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Now, not later

Chris Ames

Published 25 March 2008

Gordon Brown should announce a credible inquiry into the Iraq war before he is forced into one

As the Opposition tries Tuesday to force an immediate inquiry into the Iraq war, MPs from all sides have told Gordon Brown that he cannot delay indefinitely.

Although it appears unlikely that the Tories will win the House of Commons vote on the issue, Labour MPs have warned that the prime minister must take the initiative and announce a credible inquiry before he is forced to do so.

Last week, Brown stated that an inquiry will take place eventually, although the government maintains that this would be an unnecessary distraction while British troops remain in Iraq.

In recent weeks the government has played down expectations of a cut in troop numbers from 4,100 to about 2,500 ‘in the spring’, announced by Brown in October. With heavy fighting reported from Basra on Tuesday morning, a full withdrawal – and therefore the promised inquiry – could be a long way off.

Nonetheless, the Conservatives will use Tuesday's opposition day debate to push for an immediate inquiry by privy councillors into the origins and conduct of the war, based on the Franks inquiry into the Falklands conflict.

It would draw on ‘senior military and diplomatic figures’ and, while it would publish its conclusions, it would take some evidence in secret. William Hague, shadow foreign secretary this morning used a series of interviews to appeal for the support of anti-war Labour MPs but made clear that he still backed the decision to invade Iraq.

While some Labour rebels will vote with the Tories, they are unlikely to do so in sufficient numbers to defeat the government. Many see it as a ‘tribal’ issue, particularly given the Tories’ support for the war. But some have made clear that they have concerns over the ability of the Tory model to get to the truth and would in different circumstances support a full public inquiry. They warn that Brown may soon reach a ‘tipping point’ where a vote for an inquiry will succeed and that he cannot expect to kick the issue into touch ‘until the last soldier is home'.

The Liberal Democrats, who last week tabled parliamentary bills to force an inquiry, will vote for the Tory proposal, although it does not go as far as they would like. They are also critical of the Tories ‘bizarre’ position and have tabled an amendment calling for Labour and Tory MPs who voted for war to apologise. Ed Davey MP, their foreign affairs spokesman, described the Tory position as ‘like Ronnie Biggs wanting an inquiry into the Great Train Robbery.’

Labour MP Andrew Mackinlay, who voted for the war, told the New Statesman last night that the case for a full independent inquiry was ‘compelling’. Although he will vote with the government today, he argues that it would be better for Brown to call an inquiry on his own initiative than lose control of the issue.

But he added, ‘Any inquiry will be a sham unless you have the same ground rules as in the US Congress, with witnesses on oath and prison as a possible sanction. Being on oath protects people who might otherwise be pressured not to tell the truth.’

Mackinlay was a member of the 2003 House of Commons Foreign Affairs Committee (FAC) inquiry into the decision to go to war and remains on the Committee. Like Davey, he disputes the government’s reliance on four previous inquiries (the FAC, the Intelligence and Security Committee and the Hutton and Butler reports). Although best known for his questioning of the late Dr. David Kelly, he was the only Labour member to oppose the FAC report that cleared the government misleading the country and parliament in the run-up to war. He complained at the time that the government had frustrated and obstructed the Committee.

Lynne Jones MP, a long-term opponent of the war, indicated that she would support an immediate inquiry if it was in public and ‘not packed with establishment figures’. She told the New Statesman ‘It would be worse to set up an inadequate enquiry than none at all as it would be used as an excuse to preclude a full public inquiry later.’

Last month the government was forced to publish the first draft of the September 2002 dossier on Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction, written by a government spin doctor. The ‘Williams draft’ revealed that claims that were presented in the published dossier as the ‘judgements’ of the Joint Intelligence Committee were originated by John Williams, press secretary at the Foreign Office.

None of the four previous inquiries made any reference to Williams’ involvement in drafting the dossier.

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14 comments from readers

BlairSupporter
25 March 2008 at 10:49

What a waste of politically motivated time. When is enough enough in this Iraq war inquiries business? How many more do we need to prove that we were not bulldozed by 'lies' into it?

The anti Blair/anti-Iraq war people lost - and they will do anything to prove they shouldn't have. Tough. Get used to it.

antileft
25 March 2008 at 11:07

Mr Blair supporter- you really are quite an idiot arent you? "Get used to it"?! Why should anyone "get used to" something which has cost the lives of thousands of Iraqi civilians?! What is needed is a good period of auto-critique, and ideally the arrest of the pillock who took us there. Britain and America need to contemplate what happened in order to make sure that we dont go to war FOR NO REASON again, or we ll end up with Vietnam/Iraq repeated time and again.

Here's a question for you- why did we go to war? Any idea? Id seriously love to hear a good reason. Because if there wasnt one, of course at the very least a serious period of reflection is necessary.

BlairSupporter
25 March 2008 at 14:28

Get used, you fool, to the fact that you have LOST the argument. I know it's difficult for such as you to see things as they are, but THAT'S what I said.

Are you about to fight all the wars we've ever been engaged in on the basis that people died, so therefore we shouldn't have bothered? Or is it only if you have ALL the reasons explained to YOUR satisfaction that it's fine - defence of the realm?

We went to war because we believed - in common with every major world authority, including the UN - that Saddam had WMDs. I'm still not convinced that the intelligence was wrong. He had months, years even to dispose of them.

He had used WMDs on his own people - the Kurds and in the Iran/Iraq war.

Apart from that he had killed tens of thousands of Iraqis over his 30 year dictatorship and he continued to ignore repeated UN Security Council resolutions.

There were MANY reasons we went to war. The one provided may not have been the best one, arguably, but we should understand that it was NOT the only reason that could have been used.

(One at a time is the best we can hope that simple minds can deal with. It gets complicated when you try to explain complexities and international relationships and any future threats that might emanate from such.)

"...the arrest ..."

I suggest we arrest those who constantly betray western interests. They're here, within our midst.

antileft
25 March 2008 at 15:05

"We went to war because we believed - in common with every major world authority, including the UN - that Saddam had WMDs."

One second, who's "we"?! One hell of a lot of people didnt believe that he had anything that was a serious threat, and you know what? After being completely unable to find them, it has been proved quite clearly that he didnt have any. Therefor, you were wrong, and we were right. This is clear. It's accepted. You should get over it. Get used, you fool, to the fact that you have LOST the argument.

"He had used WMDs on his own people - the Kurds and in the Iran/Iraq war."

One second- we sold him those weapons and supported him during the Iran/Iraq war!!! Doesnt that count?! You cant miss out that fact like it doesnt matter!!! He was doing what we wanted him to do!!! Oh dear- what a lame arguement!!! Youre saying Saddam was bad because he did what we wanted him to do. Not very bright, are ya?!

As for gassing kurds- the Turks have commited some terrible attrocities far later than the last time Saddam did so. And the kurds have nothing to do with it anyway- if the plan was to stop him gassing kurds, they would have done so much earlier. Therefor, saving the kurds is an excuse, believed only by naive idiots like yourself.

"Apart from that he had killed tens of thousands of Iraqis over his 30 year dictatorship and he continued to ignore repeated UN Security Council resolutions."

But we went against security council wishes in going to war! You cant claim this is some kind of war to support the UN!!! That's just silly. And this is a war which is in the process of killing far more Iraqis than Saddam could have imagined in his wildest dreams. In some months, the number of dead has been similar to the number killed on September 11th.

So, you still havent given me any good reasons for the invasion. Maybe, dearest naive blair supporter, you should know better? As for "winning the argument"- it's clear that you have lost it. Even the majority of Americans now think that the war was a mistake. Youve lost the argument. Get over it.

antileft
25 March 2008 at 15:53

To continue with what I was saying above, another thing about this MORONIC wmd argument. At the time of the invasion, the two biggest weapons exporters were America and Britain, and the biggest weapons importer was Saudi Arabia- one of the most repressive, islamic, undemocratic governments in the world. Britain sold 400,000,000 dollars worth of weapons to Africa in that year alone (from my memory- correct me if Im wrong). Youd have to be a real idiot to say that secular Saddam, with his piddly little economy and pathetic army was the problem here. BlairSupporter?

BlairSupporter
25 March 2008 at 18:15

If you want to play semantics with me, go ahead, but try using your own words. And try making sure you're not contradicting your own words. It doesn't add to your credibility.

POINT BY POINT - to make it easy for you.

1. YOU posed this question:

"Here's a question for you- why did we go to war?"

My answer - You referred to "we", so I replied in the first person plural. Don't cast aspersions on THAT too.

-------------------------------------------------------

You then replied:

"One second, who's "we"?! One hell of a lot of people didnt believe that he had anything that was a serious threat, and you know what? After being completely unable to find them, it has been proved quite clearly that he didnt have any."

My answer - "we" is our government. Understand? Or are you implying that our government is NOT entitled to make important decisions unless the rest of us (we) say they can?

2. You say: "One hell of a lot of people didnt believe ..."

My answer - So? Your point is what? That these unbelievers KNEW something the rest of us didn't? They"knew" no more than anyone else "knew" and a lot less than governments or security services. The intelligence services from major world powers had evidence which led to their beliefs (whether proven right yet or not). Who should governments believe? The anti-war peace-lovers, see-no-evil people? Or the intelligence people from around the world?

You KNEW nothing - you just hoped and expected and trusted and believed. You spent no time in the sands of Iraq, so you KNEW nothing.

------------------------------------------------------------------

3. You said:

"One second- we sold him those weapons and supported him during the Iran/Iraq war!!! Doesnt that count?! You cant miss out that fact like it doesnt matter!!! "

My answer - that is EXACTLY the position and always has been.

In international politics we have no "forever" friends, few allies, only threats and opportunities. Get real.

And during the Iran/Iraq war when Saddam used WMDs, the west used a dual containment approach in the hope that they would sort it out themselves. Since 1998 the feud has been ongoing, at times under the surface.

------------------------------------------------------------

4. You said:

"... gassing kurds- the Turks have commited some terrible attrocities far later than the last time Saddam did so. And the kurds have nothing to do with it anyway- if the plan was to stop him gassing kurds, they would have done so much earlier. Therefor, saving the kurds is an excuse, believed only by naive idiots..."

My answer: (btw, are you being deliberately obtuse here? I find it hard to believe you don't get it. It's not rocket science.)

The reference was NOT to saving the Kurds. They were already dead! The reference was to the EVIDENCE from their deaths that Saddam had used chemical weapons, even on people within Iraq. Isn't it just possible he might have used them outside of Iraq again, as in Iran?

--------------------------------------------------------------

5. You said:

"But we went against security council wishes in going to war! "

My answer:

Ah - but DID we? On that depends the 'legality' issue, and there are different views as to whether an earlier SC resolution was sufficient. Since we in the coalition and the UN would have been content if Saddam had bothered to obey just ONE of the SC resolutions, and not just the LAST one he was given, the same should apply in 'going to war' without a new SC resolution. Or do you think Bush and Blair are more evil than Saddam?

Better brains than ours are still struggling with the legality issue. But if "intent" enters into the equation, as it does in murder/manslaughter then the intent was not to kill thousands of people. As well as that, the actual "war" was over in just over one month when thousands had not yet died! We've been 'keeping the peace' since then under UN mandate. And it has been constantly thwarted by insurgents. The same insurgents who are blowing up people weekly, even daily. And probably 99% of them AFTER the 'ending' of the war, May 2003.

---------------------------------------------------------

6. As to your reference to Saudi Arabia - see above - on friends/allies/threats/opportunities.

---------------------------------------------------------

7. Exporting arms to Africa?

There's a chance that by exporting to them we may manage to contain their use, and keep them on our side. Of course we could always refuse to export arms to ANYONE, just in case. That'd be as good for the economy as your inaction would be for world peace and international balance and relations.

I suppose we could always leave all arms supply to Russia, China and Iran.

That's a good idea. Is it not?

Complex, isn't it?

No?

Didn't think you'd be up to recognising 'complex'.

antileft
26 March 2008 at 02:55

My word BlairSupporter you really are an idiot! No wonder you backed this silly war.

"Or are you implying that our government is NOT entitled to make important decisions unless the rest of us (we) say they can?"

Of course it's not about us "saying" that it can! It's about the government doing what we want it to do, or at least what is in our best interests! And removing the only secular leader from the middle east and replacing it with an Iranian proxy is hardly in our interests! Youd have to be a real idiot to still not see this.

"So? Your point is what? That these unbelievers KNEW something the rest of us didn't?"

No, the point is that these "unbelievers" (very religious word by the way- Im sure youre a religious nutcase aswell who thinks god is on our side) rightly didnt believe that saddam had anything that could threaten us. Why? Because its OBVIOUS! Look at it- he was a pathetic dictator who was having problems even running the place!!! Obviously, if you want to look at somewhere that HAS real weapons that can cause us problems, the correct target is North Korea. Only an idiot would compare Saddam and North Korea and say "Saddam is the threat". You dont have to work for the government to be able to see that!

Here's a way to be sure that Saddam wasnt a threat- if he was one, we wouldnt have attacked him, would we?! Look at North Korea- a threat, so we take the diplomatic approach. Youd have to be a complete idiot not to see that. All of which makes this statement "You KNEW nothing" Look rather silly. We all had common sense enough to see he was no serious threat- except a few idiots like yourself and Blair. No weapons were found, so you have been clearly prooved wrong. Again, in the words of a certain pillock: Get used, you fool, to the fact that you have LOST the argument.

"In international politics we have no "forever" friends, few allies, only threats and opportunities. Get real."

Right. So, we can sell weapons to whoever we want, and then later invade them for having those weapons?! Nice logic, idiot! No wonder your side was dumb enough to go after Saddam instead of Bin Laden (who we also sold weapons to and funded... Whoops)! It's just a case of 'we sell them our old weapons and use the new ones on them'. Hey, you seem to think this is somehow "practical" and so no morality is needed but then... You also use silly little moral arguments, like bringing up the kurds. What a load of merry bulls**t. It's pathetic the way that your side switches between "moral" and "practical" with such ease.

"Isn't it just possible he might have used them outside of Iraq again, as in Iran?"

Of course- and its much more likely that he would use his pathetic little weapons if we invaded. But hes hardly a serious threat is he?! And I repeat the main issue here which is that most of his weapons came from us! And I also repeat that I have been prooved right and you have been prooved wrong by the fact that no weapons have been found. You misread the situation by believing Blairs lies. That is clear and spelt out by the facts. Get used, you fool, to the fact that you have LOST the argument.

"Better brains than ours are still struggling with the legality issue."

So one second- the fact that this is borderline illegal is a good thing?! What kind of an argument is that?!

As you well know, when France and Russia are saying theyll veto any new resolution authorising war, you cant say youre doing in the name of the UN. Its nonsense and you should know better.

"There's a chance that by exporting to them we may manage to contain their use, and keep them on our side."

But when you export weapons to people like Saddam, you at least have to agree to the idea that you arent going to later invade him just because he then has those weapons can you?! What kind of flimsy damn argument is that?! Silly, Blairite logic. My god what an idiot you are. Typical Blair supporter. [comment deleted by administrator]

craigknott
26 March 2008 at 17:27

Nice to see that those involved in this debate are acting as mature as ever.

antileft
27 March 2008 at 03:49

^^And nice to see that as always, a lot of people arent quite bright enough to have anything to say, but will give it a shot anyway.

TheElitesWin
27 March 2008 at 09:01

Just to put my nose in.

(1) America forcibly told numerous UN countries to support America, and if they didn't they would have sanctions imposed on them

(2) England was eventually brought into the war by the London underground bombings, which was an inside job if you researched into the matter.

(3) Tony Blair is a 33 Degree freemason and part of the illuminatti conspirators.

(4) He supposedly attended Yale University for lectures into faith (Just so happened to be the Skull & Bones head quarters). No media attention about that.

Anyway, his surname should tell you at lot B…..Lair.

antileft
27 March 2008 at 10:07

TheElitesWin, why oh why do you have to screw up a perfectly good anti-Iraq war debate with all the childish silliness about "illuminatti conspirators"?! Those are the lizard men who are out to take over the world, right?! Oh yes, they were the ones who blew up the london underground... Sure, absolutely. What an amusingly ridiculous conspiracy theory.

ingo
30 March 2008 at 10:28

The armtwisting and despicable behaviour of the US at the UN in 2002, to oust the Brazilian diplomat Jose Maurizio Bustani from the OPCW, at a time when he was just about to sign up Saddam to the chemical weapons ban, is the real crux of the matter.

It proves clearly that the war was planned long ago.

Further the lack of planning for it made it obvious that the likes of Cheney, Rumslfed and Bush had no intentions whatsoever to rebuild and prepare a country for freedom democracy and Liberty.

Indeed these words have been negated as much as the Human rights act by these criminals, they should be brought to international justice.

But hang on, thats another issue, the US does not think it fit to bring any of their soldiers or warmongers to justice, rebirth of the Leviathan springs to mind in this context.

Talks on the peacefull use of space, abandoned. Talks to stop the militarisation of space, the last global common, abandonded. Pre emtive strike doctrin, not just for conventional, not they have given themselves the right to use nuclear, if and when this mal administration sees fit.

Sorry everyone to have to listen to some of these deluded history changers trying to justify which is unjustaifiable, they are living on cloud nine and they got used to it. nevermind

ingo
30 March 2008 at 10:32

Regards Mr. Bustani's work, there are not many diplomats that are able to create such support within seven years, signing up some 134 countries to this treaty. All those that say he was useless are liars and international antisocial elements hell bent on destroying the future for our children in favor of small minded vested interests.

Since he left, nomore than office politics has entered the mind of the OPCW, its been sidelined by US corruptive practises and smears. nevermind, fathers of this world unite.

jamesbt20
06 April 2008 at 16:38

Blair Supporter...... how much do u get paid for writing your nonsense? No real person would come off with what your putting out here in detail!! you are an obvious shill..........

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