Bright's Blog

35 comments from readers

redharry
28 February 2008 at 14:09

So Martin, how does the warmongering, fascist coup supporting, member of the neo-comservative Hernry Jackson Society, Denis MacShane make it onto the left list?

I suppose this how you justify calling your friends at the neo-comservative Policy Exchange think tank, 'Centre-Right'?

(What happened to their libel writ against Newsnight?)

Finally isn't the whole concept of 'insiders' completely elitist and contemptuous of the millions of us who are on the outside looking in with disgust?

BegbiesEvilTwin
28 February 2008 at 19:13

A bit of an odd selection for the centre left contingent. Government loyalist and establishment types who have lost their way mainly. Some of the centre right names are in practice slightly to the left of Martin's list.

Redharry's entirely correct about MacShane. He also wears those nasty green Houses of Parliament braces. Definitely the sign of a deviant.

Peter Nolan
28 February 2008 at 22:33

I look forward to seeing the results.

knave
29 February 2008 at 14:07

In brief, I will be recruiting on the left and Tim on the right

Martin why are you picking the lefties. Should it not be other way round Tim as he is more a of leftist than you. I cannot see one idea that differentiates you from say Micheal Gove.

harold53
29 February 2008 at 22:13

I think there should be someone picking from the centre so we get some people on the left. if Charles Clarke is on the left, I'd hate to see some of the right.

Any bookies out there? What odds are on offer on the left panel to include any of Jeremy Corbyn, John McDonnell, Mark Serwotka, Billy Hayes, Claire Short, Tariq Ramaddan, Dianne Abbott, Ann Pettifor, Tariq Ali, Colin Burgon, John Pilger, Hilary Wainwright, even Austin Mitchell?

Perhaps Mr Bright would define left and right as we are simple people out here and can easily be confused.

BegbiesEvilTwin
29 February 2008 at 22:18

Hey Martin,

Just got round to reading page 8. Best of luck in the awards. I can't think on a person more deserving of it.

knave
01 March 2008 at 09:23

harold53 you are correct. They all seem to be part of that strange specis called the "decent left.". Most of them are members of the pseudo left PEU network. Not one person on Martins list could differentiate themselves from say Charles Moore or Michael Gove.

BegbiesEvilTwin
01 March 2008 at 18:39

Another point has to be made here. The political insiders can't really in all fairness be described as being on any part of the left be it centre, soft or otherwise. If you look at their voting records on TheyWorkForYou they are comparable with traditional Conservative MP's. In a sense that could be seen as unfair as each have had roles within the machinery of Government and thereby had to vote accordingly. That proposition is somewhat invalid because if someone votes in accord with Conservative policies over a long period they have decided that these policies are more important to them (even in it's most Machiavellian sense) than any other value system.

Look at Ian Austin voted on key issues since 2001 on They Work For You:

* Has never voted on a transparent Parliament.

* Voted very strongly for introducing a smoking ban.

* Voted very strongly for introducing ID cards.

* Voted very strongly for Labour's anti-terrorism laws.

* Voted very strongly against investigating the Iraq war.

* Voted very strongly for replacing Trident.

* Voted very strongly for equal gay rights.

These are fairly similar to the other MP's on the list. Apart from smoking and gay rights each of the MP's records aren't really centre left.

I would have thought the other items listed above would have disqualified him from being involved in this as they run contra to the issues that the NS has been vigorously challenging the Brown/Blair governments for some considerable time.

Let's not forget that Ian and Tom are hardcore tribal Brownites. They're not going to do anything that runs contra to the party line. At best all you can expect from them is to hobble it.

If I had more time I would organise my own version of this with upcoming people who have genuine talent.

Martin Bright
03 March 2008 at 13:55

Some good points made here. I take harold53's comments on board, although describing the totalitarian Islamist Tariq Ramadan as left-wing rather undermines your argument.

Those named so far clearly do not make up the whole list of 100, which, rest assured, will contain some people to the left of the MPs named so far.

BegbiesEvilTwin should wait for the final list of 100 before passing final judgement.

BegbiesEvilTwin
03 March 2008 at 15:53

It's only a reaction to the information supplied. I don't have any problem about being somewhat robust but I sincerely hope I'm not being unfair to anyone.

Speaking about which a couple of years ago I read an interview with Tariq Ramadan in either The New Republic or Salon.com and it was more moderate than anything you could have read from even the most liberal of Anglican priests.

Serosch
03 March 2008 at 16:50

'describing the totalitarian Islamist Tariq Ramadan as left-wing rather undermines your argument.'

Mr Bright you really do talk a load of rubbish, you who are a card carrying, t-shirt wearing paid up member of the Zionist brigade, who engages in the incitement of religious hatred against Muslims on a daily basis, who shares along with your fellow lunatics in the belief that there should be Jewish control from the Euphrates to the Nile, and you have the audacity to point the finger at Mr Ramdan.

BegbiesEvilTwin
03 March 2008 at 17:09

Serosch, can you provide evidence of this? My reading of Martin's work is to the contrary. As far as I can recall he, like the NS in general, has questioned and challenged Islamists but never Islam or muslims.

BegbiesEvilTwin
03 March 2008 at 17:27

To be perfectly frank Serosch your remarks are such a bad parody of a paranoid overpoliticised loon I'm inclined to think you're merely a sockpupppet.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sockpuppet_%28Internet%29

Serosch
04 March 2008 at 08:40

Bright is a Zionist, just as Nick Cohen and Mad Mel Phillips are.

The stated aim of Zionists is to propogate Jewish control of the lands between the Euphrates and the Nile, and as those lands are currently held by Muslims, it is Muslims that Bright and his fellow loons attack.

BegbiesEvilTwin, You’re probably one of those Zionist clones which made their presence felt on websites at the time of the Zionist rampage in Lebanon.

Serosch
04 March 2008 at 08:44

BegbiesEvilTwin, how's you Mossad supplied software working. You'll be needing it again soon as the Zionists are on the rampage again, this time in Gaza.

Martin Bright
04 March 2008 at 11:48

Ramadan is an interesting cove. I've met him a couple of times and been on a panel with him. He is perfectly reasonable in debate until the subject turns to Hamas. He is a rather eloquent advert for dialogue with radical Islam, but I fear this is the whole point.

BegbiesEvilTwin
04 March 2008 at 12:35

Serosch: From what I've observed of Phillips and Cohen they seem more differing flavours of sad reactionary neocon fogeys but Zionists? I haven't seen it in any of their writings/talks. Nor have I seen it with Bright (who doesn't seem like a sad reactionary neocon either).

Martin: Interesting.

Serosch
04 March 2008 at 12:48

BegbiesEvilTwin –

I personally believe you to be a Mossad recruited Zionist drone, however if you aren’t then you must be extremely naïve not to consider Bright, Cohen, and Phillips as anything other than Zionist lunatics who want to see the middle east in flames.

knave
04 March 2008 at 17:09

It is interesting that Martin mentioned Hamas.Wasn't this the organisation which was helped up in it's setting up by Mossad and Reaganites like Bright to marginalise the more secular Fatah. Facts that

Martin does seem to mention. Strange that eh !

BegbiesEvilTwin
04 March 2008 at 19:43

I suppose I deserve being named as such after my attempt to wind you up but rest assured I have been called much worse. Isten Serosch I'm more than happy to entertain any decent arguement about them being Zionists. Like I mentioned earlier there is a solid case for Cohen and Phillips being necons. Just provide some decent evidence and I will make the time to go through all of it.

Martin Bright
05 March 2008 at 11:46

I lhave to say I look back on those day when I helped set up Hamas with a certain amount of regret

BegbiesEvilTwin
05 March 2008 at 15:41

I have similar concerns about creating Mossad. They've all soft and squishy these days. *Sigh!*

knave
05 March 2008 at 19:06

I am warming to you Martin, well at least your sense of humour but I did say " like" but whatever.

I have a feel that Nick Cohens and Oliver kamm will be on the left side according to Mart. Can I sue under the trades description act

Martin Bright
06 March 2008 at 12:33

The trouble is that the right is a broad church and the left is hopelessly sectarian. Of course Oliver and Nick are on the left. Doesn't mean you have to agree with them.

knave
06 March 2008 at 20:38

Of course Oliver and Nick are on the left

Give me the evidence.

BegbiesEvilTwin
06 March 2008 at 22:24

Robust humour aside I have usually found dealing with the non-sectarian thoughtful right just as much an enriching experience as their counterparts on the left (they do exist Martin). As for "Our Boys" Nick and Oliver their political stances seem primarily based on what they are against. Although I try and keep myself open to their thoughts, it all seems a bit soulless. Well it is for me anyway.

knave
07 March 2008 at 05:12

The trouble is that the right is a broad church and the left is hopelessly sectarian.

Cobblers. The left extends from the Galloways to the Cleggs

Of course Oliver and Nick are on the left.

Then explain to me Martin why these two individuals proudly say they are driven by neo conservative ideology

Neo = New

Conservative = an individual or groups of individuals who politically believes in right wing ideology.

redharry
07 March 2008 at 17:21

'Of course Oliver and Nick are on the left.'

Oh my aching sides, Two warmongers. Cohen a supporter of the return of secondary modern schools, rendition and torture. Kamm, a tory voting supporter of nuclear warfare, a merchant banker and self confessed neo-conservative.

Now I see how Martin can view the neo-conservative forgers at the Policy Exchange 'think' tank as centre-right. (Are they suing Newsnight Marty?)

This is the politics of looking-glass land.

knave
08 March 2008 at 16:07

As for "Our Boys" Nick and Oliver their political stances seem primarily based on what they are against

Good point. Although I would say Kamm is far more positive in regards to economics. As for Cohen and Bright I have yet to read an article with any positive "leftists" ideas from those two. All you get is snide negative comments and falsehoods against everybody who is left of Michael Gove. Cohen himself is true believer in many of the Tory policies.

The funniest was Bright's comment "I am more left wing than Gordon Brown". Martin you are a card

BegbiesEvilTwin
08 March 2008 at 19:32

Surely it wouldn't be difficult to be to the left of Gordon Brown? Martin's merely winding us up.

I am all for whatever constitutes the left and the Labour movement to be held up to intense scrutiny as a process of constructive reality checks and holding them to account. I'm confident in saying that anyone with more than a cursory involvement of such there's nothing more appalling than movements/groups while claiming to improve society or rights specific wrongs are simultaneously shafting some other bunch who don't have the resources to stand up for themselves. If nothing else it may keep loons in check such as a former dep-ed of the NS who protested for the release of Astrid Proll (see Wikipedia link below).

Speaking of which I really savour reading/listening to people like Slavoj Zizek as he critically interrogates those who aspire for a better, fairer world.

BTW: Isn't about time the NS gave Zizek a semi-regular column? It seems perverse that the world's most accessible and prominent political philosopher has hardly even been mentioned in this magazine? Do a search the NS and you will see only a handful of mentions.

Martin, you really should have Zizek on your list? Get Gerry Cohen and Kate Soper too. No more faffing about with those chancers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Paul_Anderson_%28journalist%29

BegbiesEvilTwin
09 March 2008 at 17:37

The wikipedia link isn't operating properly from this page here's a shortened version:-

http://tinyurl.com/39za3c

I would also include John Gray on the above list. Granted most are probably older than MacShane but they still have a lot of interesting things to say.

Martin Bright
10 March 2008 at 12:48

Interesting thoughts on Zizek, Gerry Cohen and Kate Soper.

Such is the nature of the intellectual sphere that you couldn't really count them as political insiders.

But they would all make challenging columnists at some time -- although I have to say that I can't see them working wonders for our circulation.

BegbiesEvilTwin
10 March 2008 at 22:26

I agree with you on the insider point of course. The painful truth is that just as in most of their time in opposition Labour is out of ideas. Even on spin they have yet to regain their edge.

At the same time there's not much benefit of insiders if Labour are intellectually bankrupt. What they, in fact we, really need is a bunch of bright young things to embarrass them into action or at the very least steal ideas from.

I have to call you on circulation though. Every media form needs celebs to add kudos/gravitas. Zizek is an academic superstar who can knock out some wonderfully challenging readable content. It's probable that today's Humanities students are more familiar with Zizek's work than previous generations were with Chomsky. Another great duffer the NS could constructively use is Alain Badiou. On home topics he's inscrutable to most but get him on to discussing the War on Terror and you've got a very engaging plain-speaking commentator. He's in his eighties but it's unlikely you will come across many people with such vitality.

Just ensure the NS gave them a wee intro to their articles and it will encourage those who are unaware of them context and discourage the knee-jerk detractors.

knave
14 March 2008 at 16:12

It would be great if Hitchens was given a column,or Hari. Hitchens still is a man who believes in equality and fraternity unlike the foul Cohen, Bright and the rest of the Observer PEU gang

As for Hari he is a a genius.

Maybe a counterpoint section.

Also Mark steel is a very funny writer

BegbiesEvilTwin
21 March 2008 at 17:30

When is this scheduled to go live? The logo on the holding page reminds me on that used by the Institute of Directors.

http://www.politicshome.com/