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Anyone care about carers?
- Posted by James Medhurst
- 28 June 2007
They talk a good talk, but do the politicians or anyone else for that matter really care about the carers
One of Gordon Brown’s last acts as Chancellor of the Exchequer was to host a reception at Downing Street to celebrate Carers' Week. He described carers as a “remarkable group in society; a lifeline for millions of people who rely on their compassion and dedication,” and few would disagree.
Unlike, say, single mothers or illegal immigrants, even the most virulent right-wing commentator would find it difficult to write a bad word to about carers and it is recognised that they are people for whom the word ‘scrounger’ would be singly inappropriate.
However, there is another side to this apparent gratitude. Although no-one would grudge them the limited support they already receive from the state, there is little evidence of a desire in mainstream politics for them to be entitled to any more, despite the vital work that they do. It seems that their goodwill and generosity is there to be exploited.
The main social security benefit is Carer’s Allowance of £48.65 a week, which works out at a paltry £1.39 per hour for a person caring for 35 hours a week. This is the minimum time commitment required to qualify but many carers work considerably more hours than this without an increase in their benefits, and this makes it extremely difficult for them to have a paid job as well. It is remarkable that they receive much less than people who are on Income Support.
The logic of the government for the rate seems to be that, because the person receiving the care will necessarily have an award of Disability Living Allowance, the cost of caring for them will already be covered and the carer only has to provide a rather large chunk of spare time. However, the lowest rate of DLA is only £17.10 a week and, perhaps because few ministers have to do their own shopping, they are unrealistic about how far this money will stretch. Such a small income is usually inadequate to cover the expenses required for their care and so the carer must often absorb these costs as well.
Disability Living Allowance can be awarded to people who work or are receiving other benefits, the rationale being that it covers the cost of being disabled, rather than providing a basic income. A similar reasoning clearly should apply in the case of Carers Allowance, which ought to compensate carers for their time and effort, not just allow them to subsist if it is impossible for them to enter paid employment.
Nevertheless, in a simply striking demonstration of the fact that logic and policy do not go hand in hand, Carers Allowance is removed from people who receive more than a limited income from other sources, such as an old-age pension, a problem for the many carers over 65. A tiny supplement is added to their existing benefits instead. It is a shame that caring is not seen as real work which is worthy of financial reward in its own right, regardless of surrounding circumstances.
Despite all this, like disabled people, most carers would rather work than stay on benefits, given half the chance. The problem is that their employment rights are rather limited. A right now exists for a carer to request flexible working from an employer but there is no requirement that any such request be granted.
This could all change as a result of the case of Sharon Coleman, who is suing a former employer under the Disability Discrimination, Act, with the claim that discrimination against a carer qualifies as being “on the grounds of disability.” If the European Court of Justice accepts this argument then maybe the tide will begin to turn in favour of carers, who will start to get the recognition they deserve.
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51 comments from readers
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OBChris
29 June 2007 at 07:50 Excellent ...... please cross reference this article with an ongoing Thread on the Compass site ...... carers on mass are making our plight known to anyone with an interest , especially those concerned with social inequality \ justice \ exclusion.
By number of postings , the largest Thread by volume :
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Clive (UK Carers)
29 June 2007 at 10:23 All talk and kind words. It means nothing to Carers.
Gordon Brown hosted a reception for charities NOT Carers or Carers organisations please clarify that as it is one of the main gripes of Carers. Yet again the 2 most inept charities (Carers UK and the Princess Royal Trust for Carers who have dramatically FAILED in 40 years of existence in one form or another to better the lives of Carers BUT have made dramatic inroads in increasing their own salaries) were allowed to voice THEIR VIEW of what Carers want Carers were AS USUAL exempt and excluded, in a similar way that actual Carers are not allowed input into places like the DCS forum.
UK Carers is the leading independent Carers support group is constantly ignored by the media and politicians, especially by politicians such as Barbara Keeley who will not disclose the disparaging remarks made by her office in emails regarding Carers EVEN when asked for information under the FOI act.
In short, Carers UK and the PRTC will 'speak' for Carers who will continue to get exploited by government, the same government that provides the main source of 'income' for these 2 charities, until the media talk to Carers that aren't hand-picked by these 2 charities and have fire in their bellies things won't change, Compass sure as hell won't be able to influence ANYONE regarding Carers.
You want to see the 'real face of Carers' then try 'www.ukcarers.org.uk' no one their makes ANY financial gain from supporting Carers unlike the obscene salaries people like Imelda Redmond from Carers UK makes (over £60.000 a year plus a good pension, people can verify that by checking their accounts on the Charity Commission's web site)
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Rosemary
29 June 2007 at 13:36 Thanks to James for an excellent piece and I can assure you it does mean something to carers.The fact that at times we rely heavily on the media to highlight our circumstances means anything in print goes a long way to achieving this.This article explains in full just how much is involved for a carer to receive such a paltry sum.
Early hours of this morning when I found the article, I emailed the link to several other carers and they, together with myself posted it on a few carer forums.It has been highly praised by more than just myself.
This ticking time bomb regarding carers is not going away but is going to explode soon.Its now gone past the stage of..IF anyone can help but it has to be something addressed NOW with the mental attitude of..HOW can I/we/you/this government help.
Although many carers are family members,we say time and time again that it could affect any one at any time.Many have gave careers up to take on a caring role,many will have to make that choice in the future.As it stands, they have no idea of the financial/emotional repercussions on their lives.
Benefits and care services if not addressed by this or any other government, will be what brings it to its knees.Can we/you but more importantly any government afford to allow that to happen.Can Gordon Brown be the man to make the changes necessary to enable carers and their loved ones to have a decent quality of life,to get some out of the poverty they live in due to out dated rules and regulations.Today it is carers like us fighting this battle,tomorrow it could be YOU.
It has been been implied that carers who belong to CUK and PRTC have no fire in their bellies.That could not be further from the truth.Read their forums and others like them and you will see the passion in many carers trying to fight for a better standard of living.
Whether Compass can help remains to be seen but its another door to try.You can almost feel this tidal wave of carers gathering momentum.Newspapers/TV report more now about carers than ever before.The pressure has to continue in every direction possible but with the same goal in mind,a decent quality of life for BOTH the carer and the one cared for.
Thank you for your time reading this.
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wendy
29 June 2007 at 15:21 "All talk and kind words" means a lot to carers who for so long have felt the forgotten ones.
Thank you James for an excellent article.
I agree with Chris as well.
Carers Uk and The Princess Royal Trust for Carers remain the two main boards which most carers turn to in times of trouble.
They remain steadfast and true to carers in my opinion, and this is what I hear from the members on my carers website. www.chill4us.com
We are all carers or past carers and would love you to take a look and see how carers survive each day. Many have lost hope but as Rosemary says, I believe that there will be changes ahead.
thank you
Wendy
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Clive (UK Carers)
29 June 2007 at 16:28 Kind words do not pay the bills to enable Carers to keep warm in winter, kind words do not give you the money to afford a break.
You want second rate services then feel free to rely on the 2 named government funded charities. They both have their fawning followers that have their own petty rivalries and 'agendas' Carers deserve better than that.
As the "2 main boards" are struggling to even get their OWN supporters to post, their memberships are falling and will fall even further when the membership fee is introduced, calling them the boards that most Carers go to in times of trouble is a statement that isn't provable and at odds with the facts, in fact I have contact with MANY Carers that these 2 charities have steadfastly REFUSED to help.
I stand by my remark that the supporters have no fire in their bellies, the hand-picked
supporters 'trolled' in front of the media (on the few occasions the media IS interested) look like rabbits caught in car headlights.
The only Carers support group actually fighting or interested in fighting is in fact UK Carers who refuse to be fobbed off or talked down to, everywhere else is a akin to clone forums, gentle tea rooms reflecting on the nicer side of life.
If change is to happen it won't come about because of some letter and email campaign, that's been done and proved to fail, change will come from direct action or a few more Carer suicides IE something that embarrasses the government of the day.
Oh, Compass, old style leftie Labour? Yes, that'll have a great influence on everyone I don't think, the 'tidal wave' is more of a gentle ripple in reality
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Cheryl
29 June 2007 at 16:42 Many thanks to James for the article concerning Carers.
One of Mr Brown's last acts as Chancellor of the Exchequer was to host a reception for Carers Week.
He described carers as a “remarkable group in society; a lifeline for millions of people who rely on their compassion and dedication,” and few would disagree.
Carers all over the country will be hoping
that as Priminster one of Mr Brown first acts will be to prioritise improving Carers situations.
We will be relying on Mr Brown and his Cabinet of Ministers to show as much compassion and dedication to removing the hair shirt of poverty from Carers backs, as Carers have shown in persevering with looking after the people who rely on us.
If Mr Brown is prepared to listen and has as an equal commitment to easing Carers problems as Carers have already shown to their carees, then no doubt he will find a way to make a great improvement to our lives.
As the above posts have mentioned Carers feel they are forgotten.
They resent their problems and struggles being pushed on to the back burner for so long. And the pot is begun to boil over.
Carers are increasing finding the will, and the way, to speak up for themselves, and as a collective voice.
In my view it isn't just the Government of the day that will be brought to its knees.
It is the whole of society.
It is the Governments job to keep track of the mood and developing trends in this country and it is the Governments job to inform the rest of society where that mood/trend is heading.
If the whole of society knew of, and understood the difficulties that Carers cope with every day of their lives they would not begrudge them the extra revenue and help that they so urgently need.
It would indeed be foolish for society to hold back their support, because tomorrow it could well be any one of them in need.
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Kate
29 June 2007 at 17:47 Chris,Rosemary,great postings.Covered so much in words most carers will relate to.
Without Hope Wendy we may as well give up now.You have seen/heard and experienced so many carers stories,yet onward they go, day in day out.Changes are coming for one simple reason.This government will soon have no choice.
Forum boards are used for a multitude of reasons.Like Clive said, some are akin to tearooms but that is fine for those who choose that.We should not sit in judgement on those who wish to frequent said forums, if that is where they find help and support needed to see them through their difficulties.
Stand by any of your remarks Clive as I would expect no less of any person but please dont say others dont have fire just because they belong elsewhere.You do them and the people they care for a great injustice.
Changes will not happen because of one man/one group but due to a culmination of actions taken by many but with the same aim.
Compass !!! You make your thoughts about them well known yet ask your own members to write a piece for their main site??
Tidal wave or gentle ripple.Both can have far reaching affects just one is more subtle than the other.
Cheryl,I am aware of the letter you created and you deserve credit for the attempt.If we dont try,how can we expect to succeed.Doing nothing is Failure.Each and ANY action by individuals/groups have to continue.
Negativity has no place in our cause.We must be postive not just in our own beliefs but those of EVERY carer who ATTEMPTS to do something.
I wish Chris,Clive,Rosemary,Wendy and Cheryl and every other carer campaigning for change much luck and best wishes.
Thank you James for an article that has brought forth these comments.
Kate
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Cheryl
30 June 2007 at 08:29 Thank you Kate for your encouragement and good wishes. I sincerely hope that other Carers take notice of the positive and proactive views posted here.
I agree 100% with the view that negativity and discouragement should have no place
in any Carers attempts and ideas to keep Carers in the media.
The more that society in general read, see and hear of Carers lives the more likely that we will gain support.
The more Carers that speak up and add their voice to any campaign the better. Unfortunately as I've discovered since I became involved in trying to bring Carers problems to the media attention the possability of attracting the attention of Mr Arnold has put many Carers off from even posting a comment any where on the internet.
It amazes me that a Carer purporting to have only other Carers interest at heart has done so much harm and been the cause of unhappiness to the very people who have often supported and praised his own efforts.
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wendy
30 June 2007 at 11:07 Thank you Kate and Cheryl.
I wish we could all work together for the benefit of carers.
Mr Arnold has a great deal to offer carers but he will not listen to others and thinks he can do it all on his own.
If there was some way we could all get together and do what we are each good at and stop this silly criticism of the major charities, then we could begin to make progress.
We do not live in a perfect world and of course sometimes the charities have to say no to a request. That will never change.
But they are there to speak out when needed, because it is their job. They can drop everything in an instant whereas a carer is unable to do that.
To say that any carer is compared to a rabbit I find is offensive and underestimates their worth.
I am afraid Mr Arnold is incorrect in saying he is the only carer support group fighting or indeed interested, there are many other carer support groups on the internet doing exactly that. Their good intentions are to let society know the difficulties a carer faces every day and night and campaign for more support and better conditions.
They are run by carers as best they can, whenever then caring role allows, for the benefit of carers not only offering a place of respite on the internet but also to campaign for the rights of carers.
I say to Mr Arnold please listen to what other carers groups are saying.
Wendy
Chill4usCarers
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Tony Rhodes
30 June 2007 at 12:23 I am very saddened by all this bickering that seems to be going on amongst carers groups and individuals, just imagine if all that talent got together they could achieve many things, instead they waste their energies squabling like young children in a playground, come on people, open your eyes, the government must love all this infighting it means that the pressure is taken off them, lets redirect our anger, frustrations towards the carers real enemy, the government. I have known or do know many of the people who have posted on this site, they all have very valid points to make and all have untold experience when it comes to carers problems, but some of this vitriol is really uncalled for and only damages peoples opinions of carers as a whole.
I had joined many carer groups and forums but found that some were very political, some were very like the WI, but all have their qualities, some positive and some negative, the one thing that put me off though was some people like to make personal attacks on other carers, i too in the past have done this but now realise my mistake, thats why i started my own group and that is the only rule, no personal attacks or bullying, there are nearly six million carers in the UK if only we could all get together, just imagine the power we as carers would have, the government would have to take notice of six million of us, that should be the aim of all of us to unite and get what carers rightfully deserve, please stop the fighting and aim the pain, anger and frustration in the correct direction.
Tony Rhodes(National Carers Forum)
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Amy
01 July 2007 at 09:54 ,
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Amy
01 July 2007 at 09:55 The possibility of attracting the attention of Mr. Arnold puts many Carers off posting on the internet? I have looked at many care forums and UKcarers stands up with the best. After reading there, on looking at your letter Cheril, it seems the only Carers who attract negative attention are those who launch a personal attack on him.
The anger and frustration felt by Carers is valid and understandable, but needs to be directed at the government, who are the only people who can relieve this intolerable situation.
Good luck to all Carers
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Tony Rhodes
01 July 2007 at 11:19 Carers should not let any one individual put them off using the internet or posting on any forums, these places should feel a safe place to express your views and opinions, bullying or frightening vulnerable people who may not agree with your point of view is just plain out of order. Nothing will be achieved trying to turn one group against each other, armies would never achieve their goals and aims if everyone just fought their own individual battles, they all pull together to fight a particular enemy and that way they are strong and united in their aim, that way they win, they defeat their enemy, in our case, that enemy is the government . I have said this before but six million carers could be a force to reckon with i shall say no more on this subject.
Tony Rhodes
National Carers Forum
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Cheryl
03 July 2007 at 22:45 Your right Tony. No Carer should be intimidated into being put off from posting.
But they are. Probably because they are already tired and stressed, and can't tolerate the additional hassle.
Words and Werewolves.
It is an enormous failing of the internet that
a bully can get a way with being just that, a bully. If this was going on face to face in public, it would be stopped.
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Clive (UK Carers)
05 July 2007 at 15:29 After 14 years of being a Carer, being disabled BECAUSE of my caring role and NOT wanting to see any other person getting into a similar state as myself makes me DAMN angry, if people don't like what I do or where I run then they are under no obligation to read or post (unlike other Carers sites where you have to join before seeing and reading what they do, which to my mind is being to secretive and underhand, OR you need to take part in their petty feuds and swear allegiance OR do both) though the amount of hits proves that far from putting people OFF it actually is gaining in hits, perhaps it's the honesty that people appreciate, perhaps it's the integrity they appreciate, perhaps it's the fact that I personally don't want personal attention or sycophantic praise, whatever it is the fact remains, UK Carers is the only OPEN honest place, it's so popular that other Carers have 'used' it for their own personal agendas.
There IS no place like ours, granted we take no prisoners but we appeal to people who want something different, some place that has strong leadership.
Nice try at a slur Cheryl if that was aimed at me, a bully I am not,a bull-s**t spotter I am, care to inform these nice readers to what you called me on my own message board please? For which you were not banned/sanctioned or warned about. In real life I am the same, I praise the honest and decent people and shun the users of this world...thinking about it I'm amazed I'm responding to you here!!!
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Cheryl
05 July 2007 at 22:28 Nobody hates you Clive. Sometimes the way you put things upset people, hurt their feelings, or they're just plain tired of hearing the same stuff about the charities etc over and over.
The most important part of many of your posts/messages is lost in the midst of a rant about the uselessness of the charity sites. Or the feebleness of other sites.
You you rubbished the Carers Letter, maybe your right, maybe it won't do any good. The other side is will it do any harm?
You've tracked the Carers Letter where ever it's posted, and made derogotory untrue remarks about me on the open internet. I insulted you in your forum, where you control what stays on the message board. With hind sight I wish I hadn't let rip
as I did. Not because I've changed my mind about the impression that i got from that particular thread. But because I said what I said on the spur of the moment when I was angry. Not the best frame of mind to make decisions in.
It suited you to remove the Carers Letter thread. If it had suited you to remove my comment about you, you would have done it. You always had that option.
I've said this before. Before you started taking a pot shot on me on the open internet, not insulting Cheril The Peril, but my family name, my husbands family name.
I didnt post comments about you outside of your own forum, you always had the option to argue back or delete my comment, your choice. Other people posted comments about you on other sites, I'm not responsable for what other people do.
Rock bottom Clive, you might not like to admit it, but we are very much alike. We are both scrappers, both sarcastic, and we'll both hit out at people who hurt us.
Pity about the people in the middle.
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John
06 July 2007 at 07:59 I just wanted to clarify somehing. Clive keeps claiming that his board is accesible to all and you don't need to join to read it. That is incorrect as certain parts e.g the carersuk bit you are unable to see unless you are a member. So clive please stop putting that false view across or change the permissions on your forum.
I'm afraid Clive you are a bully you have driven many people away from the boards and the caring communities. I know you will never see that yourself because of course you are always right and the rest of us are plain wrong and stupid to not see what you do arn't we!
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Pysie
07 July 2007 at 00:09 I am a full-time carer for my mother.
Several years ago I had a break-down caused by a bullying situation at work whilst trying to care for Mum single-handedly. My job at that time was to advise people of their benefit entitlement. I was also a licensed Reader (C of E lay preacher) with a special interest in supporting the elderly and disabled plus, especially, their carers.
In the past I had worked for the Charity Commission and have a good understanding of Charity Law. Whilst I am not a party-political animal, I have also been involved heavily in local politics and try to keep up to date with national political trends - especially those concerning carers.
Having been forced to give up work through ill health, I joined various on-line carers' forums with the idea that my experience and knowledge might be used to help others. Like all carers, I am particularly interested in obtaining a fair 'wage' for the work we do.
I applauded Cheryl's letter and did my best to promote it in every way possible. I finally secured the backing of Carers UK and the Princess Royal Trust for Carers to publicise this initiative in their newsletters and on their web-sites, and to take it into all their carers centres.
As a result, I found myself threatened and intimidated by Clive and others and booted off the UK Carers site. I even received an intimidatory personal email (which I should have taken to the police).
All the old feelings of panic and anxiety associated with bullying returned. I vowed then that I would have no more to do with any carers' site. I have not published any message since, and I have not even bothered to view any sites. (A close friend told me about this thread.)
But why should I let a bully dictate my life?
Clive - I will not let you destroy me as a person, and I will not let you stop me helping other carers who are in need of help and support. I can vouch from personal experience that you are no more than a self-centred bully who couldn't give a damn about the people you hurt. And you drive people away - not only from your own site, but from all carers' sites.
For the sake of all carers, have some compassion and stop this stupid one-man crusade which is destroying us all. Look into your heart and find the love that you had at the start. You are not hurting the government by your attitude, you are hurting your fellow carers.
Love, Pysie xx
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Pansy
08 July 2007 at 07:53 What is the matter with you all. Here we are with a well written article that raises awareness of some of the problems that Carers face and all you can do is have a go at another Carer!
Such ill judged and ill phrased remarks as in the last posts have nothing whatsoever to do with the article, but are obviously just a personal vendetta.
If you have something personal against Mr. Arnold, take it up with him in a more appropriate place.
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Tam
08 July 2007 at 22:00 The reason Mr Arnold has attracted this attention is because he has asked for it on his board, and replies to be posted on this thread. http://www.artemis-media.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=4181
Self publicity takes many forms.
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Tony Rhodes
09 July 2007 at 14:15 Clive ,saying that your ukcarers is the only place where honesty and truth is spoken is i believe wrong, you cannot acuse me of not telling the truth i tell it how it is and always have done, i campaigm in my way, sometimes on my own and sometimes with the help of others, but one thing i always do and thats tell the truth, my forum may be small and may never reach your large number of members but i try my hardest to make people welcome and comfortable, my only rule at the moment on my forum is no bullying or personal attacks, i dont want any of that.
Clive i have said this before, you have much talent and i think that you would feel better in yourself if you aimed more at the government and not your fellow carers/ex-carers, we are not the enemy.
Tony Rhodes( National Carers Forum)
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Clive (UK Carers)
15 July 2007 at 00:02 Urm excuse me, I did NOT ask people to post on here, I set up a thread on a message board for those people that wanted to say what they thought of me if they didn't like me, slight mistake (either intentional or not) and if asking people to say they dislike you is seeking publicity then that's a way I haven't tried yet, I might give it a go if I thought it would help Carers but I don't honestly think it will.
The letter, fail, countless examples of petitions and letter campaigns that have been ignored by governments and I can go into further detail to back that up, short answers as it's late and I still have a lot to do.
Bully? hmm, from a god fearing person that has posted countless lies about me? Odd logic, also people that know me would tell people that DON'T know me that I encourage them to post where they like, seems some people here prefer to tell people NOT to post where they like! In fact to dictate what they post, I have even ignored a lie about my being in trouble with the police on one site, who would post something so libelous as that? Anyone brave enough to admit it?
Tony, apologies, I know what you are doing and I take that back about your site, not trying to demean your site and people.
Carers UK thread, sorry that's my fault, I had to alter the 'permissions' on the board and I must have screwed that thread up, that will be corrected soon as I can get around to it.
Don't have a go at anyone but the government? sorry, if someone or somewhere is contributing to Carers living the way they do and being exploited and used then they have my contempt as they are as big a contributing factor as the government and the Carer charities (who we all know get most of their funds direct from the government of the day)
As I said, I seem to be attracting a lot of people considering I'm driving them away?!! Self centred? Again an odd 'view'
Anyway I don't go for 'censoring' what people say or tell them where to post, people are free to do as they will as far as I am concerned (it's the adult thing to do you know?) Seems some people think different ANYWAY, it's approaching midnight, still stuff to do (I have a couple of things that need working on for a couple of Carers, ain't I selfish and self-centred)
Now if anyone would like to point out in my original post any mistakes, any untruths then feel free to.
BTW, the piece might seem well written but Carers know it's the usual stuff, we read it almost daily, nothing new, nothing helpful (sorry author, it's just how things are and I really am NOT trying to belittle the article, just being realistic) it's just words.
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John
15 July 2007 at 16:18 Your attracting a lot of carers mmm. Confused at that statement as 300 registered memebers but only a handful that havent left or still post.
Tour idea of a lot and mine are totally different then.
I'm afraid Clive if your unable/unwilling to work with others you really won't get anywhere so your just continue with your shouting and self promotion.
As for you not censoring now thats a lie if i ever heard one.
This is the quote you made on your board
"So for THE PEOPLE WHO HATE CLIVE (and I know I'll probably live to regret this thread) HERE is the chance to vent your spleen about me." the capitals contained the link to this as. So i think thats asking people to post here.
I think Psyie's views some up a huge opinion of peoples experiences of dealing with you. Talking to lots of other carers most people look on you as a bully and your site as a bit of a joke. With that sort of image from the people you claim to and wish to represent there is little hope of much hope from uk carers
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Clive (UK Carers)
15 July 2007 at 23:19 I'll have to tell our web hosting company that we aren't getting that many visitors to our sites, they'd be pleased with hearing that BUT I know they would disagree with you, in fact we use an AWFUL lot of bandwidth, can't imagine how that stands up to what you have said and I'm sure that they would confirm that to you if you asked them.
It's similar to the mention of the use of capitals in the link to here, if you read our message board on a regular basis (and you obviously do) you would see all my links are done in capitals (don't go hiding away now) and could you just confirm, was the "HERE" part of the active link? It wasn't now was it you little tinker or where you just trying to decive people? Very few of the links I do are NOT done in capitals, now are you not telling the truth hoping someone might think you know what you are talking about? I started that thread up so as to avoid people blocking this site up, didn't work though and my apologies to the New Statesmans but the drivel that is coming out here in an attempt to talk down how well we are doing is stunning.
I allow people to post what they like regardless of swearing and even allowing people to rant at or about me without altering of deleting their posts, care to explain your view of censorship?
I doubt very much you talk to "lots of Carers" you may talk to a few and those few are probably the ones helping keep the stereotyping of Carers going, you know the one, the post menopausal women wittering on about how "life is unfair and isn't it a shame we are treated like this, pass the wool and would you like a scone with your tea dear" Carers are a hardier breed than that and I'm proud to be part of UK Carers as are many others, there is no one like us.
Self promotion, you obviously chose to ignore or haven't read that I did not want any gain or to be on the radio or TV or any other type of media as I am (was) a person who liked their privacy who didn't want their life 'out there' for people to read or see, again an odd view of yours but at least you are consistent in your inconsistency. Also I speak only for myself as I ask others to do for themselves, I represent no one, others put their trust and faith in me and I REALLY appreciate that, it's humbling so I do my best by them and if there's little hope UK Carers can get change for Carers then there's NO HOPE of other insipid intellectual and toothless cliquey other groups getting change....care to put the replies that have been received from the letter? Go on, I'll post replies WE got from 2 years ago and I bettcha they are almost word for word the same.
Oh, last thing, look at Carers UK, 3000 members and they claim to be "the voice of Carers" (unless their trustees say otherwise), almost 400 members of their forum and only a handful of people post, going by your first statement we are doing as well as them (sigh that was easy)
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Clive (UK Carers)
16 July 2007 at 14:37 To th ejournalist that did the original article, please look here
http://www.artemismedia.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=34081#3408...
and see exactly how much Carers Allowance has risen in the last 13 years and then you might realise why some of us are fed up with being exploited and becoming more and more angry
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kenm
25 July 2007 at 11:32 Well--one thing the above posts show is that carers are fed up!!--Even of each other LOL.
I have spent more than half my 65 years of life caring for my wife and had to fight for every little thing. I found out the hard way that "nice" doesn't work and never will.
How anybody can defend the inadequacy of the two main carer charities is beyond belief - they are there -funded by the government to fool the public into thinking we carers are looked after.
I have lost hope of any improvement in my life and would advise anyone faced with the prospect of becoming a carer-DON'T-- leave it to the state -that is the only way carers will ever be valued, when the true cost is found by the burden being placed on the country.
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treborc
16 August 2007 at 11:38 God almighty, I am now 56 years of age and have been a carer since the age of 9, first for my mother then for my wife. In all those years I've never had one day off, never had a holiday, and never ever moaned until now.
I married my wife who has spina bifida my mother had a car accident, I could have walked away, I could have gone onto Direct payments and employed a carer, but nope I did it without getting the so called caring allowance.
So why am I writing this well it's annoying to see these so called charities which state they are fighting for us, because these charities and Forums are really political groups.
In 1991 while in work I broke my back with a partial lesion of the spinal cord my working days were over, how do I carer for my wife I contacted all charities which were going in those days all were willing to help by fighting for my rights to have more money, but not one of them said well as a charity we will send down somebody to help you out.
Cross Roads a local real charity did, they sent people each day to look after my wife while I was in hospital, put in place the forms for direct payments to employ a carer, thats a charity not these political so called carers groups, fine be a Political group but stop calling your self charities your not.
And for god sake if your going to fight fight the government because Clive you getting boring each time I see you it's the same dam thing, we are the best the rest are rubbish, in fact your no different at all.
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Pysie
18 August 2007 at 12:35 Hi, Treborc,
It sounds as though you have had a basin-full. We carers don't often moan about our lot. It is looked upon as a privilege and a duty to sacrifice one's life to care for a loved-one, but some of us have cottoned onto the fact that we are just being used by the government as cheap labour and no-one could give a damn about our life-style or the stress we are under.
Not all the forums are run by charities. There are independent message-boards which are run by carers themselves and which are not subsidised by, or linked to, the government or any one else. Some of them are political with a small 'p' in the sense that we are trying to encourage a unified voice of all carers and actually DO something about our situation.
Have a look at www.carersunited.myfineforum.org. There you will find links to other independent message boards as well as information about how we are trying to fight together for a fair deal. Oh, and you'll find a warm welcome from friends - and NO in-fighting!!!
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Clive (UK Carers)
18 August 2007 at 14:02 You can't look at carersunited as it's a members only message board so that idea is a little silly.
And there is no 'unified' alliance for Carers, just a few sparsely populated places (like carersunited, a contradiction in terms also) most places are cozy little cliquey places that try to make gains by lies and innuendos (still not apologised for the lies you have stated about me personally Pysie BTW, in your own time though)
None are making ground or attracting government attention, well we are but that's a 'given'
As for who I fight then I have to say I'll fight anyone that tried to exploit Carers, be that government or other people that want to make personal gain out of what they do but also I will work with people that want to help Carers, up to know that isn't many I know but we are working on it.
Every time you see me saying the same damn thing it is because it's true, no lies, no bullshit no hidden or secret tactics or agendas, I don't believe in hiding things or lying, that's what make us (UK Carers) unique, people will have to judge us on what we do and we HAVE caused the charities to 'up their game' since we started, they are still failing but at lest they have had to edge slightly out of their comfort zone BECAUSE OF US.
As for no in-fighting? Sorry, there's another little fib, really should get your facts right Pysie, it doesn't do Carers any good to lie now does it?
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Pansy
18 August 2007 at 15:36 Carers united is a friendly board with no in fighting, said Pysie.
A friend of a friend of mine was a member on that board who was banned, without the curtesy of an expaination, for asking a question about their admin policy. My friend, another carer was also banned for asking why the first had been banned and the question not answered.
There is no 'in fighting' on that board as anyone who disagrees is banned.
The only 'in fighting' on UK Carers is caused by Carers United members who are also members there.
I, fortunately, am not a Carer, though I am well aware it could happen to me too.
The time, effort, commitment, love and sacrifice that goes to make up Carers has to be seen to be believed, so it is no wonder that Carers have little patience for anything else.
It is well past time the government, of which ever colour, recognised the imput that 6 million people make to this country and come up with something that recognises this and makes life easier, not harder as is usually the case.
Any group that makes even the smallest difference is to be congratulated if it makes someone in the position to do something sit up and take notice.
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A Knackered Carer
23 August 2007 at 15:00 Good grief! It's the Judean People's Front and the People's Front of Judea all over again! I've been up all night because my husband had a seizure. I've been a 24/7 carer for 18 years- since I was 28. I struggle to hold down an 8 hour job by working partly from home and taking my husband into work with me when respite falls through and despite earning £80 a week I'm only clearing £35 because I've lost Income Support and all the extras like Full Council Tax Relief. I'm also supporting another family member for five or six hours a day. I care because I love these people. I work because I haven't been brought up to live on benefits and even though deep down I know that caring is harder work and demands more self sacrifice than most paid jobs part of me feel worth more because I'm earning money even though rationally I know that this is rubbish because I am contributing to society by caring.
Caring can be frustrating and frightening ( I worry about what's going to happen to the people I love if anything happens to me and I get scared for them and me). And I'm far from perfect - a little voice says what about me sometimes. The only person I know who has less freedom than me is my husband.
So my advice to you scrappers out there would be count to ten, think of your blood pressure (someone out there is relying on you) and choose your battles wisely. I know where all that anger's coming from but it isn't just your war. Ever heard of divide and rule.
A Knackered Carer
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scipilot
07 December 2007 at 20:44 Like everything in the UK if you offer your service free the goverment will take advantage and pay peanuts in return.
Carers need to be recignised not only by praise from the likes of Gordon Brown but in payment for the millions they save the country.
Robin
Ableize disability ~ www.ableize.com
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Clive (UK Carers)
25 December 2007 at 00:10 Carers don't offer their services free Robin, they are onthe whole forced into their caring role. It's a nasty form of emotional blackmail
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Clive (UK Carers)
10 March 2008 at 09:54 Note. Tony Rhodes and an ex director of the national charity Carers UK are staging an attempt to drive UK Carers offline. The reason? The fact that this person was 'found out' to be an ex director, they have been harassing our web hosts at every turn.
So this is being done by someone that ISN'T a Carer and a Scottish Green Party member who was a director of Carers UK, these 2 have also been attempting to wreck an online petition that is trying to get a better level of income for Carers.
Another thing, Carers details are being passed between 2 'so-called' support group WITHOUT informing people when they sign up that this is going to happen. The only group that don't do this is UK Carers. Who WILL BE back online shortly
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wendy
10 March 2008 at 21:41 Not the only carers group Clive.
We are very careful about keeping members detail private and we do not disclose any information to any other group.
Wendy
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Clive (UK Carers)
20 March 2008 at 11:44 That remains to be proven as the members in all 3 groups are very similar.
I'd hesitate to use anywhere that does this, it's deceitful and possibly illegal
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Tony(NationalCarersForum)
24 March 2008 at 18:13 As usual Clive(ukcarers) does not tell the truth, only his vision, no one has tried to drive ukcarers off-line, that all happened because of his own warped view of how things should be done, if one does not go along with clive of ukcarers, his views, his beliefs then you become a personal target.
His boards were closed down because he broke the terms and conditions of his own hosts, threats, harrassment, bullying, cyber stalking, that is why his boards were closed down? Tell the truth clive?
As for your other accusation that you keep on trying to use, that i am no longer a care and therefore have no right to campaign or have an opinion on carers issues, thats rubbish clive and you know it, i was a carer for twenty odd years for my mother, i think in terms of years that makes me more experienced than you.
Myself and other more official people find it hard to fathom that someone who does not like my group should want to so desperately join it, usually may i say not as himself, but as someone who impersonates and takes the role of a woman, why would you do that clive(ukcarers)??
The reason our groups seem so similar is that we do not wish to be associated to you or anything you do, if you kept to yourself and did not make personal threats, bully people then people would have nothing to complain about.
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Paula
24 March 2008 at 19:32 Quote - Clive (UKC) - 'I'd hesitate to use anywhere that does this, it's deceitful and possibly illegal'
So registering under false names on our forum, removing articles despite a copyright rule and then putting them on your own messageboard - with the sole intention of posting vile, deflamatory remarks about other carers is acceptable is it Clive? Is that what the 'real voice of carers' is all about ?
Tell me did you waste your entire Easter holiday stalking us around the internet or did you spend some of it caring ?
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Clive (UK Carers)
27 March 2008 at 11:58 Umm, lets see, how many names has Tony Rhodes tried registering on places using different names? Perhaps if he remembered to use an email address that wasn't his main one next time. You yourself use more than one user name on the internet.
Copyright, sorry, try looking at the 'fair use rule' It allows material to be used on other places for use of commenting on if it affects you, please research matters before making inane or obtuse comments. As for stalking you? Sorry, I try to read as many sites as possible that mention the word 'Carer' (you know, the thing that Tony Rhodes is not) If you or he or any other Carer is there then I am going to make a comment, I know you hate anyone that has an opinion of their own (your attack on Pixie for expressing her own view was not really nice or called for) but unfortunately I have views and I'm not going to stop expressing them because you or someone who is not a Carer don't want to hear them. You will have to deal with it. If you are so concerned about copyright issues may I suggest you also complain about the use of whole newspaper articles that are posted on Carers UK's forum WITHOUT the newspapers permission?
Oh, passing peoples PERSONAL information around is possibly illegal, certainly unethical and the attempt to wriggle out of it was duly noted, how many sites have you passed email and user names around to? I know 3 for definite and I am taking due care to inform your hosting company, I have 3 people who signed up for the National Carers Forum (misnomer) who have emailed me worried that their details have been passed between NCF, Carers United/Watch and the site that has porn adverts on, not a very good thing for a Scottish Green Party member who has recently tried to get elected to have follow him about is it?
BTW, March's stats is showing over 50.000 hits to our message board alone, care to share the hits for the NCF? We are around 2 million hits in almost 3 years now, lesser cliquey closed places can't really compete, no matter what they claim. The police say hi and stop wasting their valuable time so you know.
My Easter was very nice thank you for asking, very productive. Yes I managed to get a smidgen of caring done, did Tony?
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barles
27 March 2008 at 17:41 i do think it is about time that this ongoing arguement between these two so called carers is brought to an end. they appear to use this for their own entertainment and not for the purpose it is intended.
people like this should either grow up or take their fights and pathetic comments elsewhere.sounds like a boxing ring would do the pair of them good.
i thought these colums were for the use of adults.
i am a carer and its a damned hard life but i do it because it is my choice to do it. i have no time for all this pettiness that these two people are displaying here. whenever do they get the time to actually care for anyone.makes you wonder.
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john
28 March 2008 at 19:17 I see the same old stupid arguments going on, carers are fed up with this silly man, he disrupts any decent discussion regarding carers.
I must also say that i did not think that trying to help people was all down to who has the bigger and better statistics?
Carers should be able to join whatever group they want without feeling they are taking sides, i have seen both these groups and both offer something for all carers, one is very poitical the other is not ,but there is space for both.
These two are all over the internet, to me one seems to be persecuting the other for what reason i dont know? You should both grow up.
I am also dismayed that clive(ukcarers) seems to have something against ex- carers, i know of a friend of mine who was a carer for his dear wife for fifteen years, now that she is dead is he not allowed to have an opinion or fight for better treatment of carers?
Anyone who wants to fight for the better treatment of carers and help fight the terrible way the government abuse carers is ok by me, carers can do with all the help and support they can get, stop being silly and shake hands and make up.
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Victor
28 March 2008 at 23:13 Half a pound of bacon and a pair of nice kippers, madam? Clive is barmy, innit?
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stressedcarer
29 March 2008 at 12:19 I'm totally amazed at Clive's remarks - I made the stupid mistake of joining ukcarers.net despite warnings they were a bit 'radical'.
I don't post often but when I did all was fine UNTIL I disagreed with the majority over their petty war with another forum - it was obvious that this other forum were a bit more savvy and had caught out Clive and his cronies - good for them I thought.
What shocked me was the savage way I was turned on for expressing my views - one member accused me of being an imposter (I don't believe in revealing too much personal information online until I get to know someone) and secondly Clive threatened to reveal my IP, email and said that with the right software he could find out where I lived and 'how would I like him to post that on other websites' - needless to say I've never been back.
I don't know anything about the other forums mentioned by Clive but what I do know is that this man does intimidate anyone who disagrees with him - I personally wouldn't touch ukcarers.net again with a 10 foot bargepole.
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Victor
29 March 2008 at 13:41 I made the mistake of posting on a different site using my real name, and was shocked to be subjected to personal abuse by Clive on his own site simply for expressing my views. The man is a cyber-bully, and his shabby little website has been taken out twice this year for gross breach of standards.
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Clive (UK Carers)
29 March 2008 at 23:36 Actually stressedcarer what I said was something along the lines of "how would your like it if I revealed your name and IP and sent it to other forums without your knowledge" Obviously you would be irate and have every right to be, as you have just proved. THIS IS WHAT THE NATIONAL CARERS FORUM IS DOING. I have never and WILL never reveal ANYONES identity, oh, except RK, he is the exception to the rule.
John, I have nothing against ex Carers, we have a few on our board, I DO have something again tan ex Carer that is merely using Carers to get some gratitude. No ex Carer speaks for me or any other Carer, Carers are strong enough to speak for themselves and should be allowed to do so.
Grow up? Hmm, signing people up to porn sites by illegally using someone else's email address and identity? Trying to wreck an online petition? Very grown up I must say.
Victor, I really do accuse anyone of this but you are a liar or trying to stir the pot. Please supply the proof of where this happened otherwise we can take this as another random FAM making false allegations.
Shake hands with someone that has the audacity to waste police time because someone thinks he is barking? Sorry I don't suffer fools, or even fools like this in the slightest.
The web site was "taken out" because of copyrigth rules, the same rules that the charity Carers UK flout daily, the difference being that now I know that the rules do NOT apply as it can be defended through a little known internet ruling. Bit dramatic there Victor.
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Victor
30 March 2008 at 00:56 I have noticed that your spelling starts to deteriorate later in the evening Elvis. Is there a rational explanation for this apart from the affluence of incahol?
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john
30 March 2008 at 10:50 You say that this person wasted police time just because people think he is barking? I have been on the national carers forum board and have seen your personal threats to this individual in your own words, you also asked others to attack this individual, this being the case i think the police time was well used.
I had respect for you at one time clive but no longer, you have attacked this person and his board, you have posted stuff on other boards about this man and his board purely because you seem to get a kick out of being spiteful.
I visit lots of carers boards and have seen this persons posts all over the place, i have not seen him attack you or your group unless he is trying to defend himself or his board, as others have said, i find it strange that you seem to have so much spare time on your hands as a carer that you spend it attacking this man and his group, you started out with a good intentions but you have deviated from this path and have picked on a innocent and good hearted person, again i have seen evidence that is clear for members on his site to see that you have not told the whole truth clive, he has done the right thing in going to the police for the things you have said you were going to do, i will no longer support you clive because you are in the wrong, the facts, and your own words show you are guilty clive, the threats you have made to this man and his board use the vilest and filthiest language, there is no place for this and i am glad this man has stood up to these frightening threats.
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stressedcarer
30 March 2008 at 11:59 Actually Clive your words were:-
'stressedcarer, with the right software I can find out what browser you are using, your IP, what operating system, probably the town you live in (if I really tried and put my mind to it) your email address and real name was probably used when you signed up, still think this is about scoring points? Anyone here want me to pass this information around to other websites? '
To me that IS a threat and that's why any decent carer (or ex-carer although your obvious disregard for ex carers should be enough to put them off joining your little clique) should avoid www.ukcarers.net like the plague.
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wildthing (ukcarers)
02 April 2008 at 23:50 We have one site who ban you for asking a question you have searched for the information you want on their site, just because they can say your asking for someone who is banned
then there is the site who has members who don't post then take avatar pictures from a site and make a montage from them (copyright theft)
finally there is the closed forum where you have to register to read the posts (does this person have something to hide?) Do they also select their members? as I know people who have signed up but received no activation link.
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Victor
03 April 2008 at 01:00 Aye, and then there is ukcarers, who rip all their content from other carers forums in order to pore over the contents and smear the folk who are writing their thoughts never knowing that their every word is being ripped to shreds, and their home addresses published, and their wives threatened, and their employers written to, and foul abusive language used against them. Ukcarers are basically parasites and bullies, isnt that right? And that's about the only way this sad little bunch of trolls will ever get noticed.
Well, they certainly have been noticed, and now they are being systematically exposed for what, and who, they are. When - if - they ever get to hold an election, I'm sure we will all get to hear about it - in the meantime I'll be supporting the only carers organisation in the UK that is run democratically by its 8,000 paid up members, Carers UK thankyou very much, not some tatty shambles of a message board that is either on or off depending on which day of the week it is, run by failed rock and roll bass players who fantasise with their cowboy outfits in sad little pubs.
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Admin
03 April 2008 at 10:37 Given the increasingly offensive comments being posted on this thread we've decided to turn the comments facility off. The New Statesman website is a place for serious debate, not for pursuing personal vendettas. Apologies to anyone who wanted to have a serious discussion about this very important topic.
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Editor, newstatesman.com
