The best of Paul Krugman vs Reddit

Nobel prize-winning economist fields questions from "The Front Page of the Internet". What could go

Paul Krugman has a new book coming out, which means he is doing a lot of thing that one doesn't normally see from a Nobel Prize-winning economist. First he debated Ron Paul on Bloomberg TV, including a bizarre interlude involving inflation in third-century Rome. Then yesterday, he did a question and answer session with Reddit, the hugely popular social news site which brands itself "The Front Page of the Internet".

Under the headline IamA Nobel Prize-winning economist and New York Times columnist, Krugman – username nytimeskrugman – spent a couple of hours answering questions from Reddit users. Here are some of his best answers.

Responding to user sychosomat, who asked about the problems caused by the inability to perform experiments in economics, Krugman wrote:

Well, not being able to do experiments is a problem, but not as bad as all that. We do have statistical techniques for trying to sort out what's going on, although I'm skeptical about their power. But mainly we can look for "natural experiments", which often tell you a lot. In End This Depression I talk about how wars provide a natural experiment on fiscal policy; right now forced austerity in Europe is providing another set of natural experiments.

You may ask whether both sides in every debate won't nonetheless find ways to support their positions. My answer here is that this is not, in fact, happening. On the question of whether austerity is expansionary or contractionary, we had some alleged evidence for expansionary effects, but it was quickly shot down by the normal process of scholarly discussion. In any normal scientific debate, this would now be a settled issue.

I guess that what I'm saying here is that while the non-experimental nature of economics is an issue, the apparent inability to resolve differences that you see right now is about politics, not the inherent problems of the discipline.

Cthwaites asked how close we are to repeating the mistake in 1925, when Britain returned to the gold standard for seven disastrous years. Kurgman:

All around Europe's periphery they're doing it as we speak, er, type. The euro has served as the functional equivalent of the gold standard.

The difference for, say, Spain is that since they don't have their own currency, it's much harder to change course than it would have been for Britain under gold. But if you look at, say, Latvia, they're doing the full Churchill -- and being hailed as a role model even as they enforce a devastating slump on themselves.

Asked by Curbsidejohnman to give the best argument against austerity, Krugman replied:

I think it is to point out that if nobody is buying, nobody can sell. Austerity in a depressed economy makes the depression deeper, and that is, I believe, a point people can grasp. Of course, it's a point made easier to grasp now that the Irish and others have given us such clear examples of how bad the results of austerity can be.

Bloometal asked about Krugman's views on behavioural economics. Krugman wrote:

I think there's a lot of very good work in behavioral econ. But I don't expect a unified theory for many, many years. There are just two many ways the assumption of perfect rationality can fail, and I don't think we have enough broader understanding to put it all in one package.

That said, we can use behavioral econ even as it is, as long as we're modest about modeling. As long as we are prepared to say "this is how people actually seem to behave" without demanding general theorems -- for example the obvious reluctance to accept nominal wage cuts -- we can go a long way toward analyzing real-world issue in a way that can guide both prediction and policy.

Finally, one of Krugman's answers which works best without any context:

Shave around it every day, and get your wife to clip it fairly often.

(Oh all right, he was talking about his beard)

Photograph: Getty Images/

Alex Hern is a technology reporter for the Guardian. He was formerly staff writer at the New Statesman. You should follow Alex on Twitter.

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7 problems with the Snooper’s Charter, according to the experts

In short: it was written by people who "do not know how the internet works".

A group of representatives from the UK Internet Service Provider’s Association (ISPA) headed to the Home Office on Tuesday to point out a long list of problems they had with the proposed Investigatory Powers Bill (that’s Snooper’s Charter to you and me). Below are simplified summaries of their main points, taken from the written evidence submitted by Adrian Kennard, of Andrews and Arnold, a small ISP, to the department after the meeting. 

The crucial thing to note is that these people know what they're talking about - the run the providers which would need to completely change their practices to comply with the bill if it passed into law. And their objections aren't based on cost or fiddliness - they're about how unworkable many of the bill's stipulations actually are. 

1. The types of records the government wants collected aren’t that useful

The IP Bill places a lot of emphasis on “Internet Connection Records”; i.e. a list of domains you’ve visited, but not the specific pages visited or messages sent.

But in an age of apps and social media, where we view vast amounts of information through single domains like Twitter or Facebook, this information might not even help investigators much, as connections can last for days, or even months. Kennard gives the example of a missing girl, used as a hypothetical case by the security services to argue for greater powers:

 "If the mobile provider was even able to tell that she had used twitter at all (which is not as easy as it sounds), it would show that the phone had been connected to twitter 24 hours a day, and probably Facebook as well… this emotive example is seriously flawed”

And these connection records are only going to get less relevant over time - an increasing number of websites including Facebook and Google encrypt their website under "https", which would make finding the name of the website visited far more difficult.

2. …but they’re still a massive invasion of privacy

Even though these records may be useless when someone needs to be found or monitored, the retention of Internet Connection Records (IRCs) is still very invasive – and can actually yield more information than call records, which Theresa May has repeatedly claimed are the non-digital equivalent of ICRs. 

Kennard notes: “[These records] can be used to profile them and identify preferences, political views, sexual orientation, spending habits and much more. It is useful to criminals as it would easily confirm the bank used, and the time people leave the house, and so on”. 

This information might not help find a missing girl, but could build a profile of her which could be used by criminals, or for over-invasive state surveillance. 

3. "Internet Connection Records" aren’t actually a thing

The concept of a list of domain names visited by a user referred to in the bill is actually a new term, derived from “Call Data Record”. Compiling them is possible, but won't be an easy or automatic process.

Again, this strongly implies that those writing the bill are using their knowledge of telecommunications surveillance, not internet era-appropriate information. Kennard calls for the term to be removed, or at least its “vague and nondescript nature” made clear in the bill.

4. The surveillance won’t be consistent and could be easy to dodge

In its meeting with the ISPA, the Home Office implied that smaller Internet service providers won't be forced to collect these ICR records, as it would use up a lot of their resources. But this means those seeking to avoid surveillance could simply move over to a smaller provider.

5. Conservative spin is dictating the way we view the bill 

May and the Home Office are keen for us to see the surveillance in the bill as passive: internet service providers must simply log the domains we visit, which will be looked at in the event that we are the subject of an investigation. But as Kennard notes, “I am quite sure the same argument would not work if, for example, the law required a camera in every room in your house”. This is a vast new power the government is asking for – we shouldn’t allow it to play it down.

6. The bill would allow our devices to be bugged

Or, in the jargon, used in the draft bill, subjected to “equipment interference”. This could include surveillance of everything on a phone or laptop, or even turning on its camera or webcam to watch someone. The bill actually calls for “bulk equipment interference” – when surely, as Kennard notes, “this power…should only be targeted at the most serious of criminal suspects" at most.

7. The ability to bug devices would make them less secure

Devices can only be subject to “equipment interference” if they have existing vulnerabilities, which could also be exploited by criminals and hackers. If security services know about these vulnerabilities, they should tell the manufacturer about them. As Kennard writes, allowing equipment interference "encourages the intelligence services to keep vulnerabilities secret” so they don't lose surveillance methods. Meanwhile, though, they're laying the population open to hacks from cyber criminals. 


So there you have it  – a compelling soup of misused and made up terms, and ethically concerning new powers. Great stuff. 

Barbara Speed is a technology and digital culture writer at the New Statesman and a staff writer at CityMetric.