 November 2009 at 02:34 Those quick to condemn and judge should look at their own countries involvement in the middle east which in many cases especially the US and UK is much worse than anything this one guy did.
Over a million people have died in Iraq due to the invasion by a Christian country. It is the US which has a colonial project to take control of the oil rich middle east by use of violence. How many more innocent people have died in Afghanistan ? It is the people of the middle east who are the victims and even if this guy was motivated by these evil things even though I don't agree with violence I could understand it.
People who are racists and want to justify their attitudes and anything their country does no matter how vile will always use this kind of thing to spread hatred and suspicion.
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Ethan
08 November 2009 at 03:13 I suppose "ExplodingBadger" thinks the Taliban was good for Muslims in Afghanistan, and the totalitarianism of Saddam Hussein better suits the Islamic condition that does democracy. We understand perfectly well your point, which is that Islamic societies are inherently irrational and therefore need a heavy heel upon them to maintain social cohesion. We are beginning to understand this condition first hand here in the states. We also understand that we are propping up a government in Afghanistan that espouses the raping your wife is not possible. These are supposed to be Muslim moderates as well. Most in the west do not want you here, we feel like we are being forced to accept your integration into our societies. Listen very carefully ... we don't want it.
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Evelyn from Texas
08 November 2009 at 06:26 Hasan did his best to stand apart from both his fellow soldiers and physician colleagues and from his co-religionists as well: 1) He attended mosque in US military fatigues while shopping for his breakfast as a local convenience store while wearing traditional Islamic dress. 2) Hasan asked for help in finding a very traditional, non-Westernized wife at the Washington, D. C., area mosque he attended. 3) The co-founder of the Islamic Community Center in Killeen, Texas, thought that Hasan was definitely mentally imbalanced.
Hasan probably wasn't discriminated all that much as a Muslim in the US Army in recent years because his rank as an officier would have protected him for the most part from overt discrimination. I was a newspaper reporter for The Killeen Daily Herald during the Vietnam War, and during the late 1990s also taught freshman college English at a local community college there: Killeen is a very diverse community made up of many ethnic groups, but its one unifying factor is that it is totally army-centered, so everyone looks at rank rather than religion or race. Indeed, officiers live in one part of town while enlisted men live in another part of town. Again, here Hasan also differed from his fellow officiers, taking a very-inexpensive ($350) flat in an especially run-down section of Killeen.
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Luddite.
08 November 2009 at 07:03 If Islam is so wonderful why is it that most refugees are muslim fleeing other muslims. I see nothing in that faith remotely appealing the extreme-left's flirtation with Islam will be the end of left-wing politics the extreme right nolonger even have to try the left and Islam is going the job for them true Socialist have nothing what so ever in common with religious nutter!!
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swatantra nandanwar
08 November 2009 at 09:50 This single act could well break that fragile consensus in America and undo the good reltions between muslims settled in the USA. There have been no attacks on Muslims after 9/11. But the motives for this act are still unclear as Obama said Was it kust another incident of someone cracking up because of bullying harrassment and name calling at work or is it more? Often victimisation is the tigger for revenge. in these mass shootings, The man was a trained psychiatrist but professional practitioners may well blur the lines between right and wrong and lose their mind and regarding theselves saviours, better than their colleagues and getting their own back on society.
I think an element of racism plays a part in this incident and the excuse these individuals make is that they are figting the cause of Islam,. But they may have been'radicalised'. It happened when a doctor was involved in the Glasgow Airport incident and other such, Who can we then trust? It means more draconian vetting introduced. These incidents are counter productive to Islam and have created a climate of fear and paranoia. It will be very difficult getting back to a normal open society again.
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duh_swami
08 November 2009 at 12:06 Spencer at least dedicated the time to study Islam. No one posting here can out debate him on that subject...If you wish to try, you can contact him at Jihad watch.org
Self proclaimed or not, he knows what he is talking about.
Maybe you 'know it all's' should crack open a Quran, read a few Hadith...Soon you will find yourself agreeing with Spencer. That's because the evidence is all there...If you have the slightest intellectual honesty left, you will see the light...
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Duckham
08 November 2009 at 12:11 Alot of you commenting on hgere are making the usual mistake of thinking that Islam is one great big monolithic block of faith. Most Muslims are quite happy in their own countries and have no wish to go to the West. Those that are refugees and astlum seekers are fleeing wars and conflict and authoritarian governments. In these cases the wars are usually started by the West (these days) and most of the authoritarian governments are supported by the West so you kind of owe them one in effect to be honest.
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Duckham
08 November 2009 at 12:17 duh_swami
08 November 2009 at 12:06
If you had the slightest knowledge of Islam you would know that the Hadiths came after the Koran so you won't find them in there.
And Spencer agrees that Islam is not a monolith and that there are many variations and interpretations so taking the Koran as the overall standard is a false base to work from. Try http://duckham.net.tf if you want a bit of balance about Islam in the modern world and how it works with secular democracies.
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Paul
08 November 2009 at 14:15 Why is it impossible to comment on this on blogs, without it being deleted? If that behaviour was solely confined to blogs, it might be an avoidable issue, but of course the 'deletionist' bloggers reflect a wider climate of rigidity.
It does seem to be completely impossible to conduct a 'discussion' of the issues raised by this and similar incidents, because there is simply no place to do so. Is that purely my problem, in the sense that I must go away and not say anything? Formally, yes, because I don't own this blog, and those who do, have no obligation to publicise my views.
But on the other hand, these same people often claim that they are in favour of free speech, and discussion, and public debate. That apparently doesn't apply to issues such as Islam and immigration: they insist that these are conducted under conditions of self-censorship.
I would indeed like to comment on this item by Mehdi Hasan, but more than that, I would like to see open discussion of certain major issues, which concern (and agitate) many people, not just in the UK but in most of western society. In the long run the collective refusal to speak about them, will have very negative effects.
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Just Observer
08 November 2009 at 15:32 Religion is a fine scape-goat to blame all the wrong-doings in this world. It is used to mask the failure of the human being to take responsibility for his/her actions. However, no religion is larger than life. Interpreted right, all religions provide the best guide to living in peaceful co-existence in a balanced civil society. It is in the power and will of every human being, irrespective of religious affiliation, to preserve basic human dignity and civil rights, by making the right choices. Some people do, some people don’t. It is the individuals who make these wrong choices who are to be blamed (whether they are Muslim, Christian, Jew, Hindu etc ) – not the religion. Osama bin Laden and his al quaeda, other fundamentalist muslims who kill innocents by abusing the name of god, the israeli government who committed mass murders, george bush, tony blair, the people heading the big oil and defence corporations, henry kissinger, the hindus who committed the Gujarat massacre to name a few.
The venom one can feel on this blog is better directed at individuals like this rather than against religions at large.
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duh_swami
08 November 2009 at 15:40 Duckham...If you had the slightest knowledge of Islam you would know that the Hadiths came after the Koran so you won't find them in there.
Did you actually read the post? I didn't say Hadith were in the Quran, I said...
Maybe you 'know it all's' should crack open a Quran, read a few Hadith...I didn't say AND read a few hadith...
Everyone knows that ahadith is not the Quran...I just assumed you were educated enough on the subject that I would not have to explain it to you...I guess not...
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Dmoloney
08 November 2009 at 16:32 "And what about the 270 million Hindus, Buddhists, killed by Muslims during the last 1,400 years of Muslim imperialism?"
Charles Martel I heard some figures that place the number to be around 70 million, where did the 270 figure come from?
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a.m.r.
08 November 2009 at 18:02 Mehdi Hasan's description of Robert Spencer as a self-proclaimed "scholar of Islamic history" and notorious Muslim-baiter' doesn't go far enough.
Apart from his wild-eyed weblog, wherein the reader is misinformed that all Muslims want to kill non-Muslims, Robert Spencer has flirted with alliances with European white nationalist groups, and attended the far-right anti-jihad conference in Cologne.
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Scriblerus
08 November 2009 at 21:43 Didn't he shout "Allah Akbhar" as he launched his offensive? Not conclusive proof of jihadism I'll grant you, but the very words a jihadist would shout on such a occasion...
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JA
08 November 2009 at 22:09 I'm absolutely amazed at some people's comments.
To the comment about why Afghanistan in regards to Bush/Blair going to the ICC - after the vote to invade Afghanistan, Public International Law lawyers concluded that it was illegal to have done so on the grounds of self-defence - the argument that bin Laden et al were able to attack the US on 9/11 because of Afghanistan's protection was not a sufficiently strong legal argument to use. The attacker would have to have been an actual State rather than a terrorist organisation.
And the reason we pathetic Muslims keep coming to the amazing lands of the West is because of a mixture of our own stupidity and incompetence for the last 300 years and because of the decisions Western governments have made since before World War II. Have you lot forgotten colonialism and your countless invasions and interference in Eastern politics from Beirut to Vietnam. If democracy is so amazing why don't more of you lobby your governments to stop supporting corrupt dictators and then may be some of us won't have to keep migrating.
Have people in the West somehow forgotten all the negative aspects of Western history from Christian anti-semitism and the Nazis and the Holocaust to the destruction of natives in the US and Australia etc. So to the person who suggested that Muslims were genocidal to non-Muslims - how dare you!! You don't even know what genocide is; you'd know if you're own people had been killed in their tens of thousands in the 1990s because they were Muslim.
I don't know why people bother anymore; you can't argue against ignorant and stubborn fools. 99% of Muslims don't hate you; they don't want to hurt you - all they want is to be left alone and given the chance to catch up. And our failures have nothing to do with Islam, but rather due to our individual cultures.
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a.m.r.
09 November 2009 at 01:31 Polly Toynbee : "Muslims put a high value on the massacre of infidels - whatever a.m.r thinks [..]"
I was just pointing out that Robert Spencer has allied with Eurpoean race fascists, and that he misleads his readers by making out that all Muslims want to kill or defeat the non-Muslims. This clearly isn't true.
I'm not disputing the real problems of jihadism, or the serious issues with Islam as it is taught in many countries, startting with Saudi Arabia (where the imams are installed by the government).
By the way, Jesus never made any comment about slavery that's recorded, although he came into contact with slaves. Other books in the New Testament mention slaves, but never condemn slavery.
I think it'd be fair to say that it was Christian nations (just demographically speaking) which led the global abolition of the slave trade. Some illegal trafficking in slaves still takes place in some of the states in the Arabian penninsula, including Saudi Arabia again, which only abolished slavery in the 1960's.
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ExplodingBadger
09 November 2009 at 02:47 @Ethan
That Sadam and the Taliban were/are bad does not excuse the invasions of countries which have not threatened your own country. The US government in my view is also evil and the world would be a much better place without it. It doesn't mean I think a full scale invasion of the US would be moral.
You don't want Muslims in your country ? Well I doubt the native Indians wanted you in theirs. Why don't you go back to Europe where you belong ?
@Polly Toynbee
What racist nonsense.
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Leone Caetani
09 November 2009 at 21:13 Dmoloney - Mehdi who tried to conceal and extenuate his own anti-kaffir invective is still trying to block contributors whose deep personal knowledge of Islam and Muslims might lead them to express less than favourable opinions of the 'religion of peace'. (Major Hasan, by the way, had a sticker on his car proclaiming 'Allah is Love!"). What a 'dissident voice' Mehdi is - just like his good friends at Mr Ahmedinejad's 'Press TV', whose views about freedom of thought and speech he shares. But I will try to reach you Mr or Ms Moloney with the information you seek.
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Leone Caetani
09 November 2009 at 21:35 Dmoloney - The figure of 270 million non Muslims (animists, Zoroastrians, Christians, Daoists, Confucianists, agnostics - not just Hindus and Buddhists) deliberately killed by Muslims in accord with Muhammad's teachings since Islam's foundation in the 7th century comes I think from the great pro-Muslim Maxime Rodinson's book LA FASCINATION DE L'ISLAM (Librairie Maspero, Paris, 1980). The Koran and Hadith eulogise the extermination of infidels and Rodinson used the Islamic chroniclers who do nothing to minimise the extent of the various Islamic holocausts as it is a matter of pride for them.
As for the figure of 70 million global victims of Islam that Dmoloney cites - I think he is thinking of the 80 million native Hindus, Buddhists, Sikhs and Jains that Professor KS Lal said in a book in 1973 were slaughtered by the Muslim (Arab and Turkish) invaders of India between the 8th and the 18th centuries. Lal's evidence too was drawn from lip smacking accounts of the carnage by the proud and gloating Muslim chroniclers who were its witnesses (Alberuni, Al-Utbi, Ferishta etc).
So when JA asks how Charles Martel dares bring up the endless war imposed by Islam on the ‘kuffar’ and states that Christians ‘do not know what genocide is’ because thousands of Balkan Muslims were slain by purported Christians in the 1990s, I reply that we certainly do ‘know what genocide is’, as, according to the UN, millions – not thousands – of Christians were being exterminated by Jihad in East Timor, Southern Sudan and West Papua at the same time. And with the full support of the Muslim world.
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Silvestre de Sacy
09 November 2009 at 22:07 JA and Aziz. Because Christ explicitly condemned violence and cruelty there have always been plenty of Christian opponents of Christian acts of imperialism and genocide. Because Muhammad explicitly endorsed genocide, imperialism and enslavement directed at non-Muslims there never has and there never could be Muslim critics of Islamic imperialism, genocide and slavetrading. That is why for he West to withdraw from the Muslim world as aziz wants (and I want too) would not end the war that aziz and the West's other Muslim occupiers are waging on us from within, absent the complete expulsion of Islam and Muslims from our midst (which I also want). As the violence of of people like Major Hasan is motivated by Islam's imperialism and not our own, the West's retreat from imperialism would not affect it.
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Silvestre de Sacy
09 November 2009 at 22:26 ExplodingBadger! You say that Europeans have no right to be in the Americas and should go back to Europe . . . Badger, it's a deal! As long as you and every other Muslim coloniser in Europe (and of course the Americas, where you are even more alien than the Euros) will agree to go home too! . . . Indeed, not only today's Islam-invaded West but almost every single territory today termed 'Muslim' (including Iraq, Palestine and Afghanistan) was originally stolen by force from a non-Muslim people - apart from Arabia of course, and even there Islam was imposed by war. So there are going to have to be an awful lot of Muslim returnees Badge if we apply the theory you have just espoused. But don't worry, Badge, the King of Saudi has room for all of you, and you shan't be able to ruin the lives of us non-Muslims there either. Though I am quite sure you will soon start massacring each other, alas, as in Iraq when you had no more 'kaffirs' to kill.
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kendra
11 November 2009 at 08:44 Here's a breakdown of the numbers massacred by jihad:
http://www.politicalislam.com/tears/pages/tears-of-jihad/
270 million is most likely LOW, not high. Warner has the estimate of hindus at 80 million but it is thought by some to be as high as 120 million. The data on Africa is also thought by some to be too low.
All the apologists on here seem to want to ignore the violent aspects of Islam-- and, I understand since of course we all would prefer to ignore it. I'd prefer Muslims themselves would ignore it! But, unfortunately, too many don't ignore it and even if the estimate of what you call "radicals" is 10%. . . that's 10% of 1.57 BILLION people. My math's bad but what is this, then? 157 million? That's half the population of the U.S. . . that isn't a number to ignore. These folks aren't stupid, they aren't living in a cave. well, some are living in caves, but they aren't stupid. They are devout.
Major Hasan did exactly what Mohammad and Allah mandated. Mohammad ordered all Muslims to do jihad--either by warfare, by propaganda (um, hello? author of this piece?), by money, etc. Major Hasan may have been doing jihad with propaganda or the pen, but he switched to violent warfare and hoped to go to heaven to get his 72 virgins and intercession for 70 of his relatives.
