David Allen Green

A critical and liberal look at law and policy

Rioters, police, and sentimentality

Unclear thinking about social disturbances.

By David Allen Green Published 08 August 2011 11:24

Sentimentality and partisanship are the banes of English political life. It may well be the same in other countries, but the polarisation which means that normally sensible people think that abuses of power are only what the "other side" do has been a feature of our domestic politics since well before the 1688 revolution.

For some people, usually conservatives, there is sentimentality about the police. This is notwithstanding the repeated evidence of police corruption and brutality, and the casual dishonesty of police spokesmen whenever some new tragedy comes to light. The "boys in blue" do a "difficult job". It is "not easy, you know".

For others, the sentimentality is about rioters. And this is notwithstanding that the criminality that often accompanies or follows-on on from protests cannot be justified in terms of politics, or indeed anything else. Instead of protesting earnestly outside Currys and JB Sports about the evils of highly priced consumer goods and the low wages of those who usually make them, the windows were smashed and those same goods were simply carried away in shopping trolleys.

In fact, neither the police nor the rioters can be praised or blamed in universal terms. There has been a sequence of civil disturbances, some spontaneous, some planned; the police dealt with some of these well, and sometimes badly; and some protestors had a point, and some just took full advantage of an opportunity. But even now, the sort of people who have strong but easy political opinions are seeking out who is really to blame, whether it be certain hapless politicians on holiday, the loathsome bankers, the police, or the looters.

And in all this, nobody's mind will actually change, for -- as usual -- civil disturbances will re-affirm and not challenge views already held. The other side will again been at fault. They always are.

Tags: London Riots Tottenham riots

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25 comments

Tue, 2011-08-09 18:44 — Awake!

like the piece, been having similar thoughts.
If the kids have worked out that they can thieve all at once and get away with it, turn off the local fone masts? their success depends on lack of coms

Mon, 2011-08-08 12:51 — Bren Tierney (not verified)

Reminds me of Paxman's aphorism: "No one has yet worked out how to generate electricity by hand-wringing."

Mon, 2011-08-08 12:58 — Chris (not verified)

@MarinaS. What you say to the young man is that the headline "NOTHING EXCITING HAPPENS AT RELATIVELY SMALL PROTEST" is not as sexy as "VIOLENCE ERUPTS". It's how the media works.

Tue, 2011-08-09 10:51 — Mrs,M L Bonwick-Jones (not verified)

there is a world of a difference between people fighting to be free, and people who are fighting because they have far too much freedom, take no responsibility for their actions and have no respect for their communities, and the police have always been far too frightened to deal with such people. Prehaps David camerons idea of a tough american police chief is a good idea i know Teresa May is not too keen!

Mon, 2011-08-08 14:02 — PC George Dixon (not verified)

Well, there was a little bit of a bonfire in Tottenham, which was a shame. Peter's cousin Alf got his new video game just in time for his birthday, though. Terry went and got one before the shop caught fire, so thats all fine.

Mary managed to get home through the back streets. It was a bit hard for her because she was carrying a large plasma TV, but a couple of her mates chipped in to help.

Our nick was involved, of course, and a baton charge soon set all to rights. A few local lads are up before the beak in the morning. It's all a bit different from Dock Green, but I suppose that;s what you get over here on a good night out.

Night, all.

Tue, 2011-08-09 12:57 — Francesca Martelli (not verified)

One way of sitting on a fence, I spose

Mon, 2011-08-08 17:52 — AndyPW

It was predictable, and predicted though (see The Guardian video report 31 July 2011). No sentimentality. Youth clubs are shut because of cuts, youth are put onto the street and some engage in unsavoury behaviour, they are harassed by police, and cue riots...
Also predicted by Nick Clegg, see speech 16 March 2010.

Mon, 2011-08-08 18:42 — oldebabe

So, is there ever any answer to what to do about, and how to stop, people who behave badly?

Very depressing.

Mon, 2011-08-08 19:13 — Ivan Miletitch

And as for the author's statement 'in fact, neither the police nor the rioters can be praised or blamed in universal terms.'....I'm left speechless! I just hope the next car or house to burn belongs to Mr Allen-Green & we'll how he feels 'in universal terms'....twat

Mon, 2011-08-08 19:09 — Ivan Miletitch

And again today, footage of yet more looting in Hackney...I'm sorry but the Afro-carabean community has to accept its share of responsibility...12-13 year old boys out in the streets armed with baseball bats or iron bars...clearly either the parents have completely abdicated all notion of authority or are OK with their kids doing what they are. And the 'racist' card is far too easy an excuse, when I lived in B'ham at the time of the 80's riots, the attackers were black, the victims of looting/vandalism were almost all asians (corner shops/pubs/community centres torched...)
In a sense, a good lesson to those who thought it was a marvellous idea to spend millions of pounds for the London olympics 'regenerating' the area....waste of taxpayer money in my view

Mon, 2011-08-08 19:34 — foowzkaa

Ivan,

There is no hyphen between "Allen" and "Green".

Just so you know.

Mon, 2011-08-08 20:09 — Cempreepsyfet

@Ivan

"I just hope the next car or house to burn belongs to Mr Allen-Green & we'll how he feels 'in universal terms'....twat..."

Well said, Ivan: spot on.

Mon, 2011-08-08 20:12 — karagopok

Brixton's Falling on www.myspace.com/madoldpunks

Wrote this a year ago. The Dialectic was predictable - Tories lashing out against Labour profligacy. Same old, same old.

Tue, 2011-08-09 20:00 — Watching (not verified)

Get your extra large flat screen while you can.

It's so political!

Tue, 2011-08-09 00:04 — Mr. Divine (not verified)

@David Allllen;Greeen:

So you think the police spokesman was being dishonest when he said, 'it was a difficult job'. So you think it is not difficult. What makes you think this? Have you ever done this job?

Who is the person being dishonest here ... David Allen---Green?

Tue, 2011-08-09 05:58 — Andy Brady (not verified)

What a load of nonsense! This guy just saw his furniture shop go up in flames, no insurance money (Riot exclusion!), can't rebuild his business...15 staff unemployed...I am sure these 16 people are currently debating if 'the rioters could be praised or blamed in universal terms'. Mr Allen Green seems extremely concerned at the fact his name should NOT be hyphenated....cretin! Seriously though, why are the Police not using tear gas & water cannons (I mean, what does it take, how bad should it get before they resort to using pretty much conventional riot control equipment?) - I do admit it is a shame the decision to award the Olympics has already been taken as this would have probably dealt it a fatal blow, saving London taxpayers (& UK wide too I'd imagine) a great deal of money!

Tue, 2011-08-09 06:29 — tony montana (not verified)

The riots issue against the police after a black person been shot by them. Nothing to do with shops or people who now had there homes burned down they should take it out on police not innocent people. There has been reports police took over 30 min to looting british police a laughing stock of europe i think.
Get the army out mow down the animals

Mon, 2011-08-08 11:33 — AY (not verified)

But do you not think that there sentimentality for the police's difficulty in controlling "animal behaviour" (which has been heard several times on BBC and SKY), and sentimentality over unemployed youth from economically and politically desroyed areas looting aren't two sides of the same coin?

Thu, 2012-02-02 14:18 — MagpieView (not verified)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kiCzdqW3Rk

Mon, 2011-08-08 12:14 — Julie Brandon (not verified)

Very balanced and well written piece. I agree wholeheartedly. The truths are usually somewhere between the two extremes.

Tue, 2011-08-09 08:43 — Freeman2

The funniest thing yet from the Daily Telegraph: 'The train station, Clapham Junction, is known as "Britain's busiest train stations". A few miles south are dozens of middle class families and million pound homes.' Oh dear, a few miles south.

Wed, 2011-08-10 02:54 — Jamie (not verified)

Why do mps keep pushing this "we police by Consent" What the hell does that mean?
The police need power and support and not stupid jargon.

Tue, 2011-08-09 09:54 — Mrs,M L Bonwick-Jones (not verified)

This happens when you spend many years turning a blind eye whilst gang culture has replaced family for some in this country, maybe labours 13years social engineering exercise, the hand wringing and the thinking of wooly minded liberals has not worked, the same can be said of the politically correct policing making certain young people believe the normal rules in society do not apply to them, as i have said before this is also due to a Lack of education, a breakdown in communities, and lack of respect probably on all sides!

Tue, 2011-08-09 10:01 — swatantra

So what's the difference berween scenes of violence and mayhem on our streets and those in Damascus or Tripoli or Bahrein? The difference is that Britain is a democracy and there is a process for putting your views across. Only, it doesn't seem to be working. We have no National Police Force so that men and resources can be moved to potential trouble spots quickly when the need arises. And we are reluctant to bring in the Army and Reserves when clearly civil order has broken down and reluctant to use water cannons and rubber bullets on the mainland.
We leave things till too late. Clearly order must be restored before discussions can begin.
This could be a 9 day wonder, already into its 3rd day, and the violence is spreading to other cities. The rioting and looting must stop. But only tougher measures will do it.

Mon, 2011-08-08 12:38 — MarinaS

I'm as uncomfortable condoning criminality and violence as anyone; but I honest to goodness don't know what to say to the young man who pointed out to MSNBC News that there was a peaceful demonstration of 2,000 outside Scotland Yard some months ago, and nothing got reported or discussed until the riots began.

I certainly haven't heard of that demonstration - in all honesty I haven't even heard of Tottenham before yesterday (I'm new here, bear with me).

Even when larger numbers of people go out onto the streets, as on March 26th this year, all one hears about are the paint bombs and smashed windows. No smashed windows usually means no coverage.

So what can we offer, in good faith, to people who feel their protest and their pain are being silenced that will really have an impact? They certainly can't think of anything other than to riot, or they wouldn't riot (unless of course one takes the view that they're a bunch of criminals who were just waiting for an excuse, which I don't).

So I'm sorry to be on the side of the stupid asshole kids posing with their looted video games, but I just don't see what I have to offer them instead except for moralising condescension.