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Invoking the Blitz implies that there are no alternatives to the coming austerity.
Stuart may or may not be “educated” but he sure as hell has more intelligence and common sense than your dumb ass. He knows where his political center is, you haven’t a clue. You are yet one more wannabe pompous jerk who figures he’s some kind of intellectual if he calls himself a Conservative. Stuart hit the nail on the head. They are all out for themselves.
I think most people on the progressive left know what they want - a prosperous liberal pluralist society; a democratic, open and secular government; far greater social equality; less squeamishness about the "frontiers of the state" - when left to themselves the wealthy, priveleged and powerful take advantage of the weak, the poor and the undereducated, and sometimes it takes the power of the state to confront that. If you think you ought to retire at 75 so that we can bail out more bankers, you're not a socialist. If you wonder why bankers can retire at 50 on huge pensions, and what if that money was split between us all so everybody else could retire earlier too, you're edging closer to socialism...
" Socialism means that the means of production are controlled by the workers themselves through democratic organisation in the work place and the community"
There are some interesting goings on at the moment in Argentina along those lines.
Buckskins. Interesting point you make, let me try and respond. I'm not against what you say there at all in principle. I advocate entitlement for those that genuinely need it; that's why I stand steadfast against any attempt to take away from those in need, often through profound physical and mental disability.
In the same way that we have the genuine disabled, I accept we also have the genuine scrounger. I'm not about helping them; they get shown the door fairly rapidly! (I'd say that was also true of many other reputable agencies). I'm a tax payer too!
But there are also the transient unemployed, some of whom have admittedly become too reliant on state support. Now it's here we have a problem, we can't deny their existence, what we must do is tackle the problem. Some of these people have been out in the wilderness for too long, they lose all motivation, their best hope of getting back into work is in the first six months, beyond that they slip into bad ways. It is here that I believe we can motivate and persuade. The problem is that not all of them have got the kind of knack you need to thrive in an entrepreneur world. There are some who only fit the employed earner mould, I don't see that as wrong as it is realistic to consider different talents when considering
where people are likely to fit into the workplace.
I completely agree with worthwhile training opportunities and all of those kinds of pro-active measures. I do however reiterate my point over treating people with respect, a good example of which was how you responded to Stuart in various posts, I applaud you for that. I'm absolutely sure he'll find his way in time, helped by respect, he'll get back into it.
I called in at McDonald's (not my usual haunt) only yesterday and saw
people beavering away, I was amazed to count so many workers, 17 or 18 in a not too big kitchen area, but they all had their heads down, every one was doing something. Personally, I couldn't see how that could pay, but it was good to see people hard at work, they were polite, the food was okay and it was quick, that's all good to me.
Similarly, I see nothing wrong with old Stavros and Easy Jet, he employs people and gave cheap air travel to many, so you see, I'm not against all that kind of entrepreneurial spirit. I've been to places I probably wouldn't have been to if it wasn't for the competitive prices on easy jet.
Now you talk of capitalism, I don't see that we ever will have true capitalism over here, any more than we will have real socialism. Why? because deep down the majority of us want a decent welfare state. We are thankfully too humane a Nation to just let everyone fend for themselves, I'm sure you agree with that sentiment.
Now where I have a problem with what is perceived as capitalism is over the message that this Country is sending out. It is saying that it's alright to screw people out of thousands, give them competitive rates to encourage lending then leave them high and dry when the mortgage starts to climb and the bailiffs call. The message only adds insult to injury when we seem to okay millions in bonuses to those that are almost next to criminal with the way they rip us off; yet we go all out to nail Joe blogs for diddling £65.45 per week whilst doing a bit on the side. That's just not compatible with moral justice. It would be if both perpetrators were being treated with equal contempt but they are not.
Now if this coalition changed it's attitude and stopped invoking so much fear, people may start to gain confidence again. That's a start when people are feeling as kicked as they are now. At the moment the distribution of wealth is serving to belittle those at the bottom.
I do believe the private sector can assist recovery but only once we've created a social structure whereby all those flipping burgers in McD's are truly 'luvin it'.
Oh do grow up.
you are dodging my question left is forward,what are right wing views,what are left wing views.i need a answer to that because are the left superior to the right or are the right superior to the left.you see when cameron and clegg appear on the tv like 2 long lost brothers reunited embracing each other with cudles i just get kinda confused what is right wing and what is left wing.until i get a answer to that i will have to increase my daily levels of valium.
Nick, I have tremendous respect for your views and work. Where we differ is because we know that the Golden rule, Motivational interviewing, CBT and pro-social modelling are excellent tools. Nevertheless despite all of these, we both know that some will not bother. You might say that they are let down by society (which to a degree they are). However was the poor circumstances so bad that the person could not succeed?
reminds me of the question in uni,
"If you knew a woman who was pregnant, who had 8 kids
already, three who were deaf, two who were blind, one mentally
retarded, and she had syphilis, would you recommend that she have an abortion?'
The veracity of this statement is disputed. Whatever. The fact is success is a function of expectations and everyone can have some success.
Stuart, your unemployment and conviction does not bother me. The fact that you justify your actions, (and inactions), blame others and refuse to take responibilty does bother me, a lot.
If people like staurt took jobs in factories and fields we wouldnt need to 'import' foreign labour on the scale we do - we could have 100$ employment.
Until the Stuarts get off there arses, we should be grateful to the army of foreign workers - whether they work as NHs doctors or cabbage pickers. I salute you all.
"The rich should be able to do as they like", "a small state is better", "we musn't get in the way of business" (i.e. the rich people who run and own businesses), "taxes are too high", "private schools are a form of charity" are all views that are right-wing. Somebody who actually cares about people, and about equality, and believes that it's the duty of government to protect those values, is left-wing.
thank you buckskins for your intelligent comments.hope you note that divvy divine and brodeprick.
Thank you PhilDuval for an excellent post and for the recognition of the work I do, I'm grateful to you for that.
As for the remarks of a man who calls himself 'Divine'; oh what blind faith there is in how capitalism is in some way going to come to our rescue. Do people like you not read the news? Do Connaught and BAE Systems not ring an alarm bell or two, or perhaps you are just too blinkered and fail to see what's really going on. Both of these private sector firms have announced massive job cuts, both because of expected cuts in the public sector.
Your 'ideal' neglects how modern societies have a duty to their citizens, in the form of hospitals, schools, defence & law enforcement; a duty which extends to those genuinely in need of a bit of State support. It's why we pay 'National Insurance', it's a little like the payment protection you probably pay on your nice car. A properly run economy should factor in these essential costings whilst maintaining steady economic growth. Labour achieved that up until the Global recession took hold.
To simply choose to take these services off the menu is economic madness, it's also ignoring a basic principle of debt advice; to base a repayment proposal upon disposable income after essential expenditure.
As PhilDuval correctly says, you entirely neglect to the real thieves in this greedy society of ours, the bankers who took our money and rewarded themselves with disgusting bonuses that they simply didn't earn or deserve, they are the real cheats in this day and age. A common trait amongst you so called capitalists is how you overlook such greed, attempts to justify it ring hollow. Oddly enough a lot of your ilk, associate themselves with 'those at the top'; in reality a lot of you just spout such views because you see yourselves as little property barons, laughably your sort often start off with ex-RTB's from the Local Authority; the self same people often award themselves with a big blue rosette in recognition of their 'achievement'. Alternatively, many of you come into a nice little inheritance from your parents or some old granny who you never much cared for, I think that's almost sponging; it's hardly 'earned income'is it now?
I don't feel I need to justify my work to the likes of the not so divine. I work hard, damned hard, I pay taxes just like you and feel I'm worthy of what I get paid. As for the people I help, let me tell you a story:
"Many years ago, on my way to work in the early hours of what I thought was just 'another' day, I saw an event which changed my whole outlook on life. It involved an horrific road accident involving a perfectly fit and healthy lorry driver aged a mere 29. I'll spare you the gory details, suffice to say it was very gory, everyone around me was just 'too busy' to stop and help, no doubt on their way to somewhere terribly important. Unfortunately, it was a little late for help; I saw that man go from being very much alive to very much dead, all in less than around 8 minutes. I later learned he had a wife and two very young children, I learnt this at the inquest where I heard the coroner give his verdict 'accidental death'."
The reason I tell you this little story is because it often reminds me today of how people like you should never be too sure of what could be just around the corner, you might be grateful of a bit of welfare one day; I hope not but it could happen.
I'm not saying all stories are the same, but I've helped around 4500
in the last decade, that's constructive help by the way. I'm not some 'do good-er', the vast majority I help are, I assure you, genuine. A day with me would teach you a thing or two, you'd go home with a different view, I guarantee you that.
So before you belittle what I do, have a think about what may be ahead.
As for Stuart, you know something, I think he's alright. He's a bit straight forward with his words, but he's honest and willing to learn. I don't put him on life's scrapheap at all, he's probably the kind of person who'd give to someone worse off than himself, he's a better person than the likes of you that calls himself divine, he'll find his way; you'll just never see the way.
Absolutely. I hope you gave Murdoch's lackeys a good slapping. What really annoys me is that somehow the cuts have become 'our' fault. The right wing media are going helter skelter to portray this as the result of Labour mismanaging the economy rather than the real cause which is the Government having to bail out the disasterous, greed fuelled decisions taken by the banks. How many of those arses vote labour?
Check the media this week and see how many times the cuts are linked to those huge bailouts. I'm guessing never. Even in this esteemed mag.
well that kinda explains wayne rooneys behaviour in the last couple of weeks,has his richness and boy he is a wealthy young man corrupted his working class roots and turned him into a right wing capitalist,according to you left is forward he fits the perfect picture of a rich rightwinger
100% even! bloody typos!
Laurie Penny is a contributing editor to the New Statesman.