Enter your email address here to receive updates from the team.
My appearance on Channel 4 News, debating David Lammy's comments about parental failure and the riot
who are you fooling other than yourself?..back it up or shut up...here try this
low self-esteem, short-arsed ugly stupid little twat...erm..how about'kiddy fiddler'?.."job done"...erm.."because I say so"...is that how it works in your head?.."job done"
Can you write anything you can actually stand by and justify?..."job done"
thick cut!...hmmm? You talking loaves or did you miss out the 'n', you stupid twat.
"There again on the last but 1 page you stated that she'd gone out leaving you on your own." You keeping notes andy? please god...not another 'fanboy' in a bedsit!
Really have to laugh at Laurie's childish arguements. If anything she needs a smack.
If a child can't talk or be reasoned with and puts its fingers in a plug for example then a smack lets it know it's not to be done again.
The reason there is such a lack of discipline or respect these days is because children and youths fear nothing. Another left wing failure.
Seriously andy, I take that as a compliment...that you should actually recall what I wrote "on the last but 1"...can't honestly say I can recall anything you've ever come out with...probably because you're an eminently forgettable thick twat...in bedsit..with crusty sheets
"Kids are not different from adults."
they most certainly are. their brains are nowhere near developed. and all those solutions of yours are akin to a glass of water on a forest fire when dealing with a 2 year old having a full-on hysterical snot-and-tears tantrum.
in my experience, 1 carefully measured smack on the arse would snap them out sufficiently to then explain, discuss, move on with the rest of a lovely day.
"If you are doing something to your kid that you wouldn't accept another adult doing to them then you are doing something wrong."
nonsense, that's a false equivalence. i wouldn't let another random adults cuddle my kids, or bath them, or have a nap with them either. yet it's fine if i did so, no?
"being physically assaulted is not one of them."
and i've never "physically assaulted" my children either. do get some sense of proportion and perspective. the odd smack on the bot is no great shakes, i explained the circumstances when i did so.
i do hasten to add that i think a clip around the ear, as has been mentioned by others, i don't agree with. the brain is too delicate. a smack on the bum is fine.
Smacking is what stpid people do to discipline their children. If an adult can't 'get one over' their child without a whack they should be hanging their head in shame.
Effective discipline needs a signal from the parent that the kid has crossed the line. I guess this can be achieved with a smacks, but it can be achieved without. My guess is smacking is used as much as a releas for the parent as it is as a communication method.
Horrific news on the educational front for Penny. Latest data on university applications:
"Our analysis shows that decreases in demand are slightly larger in more advantaged groups than in the disadvantaged groups. Widely expressed concerns about recent changes in HE funding arrangements having a disproportionate effect on more disadvantaged groups are not borne out by these data."
Not that LP is especially bothered by facts.
I thought you were brilliant, please, please, please appear on TV to talk about subjects you know absolutely nothing about.
I love the squealing and whining tone too, it always sounds to measured, appealing and rational.
Especially to parents...
"I was smacked as a child by my dad pretty much arbitrarily as a child and it did was make me resent him.
There's a huge contradiction in the pro-smacking camp."
so which persons in the "pro-smacking camp" have advocated arbitrary smacking? clearly you made this up, which is the only tactic open to the enfeebled anti-smackers. that and lying, missrepresenting, ad homs etc.
very dull indeed Damon.
Well done New Statesman, for removing the first two Mysogynist comments from earlier in the day!, if the two Yellow Cowards who wrote them had someone talking to female members of their families like that, i`m sure they wouldn`t be shaking the cowards hands claiming free speech?, or am i wrong?, no doubt the usual Laurie Penny Hating attention seekers will justify Anything said against her, under the guise of free speech!, and can`t we criticise her because she`s a women routine?, mind you, some of her Haters probably think it`s ok to give their women a slap, to know their place?.
"We're trying to rewrite history to try and say that the riots were not caused by civil unrest and social breakdown.."
erm...WTF does that mean? Surely riots "are" precisely 'civil unrest and social breakdown'. Of course that's what 'caused' them, that's what they are. That's like saying people are trying to claim "Horses are not 'caused' by four legged equine quadrupeds."...who'd do that?
If she meant "We're trying to rewrite history to try and say that the riots were not caused by civil INJUSTICE and social INEQUALITY.." then fair enough...but she just lets her mouth run away with her and spouts any shite that sounds vaguely radical and cool. She's an atrocious debater.
"In the same way that a 'clip round the ear' should not be equated directly with out and out violence, nor should 'the left' be continually equated with "1984"."
perhaps it would have been better for your comment if they hadnt actually been well on their way to having us ID carded, branded as paedophiles unless we had a CRC piece of paper OR disarmed of anything more lethal than a spoon in the face of assault/robbery as it was under the previous government (lab).
"Sorry to butt in, but the only thing that is wrong with 'the Left' is that it keeps beating itself up about how it has gone wrong."
"Labour need to get back to brass tacks and start thinking like one of my old countrymen Aneurin Bevan:"
hang on..."only thing" wrong...and they've just gotta get back to the spirit of Nye Bevan?...and what about the chasm...the grand canyon, even.. of principle, solidarity and belief in working-class agency and potential that's separating your average Labour backbencher's free-market managerialist mindset from Attlee's programme? ..fuckin lightyears away...different animal entirely.
Strange thing is the nearest you get these days is Roy fuckin Hattersley..I still can't quite accept what he now represents...I can't help thinking of him as the spluttering ineffectual Spitting Image goon, who was virtually a Tory wet...now he's a sainted figure because he embodies the end of a long line who were raised on Nye's vision.
"Left wing radicals" these days seem more informed by identity, single-issues, pseudo-anarchism, their middle-class upbringing and a desperate desire to adopt an ersatz proletarian persona that owes everything to Shoreditch and fuck all to the actual working-class...who they, frankly, despise. There not 'not much' wrong with the Left...just everything they say, do and believe in.
Thanks Mr D. I'll have Martini. Please don't bring our little friend though. I can envisage him getting laid out b the lads with the tattoos and two days growth. Will you entertain me with that pinball machine thing? Wow
PS Mr D, will you be smacking my bottom again for been a naughty girl?
I've never been quite a fan of Laurie but I think she won the war of words. A fundamental flaw in all parents is that they expect their children to grow up to be a credit to them. A good parent will try to bring about the reality of the childs dreams and not their own. It worked for me.
As for the smacking I kinda support her...although as she isn't a parent I think she's making herself a hostage to fortune...if she raises even a couple of kids, particularly boys, without the odd clip...or at least claims so afterwards, then she's full of it. I've had to...and I mean 'had to' smack my own occasionally, and I'm not too proud or, frankly, too bothered about it. If a twenty something middle-class poser wants to call me a brutalising tyrant on account of it, I can't do more than laugh in their face.
I was hit frequently as a kid, as were my mates. Then again, to be fair, we were a bunch of violent, thieving, destructive little twats...and although we weren't well-off, we weren't actually starving...but we did it out of pure badness. It wasn't that we felt society had neglected us or took no account of our 'spiritual' needs...and as it happened, some useful-idiot social worker once tried to offer us some 'counselling'. Me and my brother kept her talking...spouting shite about lack of facilities and not feeling valued...while my mate and my cousin robbed her car.
Looking back, am I ashamed? Nope...looking back I think "Result": 1-0 to "Real People United" thanks to a sloppy own goal from one of "Nurturing-Muesli-Knitter City's" clueless back four.
Laurie said the police have been 'terrorising' Tottenham and London for years???
WHAT AN IDIOT!!
"A good parent will try to bring about the reality of the childs dreams and not their own. It worked for me."
...so you've never had a dream about being able to write coherently?
And, just what kind of human being needs their parents to help them realise their dreams...other than a over-dependent inadequate...unless, of course a lifetime harnessed to the apron strings was another feature of your dreams?
Did you mean to say that a good parent will raise a child with the capacity to realise their own dreams?
If so, I think you'll find that's what most parents do; it's a sort of default position, in fact.
I suspect you're not actually a parent. If you ever become one and consider yourself uniquely enlightened because you just want your child to be happy and able to pursue their own dreams, then you're a pretentious twat...the vast majority of parents want exactly that. It would be a bit like thinking you're some kinda ninja master cos you can flick a Hoola Hoop in the air and catch it in your mouth.
Ah, Laurie, you've let the cat out of the bag haven't you ??
You think 'the state' should be judge, jury and executioner in 'family life'.
You would quite happily sit in judgement of families where a bit of smacking went on, and would take the kids away from their parents and let 'The State' look after them.
The fact that we have so many kids waiting to be adopted, but your ilk, and 'Social Services', will only let them go to someone sharing your political views - despite the fact that almost any 'family life' is better than none, explains so much..
You would cheerfully take kids away from their parents, despite the fact that this would ruin their lives 100 times as much as even quite severe smacking, and chalk it up as another victory for your political dogma and ideology.
Thank goodness you are just a mouthy 'columnist' and don't have any real power to form opinions and legislate.
And you have that ability known only to 'non-parents' to immediately know the best answer to any question to do with parenting. Rather like many 'non-drivers' who will quite happily proffer 'back seat driving' advice to those who actually have some practical experience to speak of...
I actually have to agree with spud in terms of Laurie's debating technique. Even with the most open of goals (Lammy's comments are ludicrous) she completely missed the target! Too many stepovers before eventually stepping on the ball and falling over when a simple side foot into the gaping net would have sufficed. Her technique is in desperate need of an overhaul. Think Bonnie Greer treating Nick Griffin's ridiculous notion of 'Indigenous Britons' with the contempt it so deserved. That's how it should be done.
@jankass, well said. I have experienced exactly what you said and a smack on the bottom sorted it easily with no after effects.These dangerous idiots that want to interfere in and control every aspect of our lives need to be fought every step of the way.They just cannot accept that they do not always know best.Which is a pity, as they don't. Lammy's comments about rioters etc were ridiculous but i agree with what he wants to happen with ragard to smacking.Lets hope the tories have some common sense on this issue and reverse the law.
Smacking a child may not do the child any good but it sure as hell makes me feel better.
Nice post...could have substituted for the rest of the thread for me
"There is a world outside of your cupcake baking, pseudo-socialist bubble you know."
Top drawer phraseology.
keep going sonny...there are new depths of embarrassment out there to be mined.
Ever broken the skin or bruised?
My kids have lots of tantrums. When they do I often tell, show and rehease with them different ways how to answer back to me more robustly and effectively to exploit their position (how opposite an approach is that to most people who would smack their kids instead?). But its magic and calms them down immediately as they start to think through carefully about their next move - I given them praise when they win which turns tantrums into a fun game. Its teaching them life skils they can turn into cash instead of smacking them.
When they start shouting and stomping I tell them to use their words instead and give examples of what they could say. From 2 years they been picking it up very quickly how to be excellent at manipulating people (like their mum who learned from her mum).
Hitting them would mean I had totally failed the generations.
did I mean my last one for Mehdi Hassan...did you?...seems to have been a bit of cross-fertilisation? Did I fuck up...or you...or is this the tight thread? Anyway, I'd hate to start thinking I came on here to discus the woes of the Labour party and its appalling leadership soap-opera...What Ed needs, nose job and personality-steroids aside, is a script-writer from Home and Away as a lifestyle coach to give his life some meaning.
"Top drawer phraseology."
Certainly sounded just like you man. Separated at birth perhaps.
If you delete posts it makes the people underneath look silly when they are commenting on them.
I realise Lefties only want free speech when it agrees with them.
"Too many stepovers before eventually stepping on the ball and falling over when a simple side foot into the gaping net would have sufficed. Her technique is in desperate need of an overhaul."
Perfect analogy. So why is she continually called in as a 'talking head', given her debating incompetence, her background (which, like it or not, is an issue...she's speaking for people with whom she has little affinity nor contact...not even any 'shared experience' when you consider her education)and her liberal attitude to objective facts?
I can only come up with the following:
a) The media always goes for one of it's own-ie, Oxbridge middle-class-even when it's looking for a 'radical' leftwinger.
b) They've taken the corporate shilling and want the left to look incompetent and ridiculous...or want perhaps to trivialise political dissent; turning it into a circus act while they get on with their managerial programme unhindered by serious opposition.
Seriously, I can't think why else they would do it...unless, of course, it's
c) I'm just an astroturfer for the Patriarchy, trying to belittle and discredit the UK's most brilliant and insightful female political analyst in a generation.
Add amnesia, ffs it's endless.
I'm sure Laurie doesn't get upset at the comments about her ,the Student fees will go ahead without her support, her middle class Tarquin friends will go to prison for thier offences, she say's she supprts labour ,Who will lose the election ,and people will be in poverty due to it, But hse can go back to her middle class home, and put more lies online, Like when she said Alfie meadows was hit by a police truncheon leaving the kettle.
A couple of pointers. Talk slightly slower with less emotion and don't interrupt. People feel sorry for the person who has been interrupted and as a result are more likely to sympathise and agree with them.
The media like controversy, something slightly different. It's nothing to do with the establishment. It's all a drama show.
"And it's not like "Spud Middleton" grew up to be a disrespectful violent wanker, is it?"
erm...what makes you think I'm violent
and to whom, exactly, am I disrespectful?...do you mean Laurie Penny?...remind me; what's she done to earn my respect?
"It's all a drama show."
That's it in a nutshell Divine. It's meant to be serious political debate but she turns it into a 'drama show'...now you're starting to see the problem.
Wouldn't it be better to put up someone who could keep it at the level of political debate...someone who was actually good at it?
Laurie, you made a right fool of yourself. Because you had nothing sensible to say, you perverted what Mr Lammy said by turning a discussion about smacking into "beating, brutalising and terrorising" children. It really was quite pathetic to watch. Rather than making a fool of yourself on television, maybe you should stay at home and actually think things through sensibly before opening your mouth.
Err...'only thing wrong' followed by 'something else wrong' No excuses there, just a plain old rhetorical slip lubricated by Johnnie Walker. "or is this the tight[sic] thread?
"There not 'not much' wrong with the Left...just everything they say, do and believe in."
You have a point. It seems to me that getting voted in is most important to them. Imagine government as a great big tyrannical capitalist combine harvester. It goes up and down the fields mowing up all the world's produce and blasting it into a hopper marked 'for rich people'. The idea of getting into government is to get in the driving seat, but not essentially to do anything other than drive up and down just the same. The different parties just hate whoever is driving if it isn't them, I (part of the Left) hate the combine harvester and what it does.
Oh dear Spud, you are a spoilt thing. Why do you fear women so much? I'm sure that it's only over something little. never mind.
Before someone does the inevitable
Indu: That's very interesting. The problem I have with that is the noise level. Most tantrums are screaming and whining. I tell them they can carry on but at a lower decibel level and talk not shout.
p.s. I can't remember if I borrowed the combine harvester analogy from someone, so sorry if I did.
andyg, I don't think Spud fears women at all. In fact quite the opposite! No andyg why don't you and spud have a nice cup of Earl Grey tea and get to know one another before Spud has to get into his van and do a roof job in the snow,
"Separated at birth perhaps."
No way...erm, I hope you're not hinting I'm posting as other people then bigging myself up. That's more of an andyg tactic...I just liked the post...anyway,my lost twin's Moe Szyslak.
Hey spud gun, didn't I read you having to tell others that you dreamt of Kebabs? LOL
Keep pulling the little cart spuddie. Oh well it takes all sorts.
Hey Mrs militant feminist, can i "beat, brutalise and terrorise" my 19 year old girlfriend in the bedroom when we are having rampant animalistic type sex, or is that abuse ? do i have yours and the states permission to chose what i do in my own home ? After can i demand she puts my dinner on while i smoke a electric cigarette ? LOL .
SMACK SMACK SMACK
You're a naughty girl and you know it Angela. And this smacking I've just given you is for your own good. In time you'll look back on those horizontal red marks on your behind and admit you deserved them. Now put your frilly knickers back, dry your eyes and sip on the double martini.
"Oh dear Spud, you are a spoilt thing. Why do you fear women so much?"
Cos my mummy and daddy said they were bad...and the dreams I had about them were 'bad dreams'. My mummy and daddy are there to help me and I always do what they say...cos they want the best for me.
"I'm sure that it's only over something little. never mind."
Is this your attempt at a sophisticated and subtle: "and you've got a little dick .", andy? My how proud mummy and daddy must be of their lickle soldier. Hate to break it to you, andy, it's actually rather big, and your comeback is kinda 'sub-Inbetweeners'...and if the best you can do is resort to name-calling in response to my considered decimation of your self-righteous pretentious scrawl above, then, let's face it, I was bang on the money about you...you pathetic child.
A fact or two:
The average age of a rioter was about the 22 mark. That means if you start smacking children at three years old in 19 years there won't be any riots.
The smacking ban came into effect in 2005.
And I get to link a favorite tune too.
This is all looking like a bit of an academic (to use the word in a common but incorrect way) argument now but:
"why isn't there somebody with ...that 'cynicism'-if you like-speaking for the left? And if you truly believe it's because 'they' wouldn't allow it..."
I can answer this. They are probably too afraid of sustained abuse and intrusion into their private lives. Who in their right mind would set themselves up for such an ordeal?
"she needs telling she's just fulfilling a puppet-role allotted her by cynical corporate interests, no?
It is beneficial to be aware of such possibilities, but that doesn't require it being shouted at a person.
I wondered where you'd got to. I hear you've had a fair bit of mopping up to do. Oh bless.
As for santa, as I guessed wrong, I thought he'd be the type to come early. Nice to hear from you again.
And right on cue...you step in to confirm my analysis...andyg...you're a diamond.
Laurie Penny is a contributing editor to the New Statesman.