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The most important protest of our time

Mark Lynas

Published 16 August 2007

Aviation is the incendiary issue in environmental politics today. The campaigners at Heathrow are just the vanguard of a powerful new people's movement.

It's difficult to hear over the roar of planes - Heathrow is literally on the other side of the fence. In an hour or so a phalanx of black-clad policemen will invade the site, only to be driven away by a hurriedly assembled group of chanting protesters. But for now our minds are focused on global warming science. Using a solar-charged laptop and slides projected against the wind-buffeted side of a white marquee, I'm explaining to a packed audience of Climate Campers just how important it is that we stabilise global temperature rises below the danger line of 2° - and how the aviation industry stands in the way.

Probably the single most polluting thing you or I will ever do is step on to a plane. Take that tempting return flight to, say, Thailand, and you become immediately responsible for about six tonnes of greenhouse gases entering the atmosphere - three times more than is likely to come from any other activity you do in the year, including driving and heating your house. This is why aviation is the most bitter and divisive issue in environmental politics today.

There is almost no consensus anywhere in this debate. Even my last paragraph will have caused annoyance for some: my six tonnes figure for the Thailand flight includes a 2.7x multiplier to account for the aggravating impact of greenhouse gases released by aircraft high into the atmosphere. However, citing scientific uncertainty, airlines choose to ignore this extra warming effect: if you use British Airways's carbon calculator to reassess my Thailand flight, it returns a figure of "only" 2.16 tonnes.

Not surprisingly, the industry downplays the impact of its activities. BAA's chief executive, Stephen Nelson, argues that aviation accounts for only 6 per cent of UK carbon emissions and 3 per cent of those globally. (These figures of course include no multiplier.) Aviation "should not be demonised, and we should not be cutting back on capacity at a time when people want to fly more", he insists. However, Nelson and his colleagues are less happy to voice a more inconvenient truth concerning aviation: that it is by far the fastest-growing source of greenhouse-gas emissions globally. This is the second reason why the aviation debate is so bitter, and why protesters are massing around the perimeter fence at Heathrow. If air travel goes on expanding, all carbon-reduction targets go out of the window. As the Tyndall Centre - the UK's best-known academic body specialising in climate research - reported in a 2006 study, aviation could account for 100 per cent of the UK's carbon allocation by 2050 in a climate stabilisation scenario. In other words, all other carbon-emitting sectors will need either to go zero-carbon or to shut up shop, merely to allow for the growth in air traffic.

Tyndall Centre scientists are adamant that "there is no chance for the climate without tackling aviation" - and that means stopping the expansion of airport infrastructure. This is again where BAA comes in. The company is currently lobbying for a second runway at Stansted and is close to completing Heathrow's Terminal 5. It also wants to see a third runway at Heathrow, and a sixth terminal to serve it, despite promising local residents many times that this would never happen. The company seems to have an umbilical relationship with the Department for Transport - everything it wants to see happen, the DfT wants, too. BAA executives return the compliment by brandishing the 2003 aviation white paper - which "projects" a doubling of passenger numbers by 2020 and supports new runways at Stansted and Heathrow - as a sort of substitute corporate mission statement.

Perhaps this closeness evolves from BAA's origins as a state asset. The British Airports Authority was privatised by Margaret Thatcher in 1986. Since being taken over by the Spanish construction giant Ferrovial in June last year, BAA (which also owns Southampton, Aber deen, Edinburgh and Glasgow airports and made £620m in profits last year) is no longer listed on the Stock Exchange and is accountable to no one other than the Ferrovial board.

BAA manages to combine the worst kind of crass commercialism with the hapless inefficiency of a government bureaucracy. Even the Economist complains about the preponderance given at "grotty" Heathrow to aggressive retailing, as opposed to getting people quickly and with minimum fuss on to planes. From an environmentalist perspective, this is all to the good: the more flying becomes an inconvenient and unpleasant experience, the less people will want to do it. There are already signs of this: Stagecoach reports that its 38 per cent rise in profits last year was assisted by domestic air travellers switching to the train due to environmental and convenience concerns.

Most people hope for an eventual technical fix to the emissions problem. Richard Branson has pledged billions for biofuels research, but even if technical hurdles - such as biofuels' propensity to freeze at high altitude - could be overcome, there isn't enough land out there to support the volumes of fuel required without either displacing large areas of food production or further destroying tropical forests. Nor does hydrogen offer much hope; it takes up more space than kerosene for the same amount of energy produced, and the water vapour emissions from burning hydrogen will still warm the climate. No one, not even airline PR people, claims that alternative fuels can be developed for at least another 30-50 years, much too late to help reduce climate change, which requires concerted action in the next decade.

You could offset, of course - but this is another thorny moral and political debate. Certainly it is true that offsetting does not reduce emissions - it simply allows them in one place while trying to mop up the damage somewhere else. However, I would argue that it is better to offset than not, particularly as most of the projects - from biofuel school stoves in India to rainforest restoration in Uganda - are worthy in and of themselves.

Environmentalists suggest that at the very least the aviation industry should pay as much tax on its fuel as everyone else. The Aviation Environment Federation has estimated that airlines pay just 18p per litre on fuel that would cost you and me 75p - helping net the industry as much as £9bn in hidden subsidies. But wouldn't taxing aircraft fuel, thereby raising the price of tickets, simply price poorer travellers out of the market? Not necessarily. Most of the boom in low-cost air travel has been soaked up by rich people travelling more often. Surveys show that most people in the lowest social groups do not fly at all.

A better way to make the industry pay its environmental way would be to bring it into the EU Emissions Trading Scheme. In principle, this would force airlines to buy enough credits to cover their activities within the context of an overall economy-wide emissions reduction. But the principle and practice are somewhat different. Governments are allowed to set their own national carbon caps each year. Airlines know their political power, which is probably why most say they are happy to participate in the EU ETS: if the squeeze got too tight, they could simply pick up the phone to the aviation minister.

Arrogant stance

The industry has grown too powerful for its own good. BAA certainly overplayed its hand in asking for an injunction against climate-change protesters that would potentially have covered five million people. In taking such an arrogant stance, BAA has helped drive together an unusual alliance against it: from local communities, to direct action protesters, to the widening number of ordinary people who recognise the threat aviation poses to our future. It is a movement that is growing rapidly in confidence and in numbers.

Like the police, BAA constantly invokes the terrorism threat as an excuse to stamp out pro test, crying wolf in a political argument it knows it is losing. Campaigners against Stansted expansion recently introduced a witness from Greenland at the public inquiry: Aqqaluk Lynge, an Inuit human rights leader, gave eloquent testimony about what is really at stake. "You may say that the expansion of London Stansted Airport will play only a small part in increasing climate change, but everyone can say that about almost everything they do. It is an excuse for doing nothing," Lynge argued. "The serious consequences affecting my people today will affect your people tomorrow."

As if on cue, scientists revealed on 9 August that the Arctic sea ice had reached its lowest level in recorded history. With a further month of melt left to go, the experts expect that the previous record - set in 2005 - will be "annihilated". Don't expect to read about this in a BAA press release or government white paper. But do expect to hear a lot more about it from campaigners like those at the Climate Camp, who are making the most important protest of our time. The stepping up of direct-action protests on global warming has come not a moment too soon.

Mark Lynas is author of "Six Degrees: Our Future on a Hotter Planet" (Fourth Estate, £12.99)

Voices from the climate camp

I have lived in the little borough of Hillingdon all my life. If the expansion goes ahead my whole family history will be under concrete
Linda McCutcheon (61), secretary of the No Third Runway Action Group

If we don’t target airport expansion then all other efforts to confront climate change will be a waste of time
Graham Thompson (33), Plane Stupid activist

I’ve been encouraging as many people as possible to go to the Camp for Climate Action: it’s an opportunity to learn about what’s at stake. The airport expansion would ruin the lives of local people
Michael Cox (49), Liberal Democrat councillor for the London Borough of Hillingdon

I’m involved with climate change through my work, but I’ve also seen the injustice in the way people in Heathrow’s flight path have been treated
Peter Lockley (27), running workshops for the Aviation Environment Federation

Climate change is the greatest threat that humanity has ever faced. If we want to be a world leader in tackling it, we have to start at home
James Turner (27), full-time Greenpeace activist

Interviews by Ben Quinn

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41 comments from readers

mitchy
16 August 2007 at 13:21

Carbon offsetting would be worthwhile if it wasnt fundamentally flawed from the outset.

See Adam Ma'anit's article 'If you go down to the woods today' in the New Internationalist for some inconvenient facts about carbon offsetting

http://www.newint.org/features/2006/07/01/keynote/

215cu
16 August 2007 at 14:33

Mark,

An excellent article, I've read quite a few and disagree with some of them but this one really hits the nail firmly on the head.

Technology can and will contribute to reducing land based transportation emissions (responsible for 25% of UK CO2 emissions) and I am confident that an effective carbon trading system will provide the incentives for industry and power generation to do the same (responsible for another 50%). Domestic CO2 accounts for the remainder in which individuals can make a difference.

As you rightly point out there is no technological answer to aviation. The new aircraft delivered now will still be in service in 2020 and jet technology is at its zenith as a mature technology now. It is a cul-de-sac for aviation and to reduce aviation emissions is going to come from using planes less not building new runways.

The aviation industry exhibits all the wrong aspects of market-driven forces. BAA is a monopoly in the South East, they have a great deal of influence with the Government and also the Trades Unions. The Government is not only culpable in their Aviation White Paper but also in terms of not encouraging enough competition between airports (leaving two underutilised with others at full capacity) and not regulating aspects like landing slots to make the most of the capacity already there.

BAA combined with the airlines have published a great deal of misinformation regarding flying. On the news a few days ago a BAA spokesman said that aviation only contributes 1.2% of UK CO2 emissions. Well, that's the figure from the Stern review for domestic flights only. Looking at the DEFRA figures, worked out from the fuel taken from UK bunkers for international flights that another 1.5% can be found there.

However even now, there is no global agreed method of working out a country's CO2 output for aviation and that allows BAA the room to spout misleading figures. At Imperial College, Centre of Transport, they have a method based on air traffic control data and it put aviation contribution to UK CO2 emission at around 6-6.5% .

And that is not just UK passengers travelling abroad, Heathrow has a large percentage of passengers en route elsewhere.

However, it is important to remember there is an 'economic contribution' to aviation frequently trotted out by BAA. Yes. In short for every £1 spend by tourists in the UK, we spend £2.32 abroad. And as an industry, it contributes the same as water treatment and sewage companies in terms of GDP.

In terms of corporate responsibility, BAA have played fast and loose with its neighbours. They announced to great fanfare to the T5 public enquiry they would never seek a Third Runway. So much, they even published that news in their corporate newspaper. They have misled the community around the airport and the local authorities around the airport (who are of all political persuasions and all vehemently opposed to this expansion).

The QC in charge of the T5 Public enquiry stated that it would be an environmental catastrophe to expand Heathrow any further. This government's green credibility evapourated for me when they have ignored all the advice of counsel, environmental experts, local residents, locally elected councillors and MPs.

Finally, I know the people in Sipson and Harmondsworth very well. I used to live in Sipson until very recently but marriage and starting a new family has led to me moving away with some sadness. To see such a 'disparate' group uniting to a common cause is heartening as it is dryly amusing in a typically British way of protest.

The residents of Sipson & Harmonsworth are regular, everyday people, the best of us. BAA should underestimate the tenacity and fight in these residents at their peril they have put up with the misinformation and the relentless expansion for decades. I've been to many protest meetings myself and this time they are livid and more determined than ever to stop this one, it takes a great deal to whip up such dissent in reasonable people.

BAA this time I feel will be on the losing end.

Carl Jones
16 August 2007 at 17:16

I reached the first line of the second paragraph and gave up!

Mr Lynas....the single most polluting thing that you or I will do is play our part making babies....as a generalisation most of us will have children.

I hate the global warming farce, because it is totally flawed...maybe Mr Gore can explain why all the planets in our solar system are warming up? We have short memories, a couple of major volcanic eruptions and we could see temperatures drop by 4/5 degrees....Europe under a few feet of ice, global crop failures, which could kill off a few hundred million and this could last over a decade!

China builds two coal fired power stations every week....has Al Gore demamded a stop to this? Carbon dioxide makes up about 4.5% of the gases in our atmosphere...of this, about 5% can be attributed to human behaviour. The only provable fact is that global tempreatures have risen by 2 degrees over the last centuary, maybe if all the other planets had the components of Earth, then they to would show similar increases in tempreature. Apart from the fact that all the planets are warming, we also fail to take into account changes in Earths orbit. Earth is also due a magnetic flip, our chaotic weather could have something to do with this.

Of course, there are things happening which the public has little or no understanding. When I was a young teenager, BBC Tomorrows World stated that within 30 years, "we will be able to control the weather"...of course, once the US military realised that "weather/natural event modification" was the most powerful WMD (weapon of mass destruction) known to man. The idea/quest for weather control fell from the MSM`s lips. Scalar weapons are here, the weather can be controlled on a continental scale. Earthquakes, floods, tsunami and super storms are all on the agenda.

When our political/corporate masters adopt the green movement, the public should be very wary of their agenda. The West is "product saturated". They need a whole new layer of uneeded higher technology products which the public will feel dandy about buying and using. The myth of global warming suits this agenda purfectly.

Notting Hill Nonsense
17 August 2007 at 11:57

Greens like Mark Lynas have been trying to persuade the British public for nearly two decades that we're all going to hell in a handcart because we use electricity, fly, drive and heat our patios.

It is a tribute to the people of this great nation of ours that they have not been taken in for a moment and are continuing as normal.

The idea that we should all be terrified of the weather is just plain cowardly.

Cybertiger
17 August 2007 at 12:53

@Notting Hill Nonsense

"It is a tribute to the people of this great nation of ours that they have not been taken in for a moment and are continuing as normal. "

Is it possible that this great nation of ours is liberally populated by sand pit dwelling ostriches?

taghioff.info
18 August 2007 at 07:33

I wonder of climate-sceptics get paid per blog post, or are they just driven by existential angst: Oops, we thought we had it all sewn up, but we were wrong.

The bottom line is this. The way we have imagined progress for the last 50 years is no longer going to carry us forward. The Heathrow struggle illustrates this nicely- Ongoing exponential increases in mobility, flexibility and consumption are not going to work; flying city financiers around the world no longer constitutes progress.

New Orleans marked the end of that political era, and world-wide folk movements, effectively calling for governments to start planning and regulating more to protect our collective futures, are the first signs of the new era. This is odd, since when have people gone out and marched in order to be governed more?

This is not Lefty nonsense, this is hard science translated into the global governance measures required for collective survival.

Wake up, Rome is burning.

Notting Hill Nonsense
18 August 2007 at 08:32

Hi Mr Taghioff,

I am paid £9.99 plus VAT per post by a consortium led by Exxon, Halliburton and Beelzebub.

Carl Jones
18 August 2007 at 09:11

Dearest Mr Taghioff.Info,

New Orleans was man made...I won`t go through all the details, but the US elite made a pile of money.

I cought this headline in yesterdays Metro newspaper...it was on page 11!!

"1934 was hottest year and not 1998"

" An internet looger claims he has forced NASA to admit that data it used to demonstrate climate change may be flawed. Stephen McIntyre got the space agency to conceded that the hottest year on record in the US is 1934 and not 1998 as it had previously claimed. He pointed out the mistake (??) to NASA after making his own calculations. After his tip-off (??), NASA ordered a full review of its climate data and confirmed it would change its results by a few hundredths of a degree. However, NASA has dismissed the alteration as trivial. The former mining executive, from Toronto, also argues that five of the ten warmest years on record in the US occoured before 1939".

So all the carbon released since 1934 has had no effect on US summers as 1934 is the hottest US summer on record!

BTW, I get very well paid for my posts...its called satisfaction at being closer to the truth and not being ring led by the NWO.lol

taghioff.info
19 August 2007 at 07:41

NHN

Wow, cheap date. I get £30 per month plus lifetime supply of red socks from the Internationale.

Mr Jones

Glad you are closer to the facts than the 2000 climatologists of the IPCC. Are any of your sources peer-reviewed scientific journals by the way?

Gosh, how radical and far out we are these days, calling for a trust in established science, and for responsible government to prevent massive loss of life based on the best available evidence.

Douglas Chalmers
19 August 2007 at 10:48

For BAA, read BAE and the aviation industry's must-be-correct-at-all -costs attitude regardless of paying bribes to corrupt Saudi sheikhs or sending 6 tonnes of pollution into clean air for every long-haul passenger never mind the myriad commuter flight passengers.

Britain is a wonderful place to escape from, particularly at certain times of year. Just jump on a plane - to wherever the sun is shining. But, the main reason is the Brits are a great race to escape from, too. Morose, semi-civilised, as well as dishonest about their business links with Saudi diplomats and royalty.

Cybertiger
19 August 2007 at 11:52

Is Carl Jones, the Jonesy, late of the censoring BBC 'Today' message board? I think the BBC regarded you - and I - as semi-housetrained polecats. Neither of us was in anyway morose or dishonest - and I think this was the problem.

Carl Jones
19 August 2007 at 12:10

Taghioff....are you refering to the 2000 climatologists who are in a desperate position in maintaining their funding?lol

The NWO script has been written...failure to repeat the mantra and your career is over. Its the same in the media. 1934 was Amerikas hottest year!lol

Carl Jones
19 August 2007 at 12:31

Hello Cybertiger, I had spotted your name in previous posts, but decided to see how long it would take you to respond. I`m now under a total BBC ban and I still don`t know which rules I broke.

If members of the public can`t post their views on BBC forums which they fund...what hope is there for climatologists, when the politicians and corporations who fund them are running with the climate change baton.

I`m now going to read the Sunday papers. I have no doubt that I`ll thumb through at least 20 pages of cruising holidays....but still, not a critical word in the MSM on this industry.

Carl Jones
19 August 2007 at 12:45

Mr Charlmers, you are right, but unfortunately, this is the way the Saudi`s like doing bussiness.So anyone selling arms to Saudi are corrupt, so how do the Americans get away with it?

taghioff.info
19 August 2007 at 19:38

Discussion at the Climate Camp:

http://www.indymedia.org.uk/media/2007/08//378867.mp3

gnuneo
19 August 2007 at 23:04

airships, hydrogen fueled, possibly with computer controlled sails for totally clean travel, with a glass bottomed viewing gallery so the stronger stomached passengers can watch their beautiful planet, with its glowing cities, green fields and ice-capped mountains slide past, all in virtual silence with the room to move around for all.

or a noisy, smelly sardine can, a glorified cattle truck that our grandchildren will spit on our graves for using.

mmm, let me think....

Frederic Stansfield
20 August 2007 at 17:41

A specific point from this article is the multiplier effect of flying at high altitudes relating to greenhouse emissions. One of the very worrying things about global warming is the lack of time available to develop new technology that will maintain economic prosperity (including the profits of transport companies if they adapt and capitalism continues to be the world's preferred economic system) whilst heeding the many urgent scientific warnings about the danger of runaway global warming. Making regulations requiring planes to fly at lower altitudes is something that could be done as quickly as political processes allow. As a non-expert I would be interested to know if this would lessen the environmental damage caused by aeroplanes, bearing in mind that I understand flying lower uses more fuel.

ToddisGod
20 August 2007 at 22:07

I'll make a little bet with the climate change doom mongers ; in ten years time they'll be whinging about something else , the apocalypse having failed (yet again) to have happened.Flying , consuming, industrialisation are actually GOOD things- dont believe me?Try living in the 3rd world backward nation of your choice then tell me im wrong.Meanwhile the vast majority of us will continue to fly, consume etcwhilst the hairshirts weave their own yoghurt.A hundred or so hippies in a field does not equal a mass movement does it?

mysticatom
20 August 2007 at 23:18

I havent flown in 16 years, and honestly do not understand why people negelect this Island to tick off some foreign check list.

However the climate camp is perhaps counter productive in that it hardens positions on either extreme of the debate over what to do. Comments about halting growth, even reversing it gives serious scientific and technological solutions the bird as it will only alienate the very establishment that will have to solve the problem of emission cuts.

Sweden has amply demobnstrated a growing economy can massively cut emissions. Science tells us we could easily power all Europe's electricity needs with CSP technology covering less than 1% of North Africa deserts.

As to efficiency of consumption - again, smartening up our act means capital growth can continue through efficiency savings, and in the end that growth will change into a market that preys on carbon emissions to reduce them and waste and inefficiency of supply in general.

As the wheel of debate circles fueled by the arc of Neo-Con oil lobbies on one side, and extreme environmentalism on the other, the rest of have to get with it and prove both extremes to be exaggerating the difficulties.

Carl Jones
21 August 2007 at 10:44

mysticatom

"Hardens the position on either extreme"...I`m not on either extreme, I`m in the middle. On one side we have a bunch of corporations and their puppet politicians and on the other side we have the Greens and they`ve just got into bed with each other. The trouble is, the Greens don`t understand why the corporations and their puppet politicos are banging the green drum.

Its all about rigged energy costs funding new technology providing new products which the public are been brainwashed into buying.

Sure, the climate is changing, there has been a slight rise in tempreatures. But blaming it all on CO2 is just "plane" stupid.

On other forums I`ve posted about the climate war waged on France. Every year for the last 15 years their August weather has been terrible. Last year during May, April, June and July, the had temps which were normal, in June and July typically 24-27 degrees. On the 1 August temps were 22-23 degrees for the entire month, the entire country was covered in low cloud and rainfall was high and widespread. On the 1 September, temps recovered to 24-27 degrees and this went on into October. After pointing out this alarming pattern, this year they seem to have switched the attack from France to the UK. Sure, the weather is changing, the question is, who is pulling the leavers?

Cybertiger
21 August 2007 at 11:51

CJ said,

"Sure, the weather is changing, the question is, who is pulling the leavers?"

Although without religion or theistic belief, I firmly believe that the demonic levers of weather change are being pulled by G-d, the all-Amerikan G-d.

mvdhc
21 August 2007 at 15:45

In 1955, when my family moved to Barnes in South West London, there weren't many planes overhead. Growing up, we used to watch out for planes, and I grew up knowing about all the different airlines and plane types. A particular treat was the sight of Concorde flying over every day. As children, from the top floor of the house, we would rush from one side of the house to the other to see, [can you believe it!] three planes in the sky at the same time. In 2007, it has gone a long way beyond a thrill. Just as security requirements have made the process of flying an unpleasant one, so too has air travel gravely affected the quality of life of a population much wider than just those who fly. Restrictions on night-time flying have been eased, so that close to midnight, there are still noisy planes low overhead, and in spite of double glazing on all our home's windows, and ear-plugs, the first planes wake me up before dawn whenever I go to visit my elderly mother. Because this invasion of the airspace has happened gradually, it is time to take a step back and ask if this is really the way we all wish to live. It feels like being in the same position as a live frog being slowly heated up in a pan of water. The poor frog does not realise what is happening until he is well and truely cooked! If the noise pollution is so bad already, and in an area which is not right next to Heathrow, what will it be if Heathrow is extended? Let us start looking after our planet and stop abusing it and the people who live in it. Don't extend Heathrow. Invest in alternative ways of getting around, which damage the fuel resources of the world less.

Monique Vajifdar

mysticatom
21 August 2007 at 15:53

Carl Jones, I understand your scepticism - I used to share it. Then I began to look not into some political bandwagon or corporate carbon spin - long before that ever took off, but the Royal Society website, a looked around the world and saw in each country science was quietly warning and being ignored. Then the predicted outcomes started to happen - collapsing ice shelfs, lake Chad shrunk to a quarter of its 10000 year size - Hemmingway's Kilimanjaro no longer snow capped, glaciers shrinking before seasoned annual skiers eyes. Then slowly, the media began to pick it up. Then slowly, busness started to see the benefit of green wash spin - so to Blair et al.

But conspiracy? The economic rameworks still reward high carbon industry. Brown is positively hindering the state of the art construction techniques - effectively fitting new buyers up with high energy bills! 200,000 eco homes is bet hedging against 2800,000 non state of the art homes.

But whatever I think, you make your point well.

mysticatom
21 August 2007 at 16:28

Oh yes, and on the topic of topsy turvey weather, that's all as predicted. Only the innocent think global warming just means a steady rise in temperatures everywhere. This is why some experts think the phrase should re-coined as climate chaos. Last year I had contacts in Florida seeing snow and frost for the first time at the same time as Maine had a late winter heatwave. They've just had ridiculous amounts of rainfall in the Mid West. As for Europe - well of course when we do our homework we understand that the air stream normally flowing over the UK and Scandanavia has tilted down to Greece Italy and Southern Spain. he UK and France are in the grip of what normally races up the Atlantic west of Iceland - hence the dingy, dank weather more akin to winter. Recall the warnings that the UK could in fact tilt colder with climate change anyone?

Nothing hee is contradictory except the contradictory nature of 'climate chaos' as outlined in the science journals. Of course the big impacts continues apace - ice melting, drought intensification in Africa, flash flooding everywhere else giving birth to the UK's first monsoon season. etc etc..

ToddisGod
24 August 2007 at 17:39

Mysticatom ; according to your theories climate change is unfalseifiable, thats the hallmark of a poor hypotheses, please try harder...

taghioff.info
27 August 2007 at 08:05

TodisGod (but who is Tod)

"Try living in a Third World country"

I am, in India. The natural resource base per capita here is tiny. 77% of the people live on less than 20 rupees (30p) a day. They spend all their money on food. Do you have any idea what food price rises, already setting in, combined with climate-base disruption of agriculture will do to these people?

"Meanwhile the vast majority of us will continue to fly, consume etc whilst the hairshirts weave their own yoghurt. A hundred or so hippies in a field does not equal a mass movement does it?"

Those "hippies" in a field tend to have Phds. This is a well informed movement. Most people want to keep consuming, especially the poor in India. But if people like you don't wise up, then not only will the poor in India not live to see the day when they start really getting richer, but also the end of YOUR lifespan, Tod/God, will see a drastic fall in living standards and consumption patterns.

Yes development is a good thing, which is why we want it to be able to keep going, that's what sustainable means.

grein
27 August 2007 at 10:45

"From an environmentalist perspective, this is all to the good: the more flying becomes an inconvenient and unpleasant experience, the less people will want to do it." I read this while I was stuck in an airport, and I can only wish Mr Lynas that for the sake of the environment, he never enjoys clean water from pipes nor city heating anymore.

ToddisGod
27 August 2007 at 12:55

Sustainable is just anther mealy mouthed word for subsistence...

mysticatom
27 August 2007 at 18:09

Todisgod:

Oh well todd, I guess thats that then - its not falsifiable; though it's all trueifying before our very eyes wherever we look. Even Bush has conceded defeat as his denial is unfalsifiable as well as non trueificatory.

Karl Popper would turn in his grave at your abuse of his philosophy.

ToddisGod
28 August 2007 at 01:37

Hey Mystic, how you doing! : )

taghioff.info
28 August 2007 at 04:24

Yes and subsistence is a mealy-mouthed word for survival.

If we get the basics right, maybe we have a chance of more.

Douglas Coker
28 August 2007 at 17:46

Strange reading the nonsense posted by the last of the sceptics. I really don't know why they bother. The scientific consensus on anthropogenic global warming is clearly established.

The task now is to change our behaviour rapidly to dramatically reduce CO2 emissions.

Douglas Coker

ToddisGod
28 August 2007 at 20:44

The task now is to upgrade development in Africa etc along the lines of what we have, after all its how we got the standard of living we have now...

taghioff.info
29 August 2007 at 08:48

Tod...

We developed under strikingly different conditions than exist today

A lot of what we have got now comes from extraction from Africa and Asia. So where exactly is Africa going to extract from in order to develop in the way we have?

If you read "Africa: Up in Smoke" or "Africa up in Smoke 2" from the New Economics Foundation and the IIED, you will realise that development in Africa will bet two steps forward, ten steps back unless climate change mitigation is addressed.

Yes it would help Africans to adapt if they were richer, but the challenge is to bring that about whilst avoiding signing our own collective death warrant.

ToddisGod
30 August 2007 at 00:13

taghioff;

What Africa needs is the infrastructure we have, then they can cope better with any problems, why should they have to stay at a low level of development just to suit you?Africa is rich with minerals oil etc they just need our level of development to realise their potential

Time and again greens shy away from technological solutions to problems (Nuclear power), this is because they are anti affluence anti growth anti progress anti development, they arent really interested in helping the 3rd world to develop , they want to keep them in "their place"...at a subsistence level .Id like to see you tell Africans that you wont allow them to have our standard of living - lets see you try it and see what kind of response you get shall we?

gnuneo
30 August 2007 at 19:51

tod, are you completely mad?

pray tell exactly how is africa going to develop not only the technology to build nuclear power stations, but where the technological and structural knowledge base is going to come from to maintain them?

you are the classic ignoramus, who knows absolutely *nothing* about development, and assumes it possible, even apparently plausible, to dump 20th cent tech upon an essentially pre-technological society, and believes that this will magically then transform their lives!

there is the classic story about the tractors sent to africa to aid in their 'agricultural revolution', (and of course to look good on the 'aid' balance whilst actually being a back-hander to the domestic tractor producers), so the tractors got there, there was problem of access to fuel, no spare parts possible, and a complete lack of trained mechanics to actually the fix the things anyway - so within a few months, they became stationary objects for the kids to play in.

great for the kids, but not really much development!

and if you actually talk to africans who have travelled to the 1st world, you will also soon discover that many of them simply don't want the rampant consumerism of today's west - they would far prefer the sustainable model, as they can clearly see the insanity caused in westerners by the constant demand to keep up with the new 'fashions', in clothes, cars, computers and even toasters.

do they want development? Yes, of course they do, but they want it to be locally sustainable, locally repairable, simple tech like wind pumps for wells to create running water (which also doesn't need constant commitment to electricity companies to keep running), bio-solar cooking equipment, solar heating for water tanks so they have warm/hottish water - again, without needing centrally controlled electricity supplies.

wind-up radios, bicycles that can be repaired locally, things like that.

this is why the grameen bank has done infinitely more to raise the standard of living for the poorest across the world than the large-scale neo-marxist industrial giant projects, that inevitably fail and plunge the african people into even worse debt.

ideas such as the '$100 laptop for school' projects, whilst in this case not repairable locally, would have a vastly greater effect upon rural populations than any enormous nuclear power plant, no matter you have a hard on for one.

perhaps you should actually study even a *little* about the conditions and requirements in these places, before you spout off. Radical thought, hey?

ToddisGod
30 August 2007 at 22:58

Africans are just like all other humans , they want the best for themselves and their kids, they want what weve got , but youd rather see them stick to bicycles and wind up radios, shame on you ...

http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php?/site/article/3771/

gnuneo
02 September 2007 at 14:01

wow, so you found an african film-maker who thinks that rampant materialism is good, that there should be MORE jet travel, that global warming is a benefit, and that the very programs that have managed to kick-start real development across the 3rd world (i refer to the grameen bank, most definitely not to the larger scale govt projects he correctly maligns, and incorrectly claims are connected together - the grameen bank has no connection to the IMF or any similar organisation) are "holding africa back".

he is in fact an african tory - well, smack me round the head for not caring about someone's skin colour when i look at their ideas, but frankly he can shove it.

europe did not develop because someone waltzed in a built a nuclear power station in the middle of it, europe developed because the grip on wealth and power by the elites was cracked (precisely by such mechanisms that the grameen bank emulates), which allowed the basis for a growing consumer base, ergo local production, ergo employment, ergo local income, ergo local power, ergo local political movements, ergo democracy.

y'see, growth is organic, it requires many elements to be successful and sustainable - actually you don't see, and neither does this guy. You are both 'tractors to africa' types, except you seem to have 'evolved' to "nuclear power plants to africa", an ohhh so much better idea for sure.

yeah right.

peace.

Bambini
04 September 2007 at 10:32

I live in London. Yesterday in my bakery there was a sign that explained the recent price rise in baked goods; increased wheat prices due to drought in wheat producing areas (from Australia to Eastern Europe) and the increased demand on grains for biofuel. I think everyone should really be worrying that global warming is starting to nibble away at the availiability of such a staple good.

My dad always said (and he's right about everything) that people in the first world will only start to care about climate change when it affects their access to basic goods like bread, milk and petrol.

I guess it doesn't matter if you are really rich and do all your shopping at Kensington Whole Foods or whatever, but what about the parents of the one in four children in this country born into poverty? And even they have it pretty good compared to the poorest people of somewhere like Bangladesh.

What if this is just the beginning? The wholesale price of wheat has gone up by 43% and corn has doubled, what will it be like next year, and the year after?

Can we all please start really worrying now and actually do something about it and quit quibbling with lame-o excuses like 'other planets are getting warmer' and 'china is building two coal powered stations a year' and 'we could have a few volcanic eruptions..'? Christ on a bike!! You sound like spoilt little fat kids explaining why you don't need to share any of your pie.

Well you know what greedy little piglets? Guess who's door we'll be kicking down in 10 or 20 years time when a loaf of bread is beyond the financial reach of average joe? Pig on a spit will look pretty good to a hungry Average Joe.

Pat T
25 January 2008 at 22:23

Bambini - I paid for the pie with my money, and I earned the money, and it has nothing to do with you. Buy your own pie, or if you choose not to eat pie, then don't eat it - and leave the rest of us alone.

The idea that my wealth or consumption comes at the expense of yours is a fallacy - that has long been established as a matter of economics.

You attempt to remove the question from economics and turn it into an environmental issue but it's no less a fallacy than it ever was.

As for poverty, it's driven largely by immigration - entirely by immigration in my country, actually. Americans aren't slipping into poverty, but rather poor people are slipping into America.

But that's neither here nor there - the point is, if you've got to go to Thailand what does the author expect you to do, take a six week cruise? The bottom line is there is no reason it is anyone else's business. You can speak in terms of tonnes of CO2 but in proportion to the atmosphere the amount of CO2 that mankind has put into the atmosphere since my country decided to part ways with yours is less than 1/11,000th.

Protesting that isn't the most important thing going, it's just foolishness.

Pat T
25 January 2008 at 22:26

By the way they've had droughts before. In my country the pueblo indians (American Southwest) had to leave their homes over 800 years ago because of droughts worse than the kind predicted with another 100 years of global warming.

What do you supposed caused them?

Warming - warming not caused by us.

That now there is - well, I mean, recently there was - warming that roughly coincided with the Industrial Revolution does not imply that the one caused the other.

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About the writer

Mark Lynas is a climate change writer and activist, author of the acclaimed book 'High Tide' and fortnightly columnist for the New Statesman. He was selected by National Geographic as an 'Emerging Explorer' for 2006, and blogs on www.marklynas.org

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