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Can talking make you better?

Simon Wessely

Published 01 May 2008

CBT does not cure cancer, schizophrenia or arthritis, but it does improve mood, coping and quality of life

Professor Ravetz is right. Cognitive behaviour therapy is Labour's new therapy of choice. But why is it suddenly popular in government circles not previously noted for their interest in psychological treatments?

Talking therapies are nothing new, but despite their long history many have struggled to prove themselves in a health service dominated by the economists. Psychoanalysis looks at deep-seated reasons for why we are the way we are - but even if it can answer questions about the human condition, it has not proved a success in treating specific disorders, and often takes years not doing so. In contrast, counselling is usually brief and cheap, but is sometimes not much more than sympathetic listening and empathy. Neither is much good when it comes to treating well-defined conditions such as panic disorder, phobias, obsessions and compulsions.

Cognitive behaviour therapy does represent a genuine advance in the treatment of many conditions. Unlike psychoanalysis it does not depend upon searching inquiries into childhood or early life, or speculative forays into the unconsciousness. CBT is about identifying conscious thoughts - thoughts about dying when having a panic attack, for instance, or about being useless when in the presence of other people. And then it is about how we react to these thoughts and how these behaviours in turn impact back on our thoughts and feelings. Perhaps I was in a road accident some years ago. Now I refuse to get into a car in case it happens again, and get tense and anxious even thinking about it. What I need is to identify my fearful thoughts, understand how they relate to my experiences, and then start a cautious programme of overcoming these fears by gradually spending more and more time in cars, as I learn that it is not inevitable that history will repeat itself. CBT is directive - it is not enough to be kind or supportive, although CBT therapists should be both - what is also needed is clarifying the thoughts which are determining our reactions and planning new behaviours as alternatives to these previously unsuccessful ways of coping or managing symptoms.

CBT has one further advantage over its predecessors. Because it is easier to describe, monitor and evaluate successes and failures, and because it deals in measurable outcomes, it lends itself to the empirical approach. And so there is now a wealth of evidence sufficient to satisfy even the most sceptical health economist that CBT can and does improve outcomes in various disorders.

Randomised controlled trials, which remain the gold standard of evidence, have shown that CBT is effective not just in the classic psychiatric disorders such as post-traumatic stress disorder, major depression, agoraphobia or schizophrenia, but also physical disorders such as cancer or rheumatoid arthritis, and even disorders such as irritable bowel syndrome or chronic fatigue syndrome that lie somewhere in between. Of course, CBT does not cure cancer, schizophrenia or arthritis, but it does improve mood, coping and quality of life.

CBT is not a panacea. And yes, it is trendy. Too trendy - since in the largely unregulated bear pit that are the psychotherapies virtually anyone can, and many do, claim to be carrying out CBT. To become a skilled CBT therapist takes about the same length of time as it does to become a doctor. That raises legitimate questions about the new "Improving Access to Psychological Therapies" initiative. Sometimes known as the Layard initiative, after the economist who has steered the scheme through government, this is intended to add 3,500 new CBT therapists to the NHS workforce.

A predecessor, the "Graduate Psychology Programme", which gave GPs access to psychology graduates who had not completed any clinical training and who became known colloquially as "barefoot psychologists", ran into difficulties since many GPs found that these willing but unskilled personnel lacked the experience and qualifications to make any meaningful impact. The Layard scheme has learned from the past, but will need to ensure that improving access is not at the expense of standards.

Finally, is this really a sly scheme simply to reduce the staggering costs of disability benefits? The answer is no, not directly. The aim is to give everyone who is suffering from clinical depression or an anxiety disorder the option of an effective psychological treatment, regardless of whether they are on benefits or not. However, if that also means that some are able to re-enter the world of work, then so much the better. If there is one thing that has been established by a generation of psychiatric research, it is the strong relationship that exists between mental health and unemployment.

Simon Wessely is head of the department of psychological medicine at the Institute of Psychiatry, King's College London

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20 comments from readers

Alison Ravetz
02 May 2008 at 08:57

I have a lot of respect for CBT when properly applied; my point is that a watered-down version of it applied by under-qualified people can easily do more harm than good. Space constraints made it impossible to say in my article that people on incapacity benefit that I have come across would love to return to work if only they were fit enough. If all the good things originally promised in the Pathways to Work programme were actually delivered, a proportion of claimants (nobody knows how many) could perhaps be enabled to do this. But this is very different from bullying them into work they are unable to sustain. Serious physical or psychological conditions cannot suddenly be made to disappear by political fiat.

Humble Life
02 May 2008 at 14:48

"X doesn't want to get better"

johannine
02 May 2008 at 15:14

no doudt a strong connection egsists between talking and health , its a funny thing [there is a plant that gets people talking [plus cures cancer] no kidding .

so it comes as no suprise that our leaders serving the multinational medical cartel and their lobby dont want no one curing cancer

so they declare war on it users curing many sicknesses with a plant , but govt and media been fooled [via lies and deciets] but im sure you have been told the lies and deceptions [but isnt it time to get real truth ?]

so you want to have a good talk and cure your cancer here is the not so secret recipie, its time people learned the truth

for those who cant handle the truth please note no one dies from cancer [its the ''cure'' that kills most people [plus 3 out of 4 people are just naturally able to supress cancer naturally]

but if your one in four try the link ,

and dont be blaming our leaders they been lied to as much as we all have , noting this plant has never caused a death

noting 2 in 100 have of the plants users develop phycosis [ BUT 4 in 100 NON smokers of the plant get phycosis] but no studdy going to tell you the truth, cause lawyers and cancer specialists are cleaning up from its prohibition

ps the brain studdy was conducted on chimps [seems they were taped into face masks then force fed the content of 30 joints for 5 minutes[noting oxegen satarvation caused the flawed science that led to that lie

all the other research has been rebutted [30 times stronger 'dope' is like saying this washing powder is brighter and whiter [its a lie [they have developed thc free cannabis [but 30 times stronger is out and out lie]

the gate way theory is because hemp has the affect of expanding your arteries [tthats the rush [and the red eyes[noting one puff on a joint has the same affect as as stroke medication [subsidised by our govt for millions of dollars each year]

a weed that can grow anywhere as well as treat arthritus and most skin disease [no wonder they dont want you knowing about this plant, no wonder they call a plant a drug [by legal lie]

any way start talking people

http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&frien...

ps read jacks emperor wears no clothes [its free at one of his links] so you know who and why the perpetrated this grand fraud on sick people for money

ramesh1
02 May 2008 at 17:52

C.B.T may profitable for minor psychological disorder. but for post traumatic stress disorder this therphy is useless.

Recent research telling us that childhood post traumatic stress diorder is uncurable you to suffer your whole life only you can sublime it. IT ARISE FROM GULT FEELING

DOSTOEVSKY was suffered from thid dease whole life he only sublimed it.

Jay
03 May 2008 at 00:37

the implicit elevation of CBT to something different and above other psychological therapies is a nonsense. all therapeutic approaches have made the connection between thoughts, feelings and behaviours .it's just that in CBT it's stated 'on the tin' so fund-providers and insurance companies can't miss it. a far better approach is to understand that because therapy deals more with individuals than symptoms per se then the best course is to provide the right therapy at the right time for all - a pluralistic approach - for anyone wanting to follow this argument in more detail google "Mick Cooper". CBT does work for some people some of the time - the tragedy could be that for those whom it leaves 'cold', a significant number, will miss out on any kind of therapy because of the success of the pr of the CBT lobbyists.

arthur
05 May 2008 at 00:26

Professor Wessely asks - 'is this really a sly scheme simply to reduce the staggering costs of disability benefits?' - and immediately provides a very straightforward and unambiguous confirmation that this is indeed precisely the case.

'The answer is no, not directly' - i.e. - the answer is yes, indirectly.

Professor Wessely's colleagues were directly - 'involved in developing guidelines for the Department of Health on the management of CFS for Occupational Health Physicians' - and were both directly and indirectly involved with a NICE guideline on CFS.

'One staff member' - has been - 'conducting workshops and lectures on the cognitive behavioural treatment (CBT) of CFS all over the UK' (RV5 Better treatments for Chronic Fatigue Syndrome - South London and Maudsley NHS Trust).

A 'key finding' of their NHS Plus guideline was that - 'Cognitive behavioural therapy and graded exercise therapy have been shown to be effective in restoring the ability to work in those who are currently absent from work'.

For their NHS Plus guideline they elected to mine SD Ross et al's ready-made review - "Disability and Chronic Fatigue Syndrome" - 'as the basis for [their] systematic review' .

While SD Ross et al. had already concluded (Arch Inter Med 2004) that - 'No specific interventions have been proved to be effective in restoring the ability to work' - Professor Wessely had also concluded ( JAMA 2001) that he and his colleagues' CBT and exercise ideas for 'CFS' were not 'remotely curative'.

The costs to the taxpayer must be simply 'staggering' as yet more experiments are carried out on members of public to 'prove that' - rather than 'evalute if' - CBT works for CFS (and everything else).

Meanwhile scientific research into the causes and cures of disease must inevitably suffer as a direct consequence.

After reviewing the 'best research' literature on the subject Professor William M Epstein provided direct insight into this disturbing social phenomena when he wrote in 2006 ('Psychotherapy as Religion' - Nevada University Press) that - 'CBT appears to be the favored contemporary choice of psychotherapy, eclipsing psychodynamic and behavioral treatments as American society intensifies its preference for personal responsibility over social responsibility, exaggerating an already exaggerated heroic individualism... for all its deficiencies, (CBT) has not inspired effective clinical practice... the best research offers no credible evidence of any successful psychotherapy for any condition. In just this way, both the theory and the practice of CBT are social languages, that is, "schemas" of social meaning, a Wittgenstein language-game, a universe of discourse. Failing as science, cognitive theory and cognitive-behavioral treatments become interesting as social phenomena of belief - it is fascinating to speculate why contemporary culture accepts the metaphysics of CBT rather than behavioral therapy or psychodynamic therapy, or for that matter Christian Science, colonic irrigation, or phrenology'.

leonardo
05 May 2008 at 13:00

'Randomised controlled trials, which remain the gold standard of evidence, have shown that CBT is effective not just in the classic psychiatric disorders such as post-traumatic stress disorder, major depression, agoraphobia or schizophrenia, but also physical disorders such as cancer or rheumatoid arthritis, and even disorders such as irritable bowel syndrome or chronic fatigue syndrome that lie somewhere in between. Of course, CBT does not cure cancer, schizophrenia or arthritis, but it does improve mood, coping and quality of life.'

This is the bit which I find of great concern. If the author could clearly explain the organic nature of Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and then explain how CBT is useful for those people who are unfortunate enough to be diagnosed with it then I think I would be more convinced that he really knows what he is talking about. As it is the NICE diagnostic criteria are so 'wishy washy' that I suspect there will be many more people who will die of ME/CFS as poor Sophia Mirza did-with or without a dose of CBT. I really do feel that we need to be a bit more scientific.

vioxx
06 May 2008 at 09:46

"Geneticists have identified a biological basis for seven different subtypes of chronic fatigue syndrome. The researchers from St George's Hospital, University of London, hope the work could lead to a blood test to distinguish between the forms. Campaigners hope it will help counter the opinion, which remains in some quarters of the medical profession, that it is a psychological condition."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7378440.stm

tomakin
06 May 2008 at 23:18

It may surprise Prof Wessely to learn that humans are pretty intelligent, have been around for quite a number of years, and know how to 'cope' and respect what 'mood' and 'fear' tells them without 'expert' interference (interpretation) and the superficial Cock & Bull Theories of CBT.

In the real world people tend to get into their cars and drive again.

They're not quite as dumb as the Professor would like others to think, sitting around 'identifying conscious thoughts' (or unconscious thoughts) planning 'cautious programmes' etc. etc.

They get into their cars and drive.

There's a difference between what's 'well-defined' and what's well understood, and if there was any plausible relationship between CBTheories and 'well defined conditions', the 'classic psychiatric disorders' and 'even disorders such as', which are neither mental nor physical, there would be no need for any further medical research.

It would be fascinating to learn how the closet dualists of CBT think the mind affects the body, without invoking pan-pyschism or whatever's the latest wheeze.

Interesting 'choice' of word though - 'sly'.

leonardo
07 May 2008 at 07:24

Does anyone think a 'talking-cure' would have helped the late Sophia Mirza (www.sophiaandme.org.uk) because as she'd been diagnosed with M.E. that's the only kind of 'management strategy (along with a bit of graded exercise) she would have been offered. It is unlikely that the current NICE guidelines would have helped the medical profession to discover the true cause of her illness.

vioxx
07 May 2008 at 11:37

My post of yesterday, detailing Wessely's association with PRISMA Health, has been pulled. PRISMA is the private corporation employed by New Labour to 'offer' CBT packages to disability claimants. In case the post was pulled inadvertently, or because the supporting link was deemed poor quality, I'm reposting with a link to the same information in Lords Hansard, Myalgic Encephalomyelitis Debate, 22 Jan 2004.

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld200304/ldhansrd/v...

Countess of Mar: "Wessely school psychiatrists are about to receive £11.1 million, including £2.6 million from the Medical Research Council, in an attempt to strengthen the weak evidence that his regime actually works for those with ME. Among his 53, largely undeclared, interests it should be noted that he is a member of the supervisory board of a company, PRISMA, that is supplying such rehabilitation programmes as CBT to the NHS for those with ME, even though such regimes have been widely shown, at their best, to be of limited and short-lasting benefit and, more importantly, at their worst, to be actively harmful to those with the disorder."

archiecoch
07 May 2008 at 14:55

Professor Simon Wessely of the Institute of Psychiatry claims that 'randomised controlled trials' remain 'the gold standard of evidence' but doesn't mention that this strong statement can only truly be the case where trials are placebo controlled, properly blinded and properly randomised.

Even then, the results cannot be generalised completely, and may even apply only to the trial subjects under the particular trial conditions, and not to the population at large.

There seems to some confusion about the nature of RCTs at the Institute of Psychiatry.

Writing about his own and others’ CBT 'trials', Professor Wessely's colleagues at the Institute of Psychiatry, Professor Trudie Chalder and Dr Mary Burgess, CBT therapists who are pivotally involved alongside Prof Wessely in a repetitive, redundant, unblinded non-randomised (in the true sense) non-placebo-controlled CBT 'trial' at the taxpayers vast expense (PACE - funded by the Department of Work and Pensions & MRC), claimed about the trials apparently underwriting and justifying the PACE trial, in their 2005 book "Overcoming Chronic Fatigue" :

"The effectiveness of CBT in treating CFS has been evaluated in three well-conducted research studies undertaken since the 1990s. All three were conducted as randomized controlled trials; that is, trials in which there are more than one treatment group, and participating patients DO NOT KNOW which group they are in. CBT was found to produce better results than the other treatments with which they were compared."

How could participating patients NOT know which group they are in, and why would CBT therapists Prof Chalder and Dr Burgess make such a claim about trials, comprehensively slated by knowledgeable professionals in various journals, about a situation where there are in fact no ‘other treatments’ ?

It's surely problematic enough in real medical research where there's enough biological variability to skew results rendering them invalid, even with double blinding, proper randomisation and placebo controls, but the problems must become insuperable, if not intractable, where these RCT requirements are ignored in a situation where there's no objective measures, no clean diagnosis, a reliance on the treacherous self-reports of subjects glad of some, if not the only attention they’ve ever had, vulnerable subjects who can be easily manipulated no matter how unintentionally, and an extraordinary pressure on the trialists and hence participants to get the results the DWP obviously want, from a trial costing the taxpayer millions.

Worse , the trialists have already decided what the results of this 'trial' will be in advance (see NHS Plus).

Of course, fatigue is a signal that something is wrong and logic dictates you find what’s wrong and treat that, not the signal there’s something wrong. There are no strawberry shortcuts, whatever the DWP hope.

Gold standard?

vioxx
07 May 2008 at 19:55

Gold standard? £11.1 million.

FisherLady
07 May 2008 at 20:52

"archiecoch" wrote about the PACE trial's lack of credibility.

What about the mountain of uncontrollables and uncontrolled for

variables being swept under the grubby middle aged DWP carpets of this

seeming CBT show trial?

There are no plausible mechanisms you can check and nothing being

objectively measured. It's worse than trials in homeopathy or astrology.

The PACE trial is bound by the Helsinki Agreement and requires "fully"

informed consent, in addition to participants fully understanding the

implications and "aims" of the trial.

Fully informed consent including a complete understanding of the trial's

implications could not have been sought, otherwise there would be no

trial participants and no trial, obviously.

Jonathan Rutherford's article "New Labour, the market state, and the end

of welfare" contains important information about the "aims" of some of

the people who have "designed" and are now running this trial (Sharpe M,

Wessely S and Aylward M)

http://www.lwbooks.co.uk/journals/articles/rutherford07.html

I guess one would really have to figure out who was on the ethics

committee, how well informed and exactly how independent they actually were.

It should really be very thoroughly and independently investigated by

the appropriate international authorities.

Otherwise it's a predetermined Pyhrric victory for the aficionados of

CBT for "CFS" (the M.E deniers), and a huge loss to society as more

research money goes down the drain and a quarter of a million people

affected by M.E. in this country are condemned to remaining physically

ill every day of their lives, often very severely.

KSeay
08 May 2008 at 07:23

Florence Nightingale had M.E./CFS, or something indistinguishable from them - perhaps Brucellosis.

Nobody accuses her of faking.

The cost to society of not having a cure for M.E./CFS is incalculable, but I have seen it estimated at 23 BILLION Dollars.. The cost to the UK taxpayer of Wessely's chat plans so far has been over eleven million pounds. We need a CURE for M.E./C.F.S and related illnesses - not CHAT.

Whitewash
08 May 2008 at 16:27

Interestingly enough, the lead investigator of the PACE trial, a Proffessor Peter White, spoke on You and Yours recently.

He said; "Like many, many illnesses if I have something going on in my brain, such as thinking at the moment, that is a physical process happening in my brain and therefore if I have a feeling or a thought it is physical, it's not entirely psychological".

A kind of NewLabour's Freudian slip.

The "something going on" in his brain he likens to "many illnesses".

He seems to suspect, albeit unconsciously, that his thoughts are a bit diseased.

Feelings and thoughts are psychological but mainly physical, he infers, out of convenience, trying to publicly avoid suggestions that he thinks ME is psychological and his methods are psychological, both of which are the case of course.

But you can typically have a physical thought and a psychological feeling, as you do !

Take your pick, follow your whim, or in this case, the money.

You wouldn't fly in an aircraft with a pilot exhibiting this degree of confusion.

But then they tend to have regular check ups of both body and mind.

vioxx
08 May 2008 at 19:43

Imagine we couldn't distinguish breathlessness caused by TB, pleurisy, pneumonia, bronchial asthma, or cardiac asthma, from breathlessness caused by hayfever, anxiety, or overexertion. Instead a prominent professor ridiculed and prevented research into the real differences between the types of breathlessness. He got everyone to adopt the name Chronic Breathlessness Syndrome. He claimed breathlessness was a social construct. Sufferers heard about breathlessness and then simulated it to get attention, or benefits. It was correct to depise them. Only crude folk beliefs based on mind-body dualism and an outdated 'medical model' of illness prevented everyone from agreeing that his psychological treatment was a cure for breathlessness. After all, some of the time some of the breathless patients seemed to recover after CBT.

As physical tests for ME including its severe forms become available, I genuinely hope patients will be successful in bringing to account the IoP, RCP, RSM, GMC, NICE and the rest for wilful obstruction of scientific knowledge.

leonardo
08 May 2008 at 21:12

vioxx, Thank you so much for bringing up the subject of breathlessness. I know someone who had a long history of high blood pressure, had had a minor stroke and when she went to her G.P. with BREATHLESSNESS, was offered counselling, another psychological management therapy, and shortly afterwards died of multiple blood clots on the lungs. C'est la mort etc.

vioxx
09 May 2008 at 09:11

`I don't know what you mean by "gold standard",' Alice said.

Humpty Dumpty smiled contemptuously. `Of course you don't - till I tell you. I meant "a reward for helping the DWP save money!"'

`But "gold standard" doesn't mean "a reward for helping the DWP save money",' Alice objected.

`When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, `it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less.'

`The question is,' said Alice, `whether you can make words mean so many different things.'

`The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, `which is to be master - that's all.'

vioxx
09 May 2008 at 13:22

leonardo, I'd forgotten that when I was 9 or 10 my mum told the GP she had started getting a return of her childhood bronchial asthma while at work. He couldn't find a thing wrong while she was in the surgery and didn't believe she knew what asthma was. He prescribed tranquilizers - more than once, which she treated with the contempt it deserved. She carried on, wheezing while at work, and increasingly at home. One day she collapsed, and I had to ring 999. She was whisked off to hospital and diagnosed with status asthmaticus - potentially fatal asthma that doesn't respond to usual treatment of bronchodilators and steroids. She was close to death, they told us. She always carried an inhaler after that, because it turned out she had become allergic to the guinea pigs in the biology lab at her school. Thank god for the 'medical model', but not for delusional psychiatrists and their 'false illness beliefs'.

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