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The Blue Labour saga was very weird. Why on Earth would Labour claim they would suddenly adopt the policies of the BNP especially given New Labour's record?! It was unconvincing enough back in 2005 when the CONservative party claimed they would adopt ethnocentric nationalist policies.

How stupid did Glasman and the Millipede think their intended audience were and who exactly was their intended audience?

and what is it you represent?

RABBIS AND IMAMS OPEN LETTER TO ED MILIBAND

Dear Mr Miliband

We are writing as British Jews and Muslims, rabbis and imams and community leaders, in an open letter which we are forwarding to the media of both our communities.

We share a commitment to fighting racism, antisemitism and Islamophobia wherever they are found – including within our own communities. This position is informed by Jewish and Muslim ethical teaching on equality and human dignity.

We wish to express our concern at some of the statements on English national identity, immigration and the English Defence League, made by your close advisor, Lord Maurice Glasman, Labour peer and founder of “Blue Labour”.

He has spoken of his vision for Labour “to build a party that brokers a common good, that involves those people who support the EDL [English Defence League] within our party”. He has said that it is not the case that “everyone who comes is equal and has an equal status with people who are here”. And he has also called for a complete halt to immigration, and implied that he is against asylum (“Britain is not an outpost of the UN...”).

These comments have caused such offence and concern with the Muslim community that some mosques have announced a prohibition against Lord Glasman entering their premises.

We are extremely worried by Lord Glasman’s pronouncements and use of language. Whatever his intentions, these sentiments and soundbites on such an emotive topic as immigration just give fodder to extremism.

We feel that it is important for you to dissociate yourself from these comments, and we call on the Labour Party to reaffirm its best traditions of anti-racism, equality and compassion for all people in our country.

Yours sincerely

Sheikh Dr Muhammad Al-Hussaini, Lecturer in Abrahamic Religions at Al-Azhar College, Al-Azhar Al-Sharif

Sheikh Professor Mohamed Elsharkawy, Secretary of Scriptural Reasoning Imams Council

Dr Edie Friedman, Executive Director of the Jewish Council for Racial Equality

Imam Shahid Hussain, Head of the Interfaith Department, Regent’s Park Mosque London

Rabbi Reuben Livingstone, Chair of Children of Abraham, Jewish Chaplain to H M Armed Forces

Imam Dr Abduljalil Sajid, Chairman of the Muslim Council for Religious and Racial Harmony UK

Rabbi Jackie Tabick, Chair of the World Congress of Faiths

Rabbi Elizabeth Tikvah Sarah, Rabbi of Brighton and Hove Progressive Synagogue

ENQUIRIES TO: enquiries AT childrenofabraham DOT org DOT uk

(Children of Abraham is the national charity for rabbis and imams, the Jewish Council for Racial Equality is the national body in the Jewish community on asylum and immigrant rights, the World Congress of Faiths is an international interfaith organisation, Al-Azhar Al-Sharif founded in 960 is the oldest centre of Islamic learning in the world, Scriptural Reasoning is the practice of Jews, Christians and Muslims meeting to study their sacred texts in order to foster understanding and respect for religious differences. Maurice Glasman has been a leading exponent of Scriptural Reasoning, and used this as the "Faith" justification in Blue Labour's "Faith, Family and Flag")

the fact that the above feel they talk for the muslim community, is alarming what would be more reassuring is if the above understood the concern that those in labour who agree with the EDL that extreme islam ,with it' sexist homophobic anti semetic views, have

Blue Labour had some good ideas - mostly the spoddy ones that won't get headlines like local banks and more german style employee representation on boards of directors, unfortunately the whole "conservative labour" thing was suspicious from the off and most people rightly suspected it was a bit of a smokescreen for Glasman's hankering for a utopian 1950s where everyone left their doors unlocked, policemen gave short trousered urchins a clip round the ear and all the ethnics were safely overseas.

With a bit of luck we'll maintain the good ideas, ditch the creepy ones and temper the nostalgic utopianism with a convincing vision of the future.

Great article. Bigger problems with Blue Labour than Glasman's big mouth. Its anti-statism and emphasis on local campaigns and communities is very worrying. After all a political party is about gaining state power and using it. Fear Blue Labour would be happier having 2 million dedicated activists working on local campaigns than winning a general election. Blue Labour is not serious.

WinniethePooh

I said.....direct answers will be appreciated!

You cannot be a labour supporter or a lefty of any description to express such contempt for the working classes.

By the way unemployment is higher amongst immigrant communities. For example 50% of black youths are unemployed (compared to 20% of white youths). This fact undermines your assertion that the white working classes are less willing to work than in other communities.

Children of Abraham
The simple truth is we have fuck-all in common with religious fascism and we should be making that simple truth loud and fucking clear, and as for religious fascists 'taking offence' they can always leave and take your desert dogma's with them...

Dan - are you being disingenuous? Clearly, Maurice is NOT demanding a complete end to all immigration, hence his comment: "we should be more generous and friendly in receiving those [few] who are needed"

He is calling for a halt to the mass immigration we have seen in recent years. By wilfully ignoring the malign consequences of what has happened, we are driving a massive wedge between the Party and its natural base, including many in established minority communities.

To drive Maurice out of the temple would be a political error with serious long-term consequences. He is right, and brave, and hasn't got a racist bone in his body.

At least I spell check my posts though.

Seriously, I could engage with you but there's a limit to what debate you can have with...

"1. Most of Scotland is uninhabitable ( i don't just mean the E end of Glasgow)

2. Most of Wales is uninhabitable.

3. Most of England north of the M62 is uninhabitable.

4. England south of the M62 contains Dartmoor, Exmoor, Rutland Water, the New Forest, Forest of Dean, the South Downs, North Downs, etc etc: all of these places are unsuited to large scale commercial industrial or residential use

Lowland Urban England (i.e London & Home Counties, W Midlands, M4 coridor and M62 coridor) is already one of the most densely populated areas of the planet, and the South east, where most of the immigrants are and will be gravitating, is already vying with the land of the Late Theo Van Gogh as the most overpopulated area in W Europe. WE DON'T NEED ANY MORE IMMIGRANTS. Get that through your thick skull."

I'll give it a go though.

Firstly, you're conflating population distribution with overpopulation, which has very little to do with immigration and everything to do with bad planning and internal economic imbalances. (focus on a mode of production and economics weighted towards financial and service industries which are based in one area.) This would make the case for the re-balancing of the British economy and re-investment and an addressing of internal contradictions in neo-liberal capitalism, it doesn't have anything to do with immigration.

"Lowland urban England...is already one of the most densely populated areas of the planet"

Really, you actually believe that? So more than (to name a few) Lima, Jakarta, Cairo, Dakar, Shenzen, Gaza. You're even wrong when it comes to the Euorpe: Madrid, Ankara and Athens are all more densely populated than London & the South East.

Your jibe linking immigration to Islamic extremism is also disingenuous, as it assumes that the majority, if not all of the immigrants you are opposed to are extremist Muslims, coming here to destroy "our" way of life.

Migration has, in recent years been mainly from within the EU and the radicalised minority of British Muslims are, to my knowledge (going on evidence from previous court cases) British citizens, not immigrants.

I wasn't intending to flaunt anything. It is good that you recognise it as superiority though.

So, everyone who disagrees with the Grauniad/New Statesman/ Al Beeb line on immigration (iE the whole population of the planet should be allowed to settle in the UK if they wish to do so) is "eccentric" or "racist" and must lose their job?

What a mature debate.

LadyJ

"How many of us are abroad taking other indigenous populations' jobs?The only difference is; we are treated with respect when we work abroad, whereas we treat non-Brits with such hostility".

I recently applied successfully to immigrate to Canada.

The process took nearly 4 years, cost a fortune and every aspect of my life was examined in minute detail. You could get fast tracked only if a company that was a member of one of the provincial immigration schemes could make a case that you had skills unavailable elsewhere in Canada.

The only reason we succeeded was because my wife has a high value profession, which swung it for us.

When we arrived we were questioned extyensively and at length - and rightly so. We were, after all, asking to come and live in Canada, a country with which we have no direct connection and which owes us nothing.

We were unable to access public assitsnace of any kind for 3 months ( a modest amount of time in my opinion) and were not allowed to use the publc health service. We were expected to take out necessary insurance to cover us during this period and had to show that we were in poossesion of a suitable amount of monye on which to live for at least 6 months - roughly £80000 per person in their estimation.

Failure to do any of these things would have led to us being sent packing straight back where we came from.

Australia, NZ and America have similar, if not stricter rules.

We discovered many immigrants from developing countries who were quite simply playing the system - coming in on student visas and short term work visas and staying on.

Most took the view that even a dodgy job in Canada was better than life back home and most managed to finally becvome legal one way or another.
We on the other hand were expected to jump through hoops and pay large anmounts of money over an extended period.

This is because we were not willing to take the chances that the other immigrants did.

Let em assure you that UK immigrants do not get privileged status.

The End of Blue Labour? It never even started, outside of an attempt to find something that rhymed with "New" and that somehow there was a nascent, pragmatic part of Labour that was rising from the ashes of the Brown debacle. When actually all Glasman was doing was shamelessly aping Phillip Blond/Red Tory - plus trying to reach traditional areas of Labour lost to the party's bastard love-child, the ultra-left BNP.

One thing remains true; the Left tolerates neither debate nor challenge. That's why you'll be stuck in the sand again - as far as the electorate is concerned - for a long, long time to come. Good. Having watched you screw the country, it's a pleasure to sit back and watch you screw yourselves.

Blue Labour was just national socialism anyway, it's not new and it certainly isn't a loss that Labour have ditched it.

Glasman seems very egotistical and in some ways quite aggressive to other people when he's being interviewed.

Blue Labour has some very strong elements within its misunderstood platform.

Immigration is a contentious issue outside this metropolitan, Guardian reading, suburban community which is so cruelly slamming it.

Its not bigoted to want to protect ones community from mass immigration. Allowing eastern Europeans entry for the sole reason that they will work for lower pay is just wrong.

The anti-statism element is a response to the technocratic, omnipotent welfare state that grew under new Labour but did little to narrow income inequality.

Its time we listened to people like Glasman rather than brand him as some sort of resentful xenophobe.

Whoever dreamed up the label 'Blue Labour' is an idiot. Labour is Labour, and progressive.

Dave/Conservative,

"Asked by the Daily Telegraph's Mary Riddell whether he would support a total ban on immigration, even if just for a temporary period, Lord Glasman replied, "Yes" ".

...and socialist

Guy Debord and his ilk - prententious liberals - are incredibly damaging to real progressives. They fantasise about some sort of utopian world without borders without even comprehending the practical limitations.

As for the comaprisons with Jakarta, Cairo and Gaza - to "prove" that the UK is not overcrowded, well that really does demonstrate a race to the bottom.

Their argument seems to be that "London is not a total third world shithole yet, but let's carry on letting more and more people in to the country because of some sort of post colonial guilt trip. and anyway, people born and bred in the UK, you don't really have any special status as indigneous populations because we (1) don't like to concept and (2) we were nasty to other indigenous people with darker skins."

Bloody hell, they don't just make the Left unelectable, but their smug (and very misplaced) sense of moral superiority renders them incapable of recognising the stupidity of their positions.

So...how do we now get this creepy, random-signifier-listing pseud out of the house of lords?

We can't.

Thanks for the appointment, Ed. And thanks for the "reforms", Labour.

I think the open letter from the Children of Abraham says it all about the insidiousness and carelessness of Glasman's muddled outspokenness. The emergence of 'Blue Labour' thinking seemed to me to culminate in the appalling, tabloid-fed 'comeback speech' made by Ed Miliband recently, which for me was the final nail in the coffin of any hope for a leftwards reformation of Labour; what was particularly offensive about it was Miliband's quite two-faced criticism of an 'genuinely injured' family man on incapacity benefit whom he accused of not 'taking responsibility' etc. This whole tone wreaked of Glasman's empty rhetoric and repelled me so much that I then switched my allegiance to the Green Party. Miliband made the right call on the Murdoch issue; but that alone is not yet enough to win my vote back to Labour, nor those of many other socialists I know who have simply had enough of the party. Surely now that Murdoch's iron grip on UK politics has collapsed pretty much, Miliband can now distance himself from the last-ditched desperation of Glasman's 'Blue Labour' nonsense? The last thing the UK needs is yet another Tory party - remember, we had that effectively for 13 years under New Labour, bar some policies like the minimum wage. We don't need that or anything like it again! Glasman's sophistry is muddled and opportunistic. He had one or two interesting points perhaps, but they were overwhelmed by the right-wing claptrap regards welfare and immigration. And to openly appeal to the EDL votes is simply unconscionable of anyone associated with Labour to come out with. Labour needs to start remembering its better inheritances, egalitarianism and internationalism, and start standing up and creating its own public consensus through the zeal of evangelical socialism. Nothing more will do and the younger generation is more open than for decades to the sanity of democratic socialist dialectic. Glasman et al are intellectually lazy and just seem to want to get power back again at any price - but does he think the Labour Party would ever have got into Parliament in the first place without the sweat and grit of hard-won socialist proselytising epitomised by the original leader and visionary Keir Hardie? It's not about getting power back at any price, at any betrayal of principle - Blair already did that and look what a mess he left behind. We need true vision, and above all, guts, to stand up and say to the British people, No, this centre-right 'consensus' is ethically wrong and Labour is going to show why and how, as Miliband is beginning to say, 'the centre-ground has shifted'.
Goodbye Blue Labour I say; a poor dialectic and a laughable name beyond parody. The New Statesman also, frankly, has to take some responsibility here, since it has - along with the Guardian - short-sightedly leapt on the 'Blue Labour' bandwagon almost from day one and I note in this week's editorial there is still a worrying leaning towards some of Glasman's arguments; most worryingly of all, on welfare. Blue Labour shot itself in the foot from the offset: the true dialectic of our time is not about the 'undeserving poor' but about the undeserving rich: the bankers who have ruined our economy and the capitalist political classes who are doing their best to ruin the lives of millions in order to keep their casino-wheel spinning for future generations. |At a time when the welfare state is beginning blatantly dismantled before our eyes, Labour MUST rise up and defend it with all the zeal it has shown with the NHS and, latterly, against Murdoch's empire. Nothing else will do. Until such a time, my vote will be with the Greens (assuming, that is, that recent talk about some of their number becoming more capitalist-accommodating doesn't prove to be true!).

No swatantra nandanwar as long as Labour is home to Red Mary and WinniethePooh an Nilsey105 it will never regain power.

Robert Taggart, give it a rest you weren't funny or clever when you started stupidly mis-spelling labour so long ago and you are still not.

Sam, please explain to me the liberal, or progressive case why we need more immigration?

Also, please explain what the correct response whould be if people who live here already do not want any more arrivals?

You can refer in your answer to quality of life, urban sprawl, stone age beliefs transplanted without reference to the indigenous population and any other points you think are valid.

Alistair Cole - according to the right wing think tank The Adam Smith Institute immigration has benefited everyone by driving living standards & wages up. Would the white working class of whom you speak prefer to be working on a building site or wading across Morcambe bay picking cockles? In a call centre, or picking fruit into the early hours? Those thet have "come over here & taken our jobs" as the old mantra goes, have taken the shit jobs so we no longer have to do them, or where they're competing against us for skilled jobs, they've forced us to up our game, work harder & strengthen our economy thereby. Many immigrants that I know personally have come here with next to nothing & started businesses that have ended up employing a lot of us white working class types, including myself when I'd been on the dole for 2 years during the Thatcher years.