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My appearance on Channel 4 News, debating David Lammy's comments about parental failure and the riot
See what I mean Mr D. He hasn't got a bleeding clue. Never mind he's stolen the loaf though. Earl Grey, aaaaahhhhhhh I think not.
F*cking lefties and liberals interfering in peoples lives, don't you just love it? My ex has a really difficult wee boy and she loves him to bits but sometimes the only thing he responds too is a smack.Idiots like laurie would probably have her locked up.Blindingly obvious laurie does not have kids.
So what's you tipple angela? I'll get them in.
Oh, and David lammy is a buffoon but LP makes him look like an elightened intellectual. Utterly embarrassing performance. The hair was standing up on my neck watching this and listening to this extremist out of proportion nonsense from LP.I can never take anything she says seriously ever again.
It appears some arse has been making some vile violent threats to LP online
I do hope they live in the uk and LP can get this person arrested. Besides the courts, making someone famous for threatening women from the safety of a keyboard would be sweet revenge.
Go get him LP.
"You're up early Spud!"
Yep..I'm always up early Divine...you know that...some of us have gotta 'secure by hand or brain the full fruits of our industry'
and if you've gotta google the quote...erm..yep...you REALLY know the score folks!
"I can answer this. They are probably too afraid of sustained abuse and intrusion into their private lives. Who in their right mind would set themselves up for such an ordeal?"
erm..me...cos I'm not a spineless shitehawk? And if she's really "too afraid of sustained abuse and intrusion into their private lives"...she's got a fuckin funny way of showing it.
My problem is I've got a sustained history of alcohol abuse, drug use, 'philandering' and a 25 year old record of activities of a dubious legal nature...other than that...sign me up...I',m a Socialist legend down several of my locls, on various picket lines-where I didn't actually notice any student radicals, bullshitting media wannabes or anarchists with flowers in their hair-but most importantly-in my fuckin head.
"It is beneficial to be aware of such possibilities, but that doesn't require it being shouted at a person."
Ah yes...because of course self-obsessed, ruthlessly ambitious creatures such as MS Penny respond so well to subtle hints...get real 'Delete'. You're not stupid mate, you know that; I know that...you're defending her for the sake of a row. What do you actually think of her?
You were talking the other day about the demeaning effect of online commenting...please accept a word of advice...it only remains remotely 'honourable' if you make your own case...and only your own case at all times...don't go defending the indefensible for the sake of an 'academic' point of order...or someone who has their moments but is gonna fly off on a prissy fucked-up tangent at a moment's notice.
"And what about the men I 'beat up' online?"
A. You don't beat men up online, that's the point, you tend to think that abuse is beating up it isn't it just makes you appear foolish when I think that you have a lot to offer.
"...am I just an all-round online thug?"
A. You said it! oh and a big prick, again you said it!
"you're right andy,"
A. Told you so.
"you're not a diamond"
A. I know.
"...diamonds can be bought and sold;"
Yes, just like some people.
"you're fuckin priceless."
A. Thanks. Manners cost nothing.
A. Some find it very difficult to converse with the opposite sex. Mr D can help you out here. He knows how to speak to a lady.
"PS...I had a go at Mehdi Hasan this afternoon."
"...do I assume I'm a racist and Islamophobe too?"
A. To assume will only go to make an ass of both 'u' and me.As for weather you are "racist" is what you define by the word. Would this apply if Mehdi was Australian, American, Swedish, or are you referring to something else?
A. As above.
"correct me if I'm wrong."
A. I already have.
"..that you consider yourself 'of the left'."
A. I do not consider, I know. But what the left represents know is so far removed from what I believe. I hate to say but I agree with what you wrote above regarding the ideology of those that are meant to represent the poor and working class. Recently Paddy Ashdown has been more left than many in the Labour party.
"You are, in microcosm, everything that's gone wrong with it.
A. I require an explanation here, how am I responsible for the failures of Brown, Blair etc.
I have never declared war on the innocent, in fact post posts will bail me out on that one. You also fail to answer the statement that you wrote earlier regarding me writing as someone else. I asked you to evidence this yet you side tracked the question.
A. If you say so.Sticks and stones may break my bones but whips and chains........excite me. Sorry not to have got back to you sooner but I was with the real men supping the pints last night and munching the Kebab when I returned home.
"Ever broken the skin or bruised?"
you're changing the subject, again. i have stated several times that i know the difference between a smack and a beating. you don't, your problem, not mine.
then again you don't listen to me at all, so your input is misdirected. from your experience;
"But its magic and calms them down immediately as they start to think through carefully about their next move - I given them praise when they win which turns tantrums into a fun game."
to which i can only repeat what i wrote to you yesterday. i said; if you reckon that some soothing words are effective then, with respect, you've never had to deal with a proper hysterical-snot-and-tears-tantrum. or maybe you think that a parent can only harm a child physically, and that there is zero mental suffering inflicted by forcing a 2 year old to 'work through their issues'? i think the reverse is true, based on experience, and crucially, caring deeply about my children.
"The smacking ban came into effect in 2005."
Do you think anybody on here taking issue with Laurie Penny is doing so because they agree with Lammy and his 'thesis'?...he's a fuckin tool.
They're taking issue with Laurie Penny and the style of her performance. She's occupying a regular position on these spots which should be going to someone who's got a real Left-wing pedigree, is politically and economically literate and doesn't think childish stunts represent a refreshing new style of dissent.
...and do you think anybody actually gives a flying fuck about these 'bans' or lets them affect their behaviour...outside of middle-class locales with a self-regarding 'progressive' image? For instance, I have a choice of 4 pubs within a 5 minute walk of my front door where I can smoke to my hearts content. Personally, I'd love to use one of those electric cigarettes but I lack the 'moral courage'...I'd be a laughing stock. The last person to complain got barred.
Here's a reminder of the former minister for Higher Education's right to pontificate..
I reckon that's about 4 points more than a certain Ms Penny would have notched up. BTW did you notice the black and red anarcho-syndicalist badge she's sporting? I wonder whether the anarchists insisted she returned her Lib Dem membership card? I'm sure it was still valid...not certain but I'm sure it must last for more than 2 years...she was still cheer-leading for them back then, no?
Accept it, Delete-at-Will, she's an opportunist fake who'd hang out a window for a bit of publicity?
Spud: Laurie doesn't turn it into a drama show .. the whole lot of it is a drama show. People 'act' in a certain way according to the circumstances they find themselves in. For instance, Laurie would behave differently if she was in an adult shop with some of her mates. There would be a lot more high pitched squeals!
Des: Why are you hanging out here? I'm one of Laurie's disciples from her days of her own blog, when she was an unknown red pen artist from Mile End. Her blog comments have always been fun.
"she's got a fuckin funny way of showing it."
I didn't mean her, I meant people in general. Like yourself. Plenty of people don't get through life without effectively barring themselves from certain activities i.e. public life (of whatever description). That's why I retain respect for people who do at least part of what is needed.
"I know that...you're defending her for the sake of a row." (See above).
"What do you actually think of her?" To be totally frank I have just got used to reading her NS blogs. Occasionally she writes something I think is a bit daft, but never really offensive to me intellectually. One thing that does annoy me is that she tends to review things she doesn't like. Why? why tell us, unless it is prescribed by the NS. Perhaps she simply likes juxtapositioning herself. Dunno. But there are plenty of other bloggers on this site who miss the mark who draw far less criticism, and some who barely get a reading it seems - Gavin Kelly for instance has some interesting things to say.
Is that enough of an answer?
What .. a bit to far .. for your liking. Listen Mitch, it's time for you to bend over and pull down your pants. You're getting six of the best. Whack whack whack whack whack whack .. and one bit for good luck WHACK.
It has to be done Mitch ... the Social Order is at stake.
Oh hi Spud, you're here. Hiya.
"I rarely see the likes of Spud Middleton and others in any other thread than Laurie's. What is this weird obsession?"
Because the media have adopted her as the voice of the Left...and that's something that leaves me sick to the core...it affects me viscerally. I've known and know of countless people who've suffered and strived and given their all to try and improve the lot of the working class...and for what?..so their legacy can be appropriated and pissed all over by an ignorant smart arsed know-nothing with a cushy media career to pursue?
No thanks DES.
Why Laurie Penny?...because they don't ask Hasan or the fat bald guy on...it's Laurie every time because she's just bound to be 'controversial'. I want the Left back, I want to grab it back from the shoddy Oxbridge fakes...so I chip away at exposing them for what they are..
Oh..but of course it has to be 'something more', doesn't it? Misogyny my arse. If it was "Tarquin TwiddleArse-Gobshite" getting all these gigs, d'you think I'd lay off...cos he's a geezer. Grow up you sad little sideswiped gibbon.
Can any of the pro-smackers explain when smacking becomes abuse? I knew a woman a while back who had been beaten as a child and ended up a runaway. Even in her mid-fourties she suffers from severe depression.
Point is when does a corrective slap become routine mistreatment? or when does 'liking a drink' become alcoholism. People can't be trusted: anyone who thinks the middle-class rational talk of 'spare the rod, spoil the child' won't turn into something far less benign in a deprived area is conning himself.
I think it is noteworthy that we haven't heard from any victims on this thread. Then again it is just the usual shouting match, not a serious discussion.
You actually won me over Penny. That comment about Chelsea and Kensington did it for me. The problem is obviously not how much violence you wield but your entire approach. There must be other techniques available to people of intelligence than smacking. It is time we employed our intellect rather than acting like animals.
Having said that, you did come across as a bit over the top. You may have alienated more people than you won over.
'sad little sideswiped gibbon'
One of the greatest proponents of left wing politics was Tony Benn who gave up his peerage to do so. Get over yourself and your class and ageist issues.
Oh Spud it's the end of the left as you knew it. The flat caps have gone. The 80s have finished. Everything sucks and everything is sillie.
btw: I got 19 in the Mastermind .. ha ha! But I know a bit about Ali.
@jankass & @fritzel
Sounds like yuo routinely beat them 'because it does them good'.
A 'smack on the arse' I agree would snap them out of a tratrum but so will a hundred other things like giving them their lunch on time, having a routine they understand, not letting them stay up late etc etc etc
Apart from smacking them, what else have you found which works?
"You have to admit the three pillars of your critique of Laurie Penny are in evidence:"
I don't have to admit anything...as I said, I liked the post..anyway..
three pillars? You've missed two. You forgot: my 'first pillar': her writing's florid, mawkish and self-indulgent.
the 'second pillar': she 'embellishes' reported events with invented incidents and stock characters who always seem to arrive at a propitious moment to confirm her analysis with a pithy and apposite quote...known as the 'sacred pillar of Hari'.
how's thing's btw? life keeping you interested? It's getting a bit iffy around here...works dried up.
I'm teaching again from next week. Looking forward to it as it goes...I know this sounds arrogant, but kid's dig the fuck outta moi. No-one does the simultaneous equation 'story' like I do...they just love the bit where the guy takes the gerbils back to Pets-at-Home cos they beat up the hamster...besides it generally turns out I know their dads and they know I'm not takin any shit.
Bribing them with money works.
And the third pilla, the one that you rest your head on.
I'm getting into some kayaking Spud but I'm laughing at the simultaneous equation teaching method. cu later.
If ‘violence supposedly breeds violence’ why is it that in the 20 years since the abolition of corporal punishment in schools, there is now more violence in schools than ever before?
I'll put it in simple terms for the benefit of Penny and her blinkered sycophants, it is the single most effective measure which would resolve 95% of school discipline problems overnight.
The reality of British schools is one where discipline has not so much deteriorated but more accurately totally disintegrated whilst the spineless chattering classes and trendy educationalists who created this disaster will continue to propose alternative toothless methods so that we’ll be having the same debate in 5, 10 and 20 years time.
The semantics of smacking: Here a smack, there a smack http://www.tanglemedia.com/blog/?p=471
"They're taking issue with Laurie Penny and the style of her performance."
What a bunch of middle-class luvies you are then.
Actually Mr Divine gives me the impression Gyles Brandreth is in the room.
Anyway, she was pointing out something that you agree with: that the debate is being shifted by spurious argument. Do you think they would invite someone on who they couldn't patronize? Maybe you think you are doing her a favour by telling her she's crap, but you are falling into the hands of the real enemy. They must be laughing their asses off reading this stuff. And you 'Mr solidarity' himself - solidarity with who exactly? someone else, anyone else who's performance is better.
Don't cry for a minute ... one dollar.
Don't stick your fingers up your nose... $5 dolllars.
Write an article for the New Statesman ... $400. Ho ho ho we're in the money!
Yo little boys and girls .. what's it like to sell your consciousness for pennies?
Screw the money. Screw what yo really think. Do you really think? Screw you all.
Laurie, pick your fights carefully. Looking at that clip you come across as "politically correct or bust" air head completely oblivious to common sense or the difficulties working class parents (who have problems in other areas too) have when it comes to controlling children. Instead of attempting to make life more difficult for these people why not run a workshop on kid control so that the "nasty" working class can learn how the "nice" middle class manage to keep their kids under control? If you mum and dad can do it so can working class parents: all they need is a little tuition in place of the usual condescension and being forced to work with philosophies designed by others.
Mr D, the "pilla" is for me to bite when we're together. Btw could I possibly have a Cherry with the double?
I see that spud middlemouth is still at it, a creature of habit if ever there was one. He appears to think that I'm posting as others. I wonder if he can evidence this? How long has spotty middlemouth been hanging onto your shirt? From what I read he has very few friends on here. Must be the cart.
''learn to write something longer than twenty words that doesn't contain a whinge, a whine or a grammatical error''
I will if you will. Rather ironic that all you seem to do is 'whine and whinge' about anything Laurie Penny writes?
Anyway I'm bored with you and your trolling. I don't think you are going to upset Laurie too much. Do you?
So discipline in the home 'smacking' is to be condemned, but the murders in Birmingham and London are to be welcomed, applauded and celebrated? There’s nothing wrong with measured discipline in the home. It’s the total lack of discipline in the home and schools that’s letting down and holding back; thousands of our children who deserve better. Miss Penny rioting is not the solution to society's ills, but you applauded it. Don’t equate or link the rioters with the working class; most of them arrested had previous criminal records most arrested didn’t want a job; the vast majority were members of that idle and feral under-class which ill-discipline and state dependency has reacted in abundance.
"I wonder whether the anarchists insisted she returned her Lib Dem membership card?"
There were plenty of other people who were taken in by the Lib-Dems. Not me though because distrust everyone. You have to be a real bitter cynic not to be taken in. It takes years, unfortunately.
Well said David Lammy, totally agree.
Laurie you come across as an immature child who clearly needs a good smack.
You must be so embarrassed by your performance.
The really ugly thing was watching Harriet defend something she didn't really believe in. So ugly when a woman can be rented to defend violence because of party lines rather than knowing the difference between right and wrong.
Knowing the difference between right and wrong? Is it intuitive then? Or is it just what YOU think?
Laurie Penny grow up. Your writing is weak and your views a not dissimilar to an angry little teenager. You devalue the New Statesman considering the other great writers who have worked for the title in the past. You totally embarrassed yourself on that TV appearance
"What a bunch of middle-class luvies you are then"
Oh touché darling!
"Do you think they would invite someone on who they couldn't patronize?"
Possibly not...but I think there's an equal chance it's all to do with a) class b) viewing figures...but the reason 'they' can patronise her is she isn't smart enough to stop them.
"And you 'Mr solidarity' himself - solidarity with who exactly?"
The working class...the elephant in the room...or rather nowhere near the room, where this thread, the NS, the labour party and TV studios are concerned. Who else is showing solidarity with them except in a vague theoretical sense?
"You have to be a real bitter cynic not to be taken in. It takes years, unfortunately."
I think there's a lot of truth in that...so why isn't there somebody with that experience, that understanding, that 'cynicism'-if you like-speaking for the left? And if you truly believe it's because 'they' wouldn't allow it, I don't see how I can be criticised for criticisng the lightweight comedy stand-in they do bring in to give some semblance of debate...she needs telling she's just fulfilling a puppet-role allotted her by cynical corporate interests, no?
I don't need friends. I'm like you sonny, my mam and dad look after me. They want the best for me...if I decided my 'thing' was acting out a sado-masochistic gay relationship online, they'd say: "You go for it Spud." Only they'd probably tell me if I was overdoing it and I'd exhausted any comic potential...they'd even let me know if it wasn't really that entertaining in the first place...they might even warn me before I started before I started that the whole thing might come over as lame and puerile.
"Anyway I'm bored with you and your trolling."
"Trolling"? What is that exactly...nobody's ever told me...it's always seemed a sort of rhetorical device thrown out by people who don't like what they're hearing...and couldn't win an argument in a photo-booth.
". I don't think you are going to upset Laurie too much. Do you?"
Well, actually, yes...but that's not why I do it. See above. I'm sure she's really quite pissed off as it goes...but then again, I think unlike her ridiculous 'followers', she wouldn't strain credulity too much by calling what I do 'sexist', 'classist'...OK maybe... or misogynist. I just think she's harming the Left.
Most of society’s ills emanate from the political-left; from poor discipline in schools to anti-authority attitudes. Discipline in the home 'smacking' is condemned by the political-left, but rioting and violence against the police is actively encouraged. You really do have your political-panties in a twist.
"You don't beat men up online, that's the point, you tend to think that abuse is beating up it isn't it just makes you appear foolish when I think that you have a lot to offer."
erm...OK..but when it's a woman...it is "beating up"...explain why please andyg. You've contradicted yourself again...a;though I think it was deliberate to try and divert the discussion from your rampant latent sexism. I'd love to explain why you think the "ladeez" need your special protection. Don't try and avoid it next time.
Mister Adequate. Do you condemn the resent barbaric rioting?
"A. You said it! oh and a big prick, again you said it!"
"A. Thanks. Manners cost nothing."
so in you're book, calling someone a big prick isn't bad manners...the contradictions just keep coming andy...you're a joke.
All future female political writers must report to Stuart Eels office straight away, so he can ensure they are able-bodied and sensible, before allowing them to pursue their careers.
Men, however, can be as ridiculous as they like (e.g. Boris)
You're up early Spud!
'I just think she's harming the Left.'
It's difficult to tell. I don't think the distinctions are as clear as you're making out or indeed anyone tries to make out. Looking back to what people 'saw' as the 'left' is no indication of what is the 'left' now. Is there not just an ongoing debate of what should be. All this camping into political sides ... it's silly. It's spooky!
All these new people joining twitter .. as if I didn't know!
Laurie Penny is a contributing editor to the New Statesman.