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How would Jesus vote?

Andrew Stephen

Published 31 January 2008

The 2008 US presidential election pits Baptist against Mormon, Methodist against evangelical. Who gets the divine endorsement?

To use a favourite American acronym, WWJD - What Would Jesus Do - in this year's presi dential election? For which candidate would Jesus vote in a country that is supposed to be 83 per cent Christian? For Senator Barack Obama, perhaps, a biracial yuppie who is a member of a self-described "unashamedly black" and "un asham edly Christian" church? Even if the house magazine of that church voted last year to give an award to a man it said "truly epitomised greatness": Louis Farrakhan, leader since 1978 of the Nation of Islam, a veteran anti-Semite who describes white people as "blue-eyed devils" and Jews as "bloodsuckers" who control everything? Would the fact that Obama has now disassociated himself from the award make any difference?

Or might Jesus pull his lever, touch the computer screen or tick his ballot paper beside the name of the former Massachusetts governor Mitt Romney - a devout believer in a religion which supposedly holds that the Garden of Eden where Adam and Eve first got together was actually in, er, Missouri? And that when Jesus returns to reign over the world he will not only do so from Jerusalem, but also reappear in Jackson County?

Maybe Jesus would prefer the former Arkan sas governor Mike Huckabee, also an ordained Southern Baptist minister, who jokes that the 16 people he had executed while governor "would hardly say I'm soft on crime"? Or Senator John McCain, a self-confessed adulterer shot down over Saigon while bombing a city in which he knew that men, women and children were living? Perhaps Senator Hillary Clinton, a lifelong Methodist churchgoer who was once an avid supporter of the extreme right-wing Republican presidential candidate Barry Goldwater, who wanted to nuke Moscow and believed that pov erty was proof of bad character?

I could go on, but won't. This is a complicated presidential election. I have always held that America is an infinitely more complex country than most Britons realise. Its religious attitudes and the inherent contradictions of its professed Christianity are uniquely American; the descriptions above of the 2008 US presidential candidates, for instance, may sound like surrealist musings, but they are all factually based. The only surprise is that while the media have been frantically trying to whip up the issues of racism (Barack) and sexism (Hillary) this year, there have been few of the usual squabbles over God or religion in the campaign so far.

The prime reason for this, I suspect, is that, thanks to the diabolical manoeuvrings of Karl Rove et al, voters in 2000 and 2004 were conned into believing they were voting for a man of strong Christian principles and "values", but instead found themselves landed with George W Bush. The Republicans thus twice hit the jackpot by using Rove's magic formula, repeatedly appropriating godly righteousness and using that mantra "v-word".

But Hillary Clinton, among others, vowed that in 2008 the Democrats would "take back" religion; the result is that we may well be witnessing the beginning of the end of the so-called "Christian right". Symbolically, Reverend Jerry Falwell - far-right king of the televangelists and founder of the hugely influential Moral Majority movement, which was crucial in propelling both Ronald Reagan and George W Bush into the White House - died suddenly last May, and there has been no stampede to fill his shoes.

Most amazingly of all, it is the Democrats who have so far been able to project themselves as evangelicals in the 2008 campaign, while the Republicans come over as secularists: Clinton, Obama and Edwards have each been married only once, to take a simplistic example, but at the start of the campaign the Republican candidates had been married on average 2.7 times.

To the irritation of many Democrats, John Kerry - a practising Catholic in a country where a quarter of the population is also Catholic - was painfully reluctant even to mention his faith in the 2004 campaign, while Bush was shamelessly gathering votes by Bible-thumping away. But Hillary Clinton now freely describes how she was sustained during the Lewinsky saga by "prayer warriors"; John Edwards tells how he "strayed away from the Lord" but his faith "came roaring back" when his 16-year-old son was killed; Obama literally preaches about tearing down the walls of Jericho at Martin Luther King's Ebenezer Baptist Church in Atlanta, his accent and rhetorical flourishes morphing effortlessly into those of King himself.

How times change, then. The only Republican playing the Christian card in this campaign, not surprisingly, is Reverend Huckabee - and he, as a result, has almost certainly put himself out of the running. He won the Republican caucus in Iowa, where 40 per cent of Republican voters describe themselves as evangelicals, and that put a fatal fire in his belly. First, he and his supporters launched nasty attacks on Romney, a Mormon, by putting it about that Mormons are not true Christians. Then he decreed that the US constitution should be amended "so it's up to God's standards" - the arbiter of God's standards presumably being Arkansas's former executioner himself.

To the countless Republicans who regard the holiness of the US constitution as inextricable from the Bible, that has not gone down well. Therein, in fact, lies the central contradiction inherent in the uneasy mix of American politics and religion. The constitution's famous First Amendment, ratified in 1791, forbids Congress from making any law "respecting an establishment of religion" - yet it would be politically suicidal, more than two centuries later, for any presidential aspirant to declare him or herself to be a non-believer. Indeed, 61 per cent of Americans say they would simply not vote for a candidate who does not believe in God.

The unresolved paradox in all this is that trillions of pennies carried in every American pocket and handbag proudly proclaim that "In God We Trust". No presidential speech ever ends with words other than "God bless America". But in whose God are Americans supposed to believe? A Jewish one? An Islamic one? The knee-jerk belief in America's "manifest destiny" - that God made a covenant with its people to lead the rest of the world and it can therefore, literally, do no wrong - remains pervasive, justifying everything from the original extermination of Native Americans and the 19th-century "expansionism" into Mexico to the 21st-century occupation of Iraq. Just as God was an Englishman when Britain was the world's imperial superpower, so He is now, indubitably, an American.

Enter Mitt Romney, and it all becomes much more complicated. Religious freedom, he says, is "fundamental to America's greatness" - but just as John F Kennedy felt compelled to plead with Americans in 1960 that it would be acceptable for their president to be a Catholic, so Romney is being forced in this campaign to argue that a Mormon would also be OK. "No authorities in my church . . . will ever exert influence on presidential decisions," said Romney in December, echoing JFK's reassurances that the Vatican would not take over the US.

But with Huckabee's piety threatening him daily, Romney felt he could not leave it at that. "Americans acknowledge that [religious] liberty is a gift of God, not an indulgence of government," he said, neatly personifying his country's unresolved confusions. "Freedom requires religion, just as religion requires freedom," he went on, managing to slip in adverse comparisons between feckless European secularism and redoubtably strong American faith.

But faith in what? There are dangerous people about, Romney ploughed on, who are "intent on establishing a new religion in America - the religion of secularism". Eh? Finally, he made the unequivocal declaration he clearly feels necessary if he is to be perceived by the American electorate as an acceptable US president 217 years after that constitutional amendment: "I believe that Jesus Christ is the son of God and the saviour of mankind."

The problem facing Romney in his quest for the White House is that because Mormons were persecuted in the 19th century, they became increasingly secretive and defensive about exactly what they do believe. A very familiar Washington-area landmark is "the Mormon temple" that glistens alongside the city's notorious Beltway - but only Church elders (not even rank-and-file Mormons) have a clue what's inside. Polygamy was banned by the Church in 1890, but the FBI (it's interested in this kind of thing) estimates that between 20,000 and 40,000 of America's 5.8 million Mormons still practise it. A USA Today/Gallup poll found that only 72 per cent of Americans would be willing to vote for a qualified candidate who was a Mormon; a black person or a woman was much more acceptable.

All of which, I am beginning to suspect, could make this a landmark election that will put America's religious freedom and tolerance to the test every bit as much as its attitudes towards race and gender. McCain (an Anglican-turned-Baptist, incidentally) is, as I write, the Republican front-runner - but Romney is closing in on him. Should McCain fade in this most unpredictable of elections, we will be left with a 60-year-old female Methodist candidate who has already spent two controversial terms in the White House, a 46-year-old biracial Christian with a Muslim middle name, and a 60-year-old near-billionaire Mormon whose seemingly strange religious beliefs are shrouded in secrecy.

Yet being a Christian in America tends not to mean what it means elsewhere: the poor, the meek, the merciful, the hungry and the pure-hearted don't get much of a look-in, I'm afraid. Huckabee's tally of 16 executions looks pretty pathetic when compared to the 142 kills George W Bush managed to chalk up while he was governor of Texas, and look where that got Bush. And Obama and Romney are committed to increasing the size of the US military. So WWJD, then? Pray for America, I think.

God and me

Philip Pullman, novelist

What does “God” mean? Given that theologians themselves are still debating the matter, it would be presumptuous of an unbeliever to answer. I'll wait until they're all agreed, and then consider the verdict with interest. It still won't bring him into existence. As for whether he exists or not, I don't agree with those who say that any sentence containing the word "God" must be meaningless, because something doesn't have to exist in order to have meaning: mathematicians, for example, make great use of the square root of -1. So I suppose (anticipating the answer of the united theologians) that what the term "God" means is whatever you can make that term do; but that would merely mean that he was useful, not necessarily that he existed.

Has God ever spoken to you? No.

Where would we be without God? In one sense, exactly where we are now. In another sense, many things would be different - including the entire history of the Jewish, Christian and Muslim worlds.

Jon Snow, broadcaster

What does "God" mean? Anything.

Has God ever spoken to you? Not that I know of.

Where would we be without God? In a dreadful state . . . It's a great comfort to have someone to grieve to or blame, or even thank, when things go wrong and right.

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28 comments from readers

NthAvenue
31 January 2008 at 11:14

Ron Paul!

Cybertiger
31 January 2008 at 11:36

Americans are beyond redemption - Jesus wouldn't vote for an American.

PlanetStarbucks
31 January 2008 at 11:41

Pedantic I know but negative numbers are a murky subject in mathematics, hence the problem with the square root of -1. Show me a negative amount of anything, the concept doesn’t exist apart from in human abstraction called mathematics. Therefore in these terms (according to Mr Pullman) God is nothing more that an abstraction of reality used at convenience to describe a universe we have no direct access to.

I have to say I’m disappointed with Jon Snow too, God can mean anything to him but it’s a great comfort to him to have this undefined entity to blame or praise at will. Maybe Jon sees God like his imaginary friend from childhood then, only he changed his name to a more socially accepted one that allows billions of people to talk to thin air without feeling silly. Or on the flipside God probably won’t be too happy that Jon seems to think God can be anything Jon wants.

Carl Jones
31 January 2008 at 12:45

Andrew & Cybertiger

Judging by the silence from Western churches on Iraq, I would say that God has his work cut out, Hilary says no change, Obama has said he would ""NUKE"" Pakistan and McCain wants more war anywhere he can find it...some say he`s a "machurian candidate".LOL

Bot
31 January 2008 at 13:33

Mitt is not a Creedal Christian. However, he does believe in the Jesus Christ of the New Testament:

The Church of Jesus Christ (LDS) is often accused by Evangelical pastors of not believing in Christ of the Nicene Creed and, therefore, not being a Christian religion. This article http://mormonsarechristian.blogspot.com/ helps to clarify such misconceptions by examining early Christianity's comprehension of baptism, the Godhead, the deity of Jesus Christ and His Atonement.

The Church of Jesus Christ (LDS) adheres more closely to First Century Christianity and the New Testament than any other denomination. For example, Harper’s Bible Dictionary entry on the Trinity says “the formal doctrine of the Trinity as it was defined by the great church councils of the fourth and fifth centuries is not to be found in the New Testament.”

One Baptist blogger stated “99 percent of the members of his Baptist church believe in the Mormon (and Early Christian) view of the Trinity. It is the preachers who insist on the Nicene Creed definition.” It seems to me the reason the pastors denigrate the Church of Jesus Christ (LDS) is to protect their flock (and their livelihood).

Evangelicals should read:

http://brucewilson.blogspot.com/2008/01/unintended-consequen...

Cybertiger
31 January 2008 at 14:04

"Then he decreed that the US constitution should be amended "so it's up to God's standards" - the arbiter of God's standards presumably being Arkansas's former executioner himself."

In my humble view, The Reverend Huckabee is a monkey on the big slide down the greasy religious pole … sliding greasily down the axis of evil … into the fiery depths of Hades. Of course, George Dubya is just yards ahead of him.

Brother Ed
31 January 2008 at 16:32

Pray for America indeed. We need God's guidance not only in this election, but in the very direction we choose to take as a nation and as individuals.

Cybertiger
31 January 2008 at 16:59

@ Brother Ed

"We need God's guidance not only in this election, but in the very direction we choose to take as a nation and as individuals."

But George Dubya has spoken to God and God has guided the 'good shepherd' as he has tended the flock of his choosing. Let us pray for the choice of sheep.

michael waldrop
31 January 2008 at 18:31

There are over 2000 religions, but about 13 revolve around Jesus. (Galatians 2:16-Know that a man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Jesus Christ that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by observing the law, because by observing the law no one is justified.) (Phillipians2:10,11-That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the Glory of God the Father.) With such a dramatic difference in numbers in relation to what is "GOD" by denomination, who can say what is truly acceptable. Man shall always fail me ,but GOD THE FATHER,GOD THE SON, and GOD THE HOLY SPIRIT will never fail me! (Galatians 1:10-Am i now trying to win the approval of men or of GOD? Or am I trying to please men? If I were trying to please men, I would not be a servant of GOD.) The only "GOD" I know is LOVE. War shall always be present until a glorious presence of a power and peace envelope all our hearts and minds. Till that day (Phillippians1:21- To live is Christ and to die is gain.) United States of America will not be the super power of the world when we turn our backs on the "GOD" this nation was founded on. (James 1:2,3- Consider it pure joy, my brothers, whenever you face trials of many kinds because you know that the testing of your faith develops perseverance.) We as a country that the world respects and looks up to must pray for our leaders, Democrats and Republicans. (1 Peter 1:16 -Be holy because i am holy) because (James 5:16-The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective.) This I believe is true, whether 5 years or 500 years- (Peter 4:7-The end of all things is near. Therefore be clear minded and self-controlled so that you can pray.) Pray that "GOD", who is not just anything but creator of everything, guides our leaders to be effective peacemakers. (James 3:18- Peacemakers who sow in peace raise a harvest of righteousness.) Now, my friends and enemy -(1 Corinthians 13:13- But now abide faith, hope, and love. The greatest of these is love.) ******* (Hebrewes13:8-Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.) "GOD" bless you who reads this and our country! (Romans 8:31- IFGOD IS WITH US WHO CAN BE AGAINST US.) Amen.............

mama pajama
01 February 2008 at 04:04

I am a 49 year-old, third generation Arkansan who celebrated when Huckabee left the Governor's Mansion.

I've been stunned to realize that he has achieved any prominence or consideration to be the leader of the United States. It scares me, quite frankly. His legacy and record are all slick rhetoric followed by pandering to a fundamentalist fan base.

The environment in Arkansas suffered under his administration. Civility and respect for diversity suffered; every aspect of social, educational and economic advancement that had happened under Clinton was set back. (And I wasn't the biggest fan of Clinton's environmental record either but that's another story) The fundies had a field day while he was governor.

He supported and convinced voters to deny homosexuals rights to have civil marriages

He supports refusing them the right to foster children

His "covenant marriage act" that he lauded as such a wonderful victory for families is now chosen by a miniscule number of new couples marrying because of the hardships it places on women in abusive relationships seeking divorce!

http://marriage.about.com/od/covenantmarriage/Covenant_Marri... < read here about covenant marriages and the pitfalls

Here are some pages to check Huckabee's record. http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/huckabees_fiscal_rec...( also do a search on Huckabee at factcheck and these items appear:

Huckabee claimed he would “abolish the IRS.” He failed to mention that he’d replace it with another big tax bureaucracy.

Huckabee said he had proposed to make children of illegal aliens eligible for Arkansas scholarships if they "had been in our schools their entire school life.” Actually, the proposal required only three years in Arkansas schools.

Former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee praised a "fair tax" but failed to note that it would ease the burden on the richest Americans while imposing a stiff retail sales tax of perhaps 34 percent. Whether the proposal he said he supported is "fair" or not is of course a matter of opinion. In fact, President Bush's bipartisan Advisory Panel on Tax Reform rejected the idea, saying it would substantially increase taxes for 80 percent of U.S. taxpayers while benefiting those at the top. The panel calculated that a sales tax would have to be set at 34 percent of retail sales prices to bring in the same revenue as the taxes it would replace, meaning that an automobile with a retail price of $10,000 would cost $13,400 including the new sales tax.

LOOK HERE also to see if what he supported in 2002 is what you want for your president..(He refused to answer the questions to these issues again in 2007) http://votesmart.org/npat.php?can_id=1657 < Project Vote Smart

Here it indicates when given the choices of supporting either k) Support age-appropriate sexual education programs that teach about abstinence, contraceptives, and HIV/STD prevention methods.

or

l) Support abstinence-only sexual education programs.

He chose the abstinence only sexual education program.

I went to school in the 60s and 70s and we learned about STD's THEN! I can recall learning that a girl in my very own class figured out she HAD an STD from watching the film in high school that taught about it. I cannot imagine a responsible parent, yet alone responsible leader not wanting a populace that is educated about our own bodies.

Is he afraid if children and teens learn about contraception and STDs that it encourages sex in that population? ( if so, he is also too ignorant to be the leader of the U.S. )

As Governor, in 1992 Mike Huckabee proposed a quarantine for all people who were infected with HIV. This was almost a decade after medical research had discovered that it was spread through unprotected sex or contact with bodily fluids in specific ways. As journalist Chris Wallace points out to Huckabee on a recent television interview asking him to explain his 1992 statement after Huckabee backpedaled, claiming that back then we just didn’t understand the risks.

“But Governor, forgive me, I don’t think that’s right. All the way back in 1985- this wasn’t political correctness–the Center for Disease Control, seven years before you made your statement, said that AIDS could not be spread by casual contact.”

Can the U.S. afford a President whose science literacy is so low that he believes that creationism is a legitimate *alternative* to a scientific theory?

For a time I just wrote off the popularity of Huckabee among the vocal Christian conservatives in Arkansas a reflection of our states lower educational and economic status..but now that I see his rise in popularity in the general populace it downright terrifies me to think I live in a nation that is heading into the dark ages, educationally, socially and morally.

http://hslf.typepad.com/political_animal/2007/12/the-preside... Huckabee on animal cruelty. He helped to stymie efforts by thousands of Arkansans who worked to make cruelty to animals more than a mere slap on the wrist. Is this the man of compassion and ethics that his spinmeisters portray?

Huckabee’s strengths in being able to sound good from the pulpit are not going to lead this nation where we need to go, domestically or in the world arena. Mike Huckabee. In a recent Republican debate, when Romney pointed out Huckabee's "failure" of giving aid to illegal immigrants' children, Huckabee's answered in a clever way that turned this “failure“, this act that the voters would not agree on to spend money on illegal immigrants over citizens by reframing his question with emotional appeal to beliefs of the self-concept of Americans, "In all due respect, we're a better country than to punish children for what their parents did. We're a better country than that." He didn't apologize for spending taxpayer money but said, "America is a good country" and "don't punish children for parent's mistakes."

Other significant findings of Huckabee’s record (you can find more @ http://www.clubforgrowth.org/) include:

He supported an internet sales tax in 2001 (Americans for Tax Reform 01/07/07). He publicly opposed the repeal of a sales tax on groceries and medicine in 2002 (Arkansas News Bureau 08/30/02). He signed bills raising taxes on gasoline (1999), cigarettes (2003) (Americans for Tax Reform 01/07/07), and a $5.25 per day bed-tax on private nursing home patients in 2001 (Arkansas New Bureau 03/01/01). He opposed a congressional measure to ban internet taxes in 2003 (Arkansas News Bureau 11/21/03).

In 2004, he allowed a 17% sales tax increase to become law (The Gurdon Times 03/02/04).

By the end of his ten-year tenure, Governor Huckabee was responsible for a 37% higher sales tax in Arkansas, 16% higher motor fuel taxes, and 103% higher cigarette taxes according to Americans for Tax Reform (01/07/07), garnering a lifetime grade of D from the free-market Cato Institute.

Finally, in 2007, the new Governor, Mike Beebe, a Democrat whose main campaign issue was to cut tax on groceries and medicine, enacted the largest tax cuts in the state’s history by a significant cut to the food tax.

I could go on but this post is massively long enough. Believe me, there is much more I could complain about. I pray we don’t have him become our next president. This upcoming election is a sad one for me since there is no one I really support. I think both parties are corrupt. I just know without any doubt that this nation cannot afford Huckabee in the White House.

More strongly suggested reading : http://www.npr.org/blogs/news/2007/12/huckabees_record_fundi...

AND PLEASE don't leave this without reading about the DARK SIDE of Huckabee with which so many Arkansans are unfortunately familiar at these two articles: http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2007/11/13/huckabee/

http://www.slate.com/id/2182546?gt1=10837

It feels like the right wing agenda is leading our nation to hell in a handbasket and all I can do is look on with horror.

If this is an episode of the Twilight Zone, I sure need a commercial break about now.

This election year I am finding that a great many Americans like myself have a malady we‘ve come to know as E.D., or “Electile Dysfunction“, the inability to become aroused by any presidential candidate.

It doesn‘t help that my state‘s Presidential Primary election is next Tuesday.

mama pajama
01 February 2008 at 04:08

I apologize for a second entry. I did not want to forget to praise this excellent article and the author, Andrew Stephen, for expressing great insight into what is going on *on this side of the pond*, in contrast to often repeated misconceptions I have become exasperated in reading about *us* in the United States from many * over there*, Thank you for "getting it".

witedazee
02 February 2008 at 01:28

Wow that was powerful Michael loved every word

michael waldrop
02 February 2008 at 10:17

Pardon the pun Moma, But "PAPA" says were already in hell. Unless you get off your woe is me E.D.-your rights in choice will not even be. So get out of those pajamas and vote on who you want to see. The lesser of the evils is for me. With you, at points I agree, but few are they because I'm prolife like the olden day Ted Kennedy. I like Obama and respect the Clinton's, but prolife the left wing can't sing. So i will vote the lesser of the evils and not even Mike Huckabee. I'm choosing a leader for "The Land of The Free". The choices are tough, I agree but quit complaining because it AINT GONNA be Mike Huckabee. VOTE mama and be proud that you even live in this great country. Be greatful its just the primary. I'm here not there and I'm not whining. It's either McCain or Mike Romney. "God" bless you and me!!!!!!!

Klatu
04 February 2008 at 23:17

Christ won't be voting, but he could easily blow the whole established order right out of the water. Easier done than said! Check the link for the religious revolution nobody expected but is already well under way. So much for politics?

http://www.energon.org.uk

Older Statesman
06 February 2008 at 23:22

Yeah mate, good idea!

Older Statesman

michael waldrop
08 February 2008 at 01:42

Mit Romney is of strong character and a good man. My apologies for my incorrect spelling of Mr. Romney's name on my last comment. Klato is right about Christ not voting (physically). But I genuinely believe He will guide those that do believe in Him. And the part of easier done than said i don't get. Though the direction this country is going, i could believe the opposite.

And Mr/Mr's Statesman, whatever you want to be, I sure feel older trying to finish your book... :) I thought you would understand by now "we all fall short of the glory of God". Politics can be really dirty but if you don't have anything to hide you shouldn't be complain. Humble yourself and you will be exalted. That's what Mr. Romney may have done. Maybe not ! But who really cares what you think. "'Be still and know that I am God" really makes sense when you just be quiet and listen to Him when He says this to everyone. He's got it all under control. He always has and always will. Even though I'm pro-life, the Democrats could win. Don't whine because your choice is gone. Mit did a great thing for the Republican Party. He's looking at the big picture like you should be too as well. I'm not Mormon, but I was still going to vote for him! Our economy needs a serious face lift and I believe that he was the one to do it. Who cares what he said-she said propaganda... "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" so chill. And get off your woe is me 'State' man and vote for the next best candidate according to your belief's. Peace...

michael waldrop
08 February 2008 at 07:14

I typed complaining... complaining... see, no one's perfect...

Scott Redding
08 February 2008 at 18:09

With Obama's emphasis on change, and Jesus with water and wine, it's a natural fit.

FREEDOM
10 February 2008 at 18:46

While this article has some good points; bringing to everyones attention the fact that JESUS would NOT vote for any of the candidates the media has put in the spot light. But there is one candidate that he failed to mention, the honarable Dr. RON PAUL .

WHY? Because the mass media has completely ignored this amazing congressman from Texas and hence why so many people are unaware that there is another Republican running for president. He is not Muslim or Morman, he has been married to the same woman for 51 yrs., and unlike the rest of our "wonderful" candidates he is a doctor, not a lawyer, just a simple family man that belives in what our founding fathers believed. He knows our constitution better than any other candidate. You don't have to vote for the lesser of two evils. CHECK OUT HIS WEB SITE:

ronpaul2008.com

WWJD ? VOTE RON PAUL !

Older Statesman
13 February 2008 at 10:01

Michael Waldrop, Sir

You have suggested that as a Christian with nothing to hide, I should just "be still". But a person gets tired of misinformation, especially from journalists who occupy a privileged position, where they are able to influence the opinions of thousands of people on important matters.

Secondly, it is easy for you to say when it is not your religion that is being misrepresented.

As a career Town Planner I am very used to the propaganda spinners, but in the main it comes from the populace in general, not from journalists, who usually pride themselves on being no respecter of position or class; only the truth.

I do not agree with Mitt Romney's policies and would not vote for him. I think the sooner America gets out of Iraq the better...it is fueling a new generation of haters of the west.

But I will defend to my last drop of glucose his right to run for office without diversionary arguments straight out of the dirty tricks bag, namely misrepresentation of his religion, by saying it embraces the polygamists.

Especially will I respond to an article by a journalist that knows exactly what he is doing.... given his article:

"The boy genius behind Bush", published 15 November 2004. Here he shows he is well aware of diversionary tactics unscrupulous people use: (quote:)

"...there has not been an electoral campaign [Karl] Rove has run, at least one that I can discover where there have not been the nastiest of dirty tricks..."

When Paul the Apostle, in the New Testament, was accused of sedition (Acts 24), he judged it OK to defend himself and his doctrine (Acts 26), rather than just leave it up to God. It was a long speech before Agrippa, to which Agrippa replied:

"Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian"

So I guess you would acknowledge it was worth his trouble, as a servant of the Lord, to answer the criticisms of the "Jews from Jerusalem."

Have you ever looked into the Church of Jesus Christ of ( LDS)?

Older Statesman

michael waldrop
14 February 2008 at 09:49

Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ!!!!!!!

Mr.Statesman, In Jesus Name, God bless your spirit to understand when I say your living by FALSE teachings and your soul is in danger. All fall short of the Glory of God. Only He knows your heart and only He will be the Judge of your soul. So you can ignore me, or even loath me. But I will still love you.

To answer your question--yes, I have. And its tremendously scary to see the awesome power of the devil devising strife and confusion amongst us. I was born in the mountains of Mexico from missionary parents. I was raised with religion constantly surrounding me to the point of almost disgust. And what I mean by disgust is another story.

2 Peter 2:1-2 corroborates this by saying "But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them-bringing swift destruction on themselves. Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute." Check out this web address to see the difference between Christianity and Mormonism- http://www.carm.org/lds/compare.htm

If your curious to see how Christianity can not be refuted I just glanced at this address through an Islamic link and its got some cool FACTS-- http://www.jesuscentral.com/ji/jesus-primarysources.php?lgZ=...#WHEN

Everyone ,these are exciting times! I can't imagine how many are consumed with stress, anxiety, depression, or even maybe all of these. I can assure you that if I didn't have Jesus in my heart, I would be troubled. God has not given us the spirit of fear, but of love, of power, and a sound mind. I am sad though that not all will come to know the Lord. For the times that are before us will increasingly get worse. 1 Corinthians 2:9 says "No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love him."

Jesus loves each and every one of you!

Whether your Agnostic, Islamic, Buddhist, Hinduist, or anything else that you may have faith in, especially Judaisms, may the truth of the love of Jesus find and bless you.

Gosh! In reference to the article -WWJD???????

LOL! LOL! Lets see- McCain wants to overturn Roe vs Wade even though Jesus is pro-life, Huckabee needs a miracle to stay in to have a second chance and the Democrats are for abortion and gay marriage. (YES I CAN vote for a demi.)----but every time they get an inch they want to take a mile. After gay marriage rights the next thing is to adopt and raise up children in their unnatural and unhealthy lifestyle. I wont concede without a fight. Jesus is neither Republican or Democrat. He's independent of us all. And the Antichrist is not Ron Paul.

Mike Huckabee would probably be Jesus's choice, but majority rules and this country's values treading on thin ice. I have respect for Clinton for not only being intelligent in political matters, but she also showed strength in patience and mercy during the disdainful act her husband committed while President of the United States of America. Why can't Obama be republican? He would be my choice in a heartbeat if it were so, but that's not the case. Ron Paul had his chance long time ago, but chose to run independent of the two party's. He wised up too late. Whoever you vote for out there I strongly suggest that you look up each and every individual by Wikipedia (Internet dictionary) and thoroughly read everything written. Facts speak volumes! Its not that long or troublesome to have a better understanding of what and who (you) represent. Reading their own web sites only allow you to see what they want you to see. Whatever you do just at least vote. I'm sick and tired of hearing people complain about their situation when they don't even VOTE!

Mr. Redding, euphemistically speaking with this correlation you have with the miracle of Jesus turning water in to wine, I fear our country is going to definitely get drunk and wake up with the worst hangover possibly imagined. God as my witness, whatever scenario we choose the worst will only happen to us when we decide to not support and protect Israel.

Happy Valentines Everyone!

michael waldrop
15 February 2008 at 00:28

wikipedia their wives as well... knowledge is power as the meek will inherit the earth...

Older Statesman
18 February 2008 at 16:48

During his term, Abraham Lincoln helped preserve the United States by leading the defeat of the secessionist Confederate States of America in the American Civil War. He introduced measures that resulted in the abolition of slavery, issuing his Emancipation Proclamation in 1863 and promoting the passage of the Thirteenth Amendment to the Constitution in 1865. He probably has done more for the advancement of humanity than any other President of the United States. Yet he never signed up to the Nicene Creed definition of God.

It was Lincoln’s reading, rather than his relationships with clergymen, that were most influential in shaping his personal beliefs. Lincoln’s reading and personal study of the Bible was an integral part of his intellectual roots.

Lincoln largely rejected organized religion... So he was not known to endorse the beliefs contained in the Nicene Creed, nor therefore: the traditional Christian belief of three Gods in the one entity; yet separate personalities -- one of whom was resurrected with an immortal body that could consume food.

Yet he obviously had a firm belief in God. In the summer or early fall of 1862, Lincoln attempted to put on paper his private musings on why, from a divine standpoint, the severity of the civil war was necessary:

“The will of God prevails. In great contests each party claims to act in accordance with the will of God. Both may be, and one must be, wrong. God cannot be for and against the same thing at the same time. In the present civil war it is quite possible that God's purpose is something different from the purpose of either party — and yet the human instrumentalities, working just as they do, are of the best adaptation to effect his purpose. I am almost ready to say this is probably true — that God wills this contest, and wills that it shall not end yet. By his mere quiet power, on the minds of the now contestants, He could have either saved or destroyed the Union without a human contest. Yet the contest began. And having begun He could give the final victory to either side any day. Yet the contest proceeds."

Scholars now rank Lincoln among the top three U.S. Presidents, with the majority of those surveyed placing him first.

Is there anyone out there who wants to say Lincoln should not have been a President, and needed saving, because he did not endorse the Nicene Creed definition of God, by signing up to a traditional Christian Church?

Before anyone leaps forward in defense of this diversionary tactic used in this campaign, that members of the Church of Jesus Christ (LDS) are not Christians, I would remind you that according to the Christian "main stream", a belief in God is all you need to be saved. Quote: "It is a free gift received by God's grace" (Eph. 2:8; Rom. 6:23)" (http://www.carm.org/lds/compare.htm)

So, Lincoln's definition of God is irrelevant, anyway.

It strikes me as strange how salvation is a free gift, except for Mormons.

If Lincoln were here, he probably say: God would support whichever candidate "is the best adaptation to effect his purpose".

michael waldrop
21 February 2008 at 12:24

Yeah, your right about Lincoln being one of the best Presidents our country has ever had. But you nor I am able to judge where his spirit dwells. How could any religion find that all people are created equal and then turn around and proclaim that a certain group should be slaves.

Religion is the root of all wars.

Our country brought the bloodbath on itself. An agnostic can see that what we did to African Americans was wrong. Our country deserves a black president. I just wish we could have had a republican for a choice.

There is this bitter sweet feeling I have for Obama being our next president. I will be proud to have a black man as our leader as I know he will be, but I fear for the direction that democrats are taking in abolishing "under God" in the pledge of allegiance and taking away the ten commandments are analogous to King Solomon days. Whats next? Will I not be able to utter His name in public? There will be little vetoing if any at all. And that's just the tip of the iceberg. May God bless and protect us all, especially OUR LEADERS NO MATTER WHAT RACE OR GENDER, DEMOCRAT OR REPUBLICAN.

Jabberwocky
24 February 2008 at 19:31

Leave Jesus out of this. For our systems have nothing to do with GOD. What would Jesus do? Exactly as HE has done for millenniums - allowed us to make up our own mind.

He doesn't need to vote - He's got the whole world in His hands (song)

michael waldrop
26 February 2008 at 16:29

Mr Jabberwocky is right about the Lord having the whole world in his hands. Human beings made in His image are given the right to make their own choices. But, history has proven that laws are needed to avert anarchy. And laws have been based on all kinds of faiths. It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and the Bible. (George Washington, father of our country) http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_did_religion_mean_to_our_foun...

Mr. Wocky is just jabberin ;)

michael waldrop
22 March 2008 at 03:39

WHAT!!!! nobody thinks this is important anymore!!!! thats a freakin shame!

Happy Good Friday nevertheless,

may God have mercy on us!

And i dont mean Alla..........

gehpilot
28 May 2008 at 03:51

Enjoyed the article, and comments. Just a small correction, but one that I am absolutely positive about. The statement "A very familiar Washington-area landmark is "the Mormon temple" that glistens alongside the city's notorious Beltway - but only Church elders (not even rank-and-file Mormons) have a clue what's inside" is 100% inaccurate. Any member that lives the basic beliefs of the "Mormon" church can, and do enter the temple.

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About the writer

Andrew Stephen

Andrew Stephen was appointed US Editor of the New Statesman in 2001, having been its Washington correspondent and weekly columnist since 1998. He is a regular contributor to BBC news programs and to The Sunday Times Magazine. He has also written for a variety of US newspapers including The New York Times Op-Ed pages. He came to the US in 1989 to be Washington Bureau Chief of The Observer and in 1992 was made Foreign Correspondent of the Year by the American Overseas Press Club for his coverage.

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