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17 comments from readers

jan2008
10 June 2008 at 12:43

Thanks for posting this - it's a very interesting debate, and anyone who compares UK and US coverage of the conflict will not be surprised by Prosor's assessment. A very useful website to contrast different points of views and coverage from different countries is FocusOnMideast.com.

Dot.Hakers
10 June 2008 at 13:48

In order to read your "recent piece on Israel" one needs to have an invitation to do so...

Martin Bright
10 June 2008 at 14:47

Dot.Hakers, I don't really know what you mean. Just click on the link

knave
10 June 2008 at 18:36

Martin the link doesn't work.

unseen
10 June 2008 at 23:39

Serosch - What is the "IJC"?

Serosch
11 June 2008 at 12:56

Unseen - Illegal Jewish Colony (IJC)

Mr Bright has been writing Anti-Muslim comments for some time, yet the general public are not eben allowed to tell the truth about Jewish actions against Palestinians. Every post highlighting Jewish crimes is being removed by Mr Bright.

Afrasiab
11 June 2008 at 13:01

Serosch - the censorship of anything highlighting crimes commitied by the Jewish state are now aproaching the levels in the USA.

It will not be long before the mainstream media simply stop reporting on the plight of the Palestinians, and everything will about the suffering of the Jewish people.

redharry
11 June 2008 at 22:08

From Martin's arms dealer funded sponsor BICOM

http://www.bicom.org.uk/background/biographies/israeli-polit...

'He holds the rank of Major (Reserve) in the Israeli Defense Forces, Artillery Division, and is a graduate of the IDF Batallion Commanders course.'

Another one of your comrades Martin?

taghioff.info
12 June 2008 at 03:00

I had a very interesting and bruising experience at SOAS on the Israel issue. SOAS is the most left-wing and most pro-Palestinian student's union in the country, something I am proud of, but with some reservations.

There was a major dispute between the Jewish and Palestinian society. Being half central Asian Jewish and a lefty, I got involved, which in some ways I regeret. What I learnt was this:

Both sides of this conflict will attack those who attempt a middle ground. I tried to put through a freedom of speech clause at the Student's Union to make it compulsary for people who advocate policies of violence against a people, defined in terms of policies that are likely to reduce the life expectancy of that people, to have to explain themselves, or face banning in public fora.

In other words I wanted discussion of issues of oppression and violence to not to be glossed over. This was aimed at state violence, but ended up being seen as a move to supress radical calls for violence on the other side, particularly when I criticised an article that seemed to advocate violence.

So I was attacked by the left-wing and the Palestinians, as well as being treated with some suspicion by the right-wing Jews.

But there was bad behavior all round, Gavin Gross was a rather right-wing American Jew who did a lot to stir up the trouble at SOAS, he was very aggressive and controversial.

He had journalistic contacts like Melanie Phillips, and she was rolled in to say how anti-semitic SOAS was, which was a charge that was solidly slapped down, which she of course did not report. I am not sure this is really a "Zionist Conspiracy" but the guy came in with an agenda, and used his contacts well to try and score points in a very confrontational way.

And what lessons did I draw from all this? Well I still believe that the Palestinians are getting short shrift: A lot more of them die than Israelis (five times more) in the clashes, and their life expectancy is 20 years or so lower than the average Israeli.

But the other lesson is that conflicts make idiots of us all, and that taking sides is part of that idiocy, and leads nowhere. So yes, Martin and Cohen are right in a way, their are excesses on the left, but that does not make the right right. This kind of tit-for-tat, eye for an eye thinking leads to global blindness, not to a vision of the future.

taghioff.info
12 June 2008 at 04:00

Mea Culpa:

The life expectancy difference between Israel and the Occupied territories is around six years - according to UNICEF and WHO numbers:

Palestine:

http://www.unicef.org/infobycountry/oPt_statistics.html

Israel:

http://www.euro.who.int/eprise/main/WHO/Progs/CHHISR/burden/...

Still, six years is a very significant difference in what was supposed to be the same country - and perhaps explains why the Palestinians want their own state.

taghioff.info
12 June 2008 at 04:49

Interestingly there is an advert from War on Want on this site.

It is talking about the rise in fuel prices, and food prices, saying times are tough in the UK, but what about in Gaza. The punchline is that 80% of people in Gaza are in poverty, which is as bad as sub-saharan Africa:

http://www.waronwant.org/?lid=16031

Which goes to show things are bad in Israel. But why do we need to sell the idea of poverty via Gaza? There are a lot more people in Sub-Saharan Africa, and in India, the proportion of people below the international threshold of being able to buy 2400 calories a day is 70%,which is a lot more people. And this is the so-called big capitalist - democratic success story.

So why Gaza? Why Israel?

Well, what do rich people care about? Hmm, well oil and christianity seems up there in the list. Small farmers, starvation and endemic poverty are much less interesting topics, and we follow that agenda, on both the left and the right.

And why is that? Because we have no meaningful democracy on the global level, so the concerns of the poor majority just don't get a look in.

Martin Bright
12 June 2008 at 11:17

Just to clarfy. I have not removed a single comment from this site. That is not my job. Serosch is free to continue to make is unfounded and inaccurate claims till the cows come home.

On the other hand, the editor of newstatesman.com reserves the right to remove comments.

Serosch
13 June 2008 at 09:00

Bright - Serosch is free to continue to make is unfounded and inaccurate claims till the cows come home.-

Are you seriously saying that Palestinian schools have not been destroyed by the armed wing of the IJC.

Are you seriously saying that Palestinian students are not prohibited from further education by the IJC.

Are you seriously saying that the leadership of the IJC did not state that it wanted the Balkanisation of Iraq.

The people are sick of the hypocrisy practiced by your sort.

Serosch
13 June 2008 at 09:03

Also Bright have you not heard about the dozens of Palestinian children that have been killed by IJC snipers.

Southfork
15 June 2008 at 18:16

I just cant get my head round this unbelievable blindness that seems to think that removing Israel will solve all Palestinian and Arab problems. Thank goodness there is a scapegoat otherwise even more Muslims would be killed by more Muslims.

Your Philos should look at the HAARETZ web site to see honest open and critical exchanges within Israeli society itself. Might change a few minds. Of course Israeli society is sick. Tell me one that isn't. But some sick people at least reconize they are!!

Serosch
17 June 2008 at 08:44

Southfork, it isn't about solving the Palestinian and Arab problems it is about JUSTICE for the Palestinians.

Claddach
19 June 2008 at 08:23

Serosch, you appear to be the only poster who truly understands how In 1948, the Palestinian state collapsed in the Middle East, leading to a complete dissolution of the Palestinian people in all areas of life. Respect for the holy, the inheritance of centuries, vanished. People did not want to accept that there was a country named Palestine. The rootless spirit, the rootless god of an abstract Internationale ruined the source from which the Palestinian people had always taken its strength in time of need. These people knows that its misery was caused by a foreign people inhabiting Israel, above all from those who were the lackeys of the Zionists. Peace today will happen because all of the Arab people recognize the cause of the Palestinian misfortune. The Palestinians once again have leaders in the freedom fighters of Hamas.