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what is required is to massively cut military spending, and switch it to other, civilian & productive spending.

writeon, be sure of one thing, the bailout money will go straight out of the US and into safer economies. As I have said all along, the whole thing was designed, the question is, "where is it taking us"?

1929-1939: 10 years to WW2. This time, it will much faster as Joe Biden has carelessly warned. The US military is at its peak right now, this won`t be the case in 5 years. The US has its largest military force on standby in the Gulf and this force is over and above the two land theaters. Its also been on location for two years.....WAITING TO GO!!

what we are seeing, is the consequences of this long-term plan - the destruction of the UK & US national economies (the UK is further along), in order to destroy the social and political aspirations of the majority of Britons.

now, again, i am aware of how this sounds, and who wants to believe that those in power, those *we elected* in some cases to power, may not have what most of us would consider our best interests at heart? In fact, most of them believe they do, that democracy in a proper sense is 'harmful', and they are behaving like 'proper leaders and Statesmen', and that this IS all for our long-term benefit, even if it costs a great deal of hardship for the majority.

needs no tin-foil helm, only an appreciation of the memes that operate at different levels of Britain's society.

everything that is happening now in the West, already happened recently to other 'neo-liberalised' economies, such as Argentina, along with such events as the 'pacific-rim crash'.

lets lok at the facts, and not the hype - the UK and US have both had their manufacturing capability exported, and destroyed. The service industries are reliant upon the amount of internal 'trade' - people do not go abroad for haircuts. Food, Energy and Building are all virtually entirely in the controlling hands of the multi-nats - who immediately move the profits made from British Workers out of the national economy.

Education and Health are following, slowly but surely, along with Prisons, who are already being constructed and run by US-based multi-nats. (and not given new UK contracts based upon quality of provision, that's for damned sure.).

so how much of the British Economy is actually run by, and for the benefit of, the British Citizenry?

the answer is damned little, and even that little is generally in a economic hierarchy dependant upon multi-nats at some point.

so how long will this recession last, and how deep will it be?

that is unanswerable, and with good reason - the end of this 'recession' will only come about like all recessions end - when real wages and incomes rise again, allowing the internal market to start its work. But WHY, when the very same owners cold-heartedly watched millions across South America and Asia, will those 'owners' care enough about us normal Britons to decrease their own profiteering, their own power hunger and financial greed, in order to 'give' enough back for the economy to rise again? Especially when they are part of the system that created this mess in the first place, due to their beliefs about Elite control and rule?

it would be nice to think that some of them did not understand what was happening, and they will change course and increase worker ownership, share-schemes, increase wages and try to build sustainable local industries and communities. It would be nice, but i'm not holding my breath.

no, IMHO the recession will end when the British Worker decides they no longer need 'British Employers', and take direct control of factories they work in, and build networks of similar cooperatives in order to work and produce.

http://www.newstatesman.com/south-america/2007/08/argentina-workers-move...

to put in the absolute baldest terms, what we Briton's need is to decolonialise OURSELVES, we are in virtually all respects now a dominion Nation, ruled and owned by foreigners or our own grotesque so-called Elites, it is time for Gandhi's lessons for India to be pulled out, dusted off, and looked at carefully.

there is one alternative - 1984, with our vaguely educated young sent off to die and murder in their millions, for ends as vague as "Empire", and "they hate us for our freedoms".

"Imagine a Boot stamping down on a human face forever..."

Never More.

Martin,

I believe there is a lot of evidence that we are heading for a really deep and long recession, rivaling the Great Depression. I don't say this because I'm looking forward to it. I think most pundits, politicians, journalist and mainstream economists are substantially underestimating the size and consequences of the current 'credit crunch' or 'recession'. I think it's a slump of gigantic proportions and a Depression, that's just around the corner. If we escape a second Great Depression, it'll be by luck more than anything our political leaders are doing.

In a number of ways we are actually far more vulnerable to the effects of a deep recession than we were in the 1930's. This sounds very radical and not overly optimistic, but that doesn't make it untrue.

James Galbaith, son of J.K. Galbraith, was recently asked how many, out of the 15,000 economists at work in the United States, had seen the crisis coming. He replied that he thought about 15 of them had sent out warnings, only nobody was listening!

What this means is that we really don't have very many people in positions of power that really understand what's happening to the world's economy, let alone have ideas about how to stop the decline or even get us out of the hole we are falling into!

The economists we have are mostly the high-priest of Capitalism and they have faith disguised as science, wrapped in ideology. They believe that we'll bounce back and it'll be business as usual, only we are talking about the future and we cannot know what will happen. We could be entering a permanent 'recession' with the same people in charge that got us into this mess in the first place.

At the heart of the problems we face, simply put, is this massive, debt, blackhole-star, that's bigger than the entire planet's GDP. It's out of control and is sucking everything inside. It's so big it will probably swallow a quarter or perhaps as much as third of the entire US economy and it won't come back anytime soon.

Just what kind of "bust" is this one? I recall the 1970's one all too well, and the consequences of the 1930's when my parents migrated and I travelled in the removals van. This one is not the same for a variety of reasons. History has seen many and various "busts", and it is difficult to sort out which may be the most comparable in form. That of the 1820's is tempting when Wellington remarked that we days away from a return to barter. My personal favourite is that of 1772, which has the right mix of elements. But I think that the one of 1847 could be nearer the mark in terms of its scope and effects. If so, this is one to be feared. And nobody is going to strike gold in the next few years to relieve it. The key aspect of the current crisis is that like many of the past, there are few, if any, people who can fully understand the complexities of what is going on in real time. And fewer who can really do something about it. When the gaps start appearing on the supermarket shelves for familiar goods and your favourite choices, you will really know that the blancmange has hit the fan.

Seriously, I think the whole United States’ recession thing has somehow affected everyone. It’s ridiculous to think that payday loans are responsible for the economic mess in America. Apparently, economists have marked December 2007 the “official” beginning of our current recession. The National Bureau of Economic Research (NBER) identifies top activity at this point, and the U.S economy has been deteriorating since then. The NBER describes recession as “a significant decline in economic activity spread across the economy, lasting more than a few months, normally visible in production, employment, real income, and other indicators.” It seems other organizations are in the same boat. Backed by the government, academics and the private sector, it’s as close to official as possible. These conclusions are based upon unemployment, incomes, industrial output and sales data. The highest point in employment and incomes was marked that December. In January, industrial output peaked and five months later, in the month of June, sales peaked. Democrats claimed this wasn’t a shock and called for an economic stimulus package. “The announcement simply makes official what we have long known: with rising costs of living, rising unemployment, record foreclosures and depleting savings, we must do more to help families make ends meet,” says Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid. So, this would mean that the proposal to ban payday loans is not a good plan. Reid highlighted that a recovery package must create more jobs, cut middle class taxes and instill confidence in the market and the people. Payday loans, and any other similar form of lending, have proven once again the magnitude of their importance in our economy. Click here for more information about http://personalmoneystore.com/moneyblog/what-are-payday-loans-2/, click the link.

Carl,

Please don't take this the wrong way. It isn't meant as a criticism of you personally. I've become used to your 'style' over time.

I used to own a house in London. I even used to live there. I bought the place on sort of whim, because I liked the staircase and the front room which seemed really fancy and cool to work in.

Imagine my surprise, some weeks later, when down at the bottom of the garden, behind a huge wall of jungle-like vegetation I discovered a shed and a guy who looked remarkably like a garden gnome living in it!

I couldn't figure out if he was sixty, ninety or a hundred and ninety and I didn't ask him. Anyway he talked a lot like you, but with a big dollop of William Blake thrown in for good measure. At first I thought he was totally barmy, but harmless enough. Then when I got bored I'd take him a cup of tea and some cake and off he'd go. I learnt to read his code and slowly I realized that buried amongst the avalanch of words there were insights and an acute mind, at least some the time, like the sun peeping out from behind the clouds.

I never got to know his name and my girls were not keen on going down to the bottom of the garden, anyway it was virtually impossible to get through the wall of vegetation and bushes. One day I went down with the tea and some fruit cake. It was the first warm spring morning, and the gnome was gone and he never returned.

Osbourne is set on self destruction by suggesting there could be a run on the pound. But the real hidden story is, WHY IS THE DOLLAR SO STRONG?

This is because of the PPT "Plunge Protection Team". I won`t go into detail, but I recommend that you google away. Mr Bush likes the FREE MARKET!lol

There is no such thing as a free market. Just remember, both Labour and the Tories have resisted European employment protection laws. British workers are no better off than farmed animals.

If Osbourn isn`t careful, he`ll be found dead in the woods, or car crashed in some tunnel....although I don`t know of a British tunnel called "Bridge of Souls".LOL