The growth-deniers' game is up. Just look at the numbers.
Contrary to the coalition government's spin, the economy was recovering nicely under the last Labour
By David Blanchflower Published 11 November 2011 13:44
Contrary to the coalition government's spin, the economy was recovering nicely under the last Labour government.{C}
Today is the day to report back on the battle between the coalition and the opposition over who has been right on the economy. Keynes versus Hayek; growth-deniers versus deficit-deniers (supposedly like me). The jury has now reached its verdict and the coalition is guilty as charged -- they have destroyed growth and pushed the UK into a recession worse than we saw in the 1930s. Contrary to the coalition government's spin, the economy was recovering nicely under the last Labour government.
Yesterday, the European Commission said Britain's economy will grow by just 0.7 per cent this year, 0.6 per cent in 2012 and 1.5 per cent in 2013. The figures are miles below the 1.7 per cent, 2.5 per cent and 2.9 per cent growth forecast by the Office for Budget Responsibility (OBR) in March. It is broadly consistent with the forecasts of the CBI and NIESR. Given that we have already had growth of 1 per cent in the first three quarters of the year, this suggests that the Commission is expecting negative growth of 0.3 per cent in Q4 and/or the earlier quarters to be revised down. The OECD, the IMF and the EU have now given up on George.
The recession can be split into four parts. First, the "down" part which started in the second quarter of 2008 and went on for a total of five consecutive quarters of negative growth, during which output fell by an enormous 7.4 per cent. Second, the "up" part, which also lasted five quarters (from Q3 2009 to Q3 2010) when under Alistar Darling and Gordon Brown, growth increased by 2.8 per cent. Then, the "flatline" phase under George Osborne, which is also fifteen months long (from Q4 2010 to Q4 2011) with growth of 0.2 per cent, assuming we use the EU's estimates. Osborne destroyed Darling's recovery. Then, finally, the "stagnation" phase, lasting 24 months (from Q1 2012 to Q4 2013) with growth of 2.1 per cent over two years, or an average of just over 1 per cent.
So by the end of 2013, only 5.6 per cent of the 7.4 per cent drop in output will have been restored. This is worse than the 1930-1934 double-dip recession, which had only a slightly bigger output drop but was over in 48 months. By the end of 2013, this will number 69 months and counting. It is no good blaming the eurozone, old chap. This means that Osborne will have caused the longest-lasting downturn for at least a century, which because of his incompetence has now turned into a depression of epic proportions. Acording to the EU Commission's forecasts, it will take Slasher Osborne 39 months to achieve the same growth of 2.8 per cent as Alistair Darling's policies achieved in fifteen months. Spin your way out of that one, Mr Fallon. If the problems were all inherited from Labour, how come they were able to grow the economy twice as fast as the coalition has? Blaming the eurozone won't wash.
Judging by Vince Cable's comments yesterday, it looks increasingly unlikely that the coalition has much of a plan B. The Autumn Statement is due at the end of the month, but he appeared to rule out tax cuts or a new burst in spending. Infrastructure projects are fine, but will take a long time to have an effect, as will credit easing. That old Tory chestnut of removing regulation and red-tape, as ever, is likely to do diddly squat. The growth-deniers' game is up. Just look at the numbers.
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61 comments
Well thats 3 down quarters we are up to now......
I don't know how you can keep a straight face Mr Blanchflower.....or have you made this statement to "wind us up" for the weekend.
I am afraid you and your commi friends, new labour ran this country into the ground.
After 13 years....give it a break.
Let someone else have a go. They can't do any worse than Brown and Balls.
Commies, that old chestnut.
Pam Morgan, the Government seems to do a excellent job of running the country into the ground, and when out of government, talking the country down.
People like Pam need to explain, why there was 1,000,000 people on the NHS waiting lists in 1997.
Danny
There are several fatal flaws in your argument.
1) In 2009 the government continued to grow the public sector stimulating the economy with borrowing. Had this continued the deficit would be ginormous not just enormous. Lets agree 2010-2014 Brown/ Darling would have borrowed more than £250Bn more than the coalition (disprove me if you do not agree). But it, Labour, would have sustained the AAA for so long.
2) During 2008, the economy went into shock, consumers deferred spending and instead started paying down debts. From 2008 Q3 onwards there was a consumer bounce back as delayed purchases were made. This was inevitable and not caused by policy. Excluding the bounce back flattens the Q3 Q4 2009.
3) The 2008 period brought the 2000-2008 period (public private borrow and spend) to an end. Go look at Bovis. The construction investment accelerator reversed naturally and 12 months later the economy inevitably slowed. Go look at 1990, exactly the same happend in contruction vs the general economy. Labour could be blamed for not taking policy action to prevent the reversal but I actually doubt they could have stopped it. The smart money fled the UK.
So take out just these three factors and it makes your hypothesis look false.
Spinning a straw man?
We probably also disagree on what success looks like. There no doubt the public finances, despite the mess they are in, are in much better shape now (a policy benefit not given any weight in your article).
Indu p.....Diddums, Diddums, it appears like your other Tory friends Luddite, and Awake, you get very defensive and abusive if anyone questions your Dear leader Flashman along with your hero Gideon?, you really need to relax and calm down!!, you`re obviously disappointed with the gross incompetence of your idols Flashman and Gideon?, i always find your comments highly entertaining and predictable!!, even though they come across as uncaring, selfish and ignorant!, but that comes with the territory being a loyal Tory!!.
Also forgot to mention that in its dying days did the last government empty the public sector budgets - "use it or loose it" under central pressure? The stimulus showed up in 2010.
Do you sympathise for Mouchel?
Inbrew is trying to change straw into gold.
Public finances in a better shape?
Welfare spending up by 5%, two fuel duty increases on the way, and Inbrew is cracking open the bunting.
we need to focus on making the uk more competitive we have fallen down the league of tax competitiveness, we need lower corporation taxes, i would also lower labour/income taxes for the lower income ranges by lifting the tax free threshold higher.
we need the UK to become the no1 destination for startups, increase infrastructure spending but lower growth sapping govt admin jobs.
in addition why dont we simplify taxes why dont we merge national insurance and income tax to start with?
there's so much here that's wrong.... but even using your table Mr blanchflower, the ONLY down quarter was Q42010 (we had the worst winter in 100 years- Uk was closed for december- and please, spare me the US comparison how they deal with snow, back in UK trains don't run cos iof the wrong type of rain, or was it leaves- actually it's both, we had some excess downpour one time and the trains stopped hahaha- So, the ONLY down quarte with worst winter in 100 years- the one u mark down is a forecast from, erm, the european Union, that bastion of financial knowledge and integrity. So, 1 qarter down so far despite ALL the predictions u've made- wow, u have made a lot of noise for a long time about how the coalition would have smashed growth by now, and here u are ringing the bell AGAIN as Obama is on the phone to Merkel, sarkozy and the italian president pleading with them to grow up, geithner saying they are destabilising the global economy... so what do u do as the 'ivy' league cheerleader to balls? u slam the coalition, praying q4 is a disaster and that u can vindicate the blame on the coalition, ignoring Europe our largest trading partner- wow!! your cynicism is almost equal to that of a structured credit salesman in an Inv Bnk circa 2002/2007
It's also becoming clear that you have not grasped what's actually happening globally- differentiating 08 to today shows you have not understood the kernel of this problem, you woudn't though because it concerns excess debt, something you and many other Chicago school economists have misunderstood in the last 30 years. I can't blame you for having grown up in that paradigm but confess I'm surprised that your not upgrading the knowledge in light of the clear global events and they're strict significance. I mean, if anything, as an 'economist' times like these must be delicious as well as stressful cos we're at the limit of our understanding almost everyday, so much being made up as we go along...
Disappointing that ure not pushing envelopes, or re-writing them. And u get paid!! how DOES one get on that gig???
A poor politically motivated piece.
Lastly, you also display a lack of understanding of stewardship- u don't see that the current mess means that investors are very unforgiving right now- having a plan that's delivering historic low rates and 0.5% growth last quarter is good going. Balls would have interest rates at 7.5% by now with his madness. And as for darlings plan that was 'saving' us, well, didn't he himself say labour had no credible plan??? U quote himas a defence?!!! weird. (I really dilike quoting growth as some sort of justification but u and ure ilk seem to treasure it at all cost ) agian showing lack of understanding.
Keep up the good work with the numbers though, I genuinely hadn't realised that coalition has only had 1 down quarter so far.
Eddy S
simplifying the tax system is a great idea I think
I am not surprised by that remark Awake.
I suppose 0.5% growth in Europe next year is to do with Osborne as well.
David seriously you're becoming a laughing stock. We have some of the lowest interest rates on bonds in Europe, in case you've not been watching there has been near oblivion in Europe.
Argh nevermind, let's just borrow more - who cares all that matters is more GDP growth, nevermind the debt
It`s so laughable and predictable that sychophantic tory lovers like Luddite, Indu p, and Awake are living in total denial and they live in a parallel world!!, you all really are sensitive little buttercups when anyone challenges your beloved Tories!, Gideon and Flashman are perversely satisfied with what`s happening in the euro zone!, because they think it will excuse and hide their total incompetence in running the UK economy?, which is ironic considering they slagged Gordon Brown when he mentioned the global economic problems?, but that`s what the british public are now used too!, Lying, Incompetent, out of their depth Tories like Gideon and Flashman blaming all the british econimies problems on everyone else apart from themselves!!, their Hubris and Altruism will be justly rewarded by the electorate in 2015!!, meanwhile, most of the country is getting screwed and shafted by these idiots!, 18 months in and Gideons economic strategy is in tatters!, not to worry, because Gideon clearly isn`t!!, Luddite you seriously need to calm down and keep taking your medication?, try saying a sentence without using a profanity in it?, it`s not that difficult?.
p j wall: I'm not a tory you knob..
and by your rant... it's you that needs the medication.....
In order to supply the demand for Asia there has to be products made. Consequently raw materials are needed. Australia is the richest country in the world when you ratio raw material with population: it has lots of raw materials and a small population. It is also on the doorstep of Asia.
It is not just a coincidence that that Australian dollar has risen significantly in the past couple of years. Australian houses are also the biggest in the world so people can fit lots of goods in them. Plus we have excellent Federal Financial Policy: we did not go into recession and we have had excellent growth since the early 1990s. The federal budget is set to return to surplus around 2013. The immigration policy is strict in the sense that we only allow people with required skills or family members.
Growth can happen within this region. It does not need the demand of the US and European people. In fact there will be demand for Asian products from Africa and Latin America as the people here will seek to achieve a level of material comfort found in the First World.
p j wall: Who rattled your cage, is that dirty bedsit getting you down.. Why don't you get together with Matthew fox and crack-open a few cans of white lighting. You can talk bollocks together until the early hours, after all neither of you have jobs to go to...
Leveller: Labour didn't invest Labour squandered. Labour didn't help the poor, but entrapped them in poverty. Labour's ethical foreign policy a sick joke. Labour's open-door immigration policy denied millions of our young people hope of employment. That's why the above drunken reprobates are so angry.
Eddy S
In fact there are relatively simple steps we could take to increase employment- reducing bureaucracy, reducing the madness of health and safety and simplifying tax codes wuld BOOST employment at no cost- so why aren't we doing this?
PJ
' which is ironic considering they slagged Gordon Brown when he mentioned the global economic problems?'
er, the pointwas actually that brown had wasted any reserves we might have been able to use now- remember best to fix the roof in the summer? You woudn't get that i guess cos u've never paid to have a roof fixed.
well bud, i tell u now, me and quite a few others are well narked right now for having to pay for u and your moronic mates, and now it's cutting into my kids future, well, I am properly annoyed now- so wind your neckin you twat cretin lest u get that block knocked off
And can I just say, nothing irritates me more than the conservative hyperbole that private sector jobs are what will re-ignite the economy, and that the private sector subsidises the public sector. What utter nonsense! Economies grow when citizens become more productive- their employer is irrelevant, i.e. an NHS employed doctor earning 100,000 a year contributes as much as a self employed doctor contributing earning 100,000 a year. I spend a lot of time in Uganda, which a few years ago was heralded as the most entrepreneurial country in the world. Well take my word for it, that entrepreneurship is not taking Uganda anywhere. Surely this is common sense - 100,000 new garages and clothes shops in Liverpool might make for impressive statistics, but if they are all importing stock from China, then that simply points towards a ballooning trade deficit.
Is it me, or am I still feeling anger from Luddite?
You have to feel sorry for him though, he leads such a life, he has to be abusive.
As usual, I am having to correct Luddite's factual inaccuracies.
1, White Lighting, is actually White Lightning.
2, White Lightning was discontinued in 2009, so these cans, that me and p j wall are alleged opening, must be collectors items.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Lightning_%28cider%29
"Contrary to the coalition government's spin, the economy was recovering nicely under the last Labour government" David please stop calling yourself an economist, you are a fantasist and a appalling Labour party apologist... fuck--me have you ever run a fuckinggg business.......;.
Luddite -
This seems something of a digression from the economics nonetheless you are right about Labour but all three main parties have fought to camp on the middle ground on all the major arguments for 3 decades. They just call themselves different names and contrive fake arguments but plus ca chose, plus ca meme chose.
As for Afghani the boys could be brought back tomorrow from this unexplainable "war" but Cameron has no spine for anything of course.
Having said all that you divert attention from any sensible discourse Luddite by the aggression in your writing. It adds nothing at all to your postings. You appear to have some anger management issues.
Him.."Hi Honey...we have got to sort out our debt problem so I have gotten rid of the car, the money that we save on the repayments will put us back into the black in 5 years"
Her..." But Sugar, the car is your only means that you have of getting to work and without it we wont even have an Income"
Him "Shut up you deficit denier"
Real Tory (not Cameron fakers) agree.
you wouldn't like to cross me in the real world.. I never forget or forgive.. I'm only a bastard with shits. I'm wonderful with cats and dogs, children and old people.
Regrettably the New Statesman is as intellectually vacuous as the Conservatives by assuming that growth is the solution in a world increasingly poisoned and quantitatively finite.
Utter tribal apologist nonsense, please drop the 'economist' title mr Blanchflower, you are a Labour Party stooge looking for a bigger and better job in any future government.
You were found out long ago, change the record, your arguments don't stack up.
I was told one crucial thing in the (admittedly) relatively little statistics I've studied over the course of attaining a PhD in Mathematics. It is that correlation does not equal causation. You can speculate for hours about how it's been done wrong, and how it could have been handled better, but at the end of the day a very large part of it is an attempt to find the true cause of the problem. If anybody could genuinely do that, then they'd have the stock market pretty much sewn up! Apologies for not actually coming down on one side or the other, but it's complicated enough for them - let alone me.
Someone further up said "supply Asia..that's where there is growth..." or something like that.
I would like to point out that you need to produce something that Asia wants to buy from your country.
I live in Australia and the only British good you find in my home is HP sauce because my wife likes it, I can't stand it.
Sure there is still the odd Rolls Royce around for weddings or by someone with too much money.
Apart from that I haven't noticed any British goods in any shop I have visited or in a friends home.
My neighbour is English and the family owns two VW's. My car is Japanese and my computer was made in Malaysia.
So think again if you think Asia or the wider world will be a solution to your economic problems.
If you want to sell something to the world you have to have something the world wants to buy.
Most people in the world don't want or need financial services from the City of London crooks.
IMO what I said is food for thought.
@Charlesfrith 13.43.
Economic growth is a reflection of our ability as a sentient species to continously advance ourselves when we co-operate, becoming more productive in the process. The role of the state is to facilitate this advancement by any means possible, including directing resources towards those ventures that may prove most productive. At present, there is enough energy, water, and land to ensure that the increasing productivity we have exhibited as a species for over 10,000 years continues. What restricts growth? Policies that restrict individuals access to resources and education, as well as policies that prevent individuals co-operating and investing in each other. Growth will always be possible, no matter what some statisticians might postulate.
"It is no good blaming the eurozone, old chap"
"Blaming the eurozone won't wash"
Can you explain why or are we supposed to figure this out for ourselves?
That is the guy we need Gordan Brown will sort out this nonsense.
Look at him!
It's all just a game to Gideon Osborne and his friends in high places.
He must know that he has trashed the economy, you know, deep down in his cold heart.
Can we not have him arrested or something, for the damage he has caused. I am completely staggered that he remains in his post.
Come on Luddite, your self ridiculing posts are what they are, the only emotion you are getting out of me is pity.
Your on the right track to getting banned, and all by your own hand, well done old man.
I'm old enough to remember when Will Hutton was in vogue with the political-left. Mr Blanchflower is no Will Hutton. Labour economic credibility is in tatters and no amount of rewriting history or apologising will change that fact. The very thought of Ed Ball's entering number 10 and holding that little red box is nauseating and some what unsetaling.
1% We all know how the political-left hates free speech and other folks points of view. How's dolly?
@Luddite:
"We all know how the political-left hates free speech"
Funny, I don't see your comments being deleted from this leftist Web site (I wouldn't like to see them deleted, either).
Despite your anger-management issues, I do see where you're coming from. Sadly, I don't think the Labour party would ever have been elected in '97 had they had different economic policies. Economically, there is very little to separate the three major parties.
"Without growth, you have no confidence, no jobs, it is a simple as that"
No. Growth can be driven by different sectors of the economy. We dont need UK consumer growth to have a booming economy -- consumer consumptions consumes the fruits of wealth creation but it does not create wealth.
So measuring success solely by GDP growth is flawed.
@Colin ISTJ
"That is the guy we need Gordan Brown will sort out this nonsense."
Do you mean:
"That is the guy we need. Gordan Brown will sort out this nonsense."
Its all about the small details. Like Gordon borrowing £350Bn before 2008 and the banking crisis, not investing the money and now our kids have to repay it.
@matt
Foxy, bunting, what?? I can see your diet now from your regugitated tripe. Stick to fish for the brain then so you will be able to understand peoples posts.
Our kids are now paying the price of the Labour project. But look at Italy which implemented Labour's Plan B (fiscal expansion through borrowing and failure to manage the economy credibly according to Alistair ).
The truth is we are heading along a difficult road to recovery which involves a substantial adjustment in people's expectations. Miliband knows it. Where is Miliband critising the coalitions deficit reduction policies or fighting against cuts to public sector pensions?.
@Awake, @Luddite.......You both really need to in the words of your beloved leader (Flashman),CALM DOWN!!, it`s really a compliment to be threatened and insulted from a pair of cowardly playground cyber bullies like yourselves!!, your grammar and intellectual debate is truly inspiring and enlightening!!, you both should write a book on Inspirational Quotes and Phrases to the English Language!!, i`m sure it would bring tears of joy and happiness to everyone in BROADMOOR!!!.
Luddite....Mmm i think you`re getting into an agitated state again?, calm down!!, i know the drink that compliments you?, a drink that says everything about you?, yes!, you`ve guessed it, BITTER!!.
"p j wall: I'm not a tory you knob.. ". Snap.
"brown had wasted any reserves we might have been able to use now".
Luddite and Awake are on the money as usual.
Reading the posts above
- Foxy: tries not to think (he thinks what his friend tell him),
- PJ has a neurological problem stopping him thinking (no brain) and
- Mr ISTJ does think sometimes (but hang on a minute, need to check the little red rule book defines "sometimes").
The Uk exports diesel engines to Russian, the UK exports £33 Million pounds worth of fish and seafood to China.
Danny: It's very easy to explain Danny. Japan reached this point in the early 90s .. there is only so much you can fit into your house. Once you've got of the basics then the next step is saving and getting returns. Consequently demand for products falls. What's the point of riding two snowmobiles at once? You only need one.
You've got to look to Asia for growth .. where people don't have all the things like washing machines, TVs etc... that s where the growth will come. And talk about critical mass .. you've billions of people there wanting stuff.
"If the problems were all inherited from Labour, how come they were able to grow the economy twice as fast as the coalition has?"
You repeat this point in almost every blog of yours. And yet you surely must know it is a disingenuous argument.
Darling was borrowing heavily in the months ahead of the election. Borrowing 10.8% of GDP and achieving 1-2% growth is really nothing to crow about.
The "cuts worse than Thatcher" that Darling had promised were all postponed until after the election for obvious political purposes.
That the pre-election trajectory of economic growth could have been maintained after the election is simply crazy.
Darling as a chancellor post May 2010 would have enacted much the same cuts and tax rises as Osborne and with similar effects.
Had Balls been appointed chancellor and pursued a policy of maintained high deficit spending then we would be in probably worse straits as inflation shot up to near double digits as the pound collapsed.
I wonder if Luddite has sworn at Will Hutton as well.
Luddite is just another day from getting banned, and he will only have himself to blame.
I would love to see that article showing Lagarde and the credit rating agencies criticising public sector pensions, the clock is still ticking.
Without growth, you have no confidence, no jobs, it is a simple as that.
Osborne is hiding behind the eurozone crisis, he was to busy to watch tennis at Wimbldeon to attend to his duties.
I leave the numbers up to you Danny. I'm having problems counting past three! Happy fishing. Catch a big one for me mate.
Love Steve
Both parties are probably as bad as each other. At the end of the last Conservative government, many public services were crying out for extra investment. While PFI (effectively buy now, pay later) enabled new building projects to get off the ground quickly, it costs more in the long term and evidently there wasn't much scrutiny or negotiation over contracts, so the private sector companies effectively screwed the taxpayer. Labour also failed to see that perpetual growth is a fallacy, so shouldn't have increased spending as much as they did.
However, with the new government, local councils are facing 20% cuts over the next few years, but since the private sector is also shedding jobs (rather than hiring redundant public sector workers) tax revenue isn't rising and the deficit continues to rise. Not to mention that during Conference Season, the government managed to find millions of pounds from nowhere to fund pet projects.
I'm also wary of increasing the number of publicly funded private sector companies to run services - with budgets falling and the need for these companies to maintain (or even in the case of PLCs increase) profit margins, while at inception they made provide better VFM than publicly run services, what happens in the future the combination of decreasing budgets conflict with not only increasing demand but the need to make increasing profits? A first step is likely to be companies buying each other up, with the potential to create local monopolies (e.g. local Academy schools run by one or two nationwide educational providers) which in the long term decrease choice and local influence (since the company's HQ may be hundreds of miles away)
No!! never. 1% i've read most of Mr Hutton publications.. The State We're In: remains a fantastic read, i highly recommend it.. did you ever get past the Beano.