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Why do men think it's ok to get their "Nuts" out in public?

To read a lads' mag in public is to declare that women's bodies are public property.

Nuts magazine covers.
A selection of Nuts magazine covers.

I don't know much about the man who sat two seats along from me on the flight home from Gatwick last night, but he made me deeply uneasy. I know that he's a Rangers fan, and that he's on Twitter, although I don't know his username, and that he doesn't see women as equals in society. How do I know the third fact? Because he spent a large part of the hour long flight reading, although that's probably the wrong word, the lads' magazine Nuts. This is not the first time that's happened recently. On a train journey to London in June, the guy in front of me was reading an actual proper porn magazine which made me feel really icky indeed.

Since when did it become socially acceptable to publicly ogle photos of half naked seductively posed women? The equivalent would be me sitting there openly looking at pictures of men's naked backsides - or worse. But we never see that. The ogling is all very one-sided. It's only women's bodies which are public property. To all the men reading this, how would you like it if you were in that position? I was travelling with a male friend who was equally disgusted with the display.

If men (I could say people, but who are we trying to kid here?) want to look at this stuff, then there's very little I can do to stop them, but for heavens' sake, can they not do it in the privacy of their own homes? When men ostentatiously read stuff like this in public, it's like they're making a huge statement that they see women as simply being there as window dressing, as decoration, as pleasure enhancers rather than their equals. They clearly feel that they have a right to own all the public space. I felt it was so rude of him and it made me feel uncomfortable. Now, I don't have the right to be protected from being offended, and nor am I asking for it, but I think I have every right to express my displeasure at such insensitive and crude behaviour. I am kicking myself today for not saying something to him at the time. This post will have to do. I'd love it if he read it and responded - I'd really like to know why he thought it was ok. On a plane, when you're all crammed in like sardines, what you look at, you share with the rest of your row whether they like it or not. Surely some sensitivity is required.

I must admit my friend and I had a discreet giggle and raised a few eyebrows between ourselves about the spectacle that was going on beside us.We mostly spent the flight chatting quietly. We were both incredulous, though, when to add insult to injury, this man gave a deep sigh and put on his headphones as though we were disturbing him.

It's good that we have become more relaxed about some of the things we do in public - I mean, when my husband was a little boy in the 50s, it was frowned upon to eat in the street. However, I think that casual browsing of pornography lite is going too far. Do you agree?

Caron Lindsay is a Lib Dem activist and blogger. This post originally appeared on her blog here. You can find her on Twitter as @caronmlindsay

40 comments

SergioP's picture

The implicit assumption is that sexual desire is bad. Or it that 'a sidelong glance of sexual desire' is bad?
Does that mean it is better to be straight rather than sidelong?
I like looking at page 3 because I sexually desire them? I am not sure what 'sly and malicious intent' adds to the
definition of 'leer'. Does that mean that if you sexually desire then you have malicious intent?
Obviously the malicious intent is rape. If you sexually desire page 3 then you desire also to rape them.
Or is it that looking at naked women is a form of rape? Rape is non consensual sex and penetration by a p@nis.
So by looking at page 3 we are non consensually putting our p@nises into a picture. Pardon?
Maybe page 3 leads to rape. You get randy and then rape any old woman in easy reach.
Maybe page 3 leads to an increase in domestic violence (the Lynne Featherstone theory).
The man beats up the woman because she doen't like him looking at other women?

SergioP's picture

A.A. Gill was right.
The media seem to have the story but not show the evidence.
The newstatesman seems to have the ba*** to actually show the covers of Nuts magazine. Amazing.
Newsnight on a debate on Page 3 deftly didn't show any t*ts whatsoever.
If you don't include Harriet Harman and Neil Wallis as t*ts.
What we actually got was close-ups of clothed cr*tches.

The Harman mantra is page 3 is only there for men to 'leer' at women's b**bs.

'To look with a sidelong glance, indicative especially of sexual desire or sly and malicious intent.'

Wes Smith's picture

Gender-essentialist, biology-is-destiny, excusing bullcrap. Grow up.

Daniel C. Thompson's picture

P.S. I'd appreciate you responding to my point, rather than just labelling it. That would be proof of the maturity you seem to want to exude.

Daniel C. Thompson's picture

Grow up yourself.

I'm sick of women telling me it's not okay to be attracted to them, yet using that attraction for their own ends. You can't have it all.

I'm sick of being derided because of my gender, of media stories about how horrible men are.

Female sexuality is beautiful and natural, men are old pigs. That's the line.

I hope you feel good about your sons growing up in such a world.

Daniel C. Thompson's picture

I'd like you and like-mided pundits to re-wire me and my fellow straight men, because evidently, mother nature has done a crap job. Thank you.

Davey Jones's picture

Real liberals will fight this oppressive nonsense. She would have to ban all of those women's magazines that have pictures of semi-naked men in too (most of them). What about Vogue, Cosmopolitan, etc? I'd at least have a modicum of respect if you fought women's mags simultaneously, but it's clear from this attack that Caron is sexist, discriminatory and wants to punish the world because she couldn't get it together to ask a guy to move a magazine out of her face.

Ffi's picture

Liberal Democrat politics aside, I agree completely with this piece. And, by the way, Sam Gisoad, the idea that you can compare Nuts magazine to a woman reading 50 Shades of Grey is ridiculous: a euphemistic arty picture on the cover of an erotic novel may hint at the sexual content inside but it is not the same as page upon page of pictures of naked women. The fact is that sex object culture does indeed make women feel deeply uncomfortable and offended. I too have sat on a morning commute next to a man 'reading' a women's magazine and not had the courage to say something about how unhappy the experience made me.

Crucially, this isn't about censorship or freedom of speech- Caron is not suggesting that this man should not be allowed to enjoy Nuts magazine, but that there should be some sensitivity to the idea that other people may find it offensive and it probably best done in his own home. Being constantly bombarded by images of women as sexual objects is terrible for the self-esteem of normal women in society. It's not just about being forced to compare your body to that of a photoshopped 'babe' who conforms to a heteronormative oppressive idea of female beauty, it's about having to go about your day being constantly reminded that many people view you as the sum total of your body parts and nothing more.

Next time this happens to me, I hope I will have the courage to challenge this type of behaviour.

andyg's picture

FFI, "images of women as sexual objects is terrible for the self-esteem of normal women in society". The women in, and from British society that I see both here and abroad seem to some- how present themselves as sexual objects, or is it this what's now referred to as fashion?
Recently while on holiday abroad I was ashamed to admit that I was from England.

jankaas's picture

"Crucially, this isn't about censorship or freedom of speech- Caron is not suggesting that this man should not be allowed to enjoy Nuts magazine, but that there should be some sensitivity to the idea that other people may find it offensive and it probably best done in his own home."

in other words; self-censorship.

not sure if the average Nuts reader is capable of this.

"Being constantly bombarded by images of women as sexual objects is terrible for the self-esteem of normal women in society. "
"bombarded". really..?
perhaps you would be so kind and give a few examples of this bombardment you have to cope with day in day out?

Sam Gisoad's picture

"And, by the way, Sam Gisoad, the idea that you can compare Nuts magazine to a woman reading 50 Shades of Grey is ridiculous"

Both are attempts at erotica. Unless you are literally looking over someone's shoulder at their magazine - in which case I put it to you that you are complicit in your own discomfort - the worst you can see of someone else reading Nuts is the picture on the cover. And whilst I have yet to have the pleasure of reading FSOG - having read an extract I think it's one I'll defer indefinitely - I don't get the impression that the male protagonist is *that* rounded a character. More a hideously rich man with a massive organ. Which doesn't sound like objectification to me, oh no.

" I too have sat on a morning commute next to a man 'reading' a women's magazine and not had the courage to say something about how unhappy the experience made me."

I assume you don't mean a "women's magazine" in the Cosmo vein but one full of semi-clad women. And I do appreciate that it might have been an uncomfortable situation. But tell me, at what point did you imagine that this was his problem rather than yours?

Sam Gisoad's picture

I know lots of people have already made a similar point but:
In the left hand column: "To read a lads' mag in public is to declare that women's bodies are public property." In the right hand column: "Laurie Penny: In Defence of 50 Shades of Grey".

If I relied on the New Statesman for moral guidance my moral compass would be proper f****d.

"The equivalent would be me sitting there openly looking at pictures of men's naked backsides - or worse. "

Go ahead. No really, go right ahead. I can honestly say I don't know a single man who would care. Or is this the classic "I don't want to, so you mustn't?" It is, isn't it?

"If men...want to look at this stuff, then there's very little I can do to stop them"

..."but there should be." Okay, I inferred that bit. Just so I know, are you okay with me reading my copy of 120 Days of Sodom on the train? Where's the spectrum here? If we run a line from, say, Collette to, say, Escort (through Anais Nin, Henry Miller, De Sade, Pauline Reage, 50 Shades, GQ, Maxim, FHM, Nuts, Zoo, Bizarre) where does it suddenly become unacceptable? Or, more to the point, at which point do we have to stop lest we make a Liberal Democrat feel "uncomfortable"?

I've never wanted to read Nuts myself - the women look plastic and the articles are barely literate, but by god I do now.

sam_ryder's picture

If the Lib Dems are so green, what are you doing taking an internal flight?

PinkiePie's picture

You honestly think that if a man looks at pictures of semi-naked women who voluntarily posed for such pictures and got paid a healthy sum to do so, automatically regards them all as second class citizens? You really are unbelievably delusional.
There are also plenty of publications aimed at women that DO have pictures of semi-naked men adorning their pages, I think it's More that has a 'Torso of the Week' feature, I believe that is where Rav, the guy from crimewatch, got his break. Then you get the likes of cosmo etc and guess what? No men are offended by women looking at pictures of incredibly well built guys who don't reflect what the average mans body looks like, funny that isn't it.

Mr Cynical's picture

'I felt it was so rude of him and it made me feel uncomfortable'

Let's explore. Why did you feel 'uncomfortable'? From 1-10, 10 being the most uncomfortable, what number would you give your uncomfortableness?

Do you fear being raped by a Nuts welding maniac? Was his large and violent penis jumping out of his unzipped jeans? Do stds have a new form of transmission? Occular migration by photon transmission is a seriously new epidemic.

Your delusions are real. Your conclusions are not.

Mao's picture

I might have a look of one in the supermarket.

Newmaria's picture

What if you had your children with you .

andyg's picture

I suppose you would have to tell your children that the Nuts magazine is not as violent as the Tom and Jerry magazine that they are reading.

jankaas's picture

and the punchline is...?

McMac's picture

Don't ever visit the national gallery. Appalling.

andyg's picture

I think that his sigh said it all. Maybe you should have a go at the women who show off their bodies for money. Not a word of condemnation for this career, and if they were to stop stripping off what then? It appears to me from reading your page that it is you who has the problem. You sit there on trains and aircraft making judgements of others who are minding their own business. What's up with you woman, get a life and look in the mirror. What you will see is an adult who is childish, dull, and boring.
For goodness sake grow up.

Nils Boray's picture

Since when did it become socially acceptable to publicly ogle photos of half naked seductively posed women?

Well clearly it never did, but really if he's allowed to buy it in a newsagents he should be permitted to read it in public. Sure he looks a plonker, sure it will offend people, and sure you're allowed to tell him you don't like it. He ain't breaking no laws though.

The only time I've ever read Nuts - in public or otherwise - was when I was given a free copy at Euston Station. It had a very distasteful piece about a woman who'd had a tumour that weighed about three stones removed from her bum, and seemed to be parading that as entertainment. I quickly put the magazine into the receptacle reserved for the Metro and the Evening Standard (aka the floor) - I needn't have worried about what I looked like reading it - since most other people on the train had one as well (briefly).

It really beats me how they manage to sell any of these magazines. Or indeed the women's mags either - which despite not being quite so adorned with scantily clad bodies of either gender, still manage to be a bit tacky. It is a bit weird sitting next to a woman in her 50s reading "20 ways to knit a better orgasm" - but each to their own I guess.

McMac's picture

Unlike most of the idiots here I support you completely. I recently asked a man, who was reading a gay magazine with pictures of half naked men on show, to stop what he was doing.

It's only when we can stop this sort of behavior that we'll have a society worth living in.

Davey Jones's picture

So, society isn't worth living in now? Why are you still here? When people do as I say, life will be worth living...utterly deluded.

NorthBrit's picture

The last three women who sat next to me on flights were all reading 50 Shades of Gray.

On a plane, when you're all crammed in like sardines, what you look at, you share with the rest of your row whether they like it or not. Surely some sensitivity is required.

I would have thought someone best known for making political capital about coffins in Wootton Bassett and making questionable assertions about the SNP's links to the English democrats would be more relaxed about filth.

Your Name Here's picture

Good grief, get over yourself. As you said, you don't have a right not to be offended (notwithstanding the dangerous provisions found in the Malicious Communications Act 1988 and Communications Act 2003). This man has a right to look at prurient content if he wants, just as you have a right to rehash old arguments about male privilege and publish them in the New Statesman. If you want to spend your time looking at naked pictures of men, be my guest.

What constitutes acceptable behaviour in a shared space is difficult to judge and changes over time. We can agree that it would be more pleasant if men didn't read Nuts in such circumstances, but you demanding they don't is much more dangerous. Maybe Nuts man was offended by the woman in front reading Fifty Shades of Grey. Maybe he was offended by the man opposite who donned his tefillin and started to pray. And he was clearly offended by the content or fact of your conversation. Should he have asked them / you to stop too?

The right to free speech is not absolute (cf. Justice Holmes' often-out-of-context quotation on shouting fire in a crowded theatre), but there are good reasons for valuing it significantly more highly than you appear to do. The path you seem to advocate leads to mass surveillance, censorship and fear (all in the name of protecting the children from terrorists).

Dominic Rae's picture

A very good response

jankaas's picture

"there's very little I can do to stop them"

since that person wasn't doing anything illegal that is how it should be.

Caron's picture

you seem to have missed the next phrase, nor should there be. I just think that we should be a bit more respectful & considerate about what we do in public.

andyg's picture

Caron, could you just explain what you mean when you write "more respectful & considerate"?

Pavlova's picture

Oh I don't know. Not looking at porn in public? There was a time when it was considered rude to swear, pick your nose, fart and masturbate in front of other people. It's called being polite.

jankaas's picture

or, this is small beer to get one's knickers in a twist over.
unless this man was showing age restricted material to children your claim that offence was caused is too subjective to have meaning in a secular liberal society.

hugh markey's picture

As there are gay porn mags for the male why can't women read these ready-made magazines in public.
Should they do so suspect an officer of the law would make a very prompt appearance.

sven the troll's picture

Men like looking at pictures of naked women. All heterosexual men. I mean young attractive naked women. If men did not like looking at naked women, the human race would have died out some time ago. Get a life.

Archie Sample's picture

If you're trying to reproduce by looking at pictures, you're doing it wrong. Actually, you're not doing it at all...

Pavlova's picture

Oh well if they like it, then there's nothing more to say.

biondino's picture

If he were reading Nuts at home, then you'd never know how evil he was. At least he's sending out explicit "I'm a hateful cock" signs in public, so right-thinking people can avoid him and, if forced to communicate with him, safely ignore anything he has to say.

ThomasJ's picture

The way I see it, this magazine's not for me but I don't have a problem with people reading it in public, and I don't think just because someone is it means they don't view women as equal (although in many cases that's probably how it is). My feeling is, why aren't there women's equivalents of these magazines?

Des Demona's picture

I had a very similar situation. I was on a plane and some woman sat next to me was reading a copy of the Lib Dem election manifesto. It made me deeply uncomfortable. The equivalent would be me sitting there openly looking at pictures of Nick Clegg's naked backsides - or worse.
If Lib-Dems (I could say people, but who are we trying to kid here?) want to look at this stuff, then there's very little I can do to stop them, but for heavens' sake, can they not do it in the privacy of their own homes? When Lib Dems ostentatiously read stuff like this in public, it's like they're making a huge statement that they see voters simply being there as window dressing, as decoration, as guillable idiots rather than their equals. I'd really like to know why she thought it was ok. On a plane, when you're all crammed in like sardines, what you look at, you share with the rest of your row whether they like it or not. Surely some sensitivity is required.

Barrie J's picture

I was Ok with the general direction this piece was going until I saw that the author is a Lib Dem activist.
Considering the attacks on the poor and the disabled under a coalition of 'her' Party and the Tories, I think any sense of outrage she feels about men looking at naked/near naked women should be immediately redirected at her heroes in Westminster.
Once she has purged her Party of the self-serving Tory neo-cons with which it seems to be peopled, she will have earned the support and trust of the many who might support her feminist views.
Judging by her Party's current popularity I might humbly suggest she gets 'more active'.
I don't buy lad's mags and I'm certainly never going to vote Lib Dem ever again in my lifetime.

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